Hah, you beat me to it. It looks like they've been following this thread + michael majors as well, considering they both have 2 PKNalaar MB. I'm glad to see that they have basically the same creature base that I do (I'm running an angler over the lavamancer). I'm running 22 lands and a 4th Thoughtscour to support it as well.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I wonder if the list running Darkblast found a lot of practical value out of it, since it was something discussed back and forth. PKN have been allstars this expansion. They give inevitability to any deck in grix colors (something we were lacking). I'm not sold on hangarback next to PKN yet though (I still think pyro is better in that spot if anything), but I could be wrong. To me it seems like the card is good when we're already winning, but too slow otherwise.
I wonder if the list running Darkblast found a lot of practical value out of it, since it was something discussed back and forth. PKN have been allstars this expansion. They give inevitability to any deck in grix colors (something we were lacking). I'm not sold on hangarback next to PKN yet though (I still think pyro is better in that spot if anything), but I could be wrong. To me it seems like the card is good when we're already winning, but too slow otherwise.
Darkblast on my SB has been an all star, especially in the aggro meta. With K. Command I can always get value, getting the creature I dredged back and kill their dude. And repeat.
Im playing this deck with abbots and 2 swiftspears and 2 young pyro and i thought: why not playing a falkenrath aristocrat? All creatures are basically humans, she has haste, flying! Can hit for 6/7 and its indestructible almost all the times!
Im playing this deck with abbots and 2 swiftspears and 2 young pyro and i thought: why not playing a falkenrath aristocrat? All creatures are basically humans, she has haste, flying! Can hit for 6/7 and its indestructible almost all the times!
What you guys think?
Without knowing your total list its hard to value aristocrat.
At the moment I play a list quite similar to the one Danny Jessup had this last SCG open. I am down to 1 delve creature but run 2x Pia and Kiran and an Olivia Voldaren. Olivia can be absolutely insane. I have won games by slamming her from the top, stealing goyfs and killing walkers from my empty board. I would go with her instead even though I can see a build with loads of humans to sac that an aristocrat could be amazing for pushing through the last of damage.
4x polluted delta
2x bloodstain mire
2x blood cript
1x steam vents
1x watery grave
1x reflecting pool
1x sulfur falls
1x dragonskull summit
1x (same as the 2 above but U/B)
2x swamps
2x mountain
1x Island
1x creeping tar pit
I might take away gitaxian and put in thoughtscour, i do not own jace but i really want now after what ive read, i just cant afford that much now.
Crimson whisps just seemed good to speed up and save a turn with tasigur and abbots and it draws me a card, when tested i will know if adding 1 more or remove em completely.
What you guys think? Aristocrats works?
P.s. I made this deck trying to spend the least possible so for now lands are what they are
I think I like the comments more than the actual article lol. I see some people off this board must have been commenting, by a lot of good points were made for the people who don't completely understand the decks. The dude on their talking about twin made some good points too. It's funny, the "final list" looks like my Blue Jund list, and is close to my Twin list postboard. I've been switching back and forth from week to week since I'm the only one at my store running grix or twin; PKN has been the common winning factor between both archetypes. We all knew it was good, but damn is it great! Lol.
Sidenote, has anyone noticed how much more badass the Intro Deck's PKN art is? I'm thinking of grabbing those for my deck! The art looks more aggressive than the lovey dovey pose in the booster art
Edit: don't ever watch Trevor try and play grixis; it's as painful as our manabase lol.
I think I like the comments more than the actual article lol. I see some people off this board must have been commenting, by a lot of good points were made for the people who don't completely understand the decks. The dude on their talking about twin made some good points too. It's funny, the "final list" looks like my Blue Jund list, and is close to my Twin list postboard. I've been switching back and forth from week to week since I'm the only one at my store running grix or twin; PKN has been the common winning factor between both archetypes. We all knew it was good, but damn is it great! Lol.
Sidenote, has anyone noticed how much more badass the Intro Deck's PKN art is? I'm thinking of grabbing those for my deck! The art looks more aggressive than the lovey dovey pose in the booster art
Edit: don't ever watch Trevor try and play grixis; it's as painful as our manabase lol.
Hah, yeah I definitely commented on there. And I agree for sure about the PKN art. I ordered a pair of them online once they cemented themselves into the decklist. I was pretty happy when I first saw that art too, considering how much I dislike the regular art.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
So I was thinking of this while I was watching the Legacy GP yesterday. We have already seen lists splashing white for lingering souls for extra synergy.
How about replacing the 2 tasigurs for 2 Monastery Mentors as our end game win condition? The synergy with Jace is insane being able to buyback spells and chain some cantrips
Now why Mentor over YP? Because Mentor is way more explosive and can actually end the game in 1 Turn. You Slam mentor late game, chain some spells with a flipped jace and you got an army that can hit next turn for 9-12 damage easily.
That will allow us to close games fast ones we take over board control, which is one of the things the deck is lacking. What do you think?
Hi guys. I felt in love with abbot and think on moving to this build from grixis control due to the proactive playstile but I'd like to have some advice on the list. Here is what i was thinking to play:
4 snapcaster
4 abbot
3 gurmag
2 tasigur
1 vendilion (flex spot maybe better an electeolyze or izzet charm)
4 serum
4 thought scour
4 bolt
4 terminate
3 rise
3 kolaghan command
4 inquisition of kozilak/2-2 inquisition remand
Sd:
1 languish
1 staticaster
2 anger
1 ee
4 fulminator
1 flashfreeze
1 countersquall
2 dispell
2 mana leak/2vampiric link
You could have noticed I'm not planning to run jace or liliana. The main reason is that I don't own they but i also think that liliana is to mana intensive and i wouldn't play her anyway, hace instead is just op and to powerfull not to be played but I'd like him more in a pure grixis control shell wich aim to go late game.
Sorry for the double post, I' m trying some little chaingings. +2 thoughtseize md -1 gurmag -1 vendilion.
-2 leak -1 languish +1 spellskite +2 vampiric link
Hi guys. I felt in love with abbot and think on moving to this build from grixis control due to the proactive playstile but I'd like to have some advice on the list. Here is what i was thinking to play:
4 snapcaster
4 abbot
3 gurmag
2 tasigur
1 vendilion (flex spot maybe better an electeolyze or izzet charm)
4 serum
4 thought scour
4 bolt
4 terminate
3 rise
3 kolaghan command
4 inquisition of kozilak/2-2 inquisition remand
Sd:
1 languish
1 staticaster
2 anger
1 ee
4 fulminator
1 flashfreeze
1 countersquall
2 dispell
2 mana leak/2vampiric link
You could have noticed I'm not planning to run jace or liliana. The main reason is that I don't own they but i also think that liliana is to mana intensive and i wouldn't play her anyway, hace instead is just op and to powerfull not to be played but I'd like him more in a pure grixis control shell wich aim to go late game.
I think the reason why no one responded is because if you don't plan to run Jace in this proactive shell, then there's no point in playing it because it wouldn't be optimal for competition; you're probably better off playing Aggro Control (where you play at instant speed, hence, stronger without Jace).
Grixis proactive and reactive control are both going through some ***** though :/ All these aggro decks forced me back into twin (though I board into Blue Jund).
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
What are your guys thoughts on splashing white for Geist of Saint Traft? He gives us a quick clock, can be revived by rise/fall and command, etc. Here is my list
What are your guys thoughts on splashing white for Monastery Mentor? He gives us a quick clock, he likes tons of cantrips, can be revived by rise/fall and command, etc. Here is my list
I think he has the same downfalls as YP. The deck feels like it wants to grind down to topdeck mode where these types of cards aren't very good. I'd rather have PKN in almost every scenario because it gives you immediate value, and is usually the best target to recur, regardless of your hand size/content.
Edit: that being said, I'd still encourage you to try it out and post your results here.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Sorry, I meant to say thoughts on Geist of Saint Traft. He is a very resilient card and his issue has always been getting through blockers. In grixis colors, it can get him there through it's disruption. I'll post results when I start piloting a deck like this:
Sorry, I meant to say thoughts on Geist of Saint Traft. He is a very resilient card and his issue has always been getting through blockers. In grixis colors, it can get him there through it's disruption. I'll post results when I start piloting a deck like this:
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
If you run 9 fetchlands that can find a blue source (Tarns/Strands/deltas) than it's not that hard. It's a little bit more painful on the mana base sometimes but it's usually fine. I also run 4 fast lands.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I've been playing this deck for a couple of weeks online. Here are some thoughts and questions for other pilots....
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy- I've been pretty happy running 2x but I've yet to test a list with 4x. There's definitely games he doesn't show up at all, but drawing the second one seems pretty bad. I'm curious how most of you make the argument for 4x seeing as how the deck has so many ways to get the first one back from the yard, and the second is pretty much dead once the first flips.
Dreadbore - I took this from Danny Jessup's list from SCG Dallas. Conclusion: It's fine. Losing instant speed stinks. There's something to be said for preventing a Lili/Karn/Ugin from getting out of control but unless Lili was +1'ed, the opponent still gets a 2:1 out of these exchanges. Also, we lose vs. Tron anyway. I'm running 2x right now in my 75 but may cut 1 or both.
Rise // Fall - This card has not been impressing me but I can't bring myself to cut it because when it's good, it's great. Rise excels in the super grindy games, but these are already our best matchups. Fall is high variance and against the current super fast meta-game it's often the last thing you want. I'm running 1x MB 1x SB right now and might cut 1 for something better against aggressive decks.
Tron matchup - Ugh. This matchup feels unwinnable. Our deck wants to grind and Tron just has way better endgame than we do. Occasionally, I'll get one of my 3x molten rains and jace/snap it back which feels amazing. Most of the time however, I either don't draw my molten rain at all, it comes a turn too late, or they just immediately replace the missing tron piece and play wurmcoil/karn. Is it worth going to 4-5x sideboard cards to bring this matchup closer to 50/50 or should we just concede and use those slots for our winnable matchups? MTGO is infested with Tron right now, I think it's got a strong presence in paper too.
Liliana of the Veil vs Countermagic - I'm currently having decent success running 4 MD counters (2 remand/2 leak) w/ 0 Lili. I'm thinking of cutting 2x Remand for Lili as I think she's just too powerful and fits our gameplan too well to leave out. Remand doesn't seem great in our deck. Without an early clock, we're often time walking ourselves by leaving mana up for it. Late game it just cycles.
Grixis Charm - Has anyone tested this? The first mode is obviously better in a tempo shell but it would be the only card in our entire deck that can deal with resolved enchantments (temporarily). The second mode is no terminate, but it 1:1 kills a 4/5 goyf in combat w/ any non-jace creature that we run (including tokens). The third mode also seems great both offensively and defensively w/ YP or P&K tokens. None of the modes are mana efficient as is usually the case with the charm spells but it offers a ton of flexibility.
Hah, you beat me to it. It looks like they've been following this thread + michael majors as well, considering they both have 2 PKNalaar MB. I'm glad to see that they have basically the same creature base that I do (I'm running an angler over the lavamancer). I'm running 22 lands and a 4th Thoughtscour to support it as well.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
What you guys think?
Without knowing your total list its hard to value aristocrat.
At the moment I play a list quite similar to the one Danny Jessup had this last SCG open. I am down to 1 delve creature but run 2x Pia and Kiran and an Olivia Voldaren. Olivia can be absolutely insane. I have won games by slamming her from the top, stealing goyfs and killing walkers from my empty board. I would go with her instead even though I can see a build with loads of humans to sac that an aristocrat could be amazing for pushing through the last of damage.
3x snapcaster
2x swiftspear
2x pyromancer
2x tasigur
1x aristocrat
4x serum visions
4x bolt
3x terminate
2x kolaghans
2x thoughtseize
2x inquisition
3x rise/fall
3x liliana
2x gitaxian probe
2x crimson whisps
4x polluted delta
2x bloodstain mire
2x blood cript
1x steam vents
1x watery grave
1x reflecting pool
1x sulfur falls
1x dragonskull summit
1x (same as the 2 above but U/B)
2x swamps
2x mountain
1x Island
1x creeping tar pit
I might take away gitaxian and put in thoughtscour, i do not own jace but i really want now after what ive read, i just cant afford that much now.
Crimson whisps just seemed good to speed up and save a turn with tasigur and abbots and it draws me a card, when tested i will know if adding 1 more or remove em completely.
What you guys think? Aristocrats works?
P.s. I made this deck trying to spend the least possible so for now lands are what they are
http://modernnexus.com/the-evolution-of-grixis-control/
I think I like the comments more than the actual article lol. I see some people off this board must have been commenting, by a lot of good points were made for the people who don't completely understand the decks. The dude on their talking about twin made some good points too. It's funny, the "final list" looks like my Blue Jund list, and is close to my Twin list postboard. I've been switching back and forth from week to week since I'm the only one at my store running grix or twin; PKN has been the common winning factor between both archetypes. We all knew it was good, but damn is it great! Lol.
Sidenote, has anyone noticed how much more badass the Intro Deck's PKN art is? I'm thinking of grabbing those for my deck! The art looks more aggressive than the lovey dovey pose in the booster art
Edit: don't ever watch Trevor try and play grixis; it's as painful as our manabase lol.
Hah, yeah I definitely commented on there. And I agree for sure about the PKN art. I ordered a pair of them online once they cemented themselves into the decklist. I was pretty happy when I first saw that art too, considering how much I dislike the regular art.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
How about replacing the 2 tasigurs for 2 Monastery Mentors as our end game win condition? The synergy with Jace is insane being able to buyback spells and chain some cantrips
Now why Mentor over YP? Because Mentor is way more explosive and can actually end the game in 1 Turn. You Slam mentor late game, chain some spells with a flipped jace and you got an army that can hit next turn for 9-12 damage easily.
That will allow us to close games fast ones we take over board control, which is one of the things the deck is lacking. What do you think?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
4 snapcaster
4 abbot
3 gurmag
2 tasigur
1 vendilion (flex spot maybe better an electeolyze or izzet charm)
4 serum
4 thought scour
4 bolt
4 terminate
3 rise
3 kolaghan command
4 inquisition of kozilak/2-2 inquisition remand
8 fetch
2 steam vents
1 watery
1 blood crypt
1 darkslick
1 sulfur
2 creeping
2 island
1 mountain
1 swamp
Sd:
1 languish
1 staticaster
2 anger
1 ee
4 fulminator
1 flashfreeze
1 countersquall
2 dispell
2 mana leak/2vampiric link
You could have noticed I'm not planning to run jace or liliana. The main reason is that I don't own they but i also think that liliana is to mana intensive and i wouldn't play her anyway, hace instead is just op and to powerfull not to be played but I'd like him more in a pure grixis control shell wich aim to go late game.
-2 leak -1 languish +1 spellskite +2 vampiric link
I think the reason why no one responded is because if you don't plan to run Jace in this proactive shell, then there's no point in playing it because it wouldn't be optimal for competition; you're probably better off playing Aggro Control (where you play at instant speed, hence, stronger without Jace).
Grixis proactive and reactive control are both going through some ***** though :/ All these aggro decks forced me back into twin (though I board into Blue Jund).
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/grixis-geist/
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I think he has the same downfalls as YP. The deck feels like it wants to grind down to topdeck mode where these types of cards aren't very good. I'd rather have PKN in almost every scenario because it gives you immediate value, and is usually the best target to recur, regardless of your hand size/content.
Edit: that being said, I'd still encourage you to try it out and post your results here.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/grixis-geist/
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Geist definitely seems pretty interesting, but consistently needing white by turn 3 seems like a lot of stress on the manabase.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy- I've been pretty happy running 2x but I've yet to test a list with 4x. There's definitely games he doesn't show up at all, but drawing the second one seems pretty bad. I'm curious how most of you make the argument for 4x seeing as how the deck has so many ways to get the first one back from the yard, and the second is pretty much dead once the first flips.
Dreadbore - I took this from Danny Jessup's list from SCG Dallas. Conclusion: It's fine. Losing instant speed stinks. There's something to be said for preventing a Lili/Karn/Ugin from getting out of control but unless Lili was +1'ed, the opponent still gets a 2:1 out of these exchanges. Also, we lose vs. Tron anyway. I'm running 2x right now in my 75 but may cut 1 or both.
Rise // Fall - This card has not been impressing me but I can't bring myself to cut it because when it's good, it's great. Rise excels in the super grindy games, but these are already our best matchups. Fall is high variance and against the current super fast meta-game it's often the last thing you want. I'm running 1x MB 1x SB right now and might cut 1 for something better against aggressive decks.
Tron matchup - Ugh. This matchup feels unwinnable. Our deck wants to grind and Tron just has way better endgame than we do. Occasionally, I'll get one of my 3x molten rains and jace/snap it back which feels amazing. Most of the time however, I either don't draw my molten rain at all, it comes a turn too late, or they just immediately replace the missing tron piece and play wurmcoil/karn. Is it worth going to 4-5x sideboard cards to bring this matchup closer to 50/50 or should we just concede and use those slots for our winnable matchups? MTGO is infested with Tron right now, I think it's got a strong presence in paper too.
Liliana of the Veil vs Countermagic - I'm currently having decent success running 4 MD counters (2 remand/2 leak) w/ 0 Lili. I'm thinking of cutting 2x Remand for Lili as I think she's just too powerful and fits our gameplan too well to leave out. Remand doesn't seem great in our deck. Without an early clock, we're often time walking ourselves by leaving mana up for it. Late game it just cycles.
Grixis Charm - Has anyone tested this? The first mode is obviously better in a tempo shell but it would be the only card in our entire deck that can deal with resolved enchantments (temporarily). The second mode is no terminate, but it 1:1 kills a 4/5 goyf in combat w/ any non-jace creature that we run (including tokens). The third mode also seems great both offensively and defensively w/ YP or P&K tokens. None of the modes are mana efficient as is usually the case with the charm spells but it offers a ton of flexibility.
Here's my current list
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Young Pyromancer
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtscour
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Terminate
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dreadbore
1 Rise // Fall
1 Thoughtseize
3 Molten Rain
2 Dispel
2 Izzet Staticaster
1 Dreadbore
1 Spellskite
1 Rending Volley
1 Rise // Fall
1 Duress
1 Vandal Blast
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grim Lavamancer