Dark confidant feeds you for a slower game though, I mean you just spent that turn where you could have dealt 6 damage to get more cards the late game. Now your turn 3 you can't kill your opponent. Turn 4 you will kill them but let's be honest. We could have done that without Bob by that time. He is only relevant against control like decks. Against aggro/tempo/combo he is actually very mediocre. Vexing devil helps our objective here and now.
The main thing is that Vexing Devil costs 1, while Bob, Marauders and Hellspark Elemental all cost 2. Marauders will sometimes do 5 damage, at the cost of 2 mana. Devil usually does 4 damage at the cost of 1 mana. And if he does hit play and then eat removal, you still only spent 1 mana to play him, where they probably spent 2 just to answer him. Bolt is the only card that can truly answer it 1 for 1. The numbers are in favor of Vexing Devil.
Meanwhile there are a lot more cards that can answer Bob because of his 1 toughness. Magma Jet, Forked Bolt, Volcanic Fallout, Pyroclasm, unkicked Burst Lightning have all seen play in various decks and can't kill Vexing Devil, where Bob just dies. Even if you get to draw 1 extra burn spell with him, wouldn't it just be better to draw that burn spell to begin with?
Please don't take this as a personal attack vs your views. I have played both Keldon Marauders and Dark Confidant in my list. I don't play with either at this point for the above reasons.
Nah, I don't take anything like this personally, so no concerns there. Bob does cost two, but I think the benefit outweighs the costs.
Think about it this way: This deck usually loses when either your opponent manages to drag you into a long game or when you hit a pocket of lands when you really just need one more burn spell. Bob helps fight that. Also, if necessary, he chumps Goyf or Geist or what have you.
Magma Jet is another possibility, because the scry helps get through those land pockets. But I've found that having Bob helps make things more consistent. Vexing Devil isn't bad, because the upside is so good, but in my experience, he hits the board, then gets removed before he can do any damage.
But, you seem pretty convinced, so I'll probably try him out again in playtesting over the next few weeks. I'll report my findings.
I've found Vexing Devil to deal 4 damage to opponents quite often. In general, if you anticipate Vexing Devil to get through once, consider taking the 4 damage (not taking the 4 damage immediately is useful for Time Walk purposes), and if you anticipate Ve De to get through twice, definitely take the 4 damage instead. And the opponent taking 4 damage for 1 mana is precisely what RDW wants.
Ve De is especially effective on the play, in multiples, and on Turns 1-2. Those draws with multiples are pretty sick and explosive.
Ve De usually makes opponents take the 4 damage (assuming a Turns 1-2 play) against UR Storm, Exarch Twin (unless they're Deceiver Exarch-happy or they anticipate sticking a Spellskite), and Pod (if all they've stuck are mana dorks not named Wall of Roots and/or X/2's).
Yeah, it's up there before hellspark and marauders in my opinion.
The argument of saying he is bad because he can be removed is equal to saying bolt spells are bad because they can be countered.
I still haven't tested him, but I think deathrite shaman is a must in this deck as a 3-of.
I wouldn't play him. I don't think we want to make this deck creature-based. He's basically like Grim Lavamancer, which is great, but 3x of the Lavamancer is enough in this deck, imo.
Both the Lav and the Shaman are great, but a bit slow, and this is what this deck must not be: SLOW. If you are thinking about replacing the Lavamancer with the Shaman, that's different. That could be a viable option
The shaman is not slow, because it gives mana in the early turns when lavamancer can only attack. Against fast combo, I've lost countless times with spells in my hand, not being able to cast them because of not enough mana. Guess who gives us mana, then pings for 2 later, while also being a good graveyard hate card.
The shaman is not slow, because it gives mana in the early turns when lavamancer can only attack. Against fast combo, I've lost countless times with spells in my hand, not being able to cast them because of not enough mana. Guess who gives us mana, then pings for 2 later, while also being a good graveyard hate card.
You can't hit creatures though which is pretty relevant against aggro decks. I guess it depends on which match you want better mainboard cards. shaman also adds to our black mana count which is something to consider. They both are definitely solid, but I would never play both
Just run a singleton stomping grounds and you can fetch the green for the shaman when you need it. I run a singleton sacred foundry in my r/b burn for sideboard answers to tough decks.
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First tournament top 8 11/4/12 at the SCG IQ in Santa Cruz!
So if your running black why no blightning and more discard? Cause if your doing it just for bob and bump then I would rather run more sub optional options just to stay basic land red.
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Dictators prefer an unarmed population.
Decks I play and stuff.
I'm running a 2/2 split of DrS and GLM, and it seems to be working ok so far. I have a 1/1 split in the board to balance out either way I feel is needed against a particular deck, ie if someone is running Leyline of Sanctity, DrS gets damage in around it while waiting to draw nature's claim or enchantment hate of choice. I don't have a really definitive meta in my area, so sideboard is still kind of pending.
So if your running black why no blightning and more discard? Cause if your doing it just for bob and bump then I would rather run more sub optional options just to stay basic land red.
Because this is effectively a burn deck, discard doesn't fit our gameplan. It's good early, but we don't want to play it early because our first 5 mana (turns 1-3) are too important for setting the tempo of the game. We need to cause as much damage in those turns as possible.
Blightning, while being a very powerful spell, is still 3 damage for 3 mana. It's not even an instant. We don't typically play this card because its mana to damage ratio is below average.
As far as I'm concerned, mono red was acceptable in modern before RTR came out. Now, mono red is a budget choice. That is not an optimal burn deck.
Crazy hyper decks like affinity(robots, whatever) and twin combo decks(kiki pod and UR kiki twin) are hard matchups for us, but now with Rakdos charm we can combat those deck while SAVING sb space.
Playing modern burn without 4x rakdos charm is a mistake, and you need black mana to make that possible.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
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URBURB
Nah, I don't take anything like this personally, so no concerns there. Bob does cost two, but I think the benefit outweighs the costs.
Think about it this way: This deck usually loses when either your opponent manages to drag you into a long game or when you hit a pocket of lands when you really just need one more burn spell. Bob helps fight that. Also, if necessary, he chumps Goyf or Geist or what have you.
Magma Jet is another possibility, because the scry helps get through those land pockets. But I've found that having Bob helps make things more consistent. Vexing Devil isn't bad, because the upside is so good, but in my experience, he hits the board, then gets removed before he can do any damage.
But, you seem pretty convinced, so I'll probably try him out again in playtesting over the next few weeks. I'll report my findings.
Ve De is especially effective on the play, in multiples, and on Turns 1-2. Those draws with multiples are pretty sick and explosive.
Ve De usually makes opponents take the 4 damage (assuming a Turns 1-2 play) against UR Storm, Exarch Twin (unless they're Deceiver Exarch-happy or they anticipate sticking a Spellskite), and Pod (if all they've stuck are mana dorks not named Wall of Roots and/or X/2's).
The argument of saying he is bad because he can be removed is equal to saying bolt spells are bad because they can be countered.
URBURB
I wouldn't play him. I don't think we want to make this deck creature-based. He's basically like Grim Lavamancer, which is great, but 3x of the Lavamancer is enough in this deck, imo.
Both the Lav and the Shaman are great, but a bit slow, and this is what this deck must not be: SLOW. If you are thinking about replacing the Lavamancer with the Shaman, that's different. That could be a viable option
You can't hit creatures though which is pretty relevant against aggro decks. I guess it depends on which match you want better mainboard cards. shaman also adds to our black mana count which is something to consider. They both are definitely solid, but I would never play both
URBURB
My decks
Top 4 (4th) SCG IQ 11/4/12
Decks I play and stuff.
Legacy Burn
Modern Mono U Tron
4 Vexing Devil
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
2 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
3 Magma Jet
3 Volcanic Fallout
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
6 Mountains
4 Torpor Orb or Rakdos Charm
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Naturalize
3 Ensnaring Bridge
I'm also toying with another rakdos list, which I've tagged as 'Slightning' Pretty tentative list but I think it could be somewhat powerful.
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Ash Zealot
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Blightning
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Searing Blaze
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Mountain
3 Zo-zu the Punisher
3 Torpor Orb
4 Rakdos Charm
3 Duress
2 Naturalize
Because this is effectively a burn deck, discard doesn't fit our gameplan. It's good early, but we don't want to play it early because our first 5 mana (turns 1-3) are too important for setting the tempo of the game. We need to cause as much damage in those turns as possible.
Blightning, while being a very powerful spell, is still 3 damage for 3 mana. It's not even an instant. We don't typically play this card because its mana to damage ratio is below average.
As far as I'm concerned, mono red was acceptable in modern before RTR came out. Now, mono red is a budget choice. That is not an optimal burn deck.
Crazy hyper decks like affinity(robots, whatever) and twin combo decks(kiki pod and UR kiki twin) are hard matchups for us, but now with Rakdos charm we can combat those deck while SAVING sb space.
Playing modern burn without 4x rakdos charm is a mistake, and you need black mana to make that possible.