Paying 6 mana to destroy all artifact seems irelevant against afinity
Better than vandlebkast (6 mana)
Why do you keep saying this? It's 5 mana. That's a world of difference.
Anger won't save you from an Etched Champion, Arcbound Ravager, Cranial Plating, an active Steel Overseer or Spellskite. Damnation won't save you from Plating. Vandalblast is flexible. It can destroy a plating early, hit a Ravager or take down a Spellskite without much trouble. Then, if you manage to get off a couple bolts and make it to five lands, Vandalblast is essentially game over. It also plays nicely with Snapcaster.
Affinity is best when people leave their hate at home. People get complacent and assume that some bolts and Kommands can take care of it, when the truth is that the deck is monstrously fast and efficient. Going into a large tournament with no dedicated Affinity hate cards maindeck is a fantastic way to get rolled by them.
Breathe in the air. Don't be afraid to care. Leave...
As for other discussions:
23 lands because we want to hit 4-5 lands by turn 4/5 generally, and we really want to hit the first 3 lands without having to dig too hard. Lands like Loothouse are a bonus. You could play 22 lands in something like RUG or maybe UR if you are less mana hungry, but the Grixis decks are generally pretty greedy on mana. We want 3 colors by turn 3 generally, and often we want 2 black sources and 3 red sources, plus at least 1 basic Island in play by the midgame. 23 lands is just safer.
@neckfire, Vandalblast (5 mana to overload) is generally better for us than Spree, and Shatterstorm is better than both. Reason being, it's generally very easy to hold off Affinity for us until the midgame, when a hard sweeper can then clean up everything but their manlands. Etched Champ is one of the few cards we struggle with, so a sweeper is clutch here. Also at best, Spree might be a 3-for-1 in the midgame, but really is unlikely to be better than a 2-for-1, and you have 3 Kommands to do that job better at instant speed already. You also have Damnation. Not just Damnation, but Staticaster, Lavaman, Pia/Kiran, Olivia, so you hardly need more Affinity hate. In fact, I think you already have too much in your board for Affinity and other weenie decks, and your weakness is toward grindier matchups. I don't love Lavaman or Staticaster when you already have 3 sweepers and extra removal in board, and I'd consider making those Blood Moons or something else relevant against BGx and other grindfest decks. Not to mention you're a little weak against Bloom and other big mana combo.
Deprive is great, but it sets you back, which is problematic in this deck. But you are already light on counters, so I can understand the 1 hard counter. Counterflux might be better though, as it's unbeatable when you draw it.
Maindeck I think you're too heavy on discard, and I'd really recommend the 4th Remand and 2nd Pest. Jace is probably great, haven't tested him yet, but you could probably shave a copy of him too. I generally agree that more combo is better, but 5/3 or 6/4 is generally the ideal splits, not so much 5/4.
I'd look to squeeze in another big threat for mirrors and Jund decks into your board.
Hello all, new member here. This is the current list I'm running, however I'm still fine tuning it here and there. I was wondering what other people's thoughts are. I'm open to any suggestions or critiques. Also, I'm running Flooded Strand in the list until I can get my hands on some more copies of Scalding Tarn.
Looks solid to me. Cryptic has been giving me fits of late, as the UUU for whatever reason has conflicted with the rest of what I want to do, I've dropped it for now main deck, and put it in the side online.
I'm heading to a new store on Friday, and am going with something like the following. Not sure what to expect so something of an open sideboard? Do I need more GY hate? 2 x Relic of Progenitus?
A single easy to fetch Stomping Ground has been sufficient in the past. I'm not tied to the card at all, it's just something from my Naya decks I'm sure.
I recently built this deck on MTGO to play in the modern leagues with. So far I've been doing average (3-2 all 3 times). I've been playing around with different iterations of the main deck, and they all feel quite good, but I've seen a lot of variance in sideboards, which has been causing me some trouble.
Firstly, I've noticed most sideboards lack graveyard hate. Are there simply not enough relevant strategies to dedicate slots, or are we just trying to combo before they get online?
I'm currently running Blood Moon (1 main 1 side) but I've had mixed results. I've noticed some lists aren't running any at all. It also causes a lot of awkward situations for my own spells even when I land it in a decent spot. In what matchups are blood moon worth the sideboard slots? It also seems to be on people's radar a lot of the time, so maybe it's just not good right now for the meta? It could also be my list is leaning heavier on B than lists that have blood moon, creating more awkwardness.
Last thing, what's the best sideboard plan for control decks? Current I'm sideboarding out most of the combo for the control cards, but I haven't had much success with that, and to me that feels weird because at the end of the day they're going to be the better control deck. Should I instead be just focusing on comboing off ASAP and just bring in more protection?
Decklist for reference (Strands are a price concession, though I own physical tarns if I ever need to take it to an event):
It enters the battlefield tapped and dies to Bolt. I've seen some people run it, but I'd rather have my mana enter untapped at all times.
I'm currently running Blood Moon (1 main 1 side) but I've had mixed results. I've noticed some lists aren't running any at all. It also causes a lot of awkward situations for my own spells even when I land it in a decent spot. In what matchups are blood moon worth the sideboard slots? It also seems to be on people's radar a lot of the time, so maybe it's just not good right now for the meta? It could also be my list is leaning heavier on B than lists that have blood moon, creating more awkwardness.
Maindeck Moon is Grixis is kind of bad. I would default to both in the side. You bring them in against decks that can't beat them like Bloom, Abzan and Tron to a lesser extent.
Last thing, what's the best sideboard plan for control decks? Current I'm sideboarding out most of the combo for the control cards, but I haven't had much success with that, and to me that feels weird because at the end of the day they're going to be the better control deck. Should I instead be just focusing on comboing off ASAP and just bring in more protection?
No, don't go all in on the combo against control. They're going to bring in even more counters and kill against you, which means you'll get repeatedly 2 for 1'ed whenever you go to combo.
I would just leave in maybe a misers twin and only a couple combo creatures in post board against control. Yes, you have a worse version of their deck. Accept that, and do your best to make your opponent scared. Their cards may be overall better than yours, but if they constantly have to use their mana inefficiently, or hold off on their removal because they're afraid, then you can leverage that into an advantage.
I'm thinking about pivoting back to this deck for GP Pitt as the meta shifts more towards Junk.
I was playing it a lot before the new Jace was added (even with IoK!), so I'm very familiar with those lists. I tried a list with 3 Jace, some discard, and 0 Cryptics and it just felt really clunky.
I look and it seems like some people have just added Jace but kept much of the counter package instead of going the more proactive discard/removal package.
I'm wondering what the logic/thoughts are behind these lists?
I'm not sure if it is better. I've certainly been enjoying it though. Discard into Jace is an incredibly good opening against a lot of decks. The discard feels great for informing me on what role I need to take that particular game (control, beat down, combo) and of course lets you punch holes in their game plan that you can exploit (something I thing we are really good at).
The jace gives additional turn 2 plays, and the merfolk looter half of the Jace is also incredibly good. (I think we all know the power of that because of lighthouse). Untapping him with a combo piece and looting again can be relevant at times too. And of course additional snapcaster effects are great, and the -2/0 is nice for racing or making it difficult to get through big butt Tasigur and exarch.
Of course having everything at instant speed in the standard list is great. It makes it easy for you and stressful for your opponent when twin does that. So the sorcery speed plays of jace and discard dont follow that, but I think they are powerful enough to justify it.
I'm not sure if it is better. I've certainly been enjoying it though. Discard into Jace is an incredibly good opening against a lot of decks. The discard feels great for informing me on what role I need to take that particular game (control, beat down, combo) and of course lets you punch holes in their game plan that you can exploit (something I thing we are really good at).
The jace gives additional turn 2 plays, and the merfolk looter half of the Jace is also incredibly good. (I think we all know the power of that because of lighthouse). Untapping him with a combo piece and looting again can be relevant at times too. And of course additional snapcaster effects are great, and the -2/0 is nice for racing or making it difficult to get through big butt Tasigur and exarch.
Of course having everything at instant speed in the standard list is great. It makes it easy for you and stressful for your opponent when twin does that. So the sorcery speed plays of jace and discard dont follow that, but I think they are powerful enough to justify it.
Just my thoughts, hopefully that helps.
As always, you answered very well to my question;; Thank you tjd2191 !! it helped me alot
A single easy to fetch Stomping Ground has been sufficient in the past. I'm not tied to the card at all, it's just something from my Naya decks I'm sure.
Yea I would cut the green. We have Kolaghans Command, which is slightly worse than grudge against Bots but obviously much more maindeckable, and probably still better against stuff like Tron, Lanterns, or Bloom. With the third command in the board, plus however many sweepers, explosives, and Tims you want, we don't need grudge. Our nana is already tight enough. 4 colors even in the splash is unnecessary and too risky. Affinity is also one of our best matchups anyway.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Something like 6 matches tonight, and feeling much better going URb.
1 the discard did very little, I think it's gotta go sideboard at best.
2 the Cryptics (2) main board where clutch any game I didn't win on turn 4.
3 Dropped to a single Kolaghan's Command main, and another in the board.
4 Tasigur (2) went side, come in for grindy/control games if needed.
5 Anger of the Gods (2) out of the board saved me against boggles and sisters.
6 Keranos wins games against Grixis anything.
7 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would have won me the last match I played but I got cute and forgot to mill once. Then ran out of time.
It's pretty rare I feel I have no outs at this point, will see how FNM goes.
Something like 6 matches tonight, and feeling much better going URb.
1 the discard did very little, I think it's gotta go sideboard at best.
2 the Cryptics (2) main board where clutch any game I didn't win on turn 4.
3 Dropped to a single Kolaghan's Command main, and another in the board.
4 Tasigur (2) went side, come in for grindy/control games if needed.
5 Anger of the Gods (2) out of the board saved me against boggles and sisters.
6 Keranos wins games against Grixis anything.
7 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would have won me the last match I played but I got cute and forgot to mill once. Then ran out of time.
1. Discard for me has been mixed as well, but I think overall it's worked well. There are games where you get to snag the one non-redundant piece from your opponents hand T1 (be that cantrip, removal, threat). That said, discard is always going to be weak to a right topdeck. I was playing against a Restore Balance deck, and discarded an Ardent Plea only to have them rip one off the top and Armageddon me anyway. Counters hedge better against topdecks, but I think the reward is enough to justify the risks. T1 IoK with T3 Snap+IoK is great. The information is also invaluable.
2. I've been running 0-1, but I have to agree that G1 I find myself in spots where I'd want a cryptic. Postboard though I find myself wanting them a lot less.
4. Tasigur's been helpful with the discard heavy lists since you can preemptively strip answers while fueling delve, but otherwise he has been pretty average.
5. It also is great against Dredgevine! I'm curious though, wouldn't boggles/sisters creatures get out of 3 toughness range fairly fast?
6. I've been running up against a lot of Twin mirrors, and I'm wondering if there's any useful sideboard tech against a resolved Keranos here. It doesn't seem like Grixis colors has anything that exiles enchantments though.
7. I'll have to try her out. She seems like a great threat in the mirror where there aren't really any ways to kill a planeswalker efficiently, and she's low cost enough that she can you find a turn to sneak her in under permission.
Yeah Keranos was interesting, I only have the single in the list, and it won me 2 games, while my opponent got one online in a different match, and it won it for him! I know people went cold on the card a bit, but if you are playing more a controlling game 2 or game 3, I think getting him out is huge advantage.
As for dealing with him, or any other problem enchantment, I think thats another argument for keeping Cryptic's in the list, I was able to drive some pretty solid advantage play's on the back of cryptic and Dispel last night (2 main, 1 side) and unless you are running something like Grixis Charm the Bounce on cryptic is about all I can think of off the top of my head for problem enchantments that have resolved.
As for counters, how many are in your main deck to get the game 1 benefit, or do you bring in multiples game 2/3?
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Why do you keep saying this? It's 5 mana. That's a world of difference.
Anger won't save you from an Etched Champion, Arcbound Ravager, Cranial Plating, an active Steel Overseer or Spellskite. Damnation won't save you from Plating. Vandalblast is flexible. It can destroy a plating early, hit a Ravager or take down a Spellskite without much trouble. Then, if you manage to get off a couple bolts and make it to five lands, Vandalblast is essentially game over. It also plays nicely with Snapcaster.
Affinity is best when people leave their hate at home. People get complacent and assume that some bolts and Kommands can take care of it, when the truth is that the deck is monstrously fast and efficient. Going into a large tournament with no dedicated Affinity hate cards maindeck is a fantastic way to get rolled by them.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Hello troll.
Breathe in the air. Don't be afraid to care. Leave...
As for other discussions:
23 lands because we want to hit 4-5 lands by turn 4/5 generally, and we really want to hit the first 3 lands without having to dig too hard. Lands like Loothouse are a bonus. You could play 22 lands in something like RUG or maybe UR if you are less mana hungry, but the Grixis decks are generally pretty greedy on mana. We want 3 colors by turn 3 generally, and often we want 2 black sources and 3 red sources, plus at least 1 basic Island in play by the midgame. 23 lands is just safer.
@neckfire, Vandalblast (5 mana to overload) is generally better for us than Spree, and Shatterstorm is better than both. Reason being, it's generally very easy to hold off Affinity for us until the midgame, when a hard sweeper can then clean up everything but their manlands. Etched Champ is one of the few cards we struggle with, so a sweeper is clutch here. Also at best, Spree might be a 3-for-1 in the midgame, but really is unlikely to be better than a 2-for-1, and you have 3 Kommands to do that job better at instant speed already. You also have Damnation. Not just Damnation, but Staticaster, Lavaman, Pia/Kiran, Olivia, so you hardly need more Affinity hate. In fact, I think you already have too much in your board for Affinity and other weenie decks, and your weakness is toward grindier matchups. I don't love Lavaman or Staticaster when you already have 3 sweepers and extra removal in board, and I'd consider making those Blood Moons or something else relevant against BGx and other grindfest decks. Not to mention you're a little weak against Bloom and other big mana combo.
Deprive is great, but it sets you back, which is problematic in this deck. But you are already light on counters, so I can understand the 1 hard counter. Counterflux might be better though, as it's unbeatable when you draw it.
Maindeck I think you're too heavy on discard, and I'd really recommend the 4th Remand and 2nd Pest. Jace is probably great, haven't tested him yet, but you could probably shave a copy of him too. I generally agree that more combo is better, but 5/3 or 6/4 is generally the ideal splits, not so much 5/4.
I'd look to squeeze in another big threat for mirrors and Jund decks into your board.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
Creatures (11)
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pestermite
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Splinter Twin
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
2 Spell Snare
2 Dispel
1 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
1 Dispel
2 Dragon's Claw
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Negate
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Spellskite
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
I'm heading to a new store on Friday, and am going with something like the following. Not sure what to expect so something of an open sideboard? Do I need more GY hate? 2 x Relic of Progenitus?
5 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Stomping Ground
2 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
//Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deceiver Exarch
1 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
//Counters
2 Dispel
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
1 Terminate
1 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Electrolyze
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Serum Visions
2 Roast
2 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Rending Volley
1 Dispel
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Negate
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spirits
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Edit: Going over the list which was by memory I do seem to have a fair bit of artifact hate.
Spirits
I think the problem is we aren't in green my friend.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Spirits
I recently built this deck on MTGO to play in the modern leagues with. So far I've been doing average (3-2 all 3 times). I've been playing around with different iterations of the main deck, and they all feel quite good, but I've seen a lot of variance in sideboards, which has been causing me some trouble.
Firstly, I've noticed most sideboards lack graveyard hate. Are there simply not enough relevant strategies to dedicate slots, or are we just trying to combo before they get online?
I'm currently running Blood Moon (1 main 1 side) but I've had mixed results. I've noticed some lists aren't running any at all. It also causes a lot of awkward situations for my own spells even when I land it in a decent spot. In what matchups are blood moon worth the sideboard slots? It also seems to be on people's radar a lot of the time, so maybe it's just not good right now for the meta? It could also be my list is leaning heavier on B than lists that have blood moon, creating more awkwardness.
Last thing, what's the best sideboard plan for control decks? Current I'm sideboarding out most of the combo for the control cards, but I haven't had much success with that, and to me that feels weird because at the end of the day they're going to be the better control deck. Should I instead be just focusing on comboing off ASAP and just bring in more protection?
Decklist for reference (Strands are a price concession, though I own physical tarns if I ever need to take it to an event):
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Desolate Lighthouse
Creatures (13)
4 Deceiver Exarch
1 Pestermite
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Splinter Twin
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Remand
1 Dispel
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Blood Moon
1 Cryptic Command
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the gods
1 Spellskite
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Blood Moon
1 Murderous Cut
1 Tribute to hunger
1 Mulldrifter
1 Glen elendra archmage
1 Negate
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Go for the throat
Maindeck Moon is Grixis is kind of bad. I would default to both in the side. You bring them in against decks that can't beat them like Bloom, Abzan and Tron to a lesser extent.
No, don't go all in on the combo against control. They're going to bring in even more counters and kill against you, which means you'll get repeatedly 2 for 1'ed whenever you go to combo.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I was playing it a lot before the new Jace was added (even with IoK!), so I'm very familiar with those lists. I tried a list with 3 Jace, some discard, and 0 Cryptics and it just felt really clunky.
I look and it seems like some people have just added Jace but kept much of the counter package instead of going the more proactive discard/removal package.
I'm wondering what the logic/thoughts are behind these lists?
Currently playing:
- URx Twin in Modern
#RIPTwinhttp://www.twitch.tv/trei_gamer
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
The jace gives additional turn 2 plays, and the merfolk looter half of the Jace is also incredibly good. (I think we all know the power of that because of lighthouse). Untapping him with a combo piece and looting again can be relevant at times too. And of course additional snapcaster effects are great, and the -2/0 is nice for racing or making it difficult to get through big butt Tasigur and exarch.
Of course having everything at instant speed in the standard list is great. It makes it easy for you and stressful for your opponent when twin does that. So the sorcery speed plays of jace and discard dont follow that, but I think they are powerful enough to justify it.
Just my thoughts, hopefully that helps.
As always, you answered very well to my question;; Thank you tjd2191 !! it helped me alot
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Yea I would cut the green. We have Kolaghans Command, which is slightly worse than grudge against Bots but obviously much more maindeckable, and probably still better against stuff like Tron, Lanterns, or Bloom. With the third command in the board, plus however many sweepers, explosives, and Tims you want, we don't need grudge. Our nana is already tight enough. 4 colors even in the splash is unnecessary and too risky. Affinity is also one of our best matchups anyway.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I do think I want to main deck some Inquisition of Kozilek though, and drop the Gitaxian Probe/Peek to be a bit more proactive while getting information.
I'll work out an updated list later.
Spirits
1 the discard did very little, I think it's gotta go sideboard at best.
2 the Cryptics (2) main board where clutch any game I didn't win on turn 4.
3 Dropped to a single Kolaghan's Command main, and another in the board.
4 Tasigur (2) went side, come in for grindy/control games if needed.
5 Anger of the Gods (2) out of the board saved me against boggles and sisters.
6 Keranos wins games against Grixis anything.
7 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would have won me the last match I played but I got cute and forgot to mill once. Then ran out of time.
It's pretty rare I feel I have no outs at this point, will see how FNM goes.
Spirits
1. Discard for me has been mixed as well, but I think overall it's worked well. There are games where you get to snag the one non-redundant piece from your opponents hand T1 (be that cantrip, removal, threat). That said, discard is always going to be weak to a right topdeck. I was playing against a Restore Balance deck, and discarded an Ardent Plea only to have them rip one off the top and Armageddon me anyway. Counters hedge better against topdecks, but I think the reward is enough to justify the risks. T1 IoK with T3 Snap+IoK is great. The information is also invaluable.
2. I've been running 0-1, but I have to agree that G1 I find myself in spots where I'd want a cryptic. Postboard though I find myself wanting them a lot less.
4. Tasigur's been helpful with the discard heavy lists since you can preemptively strip answers while fueling delve, but otherwise he has been pretty average.
5. It also is great against Dredgevine! I'm curious though, wouldn't boggles/sisters creatures get out of 3 toughness range fairly fast?
6. I've been running up against a lot of Twin mirrors, and I'm wondering if there's any useful sideboard tech against a resolved Keranos here. It doesn't seem like Grixis colors has anything that exiles enchantments though.
7. I'll have to try her out. She seems like a great threat in the mirror where there aren't really any ways to kill a planeswalker efficiently, and she's low cost enough that she can you find a turn to sneak her in under permission.
As for dealing with him, or any other problem enchantment, I think thats another argument for keeping Cryptic's in the list, I was able to drive some pretty solid advantage play's on the back of cryptic and Dispel last night (2 main, 1 side) and unless you are running something like Grixis Charm the Bounce on cryptic is about all I can think of off the top of my head for problem enchantments that have resolved.
As for counters, how many are in your main deck to get the game 1 benefit, or do you bring in multiples game 2/3?
Spirits