I don't like Krasis. When it all goes to *****, I want to only need 1 U and 2 R requirements. I don't want to need to find G on top of that when my only chance is to combo off.
I've been playing Temur Twin for a year and a half now, and it seems were trying really hard to stretch into value to combat Kolaghan's Command and delve creatures. We have even turned to using four Huntmaster's in some 75's, as shown in the latest MKM Series Modern Main Event. I'm curious instead of generating value out of creatures, why haven't we tried planeswalkers?
I've been wondering why no one has even mentioned using Garruk Relentless or Garruk Wildspeaker. With Relentless, we would get cheap wolves, and possibly blow up small creatures like Goblin Guides, Mana dorks, etc, and if he flips, we get a tutor for half our combo.
With Wildespeaker, we would get a Planeswalker on 4 and enough mana to remand whatever they play on their turn.
Either way they're getting punished by adding planeswalker to our graveyard, allowing Goyf to be an even bigger threat.
I'm going to be testing this in my 75 this weekend, there is a qualifer coming up soon at my LGS so I want to see if I can use this tech to my advantage, or if it's just bad.
I don't like Krasis. When it all goes to *****, I want to only need 1 U and 2 R requirements. I don't want to need to find G on top of that when my only chance is to combo off.
Just grab stomping ground when you are going to combo off with him? Whining about having green mana is odd considering this is a RUG thread.
@ Torlash. A poster above or maybe on page 3 has some great initial results with sarkhan unbroken. He does cost one more mana but the upside is drawing cards and making 4/4 fliers. It does warm my heart seeing all the value creatures you are running
I dunno, I think I'd rather have a Gurruk Wildspeaker turn 4 than a Sarkhan turn 5.. His ult can be a lot more meaningful than Sarkhans, and he leaves you a lot less vulnerable. I'm going to playtest today, and see what I think about the Planeswalkers.
Extra colored mana requirement is a legit concern, don't be an ********. If you mulligan down and keep a hand of Krasis + Twin, you need to know you are going to have that option. 3 colored mana requirements is harder to hit than 2 if that was a pestermite.
I believe it to be rather trivial, the amount of hands where we have twin, krasis, two red sources and no green has to be extremely low. It's basically hands with no forest, breeding pool, stomping ground or any or our 8-9 fetchlands. So we are looking at Island, Island, Sulfur Falls and Steam Vents. It just is a little too small of a chance to be taken that seriously. I'm not going to argue about the validity of this fish guy but we aren't lightly splashing green with are a legit RUG deck.
The only problem with plainswalkers is that they often make you tap out which means you can't combo out that turn or threaten the combo. Wildspeaker doesn't seem as good as Garruk Relentless. Especially because he costs 2 G which means having mana for cryptic or twin requirements might be more difficult to get.
Well I think Krasis might be good with all of these Kolaghan's Commands, forked bolt, pyroclasm, electrolyze around.
Well I think Krasis might be good with all of these Kolaghan's Commands, forked bolt, pyroclasm, electrolyze around.
I'm 50/50 on Krasis. 3 toughness is a lot less than 4, in terms of self-protection for comboing off. And while 3/3 is a decent body, modern is kind of a world of tiny creatures or huge creatures, so it's in a bit of an awkward spot on the beatdown plan. Maybe more of a sideboard card in typical RUG builds.
We arent a legit RUG deck. We run 4 G cards all with a single G requirement. G is a very small splash, and we shouldn't put a G requirement on our combo. There are two games we try to play, the G beatdown plan with goyfs and tap creatures for tempo, and the UR combo plan where goyf plays a trivial role. In a matchup like affinity or burn where combo is one of our best winning options, I don't want to fetch/shock more than I have to in order to hit the mana requirements to auto win. Krasis is an unnecessary strain on the mana base with no reasonable upside.
I made a thread about it in the Modern general board and saw some discussion in the RUG Delver thread, but if you're not a fan of Blood Moons in your sideboard, Chameleon Colossus is absolutely nuts against Jund. It dodges all of their removal, lets you swing past or chump Tasigur all day, and the pump ability lets you win combat everytime against opposing Goyfs or big Scoozes. Lili-Edict, double Bolt, or Thoughtseize are the only real ways to deal with it. There's even the true dream of extreme late game pump twice to sixteen your opponent.
Similarly, Grixis only has double Bolt or Cryptic bounce to remove it. Late game, you're likely able to play around Mana Leak to get it to resolve, only Cryptic is going to give you too much trouble.
With so many Kolaghan's Command, Terminate decks running around I think this is one of the best options to combat these grindy midrange decks now that no one is playing Path. I'd recommend everyone who anticipates being paired up against RBx throw one or two in their sideboard.
No, but if I mulligan to 5 against an aggressive deck, Im looking to combo as soon as possible without shocking myself. Adding an additional color cost loses us a lot of percentage points. Its just not worth the extra 1 Power over a pester mite.
That is a single scenario to help you understand why we even play the combo. The combo is in there so we can win normally unwinable games. We gain percentage points in tough games from the combo where a RUG delver deck or RUG moon would have no outs. There is literally 0 reason to make that option harder to reach by requiring more mana requirements from krasis. I can't tell you how many times Ive had no other outs to win than a T4 twin combo. Krasis undeniably makes T4 twin a harder possibility in an appreciable number of scenarios. While doing that, he adds 1 power. Not to mention, he has no evasion, and he can't tap lands. The card is without a doubt worse than pester mite. There is no reason to play him.
If you regularly have no outs other than t4 twin combo, then you are playing this deck very much in the wrong way, or you need to work on your decision making. I get those games happen, but you shouldn't have an overwhelming majority of games where you're dead if you don't twin them on turn 4.
Im not saying its an overwhelming majority, but its enough to not cripple yourself in those situations. Playing G means we have a more painful mana base than UR twin. Against Affinity/Burn where we are racing to combo them out, that extra shock damage could often mean game on turn 3/4. Krasis is a very very minimal clock gain in our deck with countless downsides. He doesn't fly, he can't tap or untap lands, and he costs 1UG instead of 2U. If they printed another exarch except his mana was 1UG, it wouldn't even be an argument that he was strictly worse than the 2U version. So why the hell is an argument that Krasis' mana requirement isn't strictly worse than 2U? Jesus.
Im not saying its an overwhelming majority, but its enough to not cripple yourself in those situations. Playing G means we have a more painful mana base than UR twin. Against Affinity/Burn where we are racing to combo them out, that extra shock damage could often mean game on turn 3/4. Krasis is a very very minimal clock gain in our deck with countless downsides. He doesn't fly, he can't tap or untap lands, and he costs 1UG instead of 2U. If they printed another exarch except his mana was 1UG, it wouldn't even be an argument that he was strictly worse than the 2U version. So why the hell is an argument that Krasis' mana requirement isn't strictly worse than 2U? Jesus.
I think the argument is mostly pointing out how narrow your line of thinking is. Here is the other side of what you are saying. "Sometimes racing decks with damage and burn is literally my only out, and 3/3 body reduces the clock by 4 turns vs an exarch. Why would anyone play a 1/4 when they could play a 3/3?" or "Why play a X/1 when you could be playing X/4 and X/3?"
Also your logic is advocating that we must play 4 splinter twins or even 4 twins and a kiki , we have to combo
Not at all what Im advocating. Where the hell did I say that? A turn 3 creature isn't going to help us win a race, fyi. Play it if you want, but you will lose more percentage points than you'll gain.
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1 Bounding Krasis
4 Deceiver Exarch
1 Pestermite
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Vendilion Clique
Creatures [15]
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
1 Roast
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Splinter Twin
Spells [23]
1 Breeding Pool
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Wooded Foothills
Lands [22]
SIDEBOARD
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Negate
1 Roast
1 Spellskite
1 Thragtusk
I've been wondering why no one has even mentioned using Garruk Relentless or Garruk Wildspeaker. With Relentless, we would get cheap wolves, and possibly blow up small creatures like Goblin Guides, Mana dorks, etc, and if he flips, we get a tutor for half our combo.
With Wildespeaker, we would get a Planeswalker on 4 and enough mana to remand whatever they play on their turn.
Either way they're getting punished by adding planeswalker to our graveyard, allowing Goyf to be an even bigger threat.
I'm going to be testing this in my 75 this weekend, there is a qualifer coming up soon at my LGS so I want to see if I can use this tech to my advantage, or if it's just bad.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Pestermite
3 Deceiver Exarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dispel
1 Spell Snare
1 Electrolyze
1 Dismember
Enchantments
3 Splinter Twin
Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Spellskite
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Roast
1 Nature's Claim
Just grab stomping ground when you are going to combo off with him? Whining about having green mana is odd considering this is a RUG thread.
@ Torlash. A poster above or maybe on page 3 has some great initial results with sarkhan unbroken. He does cost one more mana but the upside is drawing cards and making 4/4 fliers. It does warm my heart seeing all the value creatures you are running
Well I think Krasis might be good with all of these Kolaghan's Commands, forked bolt, pyroclasm, electrolyze around.
I'm 50/50 on Krasis. 3 toughness is a lot less than 4, in terms of self-protection for comboing off. And while 3/3 is a decent body, modern is kind of a world of tiny creatures or huge creatures, so it's in a bit of an awkward spot on the beatdown plan. Maybe more of a sideboard card in typical RUG builds.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
Similarly, Grixis only has double Bolt or Cryptic bounce to remove it. Late game, you're likely able to play around Mana Leak to get it to resolve, only Cryptic is going to give you too much trouble.
With so many Kolaghan's Command, Terminate decks running around I think this is one of the best options to combat these grindy midrange decks now that no one is playing Path. I'd recommend everyone who anticipates being paired up against RBx throw one or two in their sideboard.
I think the argument is mostly pointing out how narrow your line of thinking is. Here is the other side of what you are saying. "Sometimes racing decks with damage and burn is literally my only out, and 3/3 body reduces the clock by 4 turns vs an exarch. Why would anyone play a 1/4 when they could play a 3/3?" or "Why play a X/1 when you could be playing X/4 and X/3?"
Also your logic is advocating that we must play 4 splinter twins or even 4 twins and a kiki , we have to combo