You all are running Kessig Prowler over Young Wolf? SMH!
For the love of all that is green PLEASE try my list. I have been playing Stompy for years now and I haven't had a better win rate with any version other than this list. Leatherback Baloth/ 3 drops? Forget about em. They are so underwhelming most of the time. Streamlining the deck with 12 one drops, 16 forests and 3 treetop villages is the way to go. Trust me guys. You can search this thread; I provided plenty of screenshots of this deck crushing eldrazi aggro back during eldrazi winter, along with other powerful archetypes... BbearZ I know you have dogged on Young Wolf in the past but have you tried this list? Play it; playing T2 Treetop Village + another one drop as a follow up play to a T1 one drop, it makes a world of difference in terms of power level. Obviously the deck running leatherback is going to be better in some matchups but this version really is the all around better, more consistent deck for taking on the modern field. This seriously ought to be the default Stompy list.
Kalonian Tusker is necessary as a 4 of, as mediocre as it is. And Young Wolf vs Burn? I feel as if so many players have failed to see the upsides of this card. I love the little guy.
For the love of all that is green PLEASE try my list. I have been playing Stompy for years now and I haven't had a better win rate with any version other than this list. Leatherback Baloth/ 3 drops? Forget about em. They are so underwhelming most of the time. Streamlining the deck with 12 one drops, 16 forests and 3 treetop villages is the way to go. Trust me guys. You can search this thread; I provided plenty of screenshots of this deck crushing eldrazi aggro back during eldrazi winter, along with other powerful archetypes... BbearZ I know you have dogged on Young Wolf in the past but have you tried this list? Play it; playing T2 Treetop Village + another one drop as a follow up play to a T1 one drop, it makes a world of difference in terms of power level. Obviously the deck running leatherback is going to be better in some matchups but this version really is the all around better, more consistent deck for taking on the modern field. This seriously ought to be the default Stompy list.
Kalonian Tusker is necessary as a 4 of, as mediocre as it is. And Young Wolf vs Burn? I feel as if so many players have failed to see the upsides of this card. I love the little guy.
Would you recommend this list in a removal light (almost 0 decks with bolt) meta? Or maybe the same but Prowlers instead of Young Wolf?
playing T2 Treetop Village + another one drop as a follow up play to a T1 one drop, it makes a world of difference in terms of power level.
But your 1-drops are Militant, Wolf, E1. If that second one-drop isn't a Militant, then at the end of that T2 you have... 2 1/1s. 2 E1s, 2 Wolves or an E1 and a Wolf. Your opponent will just not block your Wolf while it's a 1/1 (or Path it if you try to invest more into it) and having creatures dealing damage in onesies ... isn't how this deck wins.
You push for Tusker but don't explain why you push for Tusker over Garruk's Companion. The deck virtually never blocks, they both evolve E1 equally well and provide devotion equally well, and they both die to the same most-plentiful removal spells (Bolt and Path). So why exactly is the third point of toughness more important than always-on trample? A big Aspect or Vines on a blocked Companion does a lot more than it does on a Tusker.
I definitely would not recommend Prowlers in this deck as it is only running 19 land and the instances in which you could transform it are slim. I've tested Prowler in place of Young Wolf and even in the rare scenario I got land flooded and transformed him it was by no mean game breaking.
Even if your meta is light on bolts, Undying and the +1/+1 counter make the card very good. He is a great blocker (yes, this deck blocks) and his synergy with Avatar is nice. I'm not sure what your meta looks like, but everything you can think of is played on MTGO, and I have had great success with this deck there. It isn't tier one, but it is much more competitive
But your 1-drops are Militant, Wolf, E1. If that second one-drop isn't a Militant, then at the end of that T2 you have... 2 1/1s. 2 E1s, 2 Wolves or an E1 and a Wolf. Your opponent will just not block your Wolf while it's a 1/1 (or Path it if you try to invest more into it) and having creatures dealing damage in onesies ... isn't how this deck wins.
You push for Tusker but don't explain why you push for Tusker over Garruk's Companion. The deck virtually never blocks, they both evolve E1 equally well and provide devotion equally well, and they both die to the same most-plentiful removal spells (Bolt and Path). So why exactly is the third point of toughness more important than always-on trample? A big Aspect or Vines on a blocked Companion does a lot more than it does on a Tusker.
You are forgetting about Rancor. Putting Rancor onto a one drop is huge, especially if it's Young Wolf. I've tested Garruk's Companion and the trample is not the boon you think it is. Here is just a short list of creatures in the modern meta that can trade with Companion, that can't normally trade with Tusker, off the top of my head:
Also, they are *not* equally good and evolving E1. You'd be surprised at how many instances you will have to equipped E1 with Rancor, which is easily one of the best cards in the deck. Tusker is important in maxing him out here.
You say the deck virtually never blocks... More often than not, unless you get a crazy hand, you are not trying to race the other aggro decks. You're playing a small control role and this is where Young Wolf really shines. Block their attacker and if its beneficial, swing on your turn.
Try the deck. Learn the deck. Not to sound boastful, but I am speaking from a lot of experience here.
@Beachweed: How do you do against the likes of Jund?
As of late, not that well honestly, although the deck can put up a good fight. I think a lot of it comes down to the die roll and whether or not we win game one. If we're on the play, I'd say its 50/50. That match up is such a headache because you have to play around so many cards and know exactly when to play your graveyard "hate bears" in the face of removal. I will look through my match history and see if I can find any replays.
I'm starting to come to the same conclusion, that our curve needs to be lower in order to compete with all of the unfair decks out there. I constantly am having trouble with big mana decks that I simple can't outrace, Tron being the most common one that I encounter. Sitting with a Baloth in my hand as I miss my third land drop is pretty much death against these kinds of decks. How much faster would you say your 2 cmc version is? Do you suffer in aggro matchups where you can't drop a 4/5 that can sit in front of Nacatls/Goblin Guide all day long?
I'm starting to come to the same conclusion, that our curve needs to be lower in order to compete with all of the unfair decks out there. I constantly am having trouble with big mana decks that I simple can't outrace, Tron being the most common one that I encounter. Sitting with a Baloth in my hand as I miss my third land drop is pretty much death against these kinds of decks. How much faster would you say your 2 cmc version is? Do you suffer in aggro matchups where you can't drop a 4/5 that can sit in front of Nacatls/Goblin Guide all day long?
Young Wolf instead of Baloth makes our aggro matchup better. He comes down earlier, and does a great job at blocking. Most of the time Baloth is just late to the party.
By making it so that the deck consistently has a turn one play, we are lining up the speed of our deck with the rest of modern. Having 2cmc cards as our most expensive prevents us from having to tap out with vines or aspect in our hands. I'd rather play an earlier tusker with vines as backup than tap out for baloth for the sake of curving out, only to have it die to a 1cmc/2cmc removal spell. Protecting him with vines in a manner that is efficient for us is much harder even with a 21 land count.
I actually just beat a tron deck 2-0 the other day, and it was all because I was able to equipped my militant with a rancor AND play a Young Wolf on turn 2, winning on T5 even after an Oblivion Stone. This was on the draw. Game 2 I equip Young Wolf with a Rancor and played a Treetop Village to break through his Timely reinforcements.
Checkout these pics and tell me that the combination of Wolves, treetops, and NO 3 drops isn't way better
I'm starting to come to the same conclusion, that our curve needs to be lower in order to compete with all of the unfair decks out there. I constantly am having trouble with big mana decks that I simple can't outrace, Tron being the most common one that I encounter. Sitting with a Baloth in my hand as I miss my third land drop is pretty much death against these kinds of decks. How much faster would you say your 2 cmc version is? Do you suffer in aggro matchups where you can't drop a 4/5 that can sit in front of Nacatls/Goblin Guide all day long?
Young Wolf instead of Baloth makes our aggro matchup better. He comes down earlier, and does a great job at blocking. Most of the time Baloth is just late to the party.
By making it so that the deck consistently has a turn one play, we are lining up the speed of our deck with the rest of modern. Having 2cmc cards as our most expensive prevents us from having to tap out with vines or aspect in our hands. I'd rather play an earlier tusker with vines as backup than tap out for baloth for the sake of curving out, only to have it die to a 1cmc/2cmc removal spell. Protecting him with vines in a manner that is efficient for us is much harder even with a 21 land count.
I actually just beat a tron deck 2-0 the other day, and it was all because I was able to equipped my militant with a rancor AND play a Young Wolf on turn 2, winning on T5 even after an Oblivion Stone. This was on the draw. Game 2 I equip Young Wolf with a Rancor and played a Treetop Village to break through his Timely reinforcements.
Checkout these pics and tell me that the combination of Wolves, treetops, and NO 3 drops isn't way better
I'm starting to come to the same conclusion, that our curve needs to be lower in order to compete with all of the unfair decks out there. I constantly am having trouble with big mana decks that I simple can't outrace, Tron being the most common one that I encounter. Sitting with a Baloth in my hand as I miss my third land drop is pretty much death against these kinds of decks. How much faster would you say your 2 cmc version is? Do you suffer in aggro matchups where you can't drop a 4/5 that can sit in front of Nacatls/Goblin Guide all day long?
Young Wolf instead of Baloth makes our aggro matchup better. He comes down earlier, and does a great job at blocking. Most of the time Baloth is just late to the party.
By making it so that the deck consistently has a turn one play, we are lining up the speed of our deck with the rest of modern. Having 2cmc cards as our most expensive prevents us from having to tap out with vines or aspect in our hands. I'd rather play an earlier tusker with vines as backup than tap out for baloth for the sake of curving out, only to have it die to a 1cmc/2cmc removal spell. Protecting him with vines in a manner that is efficient for us is much harder even with a 21 land count.
I actually just beat a tron deck 2-0 the other day, and it was all because I was able to equipped my militant with a rancor AND play a Young Wolf on turn 2, winning on T5 even after an Oblivion Stone. This was on the draw. Game 2 I equip Young Wolf with a Rancor and played a Treetop Village to break through his Timely reinforcements.
Checkout these pics and tell me that the combination of Wolves, treetops, and NO 3 drops isn't way better
Post the videos here
Although I would like to, I don't have the necessary hardware to create MTGO videos.
Although I would like to, I don't have the necessary hardware to create MTGO videos.
Assuming you have a computer of some sort, there are free things like OBS to record your screen without much overhead. To the best of my knowledge, MTGO isn't exactly demanding on the hardware either. Get recording! 8)
I'm trying to figure out your lines of play with Treetop Village because to me, from the lines I iterate through, it seemingly gums your early game up (and this deck is almost entirely early game - if you don't win fast you don't win). It comes into play tapped so it stunts your mana production the turn it lands, it costs mana to activate which means that even if you swing with it asap you're not able to able to play other creatures or pump or defense on it, and it doesn't contribute to devotion so you're putting a lot of resources into something that isn't making your Aspect any better, when traditional fat in that slot would. And it can't wear Rancor for long either.
I don't entirely get how Leatherback Baloth is 'late to the party' because it costs 3, when Village effectively costs 4 to get to its first swing (1 the turn it enters the battlefield tapped instead of an untapped forest, 2 + tapping itself to swing). I don't see how the risk of Baloth getting pathed is so great but Village seems at least as open to Path and Bolt and when it goes you've lost a land drop as well as a lot of invested mana. And I can't imagine you're waiting til you have mana to activate it, attack, and still be able to defend it with Vines... and still be getting T5 kills.
Depends on what you're playing I guess, but if you are on the wolf plan, I'd play wolf t1, e1+ treetop or forest depending on your draw t2. I would play e1 if I knew opponent has no removal for him. I'd give my line of play if you could provide the scenario.
I was specifically asking Beachweed about what he'd do with his deck given that opening hand (most of the past 5 days of posts are about Beachweed's recent deck, I didn't explicitly quote this time but was intending to be following the same conversation), as I'm trying to understand the recently-discussed deckbuilding tenets he's been suggesting (pro Young Wolf and Treetop Village, anti Kessig Prowler and Leatherback Baloth).
For a scenario: assume it's game 1 of a match against a stranger (so you don't know anything about likely removal), you're playing Beachweed's deck as posted in an image (in post #4906) above, and you're on the play with that seven card opening hand. You obviously don't know what you'll draw on T2 when you have to decide on your T1 play, but let's assume it's another instant (Aspect or Vines). Assume opponent just plays, say, Windswept Heath on his T1, if that affects your T2 play (but you don't even know that much before making your T1 play).
I'm trying to figure out your lines of play with Treetop Village because to me, from the lines I iterate through, it seemingly gums your early game up (and this deck is almost entirely early game - if you don't win fast you don't win). It comes into play tapped so it stunts your mana production the turn it lands, it costs mana to activate which means that even if you swing with it asap you're not able to able to play other creatures or pump or defense on it, and it doesn't contribute to devotion so you're putting a lot of resources into something that isn't making your Aspect any better, when traditional fat in that slot would. And it can't wear Rancor for long either.
I don't entirely get how Leatherback Baloth is 'late to the party' because it costs 3, when Village effectively costs 4 to get to its first swing (1 the turn it enters the battlefield tapped instead of an untapped forest, 2 + tapping itself to swing). I don't see how the risk of Baloth getting pathed is so great but Village seems at least as open to Path and Bolt and when it goes you've lost a land drop as well as a lot of invested mana. And I can't imagine you're waiting til you have mana to activate it, attack, and still be able to defend it with Vines... and still be getting T5 kills.
A lot of it is about establishing your board before playing geist so that you have more options. Phaircaron's response was pretty much lined up with mine here; if I don't know what the other person is playing, I would go T1 Wolf, T2 E1 and Treetop Village. This allows you to play Geist on T3 with backup mana for vines. Alternatively you could also activate Treetop earlier, although you are almost never trying to "attack with it asap", unless you're in some weird spot in which it benefits you to not cast anything. The situations in which you want to put Rancor onto Treetop Village are also rare...
Treetop using up a slot for "fat"? As in a creature slot? What? It's a land. It doesn't take up a slot for anything, save maybe a basic Forest. Not to mention this version has more room for spells than the traditional list running 3 drops and 21 land... It's also not there to contribute to devotion, nor does it "effectively cost 4 to swing". I think you are missing the point of man-lands entirely...
The extra reach that Treetop provides this deck heavily outweighs any drawback it may produce from coming into play tapped, end of story.
As far as this deck being "entirely early game" or "if you don't win fast, you don't win"... You're wrong there. Just look at this ridiculously grindy match I won against Esper tokens. Young Wolf FTW! Against a Sorin, Solemn Visitor that gained my opponent 8 life, and a Phyrexian Unlife nonetheless. I think my point stands.
Although I would like to, I don't have the necessary hardware to create MTGO videos.
Assuming you have a computer of some sort, there are free things like OBS to record your screen without much overhead. To the best of my knowledge, MTGO isn't exactly demanding on the hardware either. Get recording! 8)
Rumpy, thanks for telling me about OBS. I didn't know that such a free program existed. I just installed it.
However, after tinkering with it for about 45 minutes and watching Youtube tutorials (including those specifically geared towards MTGO streaming), I haven't been able to get the MTGO screen to show up. I can get it to show other windows using the "Display capture option", but MTGO is just invisible to the software. I tried all the other capture options as well - none seem to work.
Hoping you can help me with this. I'd love to show off my deck to this primer using videos
I never bothered with fancy attempts to record just a select part of the screen. Under the "Sources" section thing, which starts off empty, I click the plus sign, select plain "Display capture", boom. Whole screen being recorded.
You all are running Kessig Prowler over Young Wolf? SMH!
For the love of all that is green PLEASE try my list. I have been playing Stompy for years now and I haven't had a better win rate with any version other than this list. Leatherback Baloth/ 3 drops? Forget about em. They are so underwhelming most of the time. Streamlining the deck with 12 one drops, 16 forests and 3 treetop villages is the way to go. Trust me guys. You can search this thread; I provided plenty of screenshots of this deck crushing eldrazi aggro back during eldrazi winter, along with other powerful archetypes... BbearZ I know you have dogged on Young Wolf in the past but have you tried this list? Play it; playing T2 Treetop Village + another one drop as a follow up play to a T1 one drop, it makes a world of difference in terms of power level. Obviously the deck running leatherback is going to be better in some matchups but this version really is the all around better, more consistent deck for taking on the modern field. This seriously ought to be the default Stompy list.
Kalonian Tusker is necessary as a 4 of, as mediocre as it is. And Young Wolf vs Burn? I feel as if so many players have failed to see the upsides of this card. I love the little guy.
Would you recommend this list in a removal light (almost 0 decks with bolt) meta? Or maybe the same but Prowlers instead of Young Wolf?
But your 1-drops are Militant, Wolf, E1. If that second one-drop isn't a Militant, then at the end of that T2 you have... 2 1/1s. 2 E1s, 2 Wolves or an E1 and a Wolf. Your opponent will just not block your Wolf while it's a 1/1 (or Path it if you try to invest more into it) and having creatures dealing damage in onesies ... isn't how this deck wins.
You push for Tusker but don't explain why you push for Tusker over Garruk's Companion. The deck virtually never blocks, they both evolve E1 equally well and provide devotion equally well, and they both die to the same most-plentiful removal spells (Bolt and Path). So why exactly is the third point of toughness more important than always-on trample? A big Aspect or Vines on a blocked Companion does a lot more than it does on a Tusker.
Even if your meta is light on bolts, Undying and the +1/+1 counter make the card very good. He is a great blocker (yes, this deck blocks) and his synergy with Avatar is nice. I'm not sure what your meta looks like, but everything you can think of is played on MTGO, and I have had great success with this deck there. It isn't tier one, but it is much more competitive
You are forgetting about Rancor. Putting Rancor onto a one drop is huge, especially if it's Young Wolf. I've tested Garruk's Companion and the trample is not the boon you think it is. Here is just a short list of creatures in the modern meta that can trade with Companion, that can't normally trade with Tusker, off the top of my head:
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Voice of Resurgence
Any of the Merfolk Lords
Goblin Guide
Snapcaster Mage
Young Pyromancer
Goblin Electromancer
Leonin Arbiter
Bloodghast
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Dark Confidant
Need I waste my time??
Also, they are *not* equally good and evolving E1. You'd be surprised at how many instances you will have to equipped E1 with Rancor, which is easily one of the best cards in the deck. Tusker is important in maxing him out here.
You say the deck virtually never blocks... More often than not, unless you get a crazy hand, you are not trying to race the other aggro decks. You're playing a small control role and this is where Young Wolf really shines. Block their attacker and if its beneficial, swing on your turn.
Try the deck. Learn the deck. Not to sound boastful, but I am speaking from a lot of experience here.
BWTokens
GCollected Stompany
BWGUSeance Insanity
URUR Bloo
As of late, not that well honestly, although the deck can put up a good fight. I think a lot of it comes down to the die roll and whether or not we win game one. If we're on the play, I'd say its 50/50. That match up is such a headache because you have to play around so many cards and know exactly when to play your graveyard "hate bears" in the face of removal. I will look through my match history and see if I can find any replays.
Here's the list I'm running, for reference:
3 Treetop Village
3 Aspect of Hydra
3 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Dismember
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
2 Kessig Prowler
3 Leatherback Baloth
4 Rancor
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Feed the Clan
2 Gut Shot
1 Hunt the Hunter
2 Natural State
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Unravel the Aether
Young Wolf instead of Baloth makes our aggro matchup better. He comes down earlier, and does a great job at blocking. Most of the time Baloth is just late to the party.
By making it so that the deck consistently has a turn one play, we are lining up the speed of our deck with the rest of modern. Having 2cmc cards as our most expensive prevents us from having to tap out with vines or aspect in our hands. I'd rather play an earlier tusker with vines as backup than tap out for baloth for the sake of curving out, only to have it die to a 1cmc/2cmc removal spell. Protecting him with vines in a manner that is efficient for us is much harder even with a 21 land count.
I actually just beat a tron deck 2-0 the other day, and it was all because I was able to equipped my militant with a rancor AND play a Young Wolf on turn 2, winning on T5 even after an Oblivion Stone. This was on the draw. Game 2 I equip Young Wolf with a Rancor and played a Treetop Village to break through his Timely reinforcements.
Checkout these pics and tell me that the combination of Wolves, treetops, and NO 3 drops isn't way better
Post the videos here
Although I would like to, I don't have the necessary hardware to create MTGO videos.
Assuming you have a computer of some sort, there are free things like OBS to record your screen without much overhead. To the best of my knowledge, MTGO isn't exactly demanding on the hardware either. Get recording! 8)
I'm trying to figure out your lines of play with Treetop Village because to me, from the lines I iterate through, it seemingly gums your early game up (and this deck is almost entirely early game - if you don't win fast you don't win). It comes into play tapped so it stunts your mana production the turn it lands, it costs mana to activate which means that even if you swing with it asap you're not able to able to play other creatures or pump or defense on it, and it doesn't contribute to devotion so you're putting a lot of resources into something that isn't making your Aspect any better, when traditional fat in that slot would. And it can't wear Rancor for long either.
I don't entirely get how Leatherback Baloth is 'late to the party' because it costs 3, when Village effectively costs 4 to get to its first swing (1 the turn it enters the battlefield tapped instead of an untapped forest, 2 + tapping itself to swing). I don't see how the risk of Baloth getting pathed is so great but Village seems at least as open to Path and Bolt and when it goes you've lost a land drop as well as a lot of invested mana. And I can't imagine you're waiting til you have mana to activate it, attack, and still be able to defend it with Vines... and still be getting T5 kills.
Depends on what you're playing I guess, but if you are on the wolf plan, I'd play wolf t1, e1+ treetop or forest depending on your draw t2. I would play e1 if I knew opponent has no removal for him. I'd give my line of play if you could provide the scenario.
For a scenario: assume it's game 1 of a match against a stranger (so you don't know anything about likely removal), you're playing Beachweed's deck as posted in an image (in post #4906) above, and you're on the play with that seven card opening hand. You obviously don't know what you'll draw on T2 when you have to decide on your T1 play, but let's assume it's another instant (Aspect or Vines). Assume opponent just plays, say, Windswept Heath on his T1, if that affects your T2 play (but you don't even know that much before making your T1 play).
A lot of it is about establishing your board before playing geist so that you have more options. Phaircaron's response was pretty much lined up with mine here; if I don't know what the other person is playing, I would go T1 Wolf, T2 E1 and Treetop Village. This allows you to play Geist on T3 with backup mana for vines. Alternatively you could also activate Treetop earlier, although you are almost never trying to "attack with it asap", unless you're in some weird spot in which it benefits you to not cast anything. The situations in which you want to put Rancor onto Treetop Village are also rare...
Treetop using up a slot for "fat"? As in a creature slot? What? It's a land. It doesn't take up a slot for anything, save maybe a basic Forest. Not to mention this version has more room for spells than the traditional list running 3 drops and 21 land... It's also not there to contribute to devotion, nor does it "effectively cost 4 to swing". I think you are missing the point of man-lands entirely...
The extra reach that Treetop provides this deck heavily outweighs any drawback it may produce from coming into play tapped, end of story.
As far as this deck being "entirely early game" or "if you don't win fast, you don't win"... You're wrong there. Just look at this ridiculously grindy match I won against Esper tokens. Young Wolf FTW! Against a Sorin, Solemn Visitor that gained my opponent 8 life, and a Phyrexian Unlife nonetheless. I think my point stands.
Rumpy, thanks for telling me about OBS. I didn't know that such a free program existed. I just installed it.
However, after tinkering with it for about 45 minutes and watching Youtube tutorials (including those specifically geared towards MTGO streaming), I haven't been able to get the MTGO screen to show up. I can get it to show other windows using the "Display capture option", but MTGO is just invisible to the software. I tried all the other capture options as well - none seem to work.
Hoping you can help me with this. I'd love to show off my deck to this primer using videos