Okay, I'll see what I can do about the vials(I might end up in GW hatebears for a tiny bit), thought I figured that I'd talk about some of the
other stuff: First-thanks for the help In my testing the lands were fine without fetches and I was able to cast the flip lili when needed,
who also was amazing-I would evoke shriekmaw which would then die and flip her(happened surprisingly often). Shriekmaw seemed pretty good too and I
was never sad to see it in the limited testing I did. Pack rat was pretty great too I should say..
Thanks for the reply and sorry I am very tired so I may not have made sense. But again thanks for the help
Edit: Also I don't know how I forgot tidehollow sculler :/
@2imu I know you were replying to Elliot and that you already said it before, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you about CoCo. Resto is more consistent, but less powerful. Resto can not bring you back into the game or just end it the way coco can. I'm aware that you can just hit nothing with Coco, or hit a legend that you already have in play, or even just hierarch, but you can use it in so many situations. It gives the deck a lot more of an ability to do surprise attacks and interact with people at flash speed. You can do it during combat to annihilate their forces, at EOT to take away stuff with wisp, in response to searches, in response to kill spells, or at the end of their turn for surprise attackers. It's versatility is unrivaled. It can be a loose cannon, but when I have to make a decision as to play it or something else, I always find myself doing math and seeing what I've already seen so that I can have the best guess as to what I can hit. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying resto is bad. Not at all. My GW list runs a 2/2 split of resto Coco, but CoCo is a very powerful card and I don't think you can arbitrarily say that Resto is better. It's a card that shapes your list. If my GW list ran Wingmare and thalia, I would not touch Coco, but you have to make that decision as to what direction you want your deck to go in.
Personally, I think Coco is the superior choice right now because of the sheer amount of terminates I've been seeing. At least with online play, I'd rather have several somethings to be killed against that kind of deck and against a creature deck, it can stop them from going wide.
I can respect your wanting to go with just resto, but I have to put my opinion out there so that we don't all accept that resto is always better than Coco.
Sorry for the late response. I do read this thread every day, but I don’t often have the time to sit down and formulate responses. Please don’t feel that I’ve neglected your comments.
I will say that I do not entirely disagree with you. You are right in that Restoration Angel is more consistent (much more so), but less (inherently) powerful than Collected Company. And you are correct that Resto cannot bring you back into the game the way CoCo can (or is likely to, re: consistency), such as from an empty board state.
However, with regards to your comment on CoCo's versatility being unrivaled, I feel that either you're misusing the word "versatility", or you're being biased. I will agree that CoCo has a much wider range of possible outcomes (in other words, a much, much higher potential ceiling), and in that way it opens you up to more (potentially better) possibilities than is possible with Restoration Angel. But that does not make it more "versatile" perse, because it comes with a higher range of variance. I will address this point further below.
I myself have played with 2 copies of CoCo in my deck for a month or two, up until recently. And I’m obviously not saying CoCo is bad. Every time I resolved it, it ranged from decent to completely bonkers, and that’s no surprise. But as good as the card is, CoCo does not shine nearly as bright in Death & Taxes the same way it does in Elves or some other CoCo-based deck. This is because (I believe) that D&T is a deck that wants/needs specific answers at specific moments in the game. This is unless you’re playing a synergy-heavy value-oriented deck (presumably with things like Blade Splicer, Kitchen Finks maybe), in which case I’d argue that maybe you’re better off playing Abzan CoCo or something. It’s in this way that I had mentioned in a previous post that how good CoCo is is almost a “trap” at times. As good as the card is, quite often, it does not do for you what you need it to do at specific moments in the game (again, not actually versatile - at least not much moreso than Resto).
I will concede that with Restoration Angel, you are limited to working with what you already have access to on the board, while CoCo allows you to dig deeper into your deck. So that is a very fundamental difference in the way the two cards operate – so I suppose one could make an argument that you could build a deck that leans more heavily on CoCo and works with/around it better, but again, not sure if that's ideal without slippery-sloping into a different deck.
Now, with regards to the list of things you can do with CoCo – you can conceivably do all those things with Restoration Angel as well.
You can use it during combat to surprise block
You can use it at end of turn to re-use a Flickerwisp trigger (I’ve used this to win games when it was my only out. Granted, you'd need to already have a Flickerwisp on board, but by the same argument, with CoCo you'd need to actually have Flickerwisp in the top 6 cards of your deck, which you don't know if you do or don't. At least with Restoration Angel you clearly know if you do or don't have a Flickerwisp available without having to chance it.)
You can blink a Leonin Arbiter that they’ve already paid for once to force them to pay a second time (much less common, admittedly, but again, with CoCo you're banking on hitting an Arbiter/Mindcensor)
You can use it in response to kill spells to save whatever they’re targeting
You can use it at the end of their turn for surprise attackers.
These are literally all the uses you listed, and they all apply to Restoration Angel as well, without being occasionally subject to the Thalia tax.
My last comment is with regards to how CoCo can bring you back into a game. And this is true, I’m not going to contend this. CoCo is a way of generating raw card advantage out of nowhere, especially in a scenario where your board is empty, or/and your hand is empty as well. But I will, however, make a case that Restoration Angel, with the amount of control it gives you (which is the best thing about it), gives you a better chance of not having to play from behind in the first place. Not always possible, unfortunately.
In any case, like you, I’m not saying that Resto is outright better than CoCo completely out of context. I was simply making a case that 1) from my own experiences 2) in Death & Taxes, or at least in the context of what I perceive to be the D&T playstyle/philosophy, Restoration Angel is a better choice than CoCo. I feel like I've acknowledged CoCo's pro's and have done a good assessment of comparing it with Restoration Angel. Though I don’t think you need to worry that “we don’t all accept that resto is always better than CoCo”, since I think I’m the only one who’s made that contention (other people have mainly strongly supported Restoration Angel in mono-white). But if I'm mistaken, my apologies for missing on them.
And while I may not be able to convince you of my views, I think this Resto-vs-CoCo conversation was a valuable dialogue to have, since I think it’s something that hasn’t been entirely beaten to death in this 240-page thread.
@ASteelers Midget: The swords combo greatly with Mirran Crusader. It gives him protection from 4 different colours, plus since he has double strike, the trigger happens twice. So with sword of fire and ice, he deals 2 damage in first strike, 2 damage trigger, draw a card. Then the same thing happens in the normal damage step. So that's 8 damage and you draw 2 cards.
So I am planning on playing this list today. I tried out 4 Mangaras before and it was fantastic, I then added 2 restos and they worked amazingly and now I am going for maximum greed and just playing the playset.
So this build is fantastic. I highly recommend trying it out. I played 8 games vs burn before the tournament (3 pre and 5 post) and won 6/8 of them (2 pre and 4 post). It was a 3 round tournament and I played Jund (2-1), G/R Tron (2-1) and Jund (2-0). The only change I would make as of now would be to take out the Crusaders in the board. I didn't even want them in the Jund matchup and that was what they were in the board for!
So I am planning on playing this list today. I tried out 4 Mangaras before and it was fantastic, I then added 2 restos and they worked amazingly and now I am going for maximum greed and just playing the playset.
So this build is fantastic. I highly recommend trying it out. I played 8 games vs burn before the tournament (3 pre and 5 post) and won 6/8 of them (2 pre and 4 post). It was a 3 round tournament and I played Jund (2-1), G/R Tron (2-1) and Jund (2-0). The only change I would make as of now would be to take out the Crusaders in the board. I didn't even want them in the Jund matchup and that was what they were in the board for!
I'm stunned!Congrats!
Could you explain your various MUs? I'd love to hear about what cards shined and which were a bust. Also, if you felt you were missing anything? SB or Main.
Looking at the list, it seems particularly week to creature-aggressive strategies. Have you played against anything like zoo, merfolk, or elves with it?
Was 4 canopies too much? What about Mangara? I can't imagine him working against such control heavy decks like Jund/Junk. What did you tend to target? Did you wait to flicker him so you could get a second use, or was it mostly, 1 for 1? And the microsplash for only hierarch?
Where did you bring in King Kitty?
Can you successfully even side in a card like dismember or sunlance? The tax on it seems too high.
@ 2imu Sorry for that late reply. Like you I get to look through the D&T thread daily, but have to force time to sit down to reply.
-At the RPTQ, the UWR player had been playing the standard Bolt/Path/Helix/Snap/ Resto/ Clique Plan. I think it may have been slightly more midrange with the inclusion of Geists too. I don't find the matchup very difficult, especially with a T! Vial. Obviously that shuts off a lot of their cards. Spells kite is also a power house, mixed with the LD package cutting them off red.
-In the Living end match, Eidolon of Rhetoric did see the battlefield. Thalia is already a monster against them, since it forces the opponent to spend 5 mana casting their combo. But Eidolon also helps stops the spells that come off from cascade too, and was really happy with it's performance.
-Little Kid Junk is inherently a rough matchup. Along with all green creature based decks. It's forcing me to put Mirran Crusader in the main, I'm still playing around with the numbers.
-Affinity is surprisingly getting to be an easier and easier matchup. During the RPTQ I was fortunate just to see all my fliers. Post RPTQ I've been testing a version with 3 Revoker in the main, and the matchup feels VERY favorable now. Especially with 3 Kataki in the board.
-Kiki Cord was a bit unfortunate. I've beaten it in the past, but that generally is off the back of Arbiters and Mindcensor. Having two Mindcensor might be the right way to go. Wall of Omens does suck, especially with Blade Splicers, instead of Mirran Crusader. I think the Crusader's just are a better answer over all, and am excited with their inclusion.
-I'd suggest Eidolon of Rhetoric over the Ethersworn canonist. Just because it also comes in against Snapcaster.dec, and is obviously very bolt resistant.
- Blade Splicer vs. Mirran Crusader -- I'm considering a 1/3 split in favor of the crusader is best.
- The merits of Phyrexian Revoker - I'll admit, it's not a powerful threat on the surface, BUT against bad match-ups its doing a lot of powerful work. I'm running it as a 3 of currently, but will most likely keep in at least 2 for GP Pittsburgh. I think it deserves more consideration from the thread, and am surprised more people aren't running it.
- I do miss Resto. In testing I've also come to really like keeping vials at 2 and 3 too though. Sometimes you just don't see a 4th non-utility land ( as I'm sure you've done) and are forced to tick it up. It's not a good argument to cut the Resto, but it's something to bring up.
-The biggest difference in Jund for me now was landing a crusader after they've exhausted their bolts. Crusader is too much of a silver bullet against them.
Okay, I'll see what I can do about the vials(I might end up in GW hatebears for a tiny bit), thought I figured that I'd talk about some of the
other stuff: First-thanks for the help In my testing the lands were fine without fetches and I was able to cast the flip lili when needed,
who also was amazing-I would evoke shriekmaw which would then die and flip her(happened surprisingly often). Shriekmaw seemed pretty good too and I
was never sad to see it in the limited testing I did. Pack rat was pretty great too I should say..
Thanks for the reply and sorry I am very tired so I may not have made sense. But again thanks for the help
Edit: Also I don't know how I forgot tidehollow sculler :/
I'm not sure how I feel about Shriekmaw, It doesn't hit Tasigur/Rhino/Affinity, but it does help the Merfolk/Naya/Elves matchup. I won't run it because I'm running Dark Confidant in my list, but let me know how it works for you. At least for regular DnT I don't see being able to cast Lili reliably, but would like to test her in the future.
As for Pack Rat I've done a lot of testing with it, and it is stellar off a vial. 4x however is way too much from my tests, and I would go for 2-3x maindeck copies.
^A crusader with SoFaI deals 12 damage. You forgot +2/+2.
@asteelersmidget:
As for the pros and cons of playing swords: Swords generally are high risk/high reward spells for us.
Obviously, making every single of our relatively weak creatures a game ending threat is the biggest pro. If you get a sword to stick & equip you only need to attack once to get a big boost. Especially later in the game, topdecking an arbiter is much more valuable with a sword to equip it. The swords provide card advantage which we often lack. The upside of running different swords is that if you draw both of them, you don't have the same effect twice. Double Sword of Light and Shadow isn't really what you want.
Swords are not always a good thing to have. They can be clunky and can cause loss of speed if not played correctly. I see swords as a five drop (or 6 with thalia) because you want to play and equip the sword in the same turn to not give your opponent the opportunity to react. Playing and trying to equip a sword can lead to response kill your creature or response kill your sword. That means you wasted 5 mana (or more with thalia effects) and lose tempo to e.g. abrupt decay. In times of heavy artefact removal in the meta, swords are really preyed on. Kolaghan's Command is very present atm, not a good time to play a sword in my opinion.
After all, playing a sword means playing a creature less.
If you are interested in more information about the swords, read the last 4 or so pages. They were discussed there quite a bit.
PLEASE don't play a sword with that many tax effects! Your list has 4 Wingmare, 3 Thalia. You will never be able to play your sword. I recommend max. 4 Thalia effects and optimally Hierarchs for a sword list.
Thanks for the Imput. That's not the list I'm running, just a list I saw and was wondering about the swords. I may invest in them if Grixis and K-command fall off the map for a while
My Meta is currently very heavy Elves, followed by Zoo/Burn then Grixis (all Variants Control Twin and a little Delver), and Tron. If anyone has thoughts or imput to give I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm not sure on Worship and Wrath in the board for elves with 6 taxing effects, but I'm really not sure what other Elves hate I can pack.
Put a die on your library for aether vial and be conscious of search effects; opponents often instinctually start searching libraries after after cracking fetches. Good luck!
@ Postmann Big things to remember is all the modes Flickerwisp has. I'd start there.
For example: Let's stay you have a Flickerwisp out, and you bring in another flicker wisp, targeting your original flicker wisp. At the End Step, your original Flickerwisp comes into play and whatever you target won't come into play until THE NEXT end step.
Things like that are HUGE, for denying your opponent of lands, creatures, planeswalkers, etc. You get the idea.
Another example: Round 8 of an open I was playing against Grishoalbrand. They had Through the Breached a Worlspine Wurm and attacked me to 5. To Deny him of the tokens, on his end step I vialed in a Flickerwisp, and was able to attack on the ground on my turn for the win. Had I not done that, the wurm would've created 3 5/5 tokens and I would've lost on the swing back. Plays like that are pretty special, and you should rock the wisp as hard as you can.
Okay, I'll see what I can do about the vials(I might end up in GW hatebears for a tiny bit), thought I figured that I'd talk about some of the
other stuff: First-thanks for the help In my testing the lands were fine without fetches and I was able to cast the flip lili when needed,
who also was amazing-I would evoke shriekmaw which would then die and flip her(happened surprisingly often). Shriekmaw seemed pretty good too and I
was never sad to see it in the limited testing I did. Pack rat was pretty great too I should say..
Thanks for the reply and sorry I am very tired so I may not have made sense. But again thanks for the help
Edit: Also I don't know how I forgot tidehollow sculler :/
I'm not sure how I feel about Shriekmaw, It doesn't hit Tasigur/Rhino/Affinity, but it does help the Merfolk/Naya/Elves matchup. I won't run it because I'm running Dark Confidant in my list, but let me know how it works for you. At least for regular DnT I don't see being able to cast Lili reliably, but would like to test her in the future.
As for Pack Rat I've done a lot of testing with it, and it is stellar off a vial. 4x however is way too much from my tests, and I would go for 2-3x maindeck copies.
Finally Sculler is love, Sculler is life.
Thank your for the reply, I'll admit i am far from a DnT expert(I have proxied a lot of decks but always stayed in the hatebears area until the other day).
But something I have been trying lately is attempting to move away from synergy heavy strategies and more towards individually powerful plays(I brew a TON
so this is a weird concept for me) and I have found that flip lili was amazing-if you take anything away from what I have discussed this should probably
be it. On shriekmaw I believe that the midrange type strategies are a better matchup in that they tend to be very greedy and more susceptable to land
and search hate so I think that I would rather have a better matchup against the notorious elves deck-I can totally understand being worried about affinity
though. I think you may be right about cutting a pack rat-three should suffice. Lastly I wanted to say that though I made it sound like lili doesn't have
too much synergy-she really does, I was playing against amulet bloom and managed to use her ability(sacrificing her) to bring back a shriekmaw to kill his
titan(having her tick up for TWO is AMAZING!!) and winning me the game. Thanks
@ Postmann Big things to remember is all the modes Flickerwisp has. I'd start there.
For example: Let's stay you have a Flickerwisp out, and you bring in another flicker wisp, targeting your original flicker wisp. At the End Step, your original Flickerwisp comes into play and whatever you target won't come into play until THE NEXT end step.
Things like that are HUGE, for denying your opponent of lands, creatures, planeswalkers, etc. You get the idea.
Another example: Round 8 of an open I was playing against Grishoalbrand. They had Through the Breached a Worlspine Wurm and attacked me to 5. To Deny him of the tokens, on his end step I vialed in a Flickerwisp, and was able to attack on the ground on my turn for the win. Had I not done that, the wurm would've created 3 5/5 tokens and I would've lost on the swing back. Plays like that are pretty special, and you should rock the wisp as hard as you can.
I've been playing the deck a bunch online so its not necessarily the play tricks i'm worried up it's the various triggers.
Good to keep in mind having to declare the various steps though.
Blue decks got hated out by D&T decks on the first day. Then all the D&T decks lost to zoo and elves. Maybe. Probably not. I don't know.
List of surgical players:
> Jendo
> benno (1x sb, comes against all snapcaster decks, tron and every decks that has few cards to win. i'm debating if it is more useful than rip because against many decks you don't need to perma exile all cards. rip is still a bank after all...)
Yo. I've been using surgical for ages. Usually as a 2 of if I can fit it. Sometimes just as a 1 of. I feel like I often end up having to pay my own arbiter to do it, but it still can end a game. I usually bring it in against a combo deck and or a deck that uses snap.
There is a good chance I will have a 3rd Marsh Flat soonish. If I get it in time I will drop a plains for it.
The sideboard could use some tweaking still. I really want something for decks like Fish. Just not sure what will work / what to drop.
I like the look of your list. I would do the lands differently, but I tend to be a little greedy on the manabase. However, I think you should at least include a vault of the archangel it is actually really really good.
How useful do you feel having 2x pointiff in the main is?
Do you feel you consistently need 3x pack rat? I only ever really wanted 2 in my deck.
only 3 sculler? Every time I've cut down to 3 I've regretted it. I';ve heard sheepz say the same. Have you tried it at 4?
B gives you access to more kill spells like deathmark and dismember. Something like that might help for fish (I'm aware deathmark doesn't hit them, but I still like it). Strangler should help against them already. Perhaps EE?
Good work man! I want to see results with that list!
Hey guys, I just tried a UW list that was a bit different form form previous versions. I decided to try mulldrifter after somebody was saying it was the reason to splash U. I'd never seen a D&T list with it. I've been playing pauper lately and have seen it's power so I thought I'd give it a spin. It's actually the exact kind of thing we want. It has flying, can be played cheaply, draws cards, and enables flicker shenanigans. I wouldn't go over 2, but you guys ought to try it. This version of the deck feels great. I'd recommend it to y'all. It's more of a microsplash. Take a look:
Round 1 v Krak Clan combo 2-1
G1 I stomped him. He really just couldn't do anything.
G2 I thought I had it because I had kataki, but he managed to play an ugin anyway. I would have own despite ugin because of mutavault and his being at low life, but I made a mistake and thought he needed 11 planeswalker points for ugin, not 10.
G3: I made up for it by going thalia into wingmare. GG
Round 2 v USA cnotrol 1-2
G1 I had a god hand. I had vial and arbiter and wingmare and skite. I don't think he successfully killed anything.
G2 was really close, but he managed to grind it out and win when I drew 4 lands and then 2 vials.
I may have made an error in killing his colonnade with GQ and not his desolate lighthouse because I had a path in hand. I"m not sure.
This MU is much tougher when you don't start with vial.
Round 3 v zoo 2-0
Both games I landed an earlier arbiter and he only had 1 land. I had paths and GQs. Not a chance.
Round 4 V RUG twin 2-0
Game 1 I didn't actually see the twin pieces, but sort of assumed that was the case. I didn't really let him do anything anyway as I just used taxers and flickered lands for the win.
Game 2 I saw pieces of it, but I had spellskite with resto backup. He bloodmooned me, but I had 2 vials so I kept playing.
I don't know, but MUs like this feel a lot better with this version of the deck. I think it's a more defensive version of the deck than I usually play, but damn does it feel good.
Round 5 vs GBWU good stuff? 2-0
I saw damnation, mana acceleraters, finks, baneslayer angel, and kill spells. So I'm really not sure. It kinda felt like pod, but without any of the versatility.
G1 I had a splicers into splicers into flickerwisp. He had a baneslayer. It's too bad path isn't R,B, or a demon...
G2 was silly. He had a bunch of mana accelerators again. I had 2x arbiter and thalia. I used phantasmal image on arbiter. He damnationed. But then I had Skaab ruinator. He couldn't kill it.
I'm actually really happy with this version of the deck. It feels really well positioned and very consistent. Splicer felt really good in this version. I know there's been some doubts lately, but damn did she prove his worth today. Also, mirran was great MD. Even against red, I was able to protect my dudes well so he felt good. I did swap him out fairly often for Vendillion Clique, but I'd rather have him MD because I think the MUs where I want Clique more are better to begin with than the ones where I really want crusader. If you guys want some more specific SBing info I can try to remember what I did.
The G/W manabase is super greedy, so it gets shut down by bloodmoon. But with that said, G/W has excellent main deckable answers to it in Qasali Pridemage and Dromoka's command. You could also run 2-3 fetch instead of canopy to fetch basics to help.
Don't know why, but from when i started to play the GW version i'm losing 80% of matches with splinter twin, 2 time i got stomped hard by blood moon on t3 and no vial.
I'm not sure what your list looks like so it's hard to say exactly, but if you're having blood moon troubles you can add fetches and more basics to your deck as well as qasali pridemage. Wisp can also help you in a pinch with blood moon if you have vial out.
I've just started trying a mono-white list and I'm noticing I have a hard time against creature based decks such as merfolk, zoo, and stompy. Vryn Wingmare feels really bad, thalia is okay for the first strike, but the opposing creatures often have toughness more than 2. Am I playing/sideboarding the matchups wrong or is it just a bad match-up and takes practice?
EDIT: Some other things I'm noticing. Has Brimaz fallen out of favour? I'm not seeing him in many lists lately. I'm also having trouble with the 1 drop slot. Dryad Militant doesn't seem to do much in my meta-game, and Judge's Familiar doesn't do much either.
other stuff: First-thanks for the help In my testing the lands were fine without fetches and I was able to cast the flip lili when needed,
who also was amazing-I would evoke shriekmaw which would then die and flip her(happened surprisingly often). Shriekmaw seemed pretty good too and I
was never sad to see it in the limited testing I did. Pack rat was pretty great too I should say..
Thanks for the reply and sorry I am very tired so I may not have made sense. But again thanks for the help
Edit: Also I don't know how I forgot tidehollow sculler :/
Sorry for the late response. I do read this thread every day, but I don’t often have the time to sit down and formulate responses. Please don’t feel that I’ve neglected your comments.
I will say that I do not entirely disagree with you. You are right in that Restoration Angel is more consistent (much more so), but less (inherently) powerful than Collected Company. And you are correct that Resto cannot bring you back into the game the way CoCo can (or is likely to, re: consistency), such as from an empty board state.
However, with regards to your comment on CoCo's versatility being unrivaled, I feel that either you're misusing the word "versatility", or you're being biased. I will agree that CoCo has a much wider range of possible outcomes (in other words, a much, much higher potential ceiling), and in that way it opens you up to more (potentially better) possibilities than is possible with Restoration Angel. But that does not make it more "versatile" perse, because it comes with a higher range of variance. I will address this point further below.
I myself have played with 2 copies of CoCo in my deck for a month or two, up until recently. And I’m obviously not saying CoCo is bad. Every time I resolved it, it ranged from decent to completely bonkers, and that’s no surprise. But as good as the card is, CoCo does not shine nearly as bright in Death & Taxes the same way it does in Elves or some other CoCo-based deck. This is because (I believe) that D&T is a deck that wants/needs specific answers at specific moments in the game. This is unless you’re playing a synergy-heavy value-oriented deck (presumably with things like Blade Splicer, Kitchen Finks maybe), in which case I’d argue that maybe you’re better off playing Abzan CoCo or something. It’s in this way that I had mentioned in a previous post that how good CoCo is is almost a “trap” at times. As good as the card is, quite often, it does not do for you what you need it to do at specific moments in the game (again, not actually versatile - at least not much moreso than Resto).
I will concede that with Restoration Angel, you are limited to working with what you already have access to on the board, while CoCo allows you to dig deeper into your deck. So that is a very fundamental difference in the way the two cards operate – so I suppose one could make an argument that you could build a deck that leans more heavily on CoCo and works with/around it better, but again, not sure if that's ideal without slippery-sloping into a different deck.
Now, with regards to the list of things you can do with CoCo – you can conceivably do all those things with Restoration Angel as well.
My last comment is with regards to how CoCo can bring you back into a game. And this is true, I’m not going to contend this. CoCo is a way of generating raw card advantage out of nowhere, especially in a scenario where your board is empty, or/and your hand is empty as well. But I will, however, make a case that Restoration Angel, with the amount of control it gives you (which is the best thing about it), gives you a better chance of not having to play from behind in the first place. Not always possible, unfortunately.
In any case, like you, I’m not saying that Resto is outright better than CoCo completely out of context. I was simply making a case that 1) from my own experiences 2) in Death & Taxes, or at least in the context of what I perceive to be the D&T playstyle/philosophy, Restoration Angel is a better choice than CoCo. I feel like I've acknowledged CoCo's pro's and have done a good assessment of comparing it with Restoration Angel. Though I don’t think you need to worry that “we don’t all accept that resto is always better than CoCo”, since I think I’m the only one who’s made that contention (other people have mainly strongly supported Restoration Angel in mono-white). But if I'm mistaken, my apologies for missing on them.
And while I may not be able to convince you of my views, I think this Resto-vs-CoCo conversation was a valuable dialogue to have, since I think it’s something that hasn’t been entirely beaten to death in this 240-page thread.
Cheers!
GW Death and Taxes WG
So this build is fantastic. I highly recommend trying it out. I played 8 games vs burn before the tournament (3 pre and 5 post) and won 6/8 of them (2 pre and 4 post). It was a 3 round tournament and I played Jund (2-1), G/R Tron (2-1) and Jund (2-0). The only change I would make as of now would be to take out the Crusaders in the board. I didn't even want them in the Jund matchup and that was what they were in the board for!
I'm stunned!Congrats!
Could you explain your various MUs? I'd love to hear about what cards shined and which were a bust. Also, if you felt you were missing anything? SB or Main.
Looking at the list, it seems particularly week to creature-aggressive strategies. Have you played against anything like zoo, merfolk, or elves with it?
Was 4 canopies too much? What about Mangara? I can't imagine him working against such control heavy decks like Jund/Junk. What did you tend to target? Did you wait to flicker him so you could get a second use, or was it mostly, 1 for 1? And the microsplash for only hierarch?
Where did you bring in King Kitty?
Can you successfully even side in a card like dismember or sunlance? The tax on it seems too high.
Thanks!
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
-At the RPTQ, the UWR player had been playing the standard Bolt/Path/Helix/Snap/ Resto/ Clique Plan. I think it may have been slightly more midrange with the inclusion of Geists too. I don't find the matchup very difficult, especially with a T! Vial. Obviously that shuts off a lot of their cards. Spells kite is also a power house, mixed with the LD package cutting them off red.
-In the Living end match, Eidolon of Rhetoric did see the battlefield. Thalia is already a monster against them, since it forces the opponent to spend 5 mana casting their combo. But Eidolon also helps stops the spells that come off from cascade too, and was really happy with it's performance.
-Little Kid Junk is inherently a rough matchup. Along with all green creature based decks. It's forcing me to put Mirran Crusader in the main, I'm still playing around with the numbers.
-Affinity is surprisingly getting to be an easier and easier matchup. During the RPTQ I was fortunate just to see all my fliers. Post RPTQ I've been testing a version with 3 Revoker in the main, and the matchup feels VERY favorable now. Especially with 3 Kataki in the board.
-Kiki Cord was a bit unfortunate. I've beaten it in the past, but that generally is off the back of Arbiters and Mindcensor. Having two Mindcensor might be the right way to go. Wall of Omens does suck, especially with Blade Splicers, instead of Mirran Crusader. I think the Crusader's just are a better answer over all, and am excited with their inclusion.
-I'd suggest Eidolon of Rhetoric over the Ethersworn canonist. Just because it also comes in against Snapcaster.dec, and is obviously very bolt resistant.
- Blade Splicer vs. Mirran Crusader -- I'm considering a 1/3 split in favor of the crusader is best.
- The merits of Phyrexian Revoker - I'll admit, it's not a powerful threat on the surface, BUT against bad match-ups its doing a lot of powerful work. I'm running it as a 3 of currently, but will most likely keep in at least 2 for GP Pittsburgh. I think it deserves more consideration from the thread, and am surprised more people aren't running it.
- I do miss Resto. In testing I've also come to really like keeping vials at 2 and 3 too though. Sometimes you just don't see a 4th non-utility land ( as I'm sure you've done) and are forced to tick it up. It's not a good argument to cut the Resto, but it's something to bring up.
-The biggest difference in Jund for me now was landing a crusader after they've exhausted their bolts. Crusader is too much of a silver bullet against them.
I look forward to meeting you at the GP!
I'm not sure how I feel about Shriekmaw, It doesn't hit Tasigur/Rhino/Affinity, but it does help the Merfolk/Naya/Elves matchup. I won't run it because I'm running Dark Confidant in my list, but let me know how it works for you. At least for regular DnT I don't see being able to cast Lili reliably, but would like to test her in the future.
As for Pack Rat I've done a lot of testing with it, and it is stellar off a vial. 4x however is way too much from my tests, and I would go for 2-3x maindeck copies.
Finally Sculler is love, Sculler is life.
Thanks for the Imput. That's not the list I'm running, just a list I saw and was wondering about the swords. I may invest in them if Grixis and K-command fall off the map for a while
The list I'm building is this
1x Aven Mindcensor
3x Blade Splicer
4x Flickerwisp
4x Leonin Arbiter
1x Mangara of Corondor
1x Mirran Crusader
2x Restoration Angel
3x Serra Avenger
2x Spellskite
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Vryn Wingmare Lands
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Mutavault
11x Plains
3x Tectonic Edge
3x Temple of Enlightenment
4x AEther Vial
And the Sideboard
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Patrician's Scorn
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Worship
1x Wrath of God
My Meta is currently very heavy Elves, followed by Zoo/Burn then Grixis (all Variants Control Twin and a little Delver), and Tron. If anyone has thoughts or imput to give I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm not sure on Worship and Wrath in the board for elves with 6 taxing effects, but I'm really not sure what other Elves hate I can pack.
Thanks again.
For example: Let's stay you have a Flickerwisp out, and you bring in another flicker wisp, targeting your original flicker wisp. At the End Step, your original Flickerwisp comes into play and whatever you target won't come into play until THE NEXT end step.
Things like that are HUGE, for denying your opponent of lands, creatures, planeswalkers, etc. You get the idea.
Another example: Round 8 of an open I was playing against Grishoalbrand. They had Through the Breached a Worlspine Wurm and attacked me to 5. To Deny him of the tokens, on his end step I vialed in a Flickerwisp, and was able to attack on the ground on my turn for the win. Had I not done that, the wurm would've created 3 5/5 tokens and I would've lost on the swing back. Plays like that are pretty special, and you should rock the wisp as hard as you can.
Thank your for the reply, I'll admit i am far from a DnT expert(I have proxied a lot of decks but always stayed in the hatebears area until the other day).
But something I have been trying lately is attempting to move away from synergy heavy strategies and more towards individually powerful plays(I brew a TON
so this is a weird concept for me) and I have found that flip lili was amazing-if you take anything away from what I have discussed this should probably
be it. On shriekmaw I believe that the midrange type strategies are a better matchup in that they tend to be very greedy and more susceptable to land
and search hate so I think that I would rather have a better matchup against the notorious elves deck-I can totally understand being worried about affinity
though. I think you may be right about cutting a pack rat-three should suffice. Lastly I wanted to say that though I made it sound like lili doesn't have
too much synergy-she really does, I was playing against amulet bloom and managed to use her ability(sacrificing her) to bring back a shriekmaw to kill his
titan(having her tick up for TWO is AMAZING!!) and winning me the game. Thanks
I've been playing the deck a bunch online so its not necessarily the play tricks i'm worried up it's the various triggers.
Good to keep in mind having to declare the various steps though.
4x Path to Exile
2x Spellskite
3x Dark Confidant
3x Pack Rat
3x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Vryn Wingmare
2x Orzhov Pontiff
2x Wasteland Strangler
4x Flickerwisp
2x Mutavault
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Marsh Flats
4x Godless Shrine
1x Swamp
7x Plains
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x "Katakix War's Wage"
2x Lingering Souls
2x Mirran Crusader
3x Leyline of Sanctity
There is a good chance I will have a 3rd Marsh Flat soonish. If I get it in time I will drop a plains for it.
The sideboard could use some tweaking still. I really want something for decks like Fish. Just not sure what will work / what to drop.
Yo. I've been using surgical for ages. Usually as a 2 of if I can fit it. Sometimes just as a 1 of. I feel like I often end up having to pay my own arbiter to do it, but it still can end a game. I usually bring it in against a combo deck and or a deck that uses snap.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I like the look of your list. I would do the lands differently, but I tend to be a little greedy on the manabase. However, I think you should at least include a vault of the archangel it is actually really really good.
How useful do you feel having 2x pointiff in the main is?
Do you feel you consistently need 3x pack rat? I only ever really wanted 2 in my deck.
only 3 sculler? Every time I've cut down to 3 I've regretted it. I';ve heard sheepz say the same. Have you tried it at 4?
B gives you access to more kill spells like deathmark and dismember. Something like that might help for fish (I'm aware deathmark doesn't hit them, but I still like it). Strangler should help against them already. Perhaps EE?
Good work man! I want to see results with that list!
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
4path to exile
4 Vial
29 Creatures
3Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Vryn Wingmare
4 leonin arbiter
2 aven mindcensor
2 spellskite
4 flickerwisp
2 Restoration Angel
2 Mulldrifter
3 blade splicer
2 mirran crusader
1 Skaab Ruinator
1 Phantasmal image
1 Brimaz King of Oreskos
23 Lands
4 ghost quarter
2 horizon canopy
4 hallowed fountain
4 seachrome coast
2 tectonic edge
1 moorland haunt
1 eiganjo castle
2 plains
1 island
2 mutavault
3 kataki, war's wage
1 worship
2 echoing truth
1 hibernation
2 vendillion clique
2 surgical extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
I went 4-1 in a league.
Round 1 v Krak Clan combo 2-1
G1 I stomped him. He really just couldn't do anything.
G2 I thought I had it because I had kataki, but he managed to play an ugin anyway. I would have own despite ugin because of mutavault and his being at low life, but I made a mistake and thought he needed 11 planeswalker points for ugin, not 10.
G3: I made up for it by going thalia into wingmare. GG
Round 2 v USA cnotrol 1-2
G1 I had a god hand. I had vial and arbiter and wingmare and skite. I don't think he successfully killed anything.
G2 was really close, but he managed to grind it out and win when I drew 4 lands and then 2 vials.
I may have made an error in killing his colonnade with GQ and not his desolate lighthouse because I had a path in hand. I"m not sure.
This MU is much tougher when you don't start with vial.
Round 3 v zoo 2-0
Both games I landed an earlier arbiter and he only had 1 land. I had paths and GQs. Not a chance.
Round 4 V RUG twin 2-0
Game 1 I didn't actually see the twin pieces, but sort of assumed that was the case. I didn't really let him do anything anyway as I just used taxers and flickered lands for the win.
Game 2 I saw pieces of it, but I had spellskite with resto backup. He bloodmooned me, but I had 2 vials so I kept playing.
I don't know, but MUs like this feel a lot better with this version of the deck. I think it's a more defensive version of the deck than I usually play, but damn does it feel good.
Round 5 vs GBWU good stuff? 2-0
I saw damnation, mana acceleraters, finks, baneslayer angel, and kill spells. So I'm really not sure. It kinda felt like pod, but without any of the versatility.
G1 I had a splicers into splicers into flickerwisp. He had a baneslayer. It's too bad path isn't R,B, or a demon...
G2 was silly. He had a bunch of mana accelerators again. I had 2x arbiter and thalia. I used phantasmal image on arbiter. He damnationed. But then I had Skaab ruinator. He couldn't kill it.
I'm actually really happy with this version of the deck. It feels really well positioned and very consistent. Splicer felt really good in this version. I know there's been some doubts lately, but damn did she prove his worth today. Also, mirran was great MD. Even against red, I was able to protect my dudes well so he felt good. I did swap him out fairly often for Vendillion Clique, but I'd rather have him MD because I think the MUs where I want Clique more are better to begin with than the ones where I really want crusader. If you guys want some more specific SBing info I can try to remember what I did.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I'm not sure what your list looks like so it's hard to say exactly, but if you're having blood moon troubles you can add fetches and more basics to your deck as well as qasali pridemage. Wisp can also help you in a pinch with blood moon if you have vial out.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
EDIT: Some other things I'm noticing. Has Brimaz fallen out of favour? I'm not seeing him in many lists lately. I'm also having trouble with the 1 drop slot. Dryad Militant doesn't seem to do much in my meta-game, and Judge's Familiar doesn't do much either.
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