so much better or so much worse? I love keranos, its more incremental advantage and is downright unkillable
I don't want to gain incremental advantage, I want to win!
Keranos doesn't do a thing about a Siege Rhino or Tarmogoyf on the board. He can't play through an Abrupt Decay from an opponent. He won't beat a Delver player holding Combust. He can't even bolt an opponent who has a Spellskite on the board. Twin doesn't have three Cryptic Commands any more - it can't play that incremental game where you can sit back and counter everything. I liked Batterskull but people are wise to that now and just Smash to Smithereens your card.
Anyway, I'm not here to win converts. I cut Keranos a long time ago and never regretted it. Teferi was a whole lot better at five mana, for that matter.
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Keranos is great against classic control decks. Unfortunately less of those are running around right now. Something I've been testing is gigadrowse. I use it end of turn on opponent to tap down what I think is their relevant mana, so I can combo my turn. It's hard to deal with due to the replicate, it always gets some sort of work done.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
I really want to play Gigadrowse - you find that you have enough mana to use it? I found that between playing Gigadrowse and then Exarch, I couldn't tap an opponent off of Abrupt Decay/Combust. Do you play it when you've already got an Exarch out? Do it in their combat step so they cannot use or float mana? Please share your experiences!
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Results have been mixed. It works best when exarch is already out so you can use up your mana to tap them out and combo. I'm not finding that happens all that often though. Normally I end up tapping part of their lands, the ones I think will be most disruptive, and that's had mixed results as well. So far it isn't better than either pact of negation or swan song. A different card I'm considering is redirect. Now, that will have some mixed applications as well, but the potential to turn away stuff like abrupt decay or combust, provided there are other legal targets.
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Legacy RB Goblins
Well its great in scapeshift vs blue decks who can tap a player out before they go off on their turn with gigadrowse. The problem with gigadrrowse in twin is that you already have half your combo on the table and trying to tap them out is obviously setting up the twin combo on the following turn so if they have a way to interact with the combo they will do it there and kill the exarch/pestermite or just die because they can't interact.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Right. If they have a way to kill the creature then tapping doesn't matter. If they don't you're in just as good a spot with giga being pact of negation. It's been more effective simply being a stall tactic in the vein of cryptic command, keeping me alive until I can combo.
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It is very similar to URw version, but with Tarmogoyf and more reactive cards and artifact hate in the board.
I'm not honestly not sure where he is getting to - especially with lack of Affinity nowadays. I suppose he knows something that I don't know.
as for rug twin with not as many lands and less cantriping i wonder if i could use thundermaw as an asertive threat. replace keranos
I don't know why Surrak Dragonclaw gets no love. Seriously hes uncounterable and a 6/6 for 5 mana. You know what's his best ability though? FLASH. It's so underrated its insane. Against so many decks I can leave mana open in case I want to do anything else on their turn and if I don't I can just flash him in. Works great against attacking gofys. He's such a beater against American geist or control its either they have path or they lose. Seriously guys if you're going to go for Inferno titan or thundermaw in RUG twin why not at least try surrak.
But i dont play keranos vs delver, I play goyfs and obstinate baloths and huntmasters and batterskulls. I play keranos vs junk and melira pod.
Do you get to play in events with 26 card sideboards?!?
Delver is easy enough to beat if you play to a different goal than comboing out. What this means is that you prioritize removal-heavy hands and plan to stall them out around turn 5-7. At that point, no number of Treasure Cruises actually matter. You've got Electrolyze or Snapcaster + Forked Bolt or Spell Snare up. On the other hand, if you're attempting to combo, they just need to see one Vapor Snag to unwind all your plans.
So if you play that way, the trump cards should really trump. Your Dig through Time should find a card that is distorting when it resolves. Obstinate Baloth has been like that for me in Scapeshift but I wouldn't trust Twin to offer up two green sources on time and on schedule. If my goal is to resolve a big monster they can't beat, I don't want it to be something like Batterskull or Huntmaster that gets rocked by Vapor Snag or Bolt. So if you play Titan, you get to bring it in against everything, instead of having to devote diverse threats on your board to different matches. It ends up freeing a lot of sideboard space up. And I do bring it in against nearly everything. I've got three and they are a regular go-to for UWR Control, Pod, etc.
f0rk, it definitely supercharges the deck. I found that against removal-heavy decks, it was really rough sometimes when you'd mill 2 Splinter Twin and then you knew you were all in on drawing the other two. If you're going that route, I suggest a Kiki-Jiki somewhere in the list if you're doing 4 Thought Scour.
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So far my current competitive record with twin is 10-4-2.(one elite IQ-7 rounds, Two FNMs 5 and 4 rounds) Loses and draws only to delver and pod and a single blue moon deck. Deck has done outstanding against control, burn and mid range strategies and even delver lists when people arent really really proficient players. My loses to delver are only to a top 8 competitor of an elite IQ and Danny jessup who is like 16th on the SCG point leaderboard.(lost to gutshot in the mainboard -_-) That being said i am very satisfied to my current results with this deck and hope to eventually take it to a solid finish. Has anyone figured out a way to make the podmatch not god awful? Ive been satisfied with all my matchups other then pod...
But i dont play keranos vs delver, I play goyfs and obstinate baloths and huntmasters and batterskulls. I play keranos vs junk and melira pod.
Do you get to play in events with 26 card sideboards?!?
Delver is easy enough to beat if you play to a different goal than comboing out. What this means is that you prioritize removal-heavy hands and plan to stall them out around turn 5-7. At that point, no number of Treasure Cruises actually matter. You've got Electrolyze or Snapcaster + Forked Bolt or Spell Snare up. On the other hand, if you're attempting to combo, they just need to see one Vapor Snag to unwind all your plans.
So if you play that way, the trump cards should really trump. Your Dig through Time should find a card that is distorting when it resolves. Obstinate Baloth has been like that for me in Scapeshift but I wouldn't trust Twin to offer up two green sources on time and on schedule. If my goal is to resolve a big monster they can't beat, I don't want it to be something like Batterskull or Huntmaster that gets rocked by Vapor Snag or Bolt. So if you play Titan, you get to bring it in against everything, instead of having to devote diverse threats on your board to different matches. It ends up freeing a lot of sideboard space up. And I do bring it in against nearly everything. I've got three and they are a regular go-to for UWR Control, Pod, etc.
So your're saying that inferno titan now is the batterskull like threat of last year? IE the go to fair threat to win the game? I dont doubt its efefctiveness the cards I mentioned have been enough in the past to stabilize me in the past against ur delver. And keranos was always the trump but I havent played against new pod and junk too much and I dont think with rhino it is the trump from your observations as the thing to play.
So I will try it in RUG twin. Question is how many? And to completely remove batterskull?
And with a rug twin sb of batterskull, obstinate, keranos, and thrun as one ofs I could go 2 titan 1 batterskull and open up sb slots?
and dig is absurd, chucking all my high end going for a full four in my rug twin deck new list looks very good
I don't want to gain incremental advantage, I want to win!
Keranos doesn't do a thing about a Siege Rhino or Tarmogoyf on the board. He can't play through an Abrupt Decay from an opponent. He won't beat a Delver player holding Combust. He can't even bolt an opponent who has a Spellskite on the board. Twin doesn't have three Cryptic Commands any more - it can't play that incremental game where you can sit back and counter everything. I liked Batterskull but people are wise to that now and just Smash to Smithereens your card.
Anyway, I'm not here to win converts. I cut Keranos a long time ago and never regretted it. Teferi was a whole lot better at five mana, for that matter.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
as for rug twin with not as many lands and less cantriping i wonder if i could use thundermaw as an asertive threat. replace keranos
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Desolate Lighthouse
Creatures (12)
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Serum Visions
3 Thought Scour
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Burst Lightning
3 Remand
1 Izzet Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Cryptic Command
2 Splinter Twin
4 Dig Through Time
2 Pyroclasm
2 Batterskull
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nature's Claim
1 Vendilion Clique
Bah, RUG Twin people is going to have a field day today But I guess it's about time that RUG Twin gets some love.
Though I wonder why he still decided against Destructive Revelry for Nature's Claim. Nature's Claim seems better suited in a combo/control-oriented version rather than a Tarmogoyf beatdown version.
Edit :
Land Changes:
-1 Desolate Lighthouse, -2 Island, -4 Flooded Strand, -1 Sacred Foundry
<-> +1 Hinterland Harbor, +1 Forest, +1 Wooded Foothills, +4 Misty Rainforest, +1 Breeding Pool
Maindeck Changes:
-1 Batterskull, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Splinter Twin, -1 Dispel, -1 Flame Slash
<-> +4 Tarmogoyf, +1 Burst Lightning
Sideboard Changes:
-2 Wear/Tear, -1 Keranos, -2 Blood Moon, -1 Combust
<-> +2 Ancient Grudge, +1 Batterskull, +1 Nature's Claim, +1 Dispel, +1 Negate
It is very similar to URw version, but with Tarmogoyf and more reactive cards and artifact hate in the board.
I'm not honestly not sure where he is getting to - especially with lack of Affinity nowadays. I suppose he knows something that I don't know.
I don't know why Surrak Dragonclaw gets no love. Seriously hes uncounterable and a 6/6 for 5 mana. You know what's his best ability though? FLASH. It's so underrated its insane. Against so many decks I can leave mana open in case I want to do anything else on their turn and if I don't I can just flash him in. Works great against attacking gofys. He's such a beater against American geist or control its either they have path or they lose. Seriously guys if you're going to go for Inferno titan or thundermaw in RUG twin why not at least try surrak.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Do you get to play in events with 26 card sideboards?!?
Delver is easy enough to beat if you play to a different goal than comboing out. What this means is that you prioritize removal-heavy hands and plan to stall them out around turn 5-7. At that point, no number of Treasure Cruises actually matter. You've got Electrolyze or Snapcaster + Forked Bolt or Spell Snare up. On the other hand, if you're attempting to combo, they just need to see one Vapor Snag to unwind all your plans.
So if you play that way, the trump cards should really trump. Your Dig through Time should find a card that is distorting when it resolves. Obstinate Baloth has been like that for me in Scapeshift but I wouldn't trust Twin to offer up two green sources on time and on schedule. If my goal is to resolve a big monster they can't beat, I don't want it to be something like Batterskull or Huntmaster that gets rocked by Vapor Snag or Bolt. So if you play Titan, you get to bring it in against everything, instead of having to devote diverse threats on your board to different matches. It ends up freeing a lot of sideboard space up. And I do bring it in against nearly everything. I've got three and they are a regular go-to for UWR Control, Pod, etc.
f0rk, it definitely supercharges the deck. I found that against removal-heavy decks, it was really rough sometimes when you'd mill 2 Splinter Twin and then you knew you were all in on drawing the other two. If you're going that route, I suggest a Kiki-Jiki somewhere in the list if you're doing 4 Thought Scour.
That being said here is my updated list:
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Steam Vents
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Sulfur Falls
4x Splinter Twin
1x Cryptic Command
3x Dig Through Time
2x Dispel
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Remand
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Pestermite
1x Spellskite
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
1x Flame Slash
2x shatterstorm
1x shattering spree
1x counterflux
1x negate
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Batterskull
2x Blood Moon
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Echoing Truth
2x Vendilion Clique
Modern: U/R Twin
Legacy: U/B Reanimator
So your're saying that inferno titan now is the batterskull like threat of last year? IE the go to fair threat to win the game? I dont doubt its efefctiveness the cards I mentioned have been enough in the past to stabilize me in the past against ur delver. And keranos was always the trump but I havent played against new pod and junk too much and I dont think with rhino it is the trump from your observations as the thing to play.
So I will try it in RUG twin. Question is how many? And to completely remove batterskull?
And with a rug twin sb of batterskull, obstinate, keranos, and thrun as one ofs I could go 2 titan 1 batterskull and open up sb slots?
and dig is absurd, chucking all my high end going for a full four in my rug twin deck new list looks very good
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpmil15/decktech-tarmo-twin-patrick-dickmann-2014-12-13
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Holy crap just 2x copies of Twin. Awesome. I love this list.