same as Tarmogoyf, players don't intend to cast him always on turn 2.. the Goyf is a dead card against Rest in Peace and Relic of Progenitus.. Scavenging Ooze is more useful against graveyard-based decks, especially Living End Combo.. Can also be useful against R-X decks because of its lifegain ability.. Just my 2 cents here..
I know that its a step back. .but i was thinking about only 3 color jund.. I fought a lot of but lost pretty much against Aggro decks.. But this works even against Aggro decks..
Hey guys, new to Jund here. I am looking for help with the mana base and general opinions on this build. This build is inspired by some of the mono-black midrange decks like The Gate.
Key differences between typical Jund builds: +Vampire Nighthawk-At worst trades with pretty much anything, at best continuously gives us life and flies over threats. +Abyssal Persecutor-In my opinion, one of the best threats in the game, T4 6/6 Flying, Trample ain't no joke. His downside isn't terribly hard to deal with considering the amount of removal Liliana and Geth's provide. +Geth's Verdict-Looking for opinions on this piece of removal, can be bad when they have a cluttered board, but it will kill anything and also remove Abyssal if hes still on the board after they have negative life. -Tarmogoyf-Yes hes an all star beater, but he doesn't have any evasion or ETB benefits. Usually all he ends up doing is saving you a few life against faster decks or at best he will get in a beat or two for some damage before they can answer. Most of the time I would rather have something else. -Dark Confidant-CMC is too high for him. +Phyrexian Arena-Better and harder to kill version of bob, unfortunately comes down T3, which is big. +Thragtusk-Hes here mainly for stabilizing with the ridiculous life-gain and CA. Are there any alternatives?
I wrote allmost same deck like you.. and i must admit.. that I miss flying creature.. but this 3 color jund.. is less suicidal because of lands.. i ussually fetch only for one color land because of blackcleave.. dont need two shock lands in second turn.. its strong..but id like to say you..
-1 Raging ravine (you always need just one in game.. dont need more.. )
-1 Maelstrom Pulse ( you always need just one in game.. dont need more.. )
Think about Thoughtseize - do you really need 4? 3 is enough..
Iam sorry but me personally I dont like Finks.. they are just 3/2 small lifegainers.. who can die twice.. you need to rework your land base cuz of them and they wont help you against strong aggro decks.. Cards like Ghor-clan Ramp will ignore your finks.. and then your finks are only 2/1.. but thats only my opinion..
and i would add some more killing cards.. today modern is ruled by affinity, tron and pod decks.. and the key to slow them is :
Affinity - kill the on carring Cranial Platin, while combat phase.. then take care of each signal pests and later make him sac champions.. (you need control! )
Tron - You need to have anything to slow him.. use as much hand control as you need (iam talking about the game n. 1).. make your land creatures big.. and attack with feeded Scavenging ooze and kill him as fast as you can.. G2. Use sowing salts.. easy win.. bye lands..
Pod deck - Kill everything on a board! PLAY AGGRO! CONTROL HIM.. do everything you need but do it really quickly..
I've been testing a Ooze Jund list featuring the obvious Scavenging Ooze and 2 MB Garza's Assassin with HUGE sucess, Garza's is great so is the Ooze. I really recommend you guys to try out.
How often has paying the life to Recover been backbreaking for Garza's Assassin? Also, do you feel frustrated when an opposing Deathrite stops you from Recovering Garza's Assassin (you should have killed opposing Scavenging Oozes with the Assassin)?
How often has paying the life to Recover been backbreaking for Garza's Assassin? Also, do you feel frustrated when an opposing Deathrite stops you from Recovering Garza's Assassin (you should have killed opposing Scavenging Oozes with the Assassin)?
The recover is pretty much worthless, it's something I ignore most of the time, he will end up exiled by himself most of the time, but I think I recovered him once, when I was at 4 life and was desperate, anyway, the recover is something totally worthless and the only thing you must do is to exile him after another creature you control dies, but as a creature it is better than avarage creature that allows some tricks and gives some "advantage" as nobody wants to throw their best creature into removal and the opponents tries to dodge him, he'll be around for some time dealing some damage depending when you play him, is a highly efficient defensive creature as he can block one creature and destroy another one, too bad it costs BBB
I would say that he is at least, worth of testing.Try it and see by yourself
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Boring...
Modern WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
--this deck is more resistive from burn decks, red-blue-white and gruul aggro.. especially when the ooze become legal in modern.. in my list, i added only 1x batterskull.. too clunky if you place more than 1x..
Hasn't been a major issue so far. 1 toughness in modern is equivalent to 3, what with bolts and paths being removals of choice. Of course, she's pretty poor against spirits, which is where olivia comes in.
I might switch to maindeck olivias instead though.
1 toughness and 3 are not the same as far as removal goes - electrolyze is a real card (and against an electrolyze deck it's not that unlikely that you have no other creatures too). It also makes it a much worse blocker, and there are occasions you'll have to block with it (even if not that often).
Not to say aristocrat is a bad card, I've no idea really, but 1 toughness is definitely a drawback.
Yeah, unless your meta is very board wipe-heavy (so you'll gladly sac everything that's about to die), I'd rather play Falkenrath Aristocrat in more creature-heavy builds. I think 2 of her and 2 Huntmaster of the Fells is a decent configuration, for example--Huntmaster is a vulnerable Human and its Wolf is decent sac fodder.
Yeah, unless your meta is very board wipe-heavy (so you'll gladly sac everything that's about to die), I'd rather play Falkenrath Aristocrat in more creature-heavy builds. I think 2 of her and 2 Huntmaster of the Fells is a decent configuration, for example--Huntmaster is a vulnerable Human and its Wolf is decent sac fodder.
Thanks guys! I think I will go with Lectrys' suggestion first and see how it goes.
My main beef with Thrun (and Olivia) is that unlike in standard, they are only good in specific matchups in modern. Aristocrat is, I feel, the most universally useful creature. Huntmaster comes close.
Combo is faster in Legacy but modern usually aims for faster kills with aggro and midrange and less protection in the form of counterspells.
Ooze is good, but he is quite slow for modern, where decks are more proactive and don't always leave mana open.
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging OOze
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Lighting Bolt
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Terminate
3x Thoughtseize
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Batterskull
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
1x Stomping Ground
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Mountain
4x Blackcleave Cliffst
1x Rootbound Crag
2x Treetop Village
2x Raging Ravine
And Its even ''Ecological'' to my life total..
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Thragtusk
Removal (5)
2 Geth's Verdict
1 Damnation
2 Lightning Bolt
Discard (8)
3 Blightning
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Card Advantage (6)
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Land (24)
3 Blood Crypt
1 Dragonskull Summit
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Slaughter Games
2 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Void
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pyroclasm
2 Duress
1 Damnation
Key differences between typical Jund builds:
+Vampire Nighthawk-At worst trades with pretty much anything, at best continuously gives us life and flies over threats.
+Abyssal Persecutor-In my opinion, one of the best threats in the game, T4 6/6 Flying, Trample ain't no joke. His downside isn't terribly hard to deal with considering the amount of removal Liliana and Geth's provide.
+Geth's Verdict-Looking for opinions on this piece of removal, can be bad when they have a cluttered board, but it will kill anything and also remove Abyssal if hes still on the board after they have negative life.
-Tarmogoyf-Yes hes an all star beater, but he doesn't have any evasion or ETB benefits. Usually all he ends up doing is saving you a few life against faster decks or at best he will get in a beat or two for some damage before they can answer. Most of the time I would rather have something else.
-Dark Confidant-CMC is too high for him.
+Phyrexian Arena-Better and harder to kill version of bob, unfortunately comes down T3, which is big.
+Thragtusk-Hes here mainly for stabilizing with the ridiculous life-gain and CA. Are there any alternatives?
-1 Raging ravine (you always need just one in game.. dont need more.. )
-1 Maelstrom Pulse ( you always need just one in game.. dont need more.. )
Think about Thoughtseize - do you really need 4? 3 is enough..
and i would add some more killing cards.. today modern is ruled by affinity, tron and pod decks.. and the key to slow them is :
Affinity - kill the on carring Cranial Platin, while combat phase.. then take care of each signal pests and later make him sac champions.. (you need control! )
Tron - You need to have anything to slow him.. use as much hand control as you need (iam talking about the game n. 1).. make your land creatures big.. and attack with feeded Scavenging ooze and kill him as fast as you can.. G2. Use sowing salts.. easy win.. bye lands..
Pod deck - Kill everything on a board! PLAY AGGRO! CONTROL HIM.. do everything you need but do it really quickly..
Tomorrow during the GPT I will test Zo-Zu, the Punisher, Eradicate and MB Sword of Light and Shadow(Moved from the side to the main)
I've been testing a Ooze Jund list featuring the obvious Scavenging Ooze and 2 MB Garza's Assassin with HUGE sucess, Garza's is great so is the Ooze. I really recommend you guys to try out.
A card that I'm loving that will never leave was both replacements for BBE, 2 Thrun, The Last Troll and the magnificent and game winning Hero of Oxid Ridge
Here the list of the Jund with Ooze I've been toying around.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Garza's Assassin
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jund Charm
2 Raging Ravine
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Copperline Gorge
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Twilight Mire
1 Graven Cairns
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Krosan Grip
1 Damnation
1 Sowing Salt
1 Slaughter Games
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Combust
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Boil
Don't ask me why, but the deck does not have mana problems
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
The recover is pretty much worthless, it's something I ignore most of the time, he will end up exiled by himself most of the time, but I think I recovered him once, when I was at 4 life and was desperate, anyway, the recover is something totally worthless and the only thing you must do is to exile him after another creature you control dies, but as a creature it is better than avarage creature that allows some tricks and gives some "advantage" as nobody wants to throw their best creature into removal and the opponents tries to dodge him, he'll be around for some time dealing some damage depending when you play him, is a highly efficient defensive creature as he can block one creature and destroy another one, too bad it costs BBB
I would say that he is at least, worth of testing.Try it and see by yourself
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
--this deck is more resistive from burn decks, red-blue-white and gruul aggro.. especially when the ooze become legal in modern.. in my list, i added only 1x batterskull.. too clunky if you place more than 1x..
Updated 18/6/13
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
Spells:19
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Batterskull
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
1 Deglamer
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Sowing Salt
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Batterskull
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
How has the aristocrat worked out for you? I feel its 1 toughness is a major drawback.
Legacy:
WUBRG Manaless Dredge GRBUW
Modern:
BRG Jund GRB
EDH/Commander:
WUG Rafiq of the Many GUW
I might switch to maindeck olivias instead though.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Not to say aristocrat is a bad card, I've no idea really, but 1 toughness is definitely a drawback.
My decks:
-Modern UWR gifts control
-Modern Mono-G aggro elves
-Azami, Lady of Scrolls EDH
-Glissa the Traitor EDH
-Modern UWR Counterbalance Control
-Modern UW enchantment control: primer, on tapped out
-Modern regular UWR control
I agree with this.. if in a tight situation (like your opponent cast a board-wipe like Wrath of God, or you are in a critical low life) that you have to sac a creature for your Falkenrath Aristocrat, Huntmaster of the Fells (not its token :D) and Dark Confidant are Humans..
My main beef with Thrun (and Olivia) is that unlike in standard, they are only good in specific matchups in modern. Aristocrat is, I feel, the most universally useful creature. Huntmaster comes close.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay