On MTGO over the last few days there's been a sudden big push towards the GW aura-based decks. They seem very flash-in-the-pan...I saw my first one a few days ago playing Karn Tron and Oblivion Stone just destroyed it...but they've posted some very good results recently (2 4-0's in Tuesday's DE, 4th and 7th in Monday's PTQ) and are pretty inexpensive to build, so they're going to be FotM for a little while. Since they live off hexproof creatures and very often run 4 Leyline of Sanctity in the SB, they're a big problem for RDW decks.
The only good answer I could come up with was running Ensnaring Bridge to keep their aura-buffed creatures at bay and then Deathrite Shaman to get some non-targetted reach (the normal method of throwing creatures at a Leyline'd opponent doesn't work when they have an army of creatures that are much bigger than yours and probably have lifelink). It's not like the Shaman is a bad card anyway, and it's not like we don't already have a lot of removal options without Grim Lavamancer being available. This might not be a horrible time to run Shaman over Lavamancer, at least in the online meta.
It was pretty gratifying to think about this and then see smh run the following deck in a daily yesterday and go 4-0:
My intial thoughts are to drop either Ball Lightning all together, or to move Searing Blaze into the sideboard.
With a large number of threatening creatures, opponents usually dont save the removal to deal with Ball when he drops. But when they do, 3mana for nothing hurts.
Blaze is a dead card versus any low creature deck. Which is a lot of them now. But when they do have creatures, 2 bolts in 1 is a big swing play.
My intial thoughts are to drop either Ball Lightning all together, or to move Searing Blaze into the sideboard.
With a large number of threatening creatures, opponents usually dont save the removal to deal with Ball when he drops. But when they do, 3mana for nothing hurts.
Blaze is a dead card versus any low creature deck. Which is a lot of them now. But when they do have creatures, 2 bolts in 1 is a big swing play.
My intial thoughts are to drop either Ball Lightning all together, or to move Searing Blaze into the sideboard.
With a large number of threatening creatures, opponents usually dont save the removal to deal with Ball when he drops. But when they do, 3mana for nothing hurts.
Blaze is a dead card versus any low creature deck. Which is a lot of them now. But when they do have creatures, 2 bolts in 1 is a big swing play.
Or any other suggestions would be nice. Thanks.
Personally, I'd support either of these options. Ball Lightning just seems too slow. I'm kind of suspicious of anything with a CMC of 3, even if it's Flames of the Blood Hand. That is probably more an expression of personal preference though than an indictment of the card.
Searing Blaze has really been a dead card too many times for me lately. Even when it's not...well, a good example is a game a played a couple of days ago when I had to bait my WUR Tempo opponent into attacking me with his Geist of Saint Traft...so that an angel token could come into play and I would actually have a target to cast my Searing Blaze on for his last three points of life. Jumping through hoops for three damage, the way it is against quite a few decks these days, is kinda disheartening.
In your deck's case, Blaze is even worse because you have no chance of having a fetchland down. For you, it's basically a sorcery rather than an instant (the number of times you want to cast a 1-point Blaze on the other guy's turn is exceedingly low). I'd consider cutting it completely or putting some fetches in there.
EDIT: I didn't mention it, but Searing Blaze is of course still a very, very good card out of the sideboard, where I like to put mine. Again, that's rather dependent upon playing fetches.
My intial thoughts are to drop either Ball Lightning all together, or to move Searing Blaze into the sideboard.
With a large number of threatening creatures, opponents usually dont save the removal to deal with Ball when he drops. But when they do, 3mana for nothing hurts.
Blaze is a dead card versus any low creature deck. Which is a lot of them now. But when they do have creatures, 2 bolts in 1 is a big swing play.
Or any other suggestions would be nice. Thanks.
Personally, I'd support either of these options. Ball Lightning just seems too slow. I'm kind of suspicious of anything with a CMC of 3, even if it's Flames of the Blood Hand. That is probably more an expression of personal preference though than an indictment of the card.
Searing Blaze has really been a dead card too many times for me lately. Even when it's not...well, a good example is a game a played a couple of days ago when I had to bait my WUR Tempo opponent into attacking me with his Geist of Saint Traft...so that an angel token could come into play and I would actually have a target to cast my Searing Blaze on for his last three points of life. Jumping through hoops for three damage, the way it is against quite a few decks these days, is kinda disheartening.
In your deck's case, Blaze is even worse because you have no chance of having a fetchland down. For you, it's basically a sorcery rather than an instant (the number of times you want to cast a 1-point Blaze on the other guy's turn is exceedingly low). I'd consider cutting it completely or putting some fetches in there.
EDIT: I didn't mention it, but Searing Blaze is of course still a very, very good card out of the sideboard, where I like to put mine. Again, that's rather dependent upon playing fetches.
I mentioned a few days ago about being disturbed by the GW aura decks, and they're just not going away. Maybe they're going to be around for a while.
I did change my plan on what to do about it though. Winning a game by pinging with Deathrite Shaman every turn just doesn't seem likely...they'll be able to get rid of an Ensaring Bridge before that happens. Also it's just not good enough against a lot of other sorts of decks that have small creatures that Grim Lavamancer would eat for breakfast. So I'm experimenting with going the way a few posters have mentioned and doing RW. I'm not dropping black though, unlike most of those lists. Bump in the Night is just too good.
Some observations on playing a few games with this deck:
The deck is very aggressive, more so than a lot of RDW decks. The mana base virtually guarantees that you will have what mana you need when you need it, and the addition of Lightning Helix as an extra cheap burn spell makes a big difference. Because of that I am concerned about Path to Exile and wonder if this is a rare deck where Searing Blaze might be better in the main instead of the side.
That being said, the mana hurts. I have a problem against aggro decks because I do so much of the work for them, and while I initially thought that matchup would be pretty good (I have lifegain!) the fact is that Lightning Helix isn't normally enough to make up for it. I can slow it down by either delaying that Bump in the Night until turn 2 or cutting the Marsh Flats for things like Dragonskull Summit and Clifftop Retreat, but I'm not sure where the best balance between life and speed is going to be. (Using those cards would also mean the possibility of dropping one each of the shocklands, which are present in duplicates because of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge.)
Ash Zealot is a surprisingly relevant card. I tried it out because of the Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard, where Vexing Devil was almost useless and really needed to be sided out. The first strike is very often worth two extra points of damage, like when they won't block it with the Snapcaster Mage that they might block a Goblin Guide with. Two extra points of damage is a very big thing in this deck, since you're setting a pretty fast clock both against the opponent and against yourself.
Ensnaring Bridge is very good in game 2. It's not nearly so good in game 3. It works great against both Living End and GW Auras, since they tend to sideboard out things like Disenchant and Beast Within since they're not really useful against most RDW. When they see the Ensnaring Bridge, those cards are back in for game 3. (Of course, Living End isn't much of a problem for this deck in the first place, but Auras is.)
The sideboard may or may not need work. There are soooo many good white sideboard cards that you have available, but many of them just don't work with the aggressive theme of the deck. I could see Stony Silence. I could see Suppression Field. I would wonder if it wouldn't be best just to use a card that would kill them faster instead.
I mentioned a few days ago about being disturbed by the GW aura decks, and they're just not going away. Maybe they're going to be around for a while.
I did change my plan on what to do about it though. Winning a game by pinging with Deathrite Shaman every turn just doesn't seem likely...they'll be able to get rid of an Ensaring Bridge before that happens. Also it's just not good enough against a lot of other sorts of decks that have small creatures that Grim Lavamancer would eat for breakfast. So I'm experimenting with going the way a few posters have mentioned and doing RW. I'm not dropping black though, unlike most of those lists. Bump in the Night is just too good.
Some observations on playing a few games with this deck:
The deck is very aggressive, more so than a lot of RDW decks. The mana base virtually guarantees that you will have what mana you need when you need it, and the addition of Lightning Helix as an extra cheap burn spell makes a big difference. Because of that I am concerned about Path to Exile and wonder if this is a rare deck where Searing Blaze might be better in the main instead of the side.
That being said, the mana hurts. I have a problem against aggro decks because I do so much of the work for them, and while I initially thought that matchup would be pretty good (I have lifegain!) the fact is that Lightning Helix isn't normally enough to make up for it. I can slow it down by either delaying that Bump in the Night until turn 2 or cutting the Marsh Flats for things like Dragonskull Summit and Clifftop Retreat, but I'm not sure where the best balance between life and speed is going to be. (Using those cards would also mean the possibility of dropping one each of the shocklands, which are present in duplicates because of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge.)
Ash Zealot is a surprisingly relevant card. I tried it out because of the Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard, where Vexing Devil was almost useless and really needed to be sided out. The first strike is very often worth two extra points of damage, like when they won't block it with the Snapcaster Mage that they might block a Goblin Guide with. Two extra points of damage is a very big thing in this deck, since you're setting a pretty fast clock both against the opponent and against yourself.
Ensnaring Bridge is very good in game 2. It's not nearly so good in game 3. It works great against both Living End and GW Auras, since they tend to sideboard out things like Disenchant and Beast Within since they're not really useful against most RDW. When they see the Ensnaring Bridge, those cards are back in for game 3. (Of course, Living End isn't much of a problem for this deck in the first place, but Auras is.)
The sideboard may or may not need work. There are soooo many good white sideboard cards that you have available, but many of them just don't work with the aggressive theme of the deck. I could see Stony Silence. I could see Suppression Field. I would wonder if it wouldn't be best just to use a card that would kill them faster instead.
The GW aura doesnt seem like that much of a problem imo. Their removal package is light and their creature base is small. Meaning if you get more dudes down they cant block well. They have nothing protecting themselves against burn, which we have a lot of. Their clock is not intimidating at all by any standards. Their lifesteal doesn't kick in for a while and theres time to save a (soontobe)skullcrack to stop it. Not to mention you sideboard in any board wipes(which you should have somewhere in SB), and if you draw it in your opening hand you basicaly win the game. Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times.
Also seems odd that youre worried about them and then make a comment about how strong blaze in your MB, seems counterintuitive, but maybe thats just me.
The GW aura doesnt seem like that much of a problem imo. Their removal package is light and their creature base is small. Meaning if you get more dudes down they cant block well. They have nothing protecting themselves against burn, which we have a lot of. Their clock is not intimidating at all by any standards. Their lifesteal doesn't kick in for a while and theres time to save a (soontobe)skullcrack to stop it. Not to mention you sideboard in any board wipes(which you should have somewhere in SB), and if you draw it in your opening hand you basicaly win the game. Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times.
Also seems odd that youre worried about them and then make a comment about how strong blaze in your MB, seems counterintuitive, but maybe thats just me.
The GW aura doesnt seem like that much of a problem imo. Their removal package is light and their creature base is small. Meaning if you get more dudes down they cant block well. They have nothing protecting themselves against burn, which we have a lot of. Their clock is not intimidating at all by any standards. Their lifesteal doesn't kick in for a while and theres time to save a (soontobe)skullcrack to stop it. Not to mention you sideboard in any board wipes(which you should have somewhere in SB), and if you draw it in your opening hand you basicaly win the game. Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times.
Also seems odd that youre worried about them and then make a comment about how strong blaze in your MB, seems counterintuitive, but maybe thats just me.
With all due respect, it sounds like you're talking about entirely different decks. We can't burn out their creatures before the aura comes down...they're hexproof. We can't kill them with sweepers because we don't run any, and even if we did all it would do would be to remove their totem armor. They start gaining 5+ life per turn by turn 3, not 'a while'.
Skullcrack doesn't exist for three more weeks and therefore does nothing to help us when the deck is popular now. When it is available, it will give us a 1-turn reprieve at the cost of us having to hold up mana for it.
All that leaves is burn, which means we're racing with half our deck against their 5 life per turn. Until the second and third games, when Leyline of Sanctity means we can't do that either. Not only that, we can't use our normal response to Leyline, which is to kill them with creatures, because we have a freaking huge lifelinker that we can't kill standing in the way.
Let me show you a typical first three turns for a GW Auras deck. And I mean very typical.
Turn 1: Play 1/1 hexproof creature.
Turn 2: Make creature 2/2 with hexproof and either first strike or protection from creatures.
Turn 3: Make creature 5/5 with hexproof, first strike, vigilance, lifelink, and maybe protection from creatures.
By turn 2, our ground assault is basically over. By turn 3, we can't win. This doesn't happen every game, but it happens disturbingly often.
For the sideboarded games, we bring in Rain of Gore (better than Skullcrack in that it exists now) or Ensnaring Bridge or something to keep their big lifelinkers at bay. If we're lucky they're not running Nature's Claim, but chances are that they will be. They bring in Leyline of Sanctity to eliminate any possibility of us dealing any damage at all, and we do not run anything to get rid of it.
Hence the reason why I'm playing with white. Lightning Helix is a good card anyway, as is Path to Exile, and for that reason I don't believe I'm compromising my ability to win by worrying about a single archetype that makes up a small percentage of the meta. But the reason to play white against this Auras is Disenchant.
As for the commentary on Searing Blaze, again, I'm at a loss to understand what you're saying. I said that I prefer not to run it in the main deck but that it's a very strong sideboard card. Obviously, it's not very strong against everything, or else it would not be a sideboard card.
The GW aura doesnt seem like that much of a problem imo. Their removal package is light and their creature base is small. Meaning if you get more dudes down they cant block well. They have nothing protecting themselves against burn, which we have a lot of. Their clock is not intimidating at all by any standards. Their lifesteal doesn't kick in for a while and theres time to save a (soontobe)skullcrack to stop it. Not to mention you sideboard in any board wipes(which you should have somewhere in SB), and if you draw it in your opening hand you basicaly win the game. Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times.
Also seems odd that youre worried about them and then make a comment about how strong blaze in your MB, seems counterintuitive, but maybe thats just me.
With all due respect, it sounds like you're talking about entirely different decks. We can't burn out their creatures before the aura comes down...they're hexproof. We can't kill them with sweepers because we don't run any, and even if we did all it would do would be to remove their totem armor. They start gaining 5+ life per turn by turn 3, not 'a while'.
Skullcrack doesn't exist for three more weeks and therefore does nothing to help us when the deck is popular now. When it is available, it will give us a 1-turn reprieve at the cost of us having to hold up mana for it.
All that leaves is burn, which means we're racing with half our deck against their 5 life per turn. Until the second and third games, when Leyline of Sanctity means we can't do that either. Not only that, we can't use our normal response to Leyline, which is to kill them with creatures, because we have a freaking huge lifelinker that we can't kill standing in the way.
Let me show you a typical first three turns for a GW Auras deck. And I mean very typical.
Turn 1: Play 1/1 hexproof creature.
Turn 2: Make creature 2/2 with hexproof and either first strike or protection from creatures.
Turn 3: Make creature 5/5 with hexproof, first strike, vigilance, lifelink, and maybe protection from creatures.
By turn 2, our ground assault is basically over. By turn 3, we can't win. This doesn't happen every game, but it happens disturbingly often.
For the sideboarded games, we bring in Rain of Gore (better than Skullcrack in that it exists now) or Ensnaring Bridge or something to keep their big lifelinkers at bay. If we're lucky they're not running Nature's Claim, but chances are that they will be. They bring in Leyline of Sanctity to eliminate any possibility of us dealing any damage at all, and we do not run anything to get rid of it.
Hence the reason why I'm playing with white. Lightning Helix is a good card anyway, as is Path to Exile, and for that reason I don't believe I'm compromising my ability to win by worrying about a single archetype that makes up a small percentage of the meta. But the reason to play white against this Auras is Disenchant.
As for the commentary on Searing Blaze, again, I'm at a loss to understand what you're saying. I said that I prefer not to run it in the main deck but that it's a very strong sideboard card. Obviously, it's not very strong against everything, or else it would not be a sideboard card.
With all due respect, it sounds like you're talking about entirely different decks. We can't burn out their creatures before the aura comes down...they're hexproof. We can't kill them with sweepers because we don't run any, and even if we did all it would do would be to remove their totem armor. They start gaining 5+ life per turn by turn 3, not 'a while'.
You burn "them" not their creatures, but them. They have no counters or prevention and cant afford to mulligan to a leyline because of how reliant they are on a bogle in their starting hand.(theres a reason they run it in the first place in the hopes of randoming to it, because they know its a terrible matchup for them). Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card.
I said specifically to bring in the sweepers that you "should" be running, because if you arent theres a major flaw in your sideboard. Because you seem to be the only one who isnt. And since low damage sweepers are cheap, you kill them before they get their totem armor since, as you said, their turn 1 is almost always a defenceless bogle.
And turn 3 is "a while" compared to the real lifegain problem that is soul sisters. By turn 3 you should have a bloodhand or soon to be skullcrack. You should have gore or leyline. Assuming you cant take out their bogle, you should have one of these by now.
Dont forget that most decks splash for black. Which has this nice little tool known as "sacrifice." And its really useful for opponents who put all their eggs in a single creature. I could list any of the number of cards people have run in this deck to deal with all in local metas, but im sure you can look them up for yourself.
And lets just assume everything goes their way, and they get out their 5/5 lifelink. They look at your board and see a field of threats. They can either sit back and wait to be burned out. OR they can attack into you. You dont block, take the 5, and then swing back for much more. Between the damage youve already done and the burn you have to finish them off, you can race them at this point.
You seem to use the word "we" a lot, when n fact youre doing everything very differently from most people.
With all due respect, it sounds like you're talking about entirely different decks. We can't burn out their creatures before the aura comes down...they're hexproof. We can't kill them with sweepers because we don't run any, and even if we did all it would do would be to remove their totem armor. They start gaining 5+ life per turn by turn 3, not 'a while'.
You burn "them" not their creatures, but them. They have no counters or prevention and cant afford to mulligan to a leyline because of how reliant they are on a bogle in their starting hand.(theres a reason they run it in the first place in the hopes of randoming to it, because they know its a terrible matchup for them). Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card.
I said specifically to bring in the sweepers that you "should" be running, because if you arent theres a major flaw in your sideboard. Because you seem to be the only one who isnt. And since low damage sweepers are cheap, you kill them before they get their totem armor since, as you said, their turn 1 is almost always a defenceless bogle.
And turn 3 is "a while" compared to the real lifegain problem that is soul sisters. By turn 3 you should have a bloodhand or soon to be skullcrack. You should have gore or leyline. Assuming you cant take out their bogle, you should have one of these by now.
Dont forget that most decks splash for black. Which has this nice little tool known as "sacrifice." And its really useful for opponents who put all their eggs in a single creature. I could list any of the number of cards people have run in this deck to deal with all in local metas, but im sure you can look them up for yourself.
And lets just assume everything goes their way, and they get out their 5/5 lifelink. They look at your board and see a field of threats. They can either sit back and wait to be burned out. OR they can attack into you. You dont block, take the 5, and then swing back for much more. Between the damage youve already done and the burn you have to finish them off, you can race them at this point.
You seem to use the word "we" a lot, when n fact youre doing everything very differently from most people.
I didn't agree with your post. I posted to indicate that. I was not disrespectful when I did so. I would appreciate the same from you next time. Thank you.
Since it obviously caused some confusion, I will refrain from using the pronoun "we" in the rest of this post.
Your quote was "Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times." I'm sure you can see why I might have thought you were talking about burning out their creatures.
Incidentally, most Aura decks run either 12 or 16 creatures, though creatures 13-16 seem to generally be mana dorks. That's not so few, is it? You talk as though he'll be trying to beat you with one creature, but in reality, the deck doesn't run very many fewer than most RDW lists do (12-creature RDW is not uncommon).
I went and looked for sweepers at the resource that is pretty much the most current...the MTGO lists. While it isn't valid for anyone's local meta, it's not a bad indication of the state of the game. I found 23 currently listed RDW decks. 7 of them use Volcanic Fallout, which will work if you cast it on turn 3 on the play and the other guy didn't draw one of his 10-12 totem armor auras. (Good luck with that.) One more uses Sulfur Elemental, which I'm sure you can see doesn't work against Auras. All sweepers are in the sideboard. That means out of 23 decks, 16 of them have no sweepers post-board, and 23 of them have no sweepers pre-board. While I can't make any claims that any of these lists are "right", they were all at least good enough to either go 3-1 or better in a DE, top-8 a PE, or top-32 a PTQ. I congratulate all of them on their ability to play well enough to overcome the major flaws in their deck designs.
21 of those lists splash black. Zero of them have any sacrifice cards. Know why? Because it's a bad idea. It is decidedly not a "nice little tool." The opponent having two creatures out is enough to negate it. When's the last time you saw a Cruel Edict in anyone's Modern 75?
I shouldn't have to explain this, but his 5/5 has vigilance. Sure, you can swing past it, but you're losing a creature for it. Eventually you will have none, particularly since most RDW lists do not run very many more creatures than most Auras lists. Game 1 this is not an option (it will have lifelink and you will not be preventing lifegain). Game 2 and 3, it's an option if you get a Leyline of Punishment (the one idea you present that I can get behind). That at least lets you race, unless of course he a) removes it, or b) finds his own Leyline.
My favorite part of your post was undoubtedly "Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card." The entire point of my post and decklist this morning was splashing white for enchantment removal. It's poor form to suggest that I should read more closely if you're not going to do it either.
I didn't agree with your post. I posted to indicate that. I was not disrespectful when I did so. I would appreciate the same from you next time. Thank you.
Since it obviously caused some confusion, I will refrain from using the pronoun "we" in the rest of this post.
Your quote was "Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times." I'm sure you can see why I might have thought you were talking about burning out their creatures.
Incidentally, most Aura decks run either 12 or 16 creatures, though creatures 13-16 seem to generally be mana dorks. That's not so few, is it? You talk as though he'll be trying to beat you with one creature, but in reality, the deck doesn't run very many fewer than most RDW lists do (12-creature RDW is not uncommon).
I went and looked for sweepers at the resource that is pretty much the most current...the MTGO lists. While it isn't valid for anyone's local meta, it's not a bad indication of the state of the game. I found 23 currently listed RDW decks. 7 of them use Volcanic Fallout, which will work if you cast it on turn 3 on the play and the other guy didn't draw one of his 10-12 totem armor auras. (Good luck with that.) One more uses Sulfur Elemental, which I'm sure you can see doesn't work against Auras. All sweepers are in the sideboard. That means out of 23 decks, 16 of them have no sweepers post-board, and 23 of them have no sweepers pre-board. While I can't make any claims that any of these lists are "right", they were all at least good enough to either go 3-1 or better in a DE, top-8 a PE, or top-32 a PTQ. I congratulate all of them on their ability to play well enough to overcome the major flaws in their deck designs.
21 of those lists splash black. Zero of them have any sacrifice cards. Know why? Because it's a bad idea. It is decidedly not a "nice little tool." The opponent having two creatures out is enough to negate it. When's the last time you saw a Cruel Edict in anyone's Modern 75?
I shouldn't have to explain this, but his 5/5 has vigilance. Sure, you can swing past it, but you're losing a creature for it. Eventually you will have none, particularly since most RDW lists do not run very many more creatures than most Auras lists. Game 1 this is not an option (it will have lifelink and you will not be preventing lifegain). Game 2 and 3, it's an option if you get a Leyline of Punishment (the one idea you present that I can get behind). That at least lets you race, unless of course he a) removes it, or b) finds his own Leyline.
My favorite part of your post was undoubtedly "Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card." The entire point of my post and decklist this morning was splashing white for enchantment removal. It's poor form to suggest that I should read more closely if you're not going to do it either.
@Barandis: It seems odd that you request help with options we can employ to combat a specific deck. And then when a rather large number of legitimate ones are brought up, your only response is "these decks arent running it." Generally speaking metagaming involves making conscious choices that are different from historical norms. Because if you just wanted to remake an old list, you wouldnt be asking for help with what you could add.
Bogle is a relatively new deck. And as such looking at previous lists, youre unlikely to see tech against it. Many decks have sweepers, and a single tremor or pyroclasm in your opening hand puts a swift end to their deck. And sacrfice is always a meta specific option if you see a lot of this deck.
As far as saying nobody uses sacrifice in Modern because its bad, I find that amusing. Because Jund, the most popular deck in the format, uses Liliana. And Sacrifice is the most used ability on her. Gatekeeper is also a staple in vamps, and while a low tier deck its still considered a power card in it. A lot of decks rarely have multiple creatures out. Bogle especially so with its low count to begin with. There are several with as low as 8.
You should be more respectful to people when asking for help. Opening with a "with all due respect" followed by telling them they dont know what they are talking about, and then having the rest of your post laced with sarcastic sentences comes off as hostility. And more often than not incites a hostile response.
@Barandis: It seems odd that you request help with options we can employ to combat a specific deck. And then when a rather large number of legitimate ones are brought up, your only response is "these decks arent running it." Generally speaking metagaming involves making conscious choices that are different from historical norms. Because if you just wanted to remake an old list, you wouldnt be asking for help with what you could add.
Bogle is a relatively new deck. And as such looking at previous lists, youre unlikely to see tech against it. Many decks have sweepers, and a single tremor or pyroclasm in your opening hand puts a swift end to their deck. And sacrfice is always a meta specific option if you see a lot of this deck.
As far as saying nobody uses sacrifice in Modern because its bad, I find that amusing. Because Jund, the most popular deck in the format, uses Liliana. And Sacrifice is the most used ability on her. Gatekeeper is also a staple in vamps, and while a low tier deck its still considered a power card in it. A lot of decks rarely have multiple creatures out. Bogle especially so with its low count to begin with. There are several with as low as 8.
You should be more respectful to people when asking for help. Opening with a "with all due respect" followed by telling them they dont know what they are talking about, and then having the rest of your post laced with sarcastic sentences comes off as hostility. And more often than not incites a hostile response.
I playtested with Dark Confidant instead of spark elemental, and Bob was just not good enough 60% of the time it would eat removal, and it had no immediate threat. So I added spark elemental back to my list. I notice allot of the time I find creatures in my hand I can't use, I might take out a set a creatures for the new burn spell in GTC the do 3 dmg to cmc no life gain one. Let me know what you guys think, about my deck and any suggestions are welcomed.
I playtested with Dark Confidant instead of spark elemental, and Bob was just not good enough 60% of the time it would eat removal, and it had no immediate threat. So I added spark elemental back to my list. I notice allot of the time I find creatures in my hand I can't use, I might take out a set a creatures for the new burn spell in GTC the do 3 dmg to cmc no life gain one. Let me know what you guys think, about my deck and any suggestions are welcomed.
@Twinner: while spark elemental is one of my favorite creatures of all time, i dont think its strong enough for modern. Its a possible 3 damage that can be removed, or split between creatures at opponents discretion(giving them choice is usually bad), or completely negated lategame or by first striike. Id suggest swapping him for a keldonmarauders or another burn spell(shard volley? Magma jet?)
My other concerns are with your sideboard. I dont like relic here. It costs a lot of mana. You need to get your hate out early for it to matter, and early you need every mana to provide pressure. Consider Tormod's? Molten rain seems really out of place as well, and possibly blood moon. They dont bring as many free wins as you may expect, they cost a lot, and they dont fit with the deck. And those slots should have things to come in for blaze against creatureless decks. Or have some tech against life gain which is very prominent.
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The only good answer I could come up with was running Ensnaring Bridge to keep their aura-buffed creatures at bay and then Deathrite Shaman to get some non-targetted reach (the normal method of throwing creatures at a Leyline'd opponent doesn't work when they have an army of creatures that are much bigger than yours and probably have lifelink). It's not like the Shaman is a bad card anyway, and it's not like we don't already have a lot of removal options without Grim Lavamancer being available. This might not be a horrible time to run Shaman over Lavamancer, at least in the online meta.
It was pretty gratifying to think about this and then see smh run the following deck in a daily yesterday and go 4-0:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Stomping Ground
Creatures (15)
3 Anathemancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Magma Jet
2 Rakdos Charm
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
2 Shard Volley
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Mark of Mutiny
3 Molten Rain
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Sudden Shock
Also, I really do like Magma Jet over Flames of the Blood Hand, which seems to be the normal go-to in that slot lately.
Might be worth thinking about, at least for the next couple weeks.
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4x Vexing Devil
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Ball Lightning
4x Searing Blaze
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Shard Volley
My intial thoughts are to drop either Ball Lightning all together, or to move Searing Blaze into the sideboard.
With a large number of threatening creatures, opponents usually dont save the removal to deal with Ball when he drops. But when they do, 3mana for nothing hurts.
Blaze is a dead card versus any low creature deck. Which is a lot of them now. But when they do have creatures, 2 bolts in 1 is a big swing play.
Or any other suggestions would be nice. Thanks.
4x Vexing Devil
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Ball Lightning
4x Searing Blaze
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Shard Volley
My intial thoughts are to drop either Ball Lightning all together, or to move Searing Blaze into the sideboard.
With a large number of threatening creatures, opponents usually dont save the removal to deal with Ball when he drops. But when they do, 3mana for nothing hurts.
Blaze is a dead card versus any low creature deck. Which is a lot of them now. But when they do have creatures, 2 bolts in 1 is a big swing play.
Or any other suggestions would be nice. Thanks.
Personally, I'd support either of these options. Ball Lightning just seems too slow. I'm kind of suspicious of anything with a CMC of 3, even if it's Flames of the Blood Hand. That is probably more an expression of personal preference though than an indictment of the card.
Searing Blaze has really been a dead card too many times for me lately. Even when it's not...well, a good example is a game a played a couple of days ago when I had to bait my WUR Tempo opponent into attacking me with his Geist of Saint Traft...so that an angel token could come into play and I would actually have a target to cast my Searing Blaze on for his last three points of life. Jumping through hoops for three damage, the way it is against quite a few decks these days, is kinda disheartening.
In your deck's case, Blaze is even worse because you have no chance of having a fetchland down. For you, it's basically a sorcery rather than an instant (the number of times you want to cast a 1-point Blaze on the other guy's turn is exceedingly low). I'd consider cutting it completely or putting some fetches in there.
EDIT: I didn't mention it, but Searing Blaze is of course still a very, very good card out of the sideboard, where I like to put mine. Again, that's rather dependent upon playing fetches.
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Personally, I'd support either of these options. Ball Lightning just seems too slow. I'm kind of suspicious of anything with a CMC of 3, even if it's Flames of the Blood Hand. That is probably more an expression of personal preference though than an indictment of the card.
Searing Blaze has really been a dead card too many times for me lately. Even when it's not...well, a good example is a game a played a couple of days ago when I had to bait my WUR Tempo opponent into attacking me with his Geist of Saint Traft...so that an angel token could come into play and I would actually have a target to cast my Searing Blaze on for his last three points of life. Jumping through hoops for three damage, the way it is against quite a few decks these days, is kinda disheartening.
In your deck's case, Blaze is even worse because you have no chance of having a fetchland down. For you, it's basically a sorcery rather than an instant (the number of times you want to cast a 1-point Blaze on the other guy's turn is exceedingly low). I'd consider cutting it completely or putting some fetches in there.
EDIT: I didn't mention it, but Searing Blaze is of course still a very, very good card out of the sideboard, where I like to put mine. Again, that's rather dependent upon playing fetches.
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I did change my plan on what to do about it though. Winning a game by pinging with Deathrite Shaman every turn just doesn't seem likely...they'll be able to get rid of an Ensaring Bridge before that happens. Also it's just not good enough against a lot of other sorts of decks that have small creatures that Grim Lavamancer would eat for breakfast. So I'm experimenting with going the way a few posters have mentioned and doing RW. I'm not dropping black though, unlike most of those lists. Bump in the Night is just too good.
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
Creatures (12)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Bump in the Night
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Rift Bolt
4 Disenchant
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rakdos Charm
4 Searing Blaze
Some observations on playing a few games with this deck:
The deck is very aggressive, more so than a lot of RDW decks. The mana base virtually guarantees that you will have what mana you need when you need it, and the addition of Lightning Helix as an extra cheap burn spell makes a big difference. Because of that I am concerned about Path to Exile and wonder if this is a rare deck where Searing Blaze might be better in the main instead of the side.
That being said, the mana hurts. I have a problem against aggro decks because I do so much of the work for them, and while I initially thought that matchup would be pretty good (I have lifegain!) the fact is that Lightning Helix isn't normally enough to make up for it. I can slow it down by either delaying that Bump in the Night until turn 2 or cutting the Marsh Flats for things like Dragonskull Summit and Clifftop Retreat, but I'm not sure where the best balance between life and speed is going to be. (Using those cards would also mean the possibility of dropping one each of the shocklands, which are present in duplicates because of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge.)
Ash Zealot is a surprisingly relevant card. I tried it out because of the Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard, where Vexing Devil was almost useless and really needed to be sided out. The first strike is very often worth two extra points of damage, like when they won't block it with the Snapcaster Mage that they might block a Goblin Guide with. Two extra points of damage is a very big thing in this deck, since you're setting a pretty fast clock both against the opponent and against yourself.
Ensnaring Bridge is very good in game 2. It's not nearly so good in game 3. It works great against both Living End and GW Auras, since they tend to sideboard out things like Disenchant and Beast Within since they're not really useful against most RDW. When they see the Ensnaring Bridge, those cards are back in for game 3. (Of course, Living End isn't much of a problem for this deck in the first place, but Auras is.)
The sideboard may or may not need work. There are soooo many good white sideboard cards that you have available, but many of them just don't work with the aggressive theme of the deck. I could see Stony Silence. I could see Suppression Field. I would wonder if it wouldn't be best just to use a card that would kill them faster instead.
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I did change my plan on what to do about it though. Winning a game by pinging with Deathrite Shaman every turn just doesn't seem likely...they'll be able to get rid of an Ensaring Bridge before that happens. Also it's just not good enough against a lot of other sorts of decks that have small creatures that Grim Lavamancer would eat for breakfast. So I'm experimenting with going the way a few posters have mentioned and doing RW. I'm not dropping black though, unlike most of those lists. Bump in the Night is just too good.
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
Creatures (12)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Bump in the Night
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Rift Bolt
4 Disenchant
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rakdos Charm
4 Searing Blaze
Some observations on playing a few games with this deck:
The deck is very aggressive, more so than a lot of RDW decks. The mana base virtually guarantees that you will have what mana you need when you need it, and the addition of Lightning Helix as an extra cheap burn spell makes a big difference. Because of that I am concerned about Path to Exile and wonder if this is a rare deck where Searing Blaze might be better in the main instead of the side.
That being said, the mana hurts. I have a problem against aggro decks because I do so much of the work for them, and while I initially thought that matchup would be pretty good (I have lifegain!) the fact is that Lightning Helix isn't normally enough to make up for it. I can slow it down by either delaying that Bump in the Night until turn 2 or cutting the Marsh Flats for things like Dragonskull Summit and Clifftop Retreat, but I'm not sure where the best balance between life and speed is going to be. (Using those cards would also mean the possibility of dropping one each of the shocklands, which are present in duplicates because of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge.)
Ash Zealot is a surprisingly relevant card. I tried it out because of the Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard, where Vexing Devil was almost useless and really needed to be sided out. The first strike is very often worth two extra points of damage, like when they won't block it with the Snapcaster Mage that they might block a Goblin Guide with. Two extra points of damage is a very big thing in this deck, since you're setting a pretty fast clock both against the opponent and against yourself.
Ensnaring Bridge is very good in game 2. It's not nearly so good in game 3. It works great against both Living End and GW Auras, since they tend to sideboard out things like Disenchant and Beast Within since they're not really useful against most RDW. When they see the Ensnaring Bridge, those cards are back in for game 3. (Of course, Living End isn't much of a problem for this deck in the first place, but Auras is.)
The sideboard may or may not need work. There are soooo many good white sideboard cards that you have available, but many of them just don't work with the aggressive theme of the deck. I could see Stony Silence. I could see Suppression Field. I would wonder if it wouldn't be best just to use a card that would kill them faster instead.
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Also seems odd that youre worried about them and then make a comment about how strong blaze in your MB, seems counterintuitive, but maybe thats just me.
Also seems odd that youre worried about them and then make a comment about how strong blaze in your MB, seems counterintuitive, but maybe thats just me.
With all due respect, it sounds like you're talking about entirely different decks. We can't burn out their creatures before the aura comes down...they're hexproof. We can't kill them with sweepers because we don't run any, and even if we did all it would do would be to remove their totem armor. They start gaining 5+ life per turn by turn 3, not 'a while'.
Skullcrack doesn't exist for three more weeks and therefore does nothing to help us when the deck is popular now. When it is available, it will give us a 1-turn reprieve at the cost of us having to hold up mana for it.
All that leaves is burn, which means we're racing with half our deck against their 5 life per turn. Until the second and third games, when Leyline of Sanctity means we can't do that either. Not only that, we can't use our normal response to Leyline, which is to kill them with creatures, because we have a freaking huge lifelinker that we can't kill standing in the way.
Let me show you a typical first three turns for a GW Auras deck. And I mean very typical.
For the sideboarded games, we bring in Rain of Gore (better than Skullcrack in that it exists now) or Ensnaring Bridge or something to keep their big lifelinkers at bay. If we're lucky they're not running Nature's Claim, but chances are that they will be. They bring in Leyline of Sanctity to eliminate any possibility of us dealing any damage at all, and we do not run anything to get rid of it.
Hence the reason why I'm playing with white. Lightning Helix is a good card anyway, as is Path to Exile, and for that reason I don't believe I'm compromising my ability to win by worrying about a single archetype that makes up a small percentage of the meta. But the reason to play white against this Auras is Disenchant.
As for the commentary on Searing Blaze, again, I'm at a loss to understand what you're saying. I said that I prefer not to run it in the main deck but that it's a very strong sideboard card. Obviously, it's not very strong against everything, or else it would not be a sideboard card.
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BW Tokens WB
With all due respect, it sounds like you're talking about entirely different decks. We can't burn out their creatures before the aura comes down...they're hexproof. We can't kill them with sweepers because we don't run any, and even if we did all it would do would be to remove their totem armor. They start gaining 5+ life per turn by turn 3, not 'a while'.
Skullcrack doesn't exist for three more weeks and therefore does nothing to help us when the deck is popular now. When it is available, it will give us a 1-turn reprieve at the cost of us having to hold up mana for it.
All that leaves is burn, which means we're racing with half our deck against their 5 life per turn. Until the second and third games, when Leyline of Sanctity means we can't do that either. Not only that, we can't use our normal response to Leyline, which is to kill them with creatures, because we have a freaking huge lifelinker that we can't kill standing in the way.
Let me show you a typical first three turns for a GW Auras deck. And I mean very typical.
For the sideboarded games, we bring in Rain of Gore (better than Skullcrack in that it exists now) or Ensnaring Bridge or something to keep their big lifelinkers at bay. If we're lucky they're not running Nature's Claim, but chances are that they will be. They bring in Leyline of Sanctity to eliminate any possibility of us dealing any damage at all, and we do not run anything to get rid of it.
Hence the reason why I'm playing with white. Lightning Helix is a good card anyway, as is Path to Exile, and for that reason I don't believe I'm compromising my ability to win by worrying about a single archetype that makes up a small percentage of the meta. But the reason to play white against this Auras is Disenchant.
As for the commentary on Searing Blaze, again, I'm at a loss to understand what you're saying. I said that I prefer not to run it in the main deck but that it's a very strong sideboard card. Obviously, it's not very strong against everything, or else it would not be a sideboard card.
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BW Tokens WB
You burn "them" not their creatures, but them. They have no counters or prevention and cant afford to mulligan to a leyline because of how reliant they are on a bogle in their starting hand.(theres a reason they run it in the first place in the hopes of randoming to it, because they know its a terrible matchup for them). Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card.
I said specifically to bring in the sweepers that you "should" be running, because if you arent theres a major flaw in your sideboard. Because you seem to be the only one who isnt. And since low damage sweepers are cheap, you kill them before they get their totem armor since, as you said, their turn 1 is almost always a defenceless bogle.
And turn 3 is "a while" compared to the real lifegain problem that is soul sisters. By turn 3 you should have a bloodhand or soon to be skullcrack. You should have gore or leyline. Assuming you cant take out their bogle, you should have one of these by now.
Dont forget that most decks splash for black. Which has this nice little tool known as "sacrifice." And its really useful for opponents who put all their eggs in a single creature. I could list any of the number of cards people have run in this deck to deal with all in local metas, but im sure you can look them up for yourself.
And lets just assume everything goes their way, and they get out their 5/5 lifelink. They look at your board and see a field of threats. They can either sit back and wait to be burned out. OR they can attack into you. You dont block, take the 5, and then swing back for much more. Between the damage youve already done and the burn you have to finish them off, you can race them at this point.
You seem to use the word "we" a lot, when n fact youre doing everything very differently from most people.
You burn "them" not their creatures, but them. They have no counters or prevention and cant afford to mulligan to a leyline because of how reliant they are on a bogle in their starting hand.(theres a reason they run it in the first place in the hopes of randoming to it, because they know its a terrible matchup for them). Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card.
I said specifically to bring in the sweepers that you "should" be running, because if you arent theres a major flaw in your sideboard. Because you seem to be the only one who isnt. And since low damage sweepers are cheap, you kill them before they get their totem armor since, as you said, their turn 1 is almost always a defenceless bogle.
And turn 3 is "a while" compared to the real lifegain problem that is soul sisters. By turn 3 you should have a bloodhand or soon to be skullcrack. You should have gore or leyline. Assuming you cant take out their bogle, you should have one of these by now.
Dont forget that most decks splash for black. Which has this nice little tool known as "sacrifice." And its really useful for opponents who put all their eggs in a single creature. I could list any of the number of cards people have run in this deck to deal with all in local metas, but im sure you can look them up for yourself.
And lets just assume everything goes their way, and they get out their 5/5 lifelink. They look at your board and see a field of threats. They can either sit back and wait to be burned out. OR they can attack into you. You dont block, take the 5, and then swing back for much more. Between the damage youve already done and the burn you have to finish them off, you can race them at this point.
You seem to use the word "we" a lot, when n fact youre doing everything very differently from most people.
Since it obviously caused some confusion, I will refrain from using the pronoun "we" in the rest of this post.
Your quote was "Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times." I'm sure you can see why I might have thought you were talking about burning out their creatures.
Incidentally, most Aura decks run either 12 or 16 creatures, though creatures 13-16 seem to generally be mana dorks. That's not so few, is it? You talk as though he'll be trying to beat you with one creature, but in reality, the deck doesn't run very many fewer than most RDW lists do (12-creature RDW is not uncommon).
I went and looked for sweepers at the resource that is pretty much the most current...the MTGO lists. While it isn't valid for anyone's local meta, it's not a bad indication of the state of the game. I found 23 currently listed RDW decks. 7 of them use Volcanic Fallout, which will work if you cast it on turn 3 on the play and the other guy didn't draw one of his 10-12 totem armor auras. (Good luck with that.) One more uses Sulfur Elemental, which I'm sure you can see doesn't work against Auras. All sweepers are in the sideboard. That means out of 23 decks, 16 of them have no sweepers post-board, and 23 of them have no sweepers pre-board. While I can't make any claims that any of these lists are "right", they were all at least good enough to either go 3-1 or better in a DE, top-8 a PE, or top-32 a PTQ. I congratulate all of them on their ability to play well enough to overcome the major flaws in their deck designs.
21 of those lists splash black. Zero of them have any sacrifice cards. Know why? Because it's a bad idea. It is decidedly not a "nice little tool." The opponent having two creatures out is enough to negate it. When's the last time you saw a Cruel Edict in anyone's Modern 75?
I shouldn't have to explain this, but his 5/5 has vigilance. Sure, you can swing past it, but you're losing a creature for it. Eventually you will have none, particularly since most RDW lists do not run very many more creatures than most Auras lists. Game 1 this is not an option (it will have lifelink and you will not be preventing lifegain). Game 2 and 3, it's an option if you get a Leyline of Punishment (the one idea you present that I can get behind). That at least lets you race, unless of course he a) removes it, or b) finds his own Leyline.
My favorite part of your post was undoubtedly "Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card." The entire point of my post and decklist this morning was splashing white for enchantment removal. It's poor form to suggest that I should read more closely if you're not going to do it either.
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Since it obviously caused some confusion, I will refrain from using the pronoun "we" in the rest of this post.
Your quote was "Because the deck has so few creatures they are mulling for 1 and only 1, and when you burn it out instantly before any auras go on it, they scoop 9/10 times." I'm sure you can see why I might have thought you were talking about burning out their creatures.
Incidentally, most Aura decks run either 12 or 16 creatures, though creatures 13-16 seem to generally be mana dorks. That's not so few, is it? You talk as though he'll be trying to beat you with one creature, but in reality, the deck doesn't run very many fewer than most RDW lists do (12-creature RDW is not uncommon).
I went and looked for sweepers at the resource that is pretty much the most current...the MTGO lists. While it isn't valid for anyone's local meta, it's not a bad indication of the state of the game. I found 23 currently listed RDW decks. 7 of them use Volcanic Fallout, which will work if you cast it on turn 3 on the play and the other guy didn't draw one of his 10-12 totem armor auras. (Good luck with that.) One more uses Sulfur Elemental, which I'm sure you can see doesn't work against Auras. All sweepers are in the sideboard. That means out of 23 decks, 16 of them have no sweepers post-board, and 23 of them have no sweepers pre-board. While I can't make any claims that any of these lists are "right", they were all at least good enough to either go 3-1 or better in a DE, top-8 a PE, or top-32 a PTQ. I congratulate all of them on their ability to play well enough to overcome the major flaws in their deck designs.
21 of those lists splash black. Zero of them have any sacrifice cards. Know why? Because it's a bad idea. It is decidedly not a "nice little tool." The opponent having two creatures out is enough to negate it. When's the last time you saw a Cruel Edict in anyone's Modern 75?
I shouldn't have to explain this, but his 5/5 has vigilance. Sure, you can swing past it, but you're losing a creature for it. Eventually you will have none, particularly since most RDW lists do not run very many more creatures than most Auras lists. Game 1 this is not an option (it will have lifelink and you will not be preventing lifegain). Game 2 and 3, it's an option if you get a Leyline of Punishment (the one idea you present that I can get behind). That at least lets you race, unless of course he a) removes it, or b) finds his own Leyline.
My favorite part of your post was undoubtedly "Also, as a note, most boros versions run enchantment removal for this exact card." The entire point of my post and decklist this morning was splashing white for enchantment removal. It's poor form to suggest that I should read more closely if you're not going to do it either.
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Bogle is a relatively new deck. And as such looking at previous lists, youre unlikely to see tech against it. Many decks have sweepers, and a single tremor or pyroclasm in your opening hand puts a swift end to their deck. And sacrfice is always a meta specific option if you see a lot of this deck.
As far as saying nobody uses sacrifice in Modern because its bad, I find that amusing. Because Jund, the most popular deck in the format, uses Liliana. And Sacrifice is the most used ability on her. Gatekeeper is also a staple in vamps, and while a low tier deck its still considered a power card in it. A lot of decks rarely have multiple creatures out. Bogle especially so with its low count to begin with. There are several with as low as 8.
You should be more respectful to people when asking for help. Opening with a "with all due respect" followed by telling them they dont know what they are talking about, and then having the rest of your post laced with sarcastic sentences comes off as hostility. And more often than not incites a hostile response.
Bogle is a relatively new deck. And as such looking at previous lists, youre unlikely to see tech against it. Many decks have sweepers, and a single tremor or pyroclasm in your opening hand puts a swift end to their deck. And sacrfice is always a meta specific option if you see a lot of this deck.
As far as saying nobody uses sacrifice in Modern because its bad, I find that amusing. Because Jund, the most popular deck in the format, uses Liliana. And Sacrifice is the most used ability on her. Gatekeeper is also a staple in vamps, and while a low tier deck its still considered a power card in it. A lot of decks rarely have multiple creatures out. Bogle especially so with its low count to begin with. There are several with as low as 8.
You should be more respectful to people when asking for help. Opening with a "with all due respect" followed by telling them they dont know what they are talking about, and then having the rest of your post laced with sarcastic sentences comes off as hostility. And more often than not incites a hostile response.
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Vexing Devil
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
6 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Spark Elemental
2 Torpor Orb
3 Blood Moon
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Molten Rain
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Relic of Progenitus
I playtested with Dark Confidant instead of spark elemental, and Bob was just not good enough 60% of the time it would eat removal, and it had no immediate threat. So I added spark elemental back to my list. I notice allot of the time I find creatures in my hand I can't use, I might take out a set a creatures for the new burn spell in GTC the do 3 dmg to cmc no life gain one. Let me know what you guys think, about my deck and any suggestions are welcomed.
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Vexing Devil
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
6 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Spark Elemental
2 Torpor Orb
3 Blood Moon
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Molten Rain
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Relic of Progenitus
I playtested with Dark Confidant instead of spark elemental, and Bob was just not good enough 60% of the time it would eat removal, and it had no immediate threat. So I added spark elemental back to my list. I notice allot of the time I find creatures in my hand I can't use, I might take out a set a creatures for the new burn spell in GTC the do 3 dmg to cmc no life gain one. Let me know what you guys think, about my deck and any suggestions are welcomed.
My other concerns are with your sideboard. I dont like relic here. It costs a lot of mana. You need to get your hate out early for it to matter, and early you need every mana to provide pressure. Consider Tormod's? Molten rain seems really out of place as well, and possibly blood moon. They dont bring as many free wins as you may expect, they cost a lot, and they dont fit with the deck. And those slots should have things to come in for blaze against creatureless decks. Or have some tech against life gain which is very prominent.