MTG Salvation

Quote from blazboi »

Is liliana bad with counterspells or does it still work ok?

you can run her with counterpsells but running counterspells that always work is nice. So stuff like countersquall, snare are pretty nice with her.

it seems the optimal way to run grixis isn't to try and imitate Jund but to stay true to the U aspect of Grixis that jund lacks- counterspells.

Ryan has taken a hybrid control/delver list to 5th place at the modern open. It is hybrid in more ways than 1: 4 delver, but 20 lands; no probes, but 2 remands; 4 scours, but 4 AV in the side.

This deck is geared to tempo/aggro game 1, then if it needs to go long or over, out come the 4 AVs.

Quote from MarcWizard »

it seems the optimal way to run grixis isn't to try and imitate Jund but to stay true to the U aspect of Grixis that jund lacks- counterspells.

Ryan has taken a hybrid control/delver list to 5th place at the modern open. It is hybrid in more ways than 1: 4 delver, but 20 lands; no probes, but 2 remands; 4 scours, but 4 AV in the side.

This deck is geared to tempo/aggro game 1, then if it needs to go long or over, out come the 4 AVs.

deck seemed to be super good.. especially how fast it can be with a t2 flipped delver. however the AV sb seems hard to me, I watched ryan say he boarded it in almost every game lol why isnt it just main? and what are we cutting for it? i noramlly play control, and the issue has been a clock, atleast an early one. ive actually gotten splashing green.. which is actually pretty sweet. which allows me to play 4 goyfs main and then have some better life gain sb. however i cant play AV and have to play serum just to smooth out my draw faster because the mana is quite greedy..

Quote from ktkenshinx »

If we see lots of meaningful variation down the road around GDD or other cards, a split might eventually be warranted. But for now, I am looking over the past few pages of each thread and the lists are just too similar to justify a split today. Moreover, the distinction is too granular for the average forumgoer to know intuitively or even through experience in the format, which further suggests the split is not currently needed.

The main cards behind "Blue Jund" (JVP and Abbot) have both been pretty much rendered not good enough so I agree that merging the threads is fine. I haven't seen either card in a well placing Grixis list in ages, and GDD lists are typically not running them either (like Chapin's deck from this weekend). I'll just give my opinion that, from a practical point of view, it's easier to read through one thread than two. I'll usually read through both threads but then post on the other Grixis thread anyway since it gets more views.

The distinctions between Blue Jund and Grixis Control...

Blue Jund is a black deck that uses blue and red, which leans more on disruption (Lili, IoK, Tseize). Grixis Control is a blue deck that uses black and red, and leans more on counter spells (Snare, Leak, Remand, Cryptic Command).

Blue Jund has more creatures (10-13) while Grixis Control has fewer (8-10).

Creature selection is also different... While both decks run 3-4 Snapcaster and 2 Kalitas, Blue Jund is less likely to rely on delve creatures (Tasigur, Angler) than Grixis Control. Also, Blue Jund would never run Thought Scour. Blue Jund can make better use of Dark Confidant while Grixis Control will lean on Ancestral Vision for card draw (though, flipping AV to Bob wouldn't be a bad play, at all).

Goblin Dark Dwellers is a bit of a wildcard. It's still the new hotness and people are going to jam it in any deck they think it'll work. It's one-of, at best, due to being 5cc and RR. I personally don't run it, as I prefer to curve out much lower in a midrange build. Control builds should be just fine with it.

Lands... Blue Jund is going to run more fast lands to get that turn one IoK/Tseize. Blue Jund will usually have one of each basic, while Grixis Control will run a 2nd Island. Grixis Control is more likely to run a 3rd or 4th creature land.

So, yes, there is a lot of overlap in the cards used... But, the decks are piloted completely different. It's like different flavors of curry.

http://timevaultgames.wpengine.com/top-8-decklists-528-modern-open/

The 3rd list down is a Blue Jund deck that got 1st place at my LGS's open this past weekend. What do you guys think? What about this do you think made it a better choice than the control version?

Hey guys! I know this list is very unconventional for Grxis Control/Delver but I'd like to share it.
I have gone 4-0 for the past 3 weeks at my LGS FNM's and have had succes against many modern decks ( valakut.dredge.infect.death and taxes. Abzan. Control) .
The deck works by playing hand hate early game then following up with attrition and creature removal. You also run many redundant spells to see your opponents hand constantly.
The main idea is to delay early game and play lots of instants/ sorceress as well as loose life. Then when you and your opponent are both at low or no cards. U follow up with a bedlam reveler. Discard usually 1 or 0 cards then draw 3.
We are a suicide deck so deaths shadow can easily close up games but the life loss mechanic is optional . Against burn we choose to pay for our probes and fetches as to not take to much damage to fast . Anyway lemme know what you think!

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/shadow-delver-3/
Last edited by dylanyad: 5 minutes ago

@Pdx

I really dig the list, but I'm unsure how I feel about GDD. I also think lili last hope better fits of LotV. I understand LotV is great, but a buddy of mine at the game store plays last hope and was super relevant in most of his games

Quote from Prince87 »

A Jace list managed to go 6-1 at a PTQ!

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/526737#online

Only one tasigur is odd. I like the list though.

I like the list too, been testing it a bit and it feels good. Some thoughts:

So many one-ofs! We have Visions and a looter, but it still feels like the list could be tightened a bit.

4 Terminate feels like a lot. Most likely a meta call, but I almost want to shave some considering we also have Bolt, Pact, Lili, and K Command. Definitely makes Kalitas shine though!

3 Lili and 3 Jace feels perfect. Rise // Fall has done a lot of work too. I almost want more discard, maybe one Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality.

Agreed that one Tasigur feels low. I guess with Jace and the lack of Thought Scour, it is harder to support the delve creature.

Definitely want to give it some more play time, and hear what others think of the list and what potential changes could be made.

Some good points! After more testing, I agree that CB is sideboard-only material, but it is great there since it just destroys burn.

I see your point with Lili, but I still feel like I do not mind seeing one in the average game. It can just completely lock down the game. That said, seeing 2 Lili can often be less than great. Maybe 2 is a better number for her.

What I do want to test is running a single Chandra, Torch of Defiance in the 60 alongside Lili. I think there is potential for her to act as a pseudo-Bob with some reach, which is nasty if both players are hellbent. Of course, this might just be awful, or simply a win-more card, but I think its worth trying out.

The sideboard I think can make Burn and Combo pretty winnable. Tron is rough though, it takes so many slots and still doesn't feel like a good match. Honestly think I might just go for the dodge there.

Really liking the proactive build though!

Quote from Pdxspaf »

http://timevaultgames.wpengine.com/top-8-decklists-528-modern-open/

The 3rd list down is a Blue Jund deck that got 1st place at my LGS's open this past weekend. What do you guys think? What about this do you think made it a better choice than the control version?

By far the most interesting thing about this list is the complete lack of Serum Visions. Anyone can speculate as to why? With so many silver bullets, it's odd that he wouldn't want some means to dodge the obsolete ones in each respective match.

Congrads Prince87! nice to see the blue jund (or a proactive grixis deck) doing well

How were ur matches?

I like the combination of this 3 fast lands

I LOVE Dark Intimations, but I am not sure it belongs in the deck; it's really slow, and although there is insane value to be had, I think that it's just a slow Kolaghan's Command in a lot of matchups

As for the Fatal Push split, I'm currently on 4 Bolts, 3 Terminate and 2 Push. Seems to be working so far. Here's my list, https://deckstats.net/decks/3202/585475-grixis-control/en

Hi guys,

Looking at getting back into modern after about 6 months out.

Can someone please give me a rundown of how Proactive Grixis goes verse the tiered decks?

Cheers!

So, I realize that this thread is mostly dead, but I'm looking to Necro it. I'm taking my build of this deck (https://deckstats.net/decks/3202/585475-grixis-control/en) to a local TCG States, and I made a document about general sideboarding guidelines based on my 75. I wanted some input as to if the 75 looks good, if I'm correct what my opponents are likely to SB, and if what I bring in/take out is correct. All feedback is welcome, even if it's "Don't play this deck, ur *****ty" haha.

Here it is: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14vj6LYnyxBLcrOQebUXm5AOtLU1RncFvkqpzeSJpges/edit?usp=sharing

Quote from jeffskai_delver »

So, I realize that this thread is mostly dead, but I'm looking to Necro it. I'm taking my build of this deck (https://deckstats.net/decks/3202/585475-grixis-control/en) to a local TCG States, and I made a document about general sideboarding guidelines based on my 75. I wanted some input as to if the 75 looks good, if I'm correct what my opponents are likely to SB, and if what I bring in/take out is correct. All feedback is welcome, even if it's "Don't play this deck, ur *****ty" haha.

Here it is: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14vj6LYnyxBLcrOQebUXm5AOtLU1RncFvkqpzeSJpges/edit?usp=sharing

What's in your build that isn't in the Established Grixis Control thread? All I see is JVP, and he's a lightning rod for bolt and Fatal Push that those decks otherwise don't have.

I think this thread is dead because there's no reason to have two.

I was unsure- it seemed like the normal thread was mostly about the Burkhart Cryptic Command/AV version, and I didn't want to post incorrectly there.

Thread locked and archived. Please continue the Grixis discussion in the more centralized Grixis Control thread:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/603567-grixis-control