Most exciting cards I have seen in a while. Hope we get even more. Even if they don't work out, I am glad to start trying these cards out. Kessig Prowler the last addition was sort of an easy but unwanted sell. We knew this deck needed another 1 drop and Kessig Prowler was just barely decent enough to pass the cut. This time, we have these interesting cards that we aren't sure will pass the cut but show more potential.
Do you really think Kessig Prowler is decent enough? I've tried it and I think its pretty underwhelming personally. Young Wolf is easily the third best one drop for this deck atm. I know some players a few pages back weren't impressed by the Young Wolf version based on their FNM experiences, but I've been playing it on MTGO for a long time and based on its performance against the $1500+ meta decks there I will continue to stand by it.
And what is its performance? Some players a few pages back asked for your win rate and since youre playing on mtgo and winning its not hard to accumulate numbers right?
I played Young Wolf in a similar deck some time ago and I didnt like him. Its like he can be ignored half of the times. People here claim Wolf was playtested and performed poorly.
I as experienced deck builder dont like your manabase. 19 lands, thats 28% chance to have 1 or less lands, thats 70% chance to mull a hand during a match only to this effect. I dont think this deck mulligans well, with every card less it loses reach, its not like Jund if you have a fetch, land, Tarmo and Bolt/Inquisition you are good to compete. 3 tapped lands, 6 mana sinks for 19 lands in aggro deck? That will perform poorly, you better run 19 Forests and 2 Oozes
There was a request to share my foiled out stompy deck, so here it is! http://imgur.com/a/6KpLY I highly suggest foiling it out if you can it is really pretty.
So much Young Wolf discussion on the last pages. I didn't want to stop the enthusiasm and, oh well, playstyles are different, but the card has been tested extensively by many players before, me included. I wanted to like it, I really tried. Unfortunately the results were disappointing because of the reasons stated several times before.
Anyways, I'm curious to see which of the new cards could make it into the deck.
Edit: Had a lot of fun with Young Wolf in that crazy GU Pongify deck though
And _that_ is where I think some of these new guys have more viable homes. Fetchlands to enable Greenwheel Liberator (and fix manabase for a 2-color deck). Greenbelt Rampager getting to evolve multiple creatures multiple times without leaving you wishing for devotion like Aspect in monoG Stompy does (and being by default big enough to beat Beasts in the event you're forced to Pongify defensively).
What do you all think of Narnam Renegade? It's a one mana 1/2 with deathtouch that enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it when revolt happens. It synergizes with Avatar and the elephant, trades up, and is guaranteed to evolve Experiment One the first time, but it's not always a good turn one play (except with fetches).
Speaking of young wolf's spot, Narnam Renegade is now spoiled. A newer, greener, kird ape... with an upside! Deathtouch, evolves E1, but more difficult for us to turn on revolt since we don't really run fetches.
Also playing GB Scales Stompy with the next Set. The burst dmg seems insane. Even T1 Scales into T2 Liberator revolt trigger is so good. Think going to play something like this:
Really looking forward playing this. Nissa is just insane in this deck. -2 is almost alpha strike with Scales or Constrictor out. Also Scales + Nissa + Oran-Rief looks spicy making every turn a 2/3 plant token :). Oran-Rief + topdecked Constrictor = at least 4/5 beater. Ooze outgrows everything. Sideboard Spikefeeder could be able to wreck Burn on its own. also 1 of Retribution of the Ancients to fight all the decks with their small x/1 creatures
Oh man..this Set is soooo good. Lifecrafter's Bestiary also 2 of auto include against grindy decks in the Sideboard.
I would ditch lands that come into play tapped. Cheap aggro is needed with scales, that has efficiency and speed. Can't afford to wait a turn for a creature drop.
Also while Nissa is nice, a deck like this would only care about the +1/+1 counter ability she had. The newly revealed Maulfist Revolutionary gives counters in life AND death (and has trample). Borderline playable, but I take it over Nissa in aggro.
Today some new cards were revelead(Narnam Renegade, Maulfist Revolutionary, Scrounging Bandar) but no one seems to fit perfect in the deck.
Revolt is nice but I don't want to buy fetchs. I feel sad because Maulfist Revolutionary would be really nice if 3/4.
I think that Rishkar, Peema Renegade is a great card, even more than nissa for 3CMC. It gives 2 times +1/+1 counters and a body 2/2, making us play wide and safe from red global removals.
To keep the deck stompy I just replaced the cards that several stompy players dont use. Replacements:
Rakdos Cackler - the best 1 CMC, trigger evolve, 2 attack and has counter.
Rishkar Peema Renegade - Replace boggart or baloth. Nice sinergy with constritor, can put easy 6 power and counters for everyone.
Winding Constrictor - Replace the 2 drops Kalonian Tusker
Inspiring Call - Give us resilience and draws! Nice!
Nissa Voice of Zendikar - Give us resilience against removal decks and has nice sinergy with counters. I would replace her for Rancor to be more stompy.
Other removed cards:
Aspect hydra was removed - we are not so fast now but much more resilient.
Rancor - I love rancor, maybe find some place for it.. but it doesn't help us with counters and can be a risk against removals.
What do you thing about a black splash but keeping the core of the deck, stomper!
What do you guys think of Rishkar, Peema Renegade? I'm no pro with the deck but it looks interesting, it brings 4 power spread in 2 or 3 creatures, which make it "hard to remove", it includes counter shenanigans, which work with avatar of the resolute and maybe the mana ability can come handy.
Would not play Rhishkar over Nissa. Nissa gives us more explosive attacks and can establish a boardstate on her own. Rhishkar on an empty board or without Scales is too weak in my opinion. If Fatal Push has a huge impact on Modern, Nissa would be far better too. Maybe 4 Nissa and 1-2 Rhishkar max.
Stompy can not affort too many 3 cmc spells. Playing 8 of them really slows down this deck and it gets weaker. I would play only resilent 3 drops like Nissa or Witchstalker or Predator Ooze.
Going to play Narnam Renegade for sure. I already own fetches, so the trigger should not be so difficult to get. Deathtouch is nice killing something big if he gets blocked and is quite relevant against some decks.
Nissa is nice in Standard and EDH. But she requires a strategy closer to B/W tokens then an aggro strategy (like stompy) for her to have any success in modern. Stompy is a very quick aggro deck, and Nissa doesn't appear to help that strategy. 0/1 tokens are very weak, but are a good defense in a control or late-game midrange strategy. Standard is a slow enough format where Nissa can shine a bit.
But if you want to add a deck in budget/deck creation for your +1/+1 token deck, please do so so we can comment and work on it. What your proposing might be a fine deck, but not Stompy.
Narnam Renegade might be the final push to making a more +1/+1 focused deck. Most of our staple creatures already involve counters (E1, Geist, Avatar, Scooze). Also, I don't think Leatherback Baloth is going to be viable in a post-Fatal Push meta. Any three-drop we consider is going to have to stand up to any removal outside of path. With the addition of both Narnam Renegade and Fatal push I think seriously exploring Hardened Scales is a good idea. This is what I'm thinking so far:
I'd like to get a few Aspects back in the list, they'd probably come at the expense of 1 Rancor, and maybe a Scooze and/or Predator Ooze. Also, 4 Young Wolf/2 Narnam might be a better split, given that the former is more reliable in getting its counter and is a better turn-one play.
I know this forum is mostly for the green version (played this for a year like 2 years back, pls don't infract :^) ) but splashing for Narnam Renegade to use [any] fetches (and maybe Fatal Push) is tasty.
I think going out of the way to do stuff with +1/+1 counters is too variable and kind of gimmicky, but they could be good despite me not liking them.
These are pretty conservative changes, I don't think it'd be worth changing anything drastic.
Renegade helps you break up the line (fight cards > chumping) if you couldn't remove their dudes.
You also get Abrupt Decay, etc. Dismember stops hurting as much if you still decide to run it.
That 2/3 for BB deathtouch lifelink is cool, but would be hard to cast.
Couple of ways to go the Hardened Scales Stompy way. First one example is trying to abuse fetches to the max, second is still using fetches but sticking to more current modern stompy (still with +1/+1 counter focus.)
Standard // nRG Aggro
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
I don't think Greenwheel Liberator is going to make the cut, it's important to think of worst-case scenarios just as much as Christmasland ones. Worst case scenario it's a Dryad Militant that costs 1 more and has no upside. That's terrible. Really, really terrible. Even if you do trigger revolt it's still a boltable two-drop. It's only when you get revolt and have Hardened Scales down that it significantly outclasses existing two-drop options. We've got Avatar of the Resolute and Strangleroot Geist as 4-ofs, and 2-3 Scavenging Ooze, so if you want to play three-mana creatures I don't think there's any room left for more two-drops. If you're doing hyper Stompy with no three-drops then I could see 2ish Greenwheel Liberator, though I feel like Kalonian Tusker is substantially safer.
On the other hand, I think Narnam Renegade is much better, because it's still a playable card without your best-case scenarios happening. A 1/2 deathtouch for G is almost good enough to make the cut on its own; I've thought about Wasteland Viper before. Once Christmasland happens it's a boltproof 3/4 that no 'Goyf is going to want to get in the way of thanks to deathtouch. We're also really hurting for a 3rd one-drop to take Kessig Prowler's place.
So I'm back with results from FNM regarding Young Wolf, though I'm not sure it matters anymore. It wasn't great and I look forward to playing Narnam Renegade in its place. I didn't play @Beachweed's exact build (IIRC, mine was -1 Tusker, -1 wolf, -1 treetop village, +1 forest, +2 Defense), but I wasn't impressed. I boarded it out against most of my matchups. I did find the lower curve effective, though. Surprisingly so. I never thought that I'd like not haveing any Baloths or Elders so much.
Here's a brief report. I went 3-1 at ChannelFireball'a Modern FNM.
Round one just sucked: 0-2 vs Lantern Control. I got him down to one or two both games, but he was able to stabilize both games (Bridge=gg). I brought in two Natural States, but they didn't do much, not that I had high expectations. 0-1
Round two went well: 2-1 vs Abzan company. The game I lost I tried to force him to pay life with spellskite. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that he had two blue open... Wolf didn't shine here either, but his only removal was path, so idk. 1-1
Round three was incredible: 2-0 vs U Tron. Game 1, I drew the nuts and had the biggest board I've ever had with this deck. I knew pretty quickly that his deck was super slow, so I played greedily to make the board super dumb. pic. He had an o-stone, but it didn't save him b/c e1. I didn't see young wolf this match. 2-1
Round four could have been worse: 20 vs Jeskai Control. Game 1 he let me win by not cliquing away my Aspect. Aspect had me one off of lethal on board and he saw that I had an e1 in hand, but he let me keep it for some reason. Game 2 he mulled to 3 and I kept a good hand.
Young wolf wasn't good, but having 11 one-drops was. Again, looking forward to playing Renegade at the GP.
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I played Young Wolf in a similar deck some time ago and I didnt like him. Its like he can be ignored half of the times. People here claim Wolf was playtested and performed poorly.
I as experienced deck builder dont like your manabase. 19 lands, thats 28% chance to have 1 or less lands, thats 70% chance to mull a hand during a match only to this effect. I dont think this deck mulligans well, with every card less it loses reach, its not like Jund if you have a fetch, land, Tarmo and Bolt/Inquisition you are good to compete. 3 tapped lands, 6 mana sinks for 19 lands in aggro deck? That will perform poorly, you better run 19 Forests and 2 Oozes
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Nice work foiling it out. I like the alternate art Baloths and Ooze. ^__^
Would do this too once I have the budget.
about the new green cards from AER.. well, there's still some cards left to be spoiled. Hopefully, we get some more new toys to test with.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
And _that_ is where I think some of these new guys have more viable homes. Fetchlands to enable Greenwheel Liberator (and fix manabase for a 2-color deck). Greenbelt Rampager getting to evolve multiple creatures multiple times without leaving you wishing for devotion like Aspect in monoG Stompy does (and being by default big enough to beat Beasts in the event you're forced to Pongify defensively).
BWTokens
GCollected Stompany
BWGUSeance Insanity
URUR Bloo
Turn 1 - Experiment One (1/1)
Turn 2 - Fetch, Hardened Scales, Renegade (3/4) {Experiment One now 3/3)
Turn 3 - fetch, Renegade (3/4), Avatar (7/6) {first Renegade still 3/4, Experiment now 7/7}
Ideal scenario, but Renegade was built for Hardened Scales
Greenwheel Liberator dropping as a 5/4 for 2 is quite strong as well.
Fatal Push starts getting pushed heavy in modern.....then Predator Ooze becomes much stronger in the format.
Going to test a Jund version of aggro scales again as well.
I would ditch lands that come into play tapped. Cheap aggro is needed with scales, that has efficiency and speed. Can't afford to wait a turn for a creature drop.
Also while Nissa is nice, a deck like this would only care about the +1/+1 counter ability she had. The newly revealed Maulfist Revolutionary gives counters in life AND death (and has trample). Borderline playable, but I take it over Nissa in aggro.
After Winding Constritor spoiler I rebuild my stompy count deck, see below:
http://www.ligamagic.com.br/?view=decks/view&deck=492751
Today some new cards were revelead(Narnam Renegade, Maulfist Revolutionary, Scrounging Bandar) but no one seems to fit perfect in the deck.
Revolt is nice but I don't want to buy fetchs. I feel sad because Maulfist Revolutionary would be really nice if 3/4.
I think that Rishkar, Peema Renegade is a great card, even more than nissa for 3CMC. It gives 2 times +1/+1 counters and a body 2/2, making us play wide and safe from red global removals.
To keep the deck stompy I just replaced the cards that several stompy players dont use. Replacements:
Rakdos Cackler - the best 1 CMC, trigger evolve, 2 attack and has counter.
Rishkar Peema Renegade - Replace boggart or baloth. Nice sinergy with constritor, can put easy 6 power and counters for everyone.
Winding Constrictor - Replace the 2 drops Kalonian Tusker
Inspiring Call - Give us resilience and draws! Nice!
Nissa Voice of Zendikar - Give us resilience against removal decks and has nice sinergy with counters. I would replace her for Rancor to be more stompy.
Other removed cards:
Aspect hydra was removed - we are not so fast now but much more resilient.
Rancor - I love rancor, maybe find some place for it.. but it doesn't help us with counters and can be a risk against removals.
What do you thing about a black splash but keeping the core of the deck, stomper!
Nissa is nice in Standard and EDH. But she requires a strategy closer to B/W tokens then an aggro strategy (like stompy) for her to have any success in modern. Stompy is a very quick aggro deck, and Nissa doesn't appear to help that strategy. 0/1 tokens are very weak, but are a good defense in a control or late-game midrange strategy. Standard is a slow enough format where Nissa can shine a bit.
But if you want to add a deck in budget/deck creation for your +1/+1 token deck, please do so so we can comment and work on it. What your proposing might be a fine deck, but not Stompy.
(Kird Ape as a placeholder for Narnam Renegade)
2 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
2 Treetop Village
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Dismember
4 Experiment One
4 Hardened Scales
4 Kird Ape
4 Predator Ooze
4 Rancor
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Young Wolf
I'd like to get a few Aspects back in the list, they'd probably come at the expense of 1 Rancor, and maybe a Scooze and/or Predator Ooze. Also, 4 Young Wolf/2 Narnam might be a better split, given that the former is more reliable in getting its counter and is a better turn-one play.
I think going out of the way to do stuff with +1/+1 counters is too variable and kind of gimmicky, but they could be good despite me not liking them.
These are pretty conservative changes, I don't think it'd be worth changing anything drastic.
Renegade helps you break up the line (fight cards > chumping) if you couldn't remove their dudes.
You also get Abrupt Decay, etc. Dismember stops hurting as much if you still decide to run it.
That 2/3 for BB deathtouch lifelink is cool, but would be hard to cast.
Legacy: RUG Delver
Hardened Stompy (Fetches Matter!)
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Greenwheel Liberator
4 Undergrowth Champion
4 Rancor
4 Hardened Scales
2 Mutant's Prey
1 Vines of Vastwood
21 Land
Hardened Stompy
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Experiment One
2 Greenwheel Liberator
3 Young Wolf
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Predator Ooze
4 Hardened Scales
3 Mutant's Prey
4 Rancor
2 Vines of Vastwood
21 Land
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
On the other hand, I think Narnam Renegade is much better, because it's still a playable card without your best-case scenarios happening. A 1/2 deathtouch for G is almost good enough to make the cut on its own; I've thought about Wasteland Viper before. Once Christmasland happens it's a boltproof 3/4 that no 'Goyf is going to want to get in the way of thanks to deathtouch. We're also really hurting for a 3rd one-drop to take Kessig Prowler's place.
Here's a brief report. I went 3-1 at ChannelFireball'a Modern FNM.
Round one just sucked: 0-2 vs Lantern Control. I got him down to one or two both games, but he was able to stabilize both games (Bridge=gg). I brought in two Natural States, but they didn't do much, not that I had high expectations. 0-1
Round two went well: 2-1 vs Abzan company. The game I lost I tried to force him to pay life with spellskite. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that he had two blue open... Wolf didn't shine here either, but his only removal was path, so idk. 1-1
Round three was incredible: 2-0 vs U Tron. Game 1, I drew the nuts and had the biggest board I've ever had with this deck. I knew pretty quickly that his deck was super slow, so I played greedily to make the board super dumb. pic. He had an o-stone, but it didn't save him b/c e1. I didn't see young wolf this match. 2-1
Round four could have been worse: 20 vs Jeskai Control. Game 1 he let me win by not cliquing away my Aspect. Aspect had me one off of lethal on board and he saw that I had an e1 in hand, but he let me keep it for some reason. Game 2 he mulled to 3 and I kept a good hand.
Young wolf wasn't good, but having 11 one-drops was. Again, looking forward to playing Renegade at the GP.