Welcome, this is the primer for White Weenie, or, more specifically, Death and Taxes (in my opinion the most powerful form of WW). Variants and color splashes are also discussed here. If you are looking for the legacy version, the first of the three links below will help. If you aren't sure what the modern format is, the second of the three links below should explain it. Death and Taxes (Legacy; type 1.5) (Shout-out to Finn, creator of type 1.5 primer) Modern Rules / Banlist (Thanks Wizards, for the great format :)) Heros of the Plane Studios (Thanks for the thread banner!)
Table of Contents:
I. The History, the Strategy, and the Key Cards (D+T)
II. Tricks, and how the Deck Plays Out (D+T)
III. Decklists
IV. Card Choices
V. Matchups
I. The History, the Strategy, and the Key Cards (D+T)
Death and Taxes started developing as a legacy deck when Time Spiral came out, and with it, the printing of mangara of corondor. The idea for the deck came from the interaction of mangara with another, older card; karakas. As exiling mangara wasn't part of his activation, you could activate karakas in response to tapping him, and return him to your hand before he exiled himself. Unfortunately your opponent couldn't say the same for his permanent you targeted. Aether vial also came in handy, because you could use this interaction, then put him right back onto the battlefield at the end of the turn, ready to repeat the same process next turn.
This was the basis for the deck; then came the add-ons. The word "taxes" came from all of tricks and cards you could use to slowly shut down the entire mechanics of your opponent's deck. The word "death" came from what happened to your opponent shortly afterward.
Then, Eventide happened, and so did flickerwisp. D+T was already a pretty strong deck, generally mono-white. But 'wisp had a better idea: make it stronger. Flickerwisp flew into D+T lists fairly fast, due to all of the interactions it could do just by itself, let alone with aether vial... not to mention it could pound for 3 in the air. It also allowed mangara to operate and come back for more without karakas, but just for one turn. If aether vial was out, the user would use mangara and flash 'wisp onto the battlefield in response, bringing mangara back to fight once more at the end of the turn.
As the years progressed, Death and Taxes became more and more powerful, and almost all lists were mono-white. D+T recognized the power of stoneforge mystic even before it made it big in standard, using it to grab sword of fire and ice, sword of light and shadow, and umezawa's jitte. Putting one of those on a serra avenger caused the "death" part of it to come even more naturally, while still messing with the opponent's cards to make him/her unable to do much but sit and watch in horror.
Today, it is still a very powerful deck. Underrated, but powerful. You can use the link at the top of the page to get to the legacy primer, in which myself and others continuously test it to make sure it doesn't fall behind in the game.
Now it has made it to modern, by its creator (me), with help from many of the below posters. The main thing that is missing is karakas, but the deck can still function without it. Mangara is still a vindicate with legs, and flickerwisp can still repeat his ability. Other key cards from the legacy version are gone as well, such as wasteland, rishadan port, mother of runes, swords to plowshares and umezawa's jitte, but in retrospect that isn't much compared to a lot of other decks trying to move from legacy into modern.
Modern D+T's History (Major changes in card choice trends)
[8/12/11} Now that stoneforge mystic is banned in modern, leonin arbiter can be played without drawbacks. This shifts the strategy to a mana denial strategy, which happens to be really good for the metagame of modern. leonin arbiter and aven mindcensor can stop fetch-lands (such as verdant catacombs) a good deal of the time, and both can make path to exile and ghost quarter ten times better. Mangara of corondor, flickerwisp, aether vial, and a number of other good cards are still hanging around and perfectly legal, and they contribute to the strategy and make the deck faster and more powerful. In the next section, there is information about what makes these cards good and how D+T should work.
[6/18/12} Mangara of corondor has been a very important piece to the theory behind D+T for a very long time. While he is still a good card, it's been found that he doesn't feel optimal any more. He is still a good option for some D+T lists, but as the metagame stands, he doesn't feel good enough for the mainstream lists; there is just too much removal, and the format is pretty fast.
[9/19/13} Primer has extended to also include mono-white hatebears and white hatebears with a splash. A very similar archtype with less blink effects, hatebears runs similar taxing creatures.
II. Tricks, and how the Deck Plays Out (D+T)
The deck is really fun to play with, but takes skill and thinking to master. Not a great deck for people who like to play more relaxed, but if you don't mind it's a very good choice. For people who like to put funny looks on their opponents' faces, a bonus is added. One can usually get all the cards needed from scratch for about $150, which is quite low compared to most decks out there. If you already have some of the cards, that price can be cut down quite a bit.
First off, you need to be aware of the sheer power of flickerwisp. Here is a list compiled of the many tricks you can perform with him/her/it.
Hardcasting Tricks:
1. Hardcast it to untap one of your creatues after combat.
2. Hardcast it on your own land to untap it, making it cost one less mana basically.
3. Hardcast it to remove a blocker.
4. Hardcast it targeting an opposing aether vial, engineered explosives, chalice of the void, etc. to remove all counters from it.
5. Hardcast it targeting your oblivion ring or phyrexian revoker to switch targets (when it comes back).
6. Hardcast it targeting your jotun grunt to remove it's age counters.
7. Hardcast it targeting another flickerwisp you own so that when the second comes back, it removes something for the entire next turn. (unnecessary if you have a vial out though, see vial tricks: #2)
Vial Tricks:
1. Any of the tricks above also works here.
2. Vial it in on your end step to remove one of their lands (or another permanent) for their whole turn (works better with a mana-denial strategy).
3. Vial it in to stop an attacking creature.
4. Vial it in response to their removal spell to save your creature.
5. Vial it in to save your chump blocker.
5b. Vial it in to save knight of meadowgrain or a first strike creature after it has already done its damage.
6. The most important (and most complicated) interaction. Vial it in to abuse the hell out of mangara of corondor, oblivion ring, tidehollow sculler, journey to nowhere, etc. Here's how (with oblivion ring as an example):
a. Cast Oblivion Ring.
b. With it's exile trigger on the stack (targeting, say, a Siege-Gang Commander), activate Aether Vial.
e. Oblivion Ring's second ability resolves, returning the Siege-Gang Commander to the battlefield, which, of course never left in the first place - so nothing happens.
stack = 1. exile SGC
f. Oblivion Ring's first ability then resolves, exiling Siege-Gang Commander permanently (since the return trigger already resolved).
g. At the beginning of your end step, Flickerwisp's delayed trigger returns Oblivion Ring to the battlefield, exiling another nonland permanent as normal.
This also works for the other stuff mentioned above. Mangara is the best thing to use, however, because unlike oblivion ring, he can can use his ability anytime, whereas oblivion ring works right when it comes into play. And mangara is a blocker. In the next spoiler, i'll show the best way to abuse mangara.
As you just saw, the deck works together very well, and it has a lot of really good options. Stonecloaker is also really good, and lists shall probably run him too, but as you can see, he can't do near the the stuff flickerwisp can. he can only target creatures, and only yours nonetheless. And it has to go back to your hand. He does have flash himself, which is nice, as well as an extra toughneSs and an ability that hurts graveyard based decks, but that doesn't level out the balance at all. 'Wisp is still superior. The main reason to run him is that he works with mangara in a similar way wisp does (vial tricks #6 in the spoiler above). And he's an awesome beater as well.
Aside from the stonecloaker/flickerwisp interactions, here is an example of how powerful mangara is. He can totally change the game around:
Your opponent attacks with, oh, say, two tarmogoyfs. You have a mangara of corondor on the field, and a vial at 3. Now watch this:
1. Block a goyf with mangara.
2. Use mangara's ability targeting the other one.
3. Vial in flickerwisp or hardcast/vial in stonecloaker, targeting mangara in the same fashion as i explained in the spoiler above (vial tricks #6).
You lost no life, exiled a goyf, gained a reasonably sized flier, and mangara is either still on the field or in your hand. Wow. I'd hate to hear my opponent's thoughts at that point.
It's a vindicate on legs at first glance, but it can do a lot more as well. Interactions like this is not enough to kill your opponent, so we shall rely on fliers such as aven mindcensor, flickerwisp, serra avenger, stonecloaker, etc. while attempting to deny them of mana. The beatdown used to be a heck of a lot easier, when SFM was legal, but it is still powerful now as well.
(Note: recent trends show that the metagame is too fast for mangara to be optimal. He is currently not in most D+T lists.)
III. Deck Lists
Here is a pretty standard example of a Death and Taxes list.
If you post a, well, different decklist, yet still effective, it could very well end up in this part of the section. The below are forms of D+T that really focus on one aspect of the game more than the others.
this list was originally submitted by Thraish, and i just tweaked it slightly to my liking (original ran arbiters and less land). Martyr of Sands is the big thing here, gaining you a huge amount of life. with a lot of fast decks in the format, martyr can help a huge deal. you can also sacrifice her to remove bridge from below when playing against dredge, etc.
kitchen finks can also be abused here. with sword of light and shadow bringing it back, flickerwisp resetting the -1/-1 counters, and it's own persist ability, you will have so much life that you don't know what to do with it. aven riftwatcher is brutal in similar ways.
this list i threw together as a more aggressive deck, that doesn't focus on the tricks as much. steppe lynx is the big one here, smashing with huge amounts of landfall from flagstones and fetches. keep in mind you can use your own ghost quarter to hit a flagstones and get even more lands! ghost quarter is also played to hurt the punishing fire combo (that's why they are run in almost any of our lists, along with tectonic edge). this deck is untested, so might not be the optimal list. it seems good, and if anyone has time on their hands and wants to test it, that would help a great deal :).
this list is one i threw together after seeing more than one person with a similar list. it uses blue to abuse ninja of the deep hours as a draw engine. it also can run a couple counters; i chose spell pierce to make sure i get an aether vial down turn 2, and of course the normal reasons. D+T isn't very scared of creatures anyways, mostly other spells.
this deck uses stonecloaker over flickerwisp, mainly to bounce the ninja, attack next turn, use ninja, play it again, etc., and draw another card every turn. because this deck usually draws more than normal, we can run less of things, and even a couple baneslayer just because we will probably draw more lands over time as well.
mangara can also be abused with crystal shard. crystal shard can also bounce opponent's creatures, which is nice as well.
i just made this off the top my head, but it is really good. amazingling powerful against 12post, zoo, splinter twin, and more. it loses to some combo, but for the most part this deck just straight up shuts down most decks. in much of my testing, i've made people go from 8 lands down to 4 with a choice each turn to either attack with one creature or play one spell. and that was a game with a slow start.
IV. Card Choices
There are many other cards that can be good in D+T, and this section goes through quite a bit of them. Card choices are important for each individual's metagame; my list is not necessarily the optimal list for the environment you play in.
I'd also like to give some credit to Finn for this section, as i looked at parts of his primer to help create this.
Anyways, this part of the section will take you through some of the other card options for different D+T versions... i didn't include cards that can't be played in mono-white (e.g. qasali pridemage, vendillion clique), as if i did this section would be really, really long.
*also, "cc" stands for "casting cost", just in case you didn't know.
1cc
isamaru, hound of konda - 1 mana for a 2/2 is always nice. legendaryness can sometimes run into problems, but still a decent option for the right deck.
elite vanguard - 1 mana for a 2/1, but isn't legendary. can fit into some decks.
student of warfare - if you find you have extra mana a lot, this guy will serve you well. more for aggro versions, though. saving him with flickerwisp also makes him loose all his level counters.
figure of destiny - similar to student, better in some ways, worse in others. the fact that you need all the mana at one time to "level him up" is really bad for the deck, but he's still a good card.
2cc
serra avenger - should be in almost any deck, especially if you are playing a mono-white version. lightning bolts are a problem, but she is still insanely powerful. you can put her in on turn 3 with aether vial, too.
jotun grunt - should also be in most decklists. 2 mana for a 4/4, 'nuff said. this guy can go toe to toe with a tarmogoyf and win, due to it's ability. the same ability that hurts dredge, reanimation, etc. Unfortunately that ability does sometimes kill it, but flickerwisp and stonecloaker help to remove age counters, keeping it around longer.
soltari priest - unblockable, pro red. sworded up, he can really get in there for some damage. can't block, though.
knight of meadowgrain - very nice card, especially in life-gain builds. if your metagame is fast, i would consider running this guy over serra avenger.
epochrasite - off of aether vial, and whenever he dies, he comes into play as a 4/4. i like jotun grunt better due to the graveyard interactions, but this guy is still sweet. he's an artifact, though, so watch out for qasali pridemage.
knight of the white orchird - 2/2 first strike, with a ramping ability. really helpful for lists that run very small amounts of land.
spectral rider - 2/2 intimidate, great to equip a sword too.
3cc
stillmoon cavalier - really, really nice card. really, really mana-intensive. for 3, i'd rather have 'wisp or mangara, and this guy continues to eat up mana afterward. great option for decks with a lot of mana, that want the tricks not to be as big of part to the deck.
spectral procession - pretty much a creature card, and i nice one at that. it leans towards basic white weenie more than it does D+T though. with honor of the pure builds, it can really pack a punch.
blade splicer - really nice card; with flickerwisp and the like it can get you some extra 3/3s (sometimes with first strike).
4cc
angel of jubliation - pumps up your guys, and has a decent body. 4 mana is on the higher end, though. if you feel you can support it, go for it. it also stops fetchland activations (as well as some other things), which can be very relevant.
5cc
baneslayer angel - D+T doesn't generally want high cc creatures, but if you've got the mana base for it, this guy is probably the best choice (for a high cc creature). equip him with a sword! now thats what i call a beating.
oversoul of dusk - really good as well, another alternative to baneslayer. protection is very nice, and if your metagame has more control in it than aggro, it might be good to consider him over baneslayer.
divinity of pride - generally baneslayer is better, but if you have a life-oriented build, such as "life and taxes", he can be dropped as an 8/8, which is awesome.
1cc
goldmeadow harrier / gideon's lawkeeper - seems like a draft card, but it is really one of the best one drops. one mana almost every turn can hurt, but tapping a blocker or stopping a goyf / batterskull from attacking can be key.
martyr of sands - crazy life-gain for mono-white. some decks can be based of this. you can also sacrifice her to remove bridge from below against dredge.
burrenton forge-tender - good against goblins, burn, and decent against zoo. sword of light and shadow can bring her back, while gaining you life, making it really hard for gobs or burn to win.
children of korlis - similar to forge-tender, but for any color. it doesn't have protection, and you actually have to lose the life first, but with sols, it can really stop your opponent for a while.
weathered wayfarer - really nice if you don't run much lands. if you have jotun grunt out, you can also search for a tectonic edge, use it, then recycle it back into your deck for next turn.
thalia, guardian of thraben - such a nice card. hurts control, works with mana-denial strategy, kills storm, has first strike and thus is a threat... lists should only stop running 4 in the 75 when storm no longer exists... until then, she is just plain awesome (and probably after that too).
kor skyfisher - pros and cons to 'wisp and 'cloaker. i'm sure you can figure them out.
kor firewalker - really nice sideboard card for burn and goblins.
knight of the holy nimbus - mostly a blocker, but a decent attacker as well. in a mana-denial strategy, he is even better.
ethersworn canonist - really nice card, but in my opinion more of a sideboard option. 3-4 is generally good, as this deck's worst matchups consist of a lot of decks that this guy messes up.
samurai of the pale curtain - also more of a sideboard card, but a very good one. really hurts dredge, and, if need be, early tarmogoyfs. dredge is not the best matchup, so this guy is pretty good.
true believer - a nice card against storm, discard builds, etc. not very good against burn, though, so pretty narrow.
leonin arbiter - the basis for mana-denial strategies. hurts stoneforge mystic considerably, though, especially if you don't run many lands.
leonin relic-warder - very nice card overall, especially if your meta makes you feel like you need more answers to artifacts/enchantments. just a 2/2 though, whose ability is sometimes dead. he can be used in the same way as oblivion ring (see section II, flickerwisp tricks, vial tricks #6) which makes him better, though.
kataki, war's wage - with the current ban list, this guy doesn't seem to shine in too many places, but he is still and option.
eight-and-a-half-tails - mana intensive, but if you feel like you can afford him and he would be good in your list, go for it.
grand abolisher - new, but testing has proven this guy to be very good in the side, even the main in some cases.
spellskite - nice blocker and can protect valuable dudes. slightly better in a version that splashes blue.
inquisitor exarch - this guy is pretty useful. against aggro, you can gain 2 off him, and against anything else, you can shock them. when you target him with flickerwisp, his ability repeats.
3cc
aven mindcensor - along with leonin arbiter, this guy can really hurt some decks and help mana-denial plans. he isn't a bad beater, either, and a decent sword-carrier.
stonecloaker - very similar to flickerwisp, but worse in many different ways. his graveyard interaction can be helpful though, and he does have flash, so aether vial is not needed for him to shine.
tivadar of thorn - if goblins becomes too popular/good, this guy could really help, along with the added bonus of a nice reaction from your opponent. goblins is considered a pretty good matchup already, though, but it's still and option.
fiend hunter - this guy is a journey to nowhere with a body attached. he is a very decent card, and he can abused with flickerwisp, but currently i've found oblivion ring to be more useful because it can hit anything.
emancipation angel - i don't like giving up flash for an extra toughness point (stonecloaker), but if that "3" ever becomes more relevant, this guy could be cool.
4cc
restoration angel - it's on the higher end as D+T mana-curves go, but it is a very sweet body with a very sweet effect. it can definitely be used as a 1-2 of in your list if you end up liking it.
galepowder mage - an option, but I find restoration angel to be better most of the time.
hokori, dust drinker - dies to removal very easily, and can hurt you a lot, maybe more than your opponent.
5cc
godhead of awe - if you have the mana-base, this guy is a really nice beater. he is also good against hypergenesis, and 12post. just watch out for annihilator.
1cc
path to exile - you should be playing this, unless you have some really wacky version of the deck in which this wouldn't be good.
oust - extra one-mana removal. shines in mana-denial, as the version is slower and needs to keep off creatures; plus your opponent might not be able to cast it again next time. ghost quarter can also shuffle it away. not as good for aggro lists, though, as it gains them life. it's a decent sideboard card for just about any list; just bring it in against creature based lists.
sunlance - sorcery speed, can't hit a player and only hits non-white creatures... still not a bad option if you want it.
silence - storm (and similar decks) hate. i prefer canonist, because it sticks around and can hurt people, but this is still a nice option.
mana tithe - if you have a higher curve and more mana, this can help stall for you. or just play it if you want to keep your opponents in check. not a bad card, but only for the right lists / people.
2cc
disenchant - pretty straightforward. a little boring, but effective. you might consider leonin relic-warder over this, though.
devouring light - with a long discussion, we found this to be the next best removal after path. kinda clunky looking, but effective.
4cc
wrath of god/day of judgment: a little expensive sometimes for decks without much lands, and a lot of times it's an ineffective dead card. but still, some decks might like it. DoJ can go with knight of the holy nimbus nicely, as a side note.
specter's shroud - i like sword of feast and famine better, but if you'd rather this card, its an option.
thorn of amethyst - good against combo, or builds that are pretty much all creatures.
mask of memory - another mystic equipment option, that provides card draw. also keeps your jotun grunt alive longer.
journey to nowhere - creature removal, with interactions (see section II, flickerwisp tricks, aether vial tricks #6). you should almost always run a few straight-up removal cards though, as they can just get back their creature if they can kill it.
ratchet bomb - sideboard material that has it's uses.
honor of the pure - more of a classic WW card than a D+T card, but that doesn't make it bad. if you play spectral procession, you have even more advantage.
flickerform - really nice with mangara of corondor. it's like karakas all over again. a costly, as well as narrow, but you can also use it on your opponent's creatures which is nice.
3cc
mimic vat - really nice card, but better with builds that focus around it. alot of exiling goes on in D+T, but it's nice to bring back 'wisp over and over again.
crystal shard - WAY better in versions with blue. but it is also like karakas in a way that you can repeat mangara over and over again. you can also bounce your opponents creatures if need be.
oblivion ring - see journey to nowhere. this probably finds more homes than jtn though.
sword of fire and ice - one of the best swords to run. it can kill creatures and do extra damage, while drawing you cards (which is very important to this deck). pro blue doesn't seem as good in this format as it does in legacy, but it's still good, and pro red is awesome.
sword of light and shadow - it's really hard to say which of these two is the best. SoLS gives you protection from the two colors with the most removal, as well as batterskull, tombstalker, etc. gaining life is nice, but getting back a creature is HUGE. i'd say this is the better sword for lists with a larger control aspect, and SoFI is better for more aggressive lists.
sword of body and mind - 3rd best sword. the milling is relevant against some combos, and the extra 2/2 is awesome. better for aggro versions. pro green is also relevant.
sword of feast and famine - both abilities are pretty much irrelevant. play it if it's your only option, or want something that gives both pro black and green (for whatever reason). it happens to be the best sword in "Stax N Tax", a list found in "deck directions", just because it untaps your lands, which is really relevant. In other lists it can be OK as well, but my experience has shown that it's not good to have in most lists (or at least worse than the other swords).
sword of war and peace - doesn't do too much either. it's decent in aggro builds, but i like sword of body and mind better, because of the 2/2.
ghostly prison - sideboard card against fast decks with a lot of creatures.
ensnaring bridge - if this card fits your deck, and you want to play it, play it.
4cc
elspeth, knight-errant - pretty much the only playable planeswalker here. it's good, but don't play to many unless you have the right amount of lands.
5cc
batterskull - it was awesome with stoneforge mystic. unfortunately, SFM just got banned, so that kinda sucks. it still is a decent card option though.
eiganjo castle - if you run a lot of legends, go for it.
mutavault - in aggro lists without steppe lynx (lynx uses up alot of land slots), this card isn't too shabby.
horizon canopy - decent, especially in WG builds. kinda sucks if you need to ping yourself while playing against burn, zoo, or any aggro deck.
tectonic edge - you should play some of these, even if you aren't playing mana-denial. stopping man-lands and the grove/punish combo is really big.
ghost quarter - similar to tectonic edge, but generally worse, unless you play steppe lynx aggro. hitting your own flagstones and letting you search for 2 lands is pretty good. (edit, with the new leonin arbiter / aven mindcensor strategy, its actually better than tec edge)
windbrisk heights - very nice. i'd run it in a more aggro version with less tec edge and ghost quarter though.
V. Matchups
great against:
- Redless Tron (Search denial, land destruction, beats. It's generally pretty hard for them to win.) 70-75%
good against:
- Red Tron (Same as redless tron but pyroclasm can hurt.) 65-70%
- Jund (Our lifegain, tricks, and large amounts of permanents usually works. Just pilot it well.) 60%
- WBG (About the same as Jund, though maybe slightly worse because of their painfully large dudes.) 55-60%
- Control (Most versions we can do pretty well with. Aether vial, thalia, and constant threats helps a lot.) 55-60%
medium against:
- Affinity (g1 is slightly in their favor, following games are in ours if you have enough finks/inquisitor.) 55-60%
- Burn/RDW (Our lifegain can usually keep us alive while we bring the beats. Sometimes it can be a struggle, however.) 55-60%
- Zoo (Similarly to Jund we have the edge, but zoo can be too aggressive sometimes if we don't get the right cards.) 55%
- Pod (We have removal and search-denial, but let's face it, pod is good and can play around things.) 50-55%
- Twin (We have minimal removal but some disruption. Really depends on what you have in the sideboard.) 50%
- GW/Hatebears (This is generally a pretty close matchup that comes down to skillful combat.) 50%
- Scapeshift (We have search denial, but they can often play around it.) 45-50%
bad against:
- Infect (We have blockers and we have path. That's about it besides possible SB cards such as spellskite.) 40%
- Living End (We are a creature deck and they are living end. G2 we probably have graveyard hate.) 35-40%
- Soul Sisters (Warden and the like is brutal when we flicker so much. It's pretty tough to come out ahead.) 35-40%
- UWR Midrange (Lots of removal and counters, it's a pain.) 35-40%
- Bogle (Really hard to stop their huge hexproof guys.) 30-35%
terrible against:
- Assault Loam (Burn, goyfs, seismic, liliana, etc. It can be a nightmare but is possible to play through.) 30%
- Tokens (It's really hard to get through, but possible. Thalia helps.) 25-30%
...and once more, i'm continuously testing this deck as well as updating the primer. if you see typos, have any questions or comments, or just feel like doing so, please post below!
StP obvious subsitute is PtE. However, that goes against the land denial plan. And you can still have that plan (as noted before) if you play Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter. That opens interesting choices. Because if you want to run G-Quarter, given that there will be more basics in modern than in Legacy you should probably add Leonin Arbiter (and thus, PtE). Leonin should be key, as probably Stoneforge decks will be strong and numerous.
Also, depending on the amount of fetchlands and other shuffle effects, you could consider Oust as a replacement.
The last way you could work it is to use Dispatch. That, however, would need more artifacts --> up the numbers of Revokers and Equipment. That route maybe would open to the possibility of trying Puresteel Paladin as a draw engine and overall goodnes and maaaaaybe Porcelain Legionaire (in the place of Jotun grunt?).
As for other nonbasic lands, it seems like mistveil plains could be played to recycle destroyed equipment (put it on the bottom and fetch it with stoneforge).
I think that given that the format will be slower than legacy, Batterskull should be on your list.
batterskull is on my list. and i even play it in the legacy version lol.
anyways, i shall consider leonin arbiter. i can foresee it causing problems with our own sfm.
i shall add tec edge, but i'm not so sure about ghost quarter. i will add it if i add arbiter, but i don't know how it will do otherwise. they just search for a basic, and i lost more mana than they did.
i don't know about mistveil plains, i'll think on it...
i'm going to do some testing within the next three weeks and give a full report then.
This is the list I whipped up. Played a couple games (vs GWBR Vengevine, and vs Zoo) and I have yet to lose. My MVPs were definitely the search inhibitors, Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter, combined with PtE and Ghost Quarter.
Super heavy search tax is needed to play Ghost Quarter and PtE the way I like. I wish there was a suitable one drop to play. More aggro variants used to play Isamaru, Hound of Konda. Goldmeadows are nice, but I can't justify less aggro to put more in. Weathered Wayfarer is a good choice in Legacy sometimes, but all of the good utility lands are pre-Modern.
My most favorable turn sequence is something like:
T1> Vial
T2> Stoneforge
T3> Equipment, vial Arbiter in resp to a search ability -or- Arbiter, then Path something
That sets you up to easily equip and swing, thus fulfilling the "death" aspect of the deck. Opted out of playing Mangara or Grunt. Mangara's just not worth it without Karakas, and Grunt was just pushed out for more search tax.
EDIT: Dispatch is somewhat unreliable even in Tempered Steel decks. Without artifact lands, Metalcraft can take up to turn 4, even running Memnites and Ornithopters.
thanks for the feedback and testing! i'm probably going to try something similar to your version in testing, but (no offense), i still haven't gotten attached to this arbiter strategy. the old deck used to have every card work together, but with arbiters forcing you to pay 4 for a sfm makes me cringe. however, having a strip mine in the format is also very tempting.
EDIT: also, if you had a sideboard, do you mind sharing it with us? thanks
@lorgalis:
i agree that mangara is extremely important; however, i haven't tested much yet. i will try a version or two without, then get back to everybody.
Ah, no sideboard. Just whipped it up real quick to play on Cockatrice. I really don't have a handle on the Modern meta either. It'd probably be some number of utility creatures and versatile artifacts/enchantments.
Lorgalis: My goal with the list above was to start disrupting the game by turn two or three, and to most effectively capitalize on PtE and Ghost Quarter. Mangara doesn't have synergy with the rest of the build, and starts doing his job on turn four at the earliest, and only does it well if you have a Vial at three AND Stonecloaker/Flickerwisp in your hand, and on the off chance your opponent doesn't try to kill him off first.
In builds with Stonecloaker, he's obviously much better, but then you have to rely less on disruption and more on removal. I'd rather affect the game state continuously with taxes than remove their threats with the possibility they'll bounce back.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
Ah, no sideboard. Just whipped it up real quick to play on Cockatrice. I really don't have a handle on the Modern meta either. It'd probably be some number of utility creatures and versatile artifacts/enchantments.
Lorgalis: My goal with the list above was to start disrupting the game by turn two or three, and to most effectively capitalize on PtE and Ghost Quarter. Mangara doesn't have synergy with the rest of the build, and starts doing his job on turn four at the earliest, and only does it well if you have a Vial at three AND Stonecloaker/Flickerwisp in your hand, and on the off chance your opponent doesn't try to kill him off first.
In builds with Stonecloaker, he's obviously much better, but then you have to rely less on disruption and more on removal. I'd rather affect the game state continuously with taxes than remove their threats with the possibility they'll bounce back.
ah i see. btw, what are your thoughts on how leonin arbiter hurts sfm? have you run into that problem much?
anyways, keep up the testing, your insight will be very helpful!
also, if you don't mind testing with a list more similar to mine that would be great too. i'm not going to be home for a good week or so, and testing is impossible. if you do, let us know the pros and cons of each version! i'm planning on doing this sometime soon myself, but the more info the better!
I've been lucky enough in my games to go T2 SFM T3 Arbiter in most cases. Either that, or I don't see Arbiter. I'll test a version with Cloaker and Mangara, and see how that goes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
I've been lucky enough in my games to go T2 SFM T3 Arbiter in most cases. Either that, or I don't see Arbiter. I'll test a version with Cloaker and Mangara, and see how that goes.
ok, awesome, thanks!
id think that you'd run into arbiter just as much as you'd run into sfm though, if you run 4 of each.
with mom gone, our only one drop is aether vial, and there is nothing to vial in with one counter. of course the downfalls to the student are pretty obvious... paying a bunch of mana and then watching it die. however, if you do have extra, it doesn't hurt to throw it at the student.
could it possibly take the place of jotun grunt?
btw, this is more of a question for those who have played the legacy version and know the value of grunt. many skilled players do not view grunt as very good, and overlook stonecloaker/wisp interactions.
Goldmeadow Harrier is a decent one drop to run if you want to lower your curve. If you're looking at a beater in the 1cc slot, I'd go with Figure of Destiny over Student, because I'd rather react than walk into a trap. Isamaru is also a decent 1cc to run over Student.
Jotun Grunt doesn't have a replacement. In a Tarmogoyf heavy meta, it can turn the tables hugely in your favor. He recycles equipment that gets Thoughtseized from your hand. Even if he gets removed, I feel like it's not the worst thing in the world because he wasn't going to be around long anyway, and it makes it easier to keep an Avenger on the field for a turn or two.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
we could try outSundial of the Infinite. if we add Glimmerpost Stag to the list, we have 8 ways to exile a permanent forever, and we can use it in conjunction with mangara to exile a permanent every turn almost as well as we could with karakas.
we could try outSundial of the Infinite. if we add Glimmerpost Stag to the list, we have 8 ways to exile a permanent forever, and we can use it in conjunction with mangara to exile a permanent every turn almost as well as we could with karakas.
idk, seems like a very different gameplan than the deck is used to... there is just nothing really the deck would want to take out for those things. they take up too many slots, not to mention the stag is 5 mana and usually the deck plays nothing over 3.
however, a sundial deck based around sundial seems really good, or at least fun to try out. thanks for posting!
@other guys:
yah ok, goldmeadow harrier/giddeon's lawkeeper (m12) are probably better than student. thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
idk, seems like a very different gameplan than the deck is used to... there is just nothing really the deck would want to take out for those things. they take up too many slots, not to mention the stag is 5 mana and usually the deck plays nothing over 3.
however, a sundial deck based around sundial seems really good, or at least fun to try out. thanks for posting!
@other guys:
yah ok, goldmeadow harrier/giddeon's lawkeeper (m12) are probably better than student. thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
anything worth taking out for harrier/lawkeeper?
stag is only 4 and you don't even really need it since it already works with mangara and flickerwisp.
stag is only 4 and you don't even really need it since it already works with mangara and flickerwisp.
that is true, my bad on the cost.
but once i start going in that direction, there are so many other stuff to run with sundial, and i would start replacing a lot of key cards with ones that work with sundial, because i might as well. and then it is no longer death and taxes, it's a whole new deck. better in some ways, worse in others. it's a nifty idea, but i don't want to include sundial here. the only card sundial works with is flickerwisp anyways, mangara has got nothing to do with the end of the turn.
but i do appreciate the comment. it was a nice idea i thought on for a while. i might suggest that you create a sundial deck on this forum, unless i beat you to it (which i might, but i'm pretty busy right now). i'll be sure to check it out if you do. making turn to mist become a vindicate for creatures sounds awesome.
but once i start going in that direction, there are so many other stuff to run with sundial, and i would start replacing a lot of key cards with ones that work with sundial, because i might as well. and then it is no longer death and taxes, it's a whole new deck. better in some ways, worse in others. it's a nifty idea, but i don't want to include sundial here. the only card sundial works with is flickerwisp anyways, mangara has got nothing to do with the end of the turn.
but i do appreciate the comment. it was a nice idea i thought on for a while. i might suggest that you create a sundial deck on this forum, unless i beat you to it (which i might, but i'm pretty busy right now). i'll be sure to check it out if you do. making turn to mist become a vindicate for creatures sounds awesome.
i'm not necessarily sure we should run more things for the sundial, it would probably be no more than 2-3 so using too many cards that are only good with it probably wouldn't work out.
the best thing i think would be seeing if you want to use 2 or 3 dials then see what the best number of synergy cards to run would be (pretty much an automatic 4 flickers, but the number of mangaras is variable)
i'm not necessarily sure we should run more things for the sundial, it would probably be no more than 2-3 so using too many cards that are only good with it probably wouldn't work out.
the best thing i think would be seeing if you want to use 2 or 3 dials then see what the best number of synergy cards to run would be (pretty much an automatic 4 flickers, but the number of mangaras is variable)
maybe, i'll do some testing. i don't like the idea of having a card that only really does something if another certain card is there with it though.
but once i start going in that direction, there are so many other stuff to run with sundial, and i would start replacing a lot of key cards with ones that work with sundial, because i might as well. and then it is no longer death and taxes, it's a whole new deck. better in some ways, worse in others. it's a nifty idea, but i don't want to include sundial here. the only card sundial works with is flickerwisp anyways, mangara has got nothing to do with the end of the turn.
but i do appreciate the comment. it was a nice idea i thought on for a while. i might suggest that you create a sundial deck on this forum, unless i beat you to it (which i might, but i'm pretty busy right now). i'll be sure to check it out if you do. making turn to mist become a vindicate for creatures sounds awesome.
Turn to mist doesn't become a vindicate, they get the creature back at the end of their turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
Want Higher Level Card Evaluation? Visit Diestoremoval.com
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Updated 9/19/13
Designed by Tom
Welcome, this is the primer for White Weenie, or, more specifically, Death and Taxes (in my opinion the most powerful form of WW). Variants and color splashes are also discussed here. If you are looking for the legacy version, the first of the three links below will help. If you aren't sure what the modern format is, the second of the three links below should explain it.
Death and Taxes (Legacy; type 1.5) (Shout-out to Finn, creator of type 1.5 primer)
Modern Rules / Banlist (Thanks Wizards, for the great format :))
Heros of the Plane Studios (Thanks for the thread banner!)
Table of Contents:
I. The History, the Strategy, and the Key Cards (D+T)
II. Tricks, and how the Deck Plays Out (D+T)
III. Decklists
IV. Card Choices
V. Matchups
I. The History, the Strategy, and the Key Cards (D+T)
Death and Taxes started developing as a legacy deck when Time Spiral came out, and with it, the printing of mangara of corondor. The idea for the deck came from the interaction of mangara with another, older card; karakas. As exiling mangara wasn't part of his activation, you could activate karakas in response to tapping him, and return him to your hand before he exiled himself. Unfortunately your opponent couldn't say the same for his permanent you targeted. Aether vial also came in handy, because you could use this interaction, then put him right back onto the battlefield at the end of the turn, ready to repeat the same process next turn.
This was the basis for the deck; then came the add-ons. The word "taxes" came from all of tricks and cards you could use to slowly shut down the entire mechanics of your opponent's deck. The word "death" came from what happened to your opponent shortly afterward.
Then, Eventide happened, and so did flickerwisp. D+T was already a pretty strong deck, generally mono-white. But 'wisp had a better idea: make it stronger. Flickerwisp flew into D+T lists fairly fast, due to all of the interactions it could do just by itself, let alone with aether vial... not to mention it could pound for 3 in the air. It also allowed mangara to operate and come back for more without karakas, but just for one turn. If aether vial was out, the user would use mangara and flash 'wisp onto the battlefield in response, bringing mangara back to fight once more at the end of the turn.
As the years progressed, Death and Taxes became more and more powerful, and almost all lists were mono-white. D+T recognized the power of stoneforge mystic even before it made it big in standard, using it to grab sword of fire and ice, sword of light and shadow, and umezawa's jitte. Putting one of those on a serra avenger caused the "death" part of it to come even more naturally, while still messing with the opponent's cards to make him/her unable to do much but sit and watch in horror.
Today, it is still a very powerful deck. Underrated, but powerful. You can use the link at the top of the page to get to the legacy primer, in which myself and others continuously test it to make sure it doesn't fall behind in the game.
Now it has made it to modern, by its creator (me), with help from many of the below posters. The main thing that is missing is karakas, but the deck can still function without it. Mangara is still a vindicate with legs, and flickerwisp can still repeat his ability. Other key cards from the legacy version are gone as well, such as wasteland, rishadan port, mother of runes, swords to plowshares and umezawa's jitte, but in retrospect that isn't much compared to a lot of other decks trying to move from legacy into modern.
Modern D+T's History (Major changes in card choice trends)
[8/12/11} Now that stoneforge mystic is banned in modern, leonin arbiter can be played without drawbacks. This shifts the strategy to a mana denial strategy, which happens to be really good for the metagame of modern. leonin arbiter and aven mindcensor can stop fetch-lands (such as verdant catacombs) a good deal of the time, and both can make path to exile and ghost quarter ten times better. Mangara of corondor, flickerwisp, aether vial, and a number of other good cards are still hanging around and perfectly legal, and they contribute to the strategy and make the deck faster and more powerful. In the next section, there is information about what makes these cards good and how D+T should work.
[6/18/12} Mangara of corondor has been a very important piece to the theory behind D+T for a very long time. While he is still a good card, it's been found that he doesn't feel optimal any more. He is still a good option for some D+T lists, but as the metagame stands, he doesn't feel good enough for the mainstream lists; there is just too much removal, and the format is pretty fast.
[9/19/13} Primer has extended to also include mono-white hatebears and white hatebears with a splash. A very similar archtype with less blink effects, hatebears runs similar taxing creatures.
II. Tricks, and how the Deck Plays Out (D+T)
The deck is really fun to play with, but takes skill and thinking to master. Not a great deck for people who like to play more relaxed, but if you don't mind it's a very good choice. For people who like to put funny looks on their opponents' faces, a bonus is added. One can usually get all the cards needed from scratch for about $150, which is quite low compared to most decks out there. If you already have some of the cards, that price can be cut down quite a bit.
First off, you need to be aware of the sheer power of flickerwisp. Here is a list compiled of the many tricks you can perform with him/her/it.
Hardcasting Tricks:
1. Hardcast it to untap one of your creatues after combat.
2. Hardcast it on your own land to untap it, making it cost one less mana basically.
3. Hardcast it to remove a blocker.
4. Hardcast it targeting an opposing aether vial, engineered explosives, chalice of the void, etc. to remove all counters from it.
5. Hardcast it targeting your oblivion ring or phyrexian revoker to switch targets (when it comes back).
6. Hardcast it targeting your jotun grunt to remove it's age counters.
7. Hardcast it targeting another flickerwisp you own so that when the second comes back, it removes something for the entire next turn. (unnecessary if you have a vial out though, see vial tricks: #2)
Vial Tricks:
1. Any of the tricks above also works here.
2. Vial it in on your end step to remove one of their lands (or another permanent) for their whole turn (works better with a mana-denial strategy).
3. Vial it in to stop an attacking creature.
4. Vial it in response to their removal spell to save your creature.
5. Vial it in to save your chump blocker.
5b. Vial it in to save knight of meadowgrain or a first strike creature after it has already done its damage.
6. The most important (and most complicated) interaction. Vial it in to abuse the hell out of mangara of corondor, oblivion ring, tidehollow sculler, journey to nowhere, etc. Here's how (with oblivion ring as an example):
a. Cast Oblivion Ring.
b. With it's exile trigger on the stack (targeting, say, a Siege-Gang Commander), activate Aether Vial.
stack = 1. exile SGC (O-ring trigger) 2. Vial activation
c. Vial resolves. Vial in the Flickerwisp. Put its ability on the stack targeting your own Oblivion Ring.
stack = 1. exile SGC 2. exile O-ring (wisp trigger)
d. Flickerwisp's ability resolves exiling Oblivion Ring. Oblivion Ring's second ability goes on the stack.
stack = 1. exile SGC 2. return SGC (O-ring trigger)
e. Oblivion Ring's second ability resolves, returning the Siege-Gang Commander to the battlefield, which, of course never left in the first place - so nothing happens.
stack = 1. exile SGC
f. Oblivion Ring's first ability then resolves, exiling Siege-Gang Commander permanently (since the return trigger already resolved).
g. At the beginning of your end step, Flickerwisp's delayed trigger returns Oblivion Ring to the battlefield, exiling another nonland permanent as normal.
This also works for the other stuff mentioned above. Mangara is the best thing to use, however, because unlike oblivion ring, he can can use his ability anytime, whereas oblivion ring works right when it comes into play. And mangara is a blocker. In the next spoiler, i'll show the best way to abuse mangara.
As you just saw, the deck works together very well, and it has a lot of really good options. Stonecloaker is also really good, and lists shall probably run him too, but as you can see, he can't do near the the stuff flickerwisp can. he can only target creatures, and only yours nonetheless. And it has to go back to your hand. He does have flash himself, which is nice, as well as an extra toughneSs and an ability that hurts graveyard based decks, but that doesn't level out the balance at all. 'Wisp is still superior. The main reason to run him is that he works with mangara in a similar way wisp does (vial tricks #6 in the spoiler above). And he's an awesome beater as well.
Aside from the stonecloaker/flickerwisp interactions, here is an example of how powerful mangara is. He can totally change the game around:
Your opponent attacks with, oh, say, two tarmogoyfs. You have a mangara of corondor on the field, and a vial at 3. Now watch this:
1. Block a goyf with mangara.
2. Use mangara's ability targeting the other one.
3. Vial in flickerwisp or hardcast/vial in stonecloaker, targeting mangara in the same fashion as i explained in the spoiler above (vial tricks #6).
You lost no life, exiled a goyf, gained a reasonably sized flier, and mangara is either still on the field or in your hand. Wow. I'd hate to hear my opponent's thoughts at that point.
(Note: recent trends show that the metagame is too fast for mangara to be optimal. He is currently not in most D+T lists.)
III. Deck Lists
Here is a pretty standard example of a Death and Taxes list.
16x plains
1x eiganjo castle
2x tectonic edge
4x ghost quarter
Creatures
3x student of warfare
4x leonin arbiter
4x inquisitor exarch
3x thalia, gaurdian of thraben
4x flickerwisp
4x blade splicer
2x kitchen finks
2x aven mindcensor
3x restoration angel
4x path to exile
Artifacts
4x aether vial
2x kitchen finks
3x pithing needle
3x spellskite
2x stony silence
3x rest in peace
1x aven mindcensor
1x thalia, gaudian of thraben
This is an example list for Mono-White Hatebears, which is quite similar.
4x Ghost Quarter
3x Tectonic Edge
3x Horizon Canopy
1x Eijango Castle
11x Plains
Creatures
4x Dryad Militant
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Imposing Sovereign
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Aven Mindcensor
4x Aether Vial
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Sword of War and Peace
4x Path to Exile
3x Spellskite
2x Kataki, War's Wage
3x Stonecloaker
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
4x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
If you post a, well, different decklist, yet still effective, it could very well end up in this part of the section. The below are forms of D+T that really focus on one aspect of the game more than the others.
2x ghost quarter
4x tectonic edge
17x plains
Creatures
4x Martyr of Sands
4x kitchen finks
4x Goldmeadow Harrier
4x aven riftwatcher
4x flickerwisp
2x stonecloaker
4x Serra Avenger
4x path to exile
Artifacts
4x aether vial
2x sword of light and shadow
this list was originally submitted by Thraish, and i just tweaked it slightly to my liking (original ran arbiters and less land). Martyr of Sands is the big thing here, gaining you a huge amount of life. with a lot of fast decks in the format, martyr can help a huge deal. you can also sacrifice her to remove bridge from below when playing against dredge, etc.
kitchen finks can also be abused here. with sword of light and shadow bringing it back, flickerwisp resetting the -1/-1 counters, and it's own persist ability, you will have so much life that you don't know what to do with it. aven riftwatcher is brutal in similar ways.
4x ghost quarter
1x tectonic edge
4x flagstones of trokair
4x arid mesa
1x marsh flats
9x plains
4x steppe lynx
4x jotun grunt
4x serra avenger
2x stonecloaker
4x flickerwisp
2x mangara of corrondor
4x path to exile
4x spectral procession
Artifacts
4x aether vial
2x sword of body and mind
2x sword of fire and ice
this list i threw together as a more aggressive deck, that doesn't focus on the tricks as much. steppe lynx is the big one here, smashing with huge amounts of landfall from flagstones and fetches. keep in mind you can use your own ghost quarter to hit a flagstones and get even more lands! ghost quarter is also played to hurt the punishing fire combo (that's why they are run in almost any of our lists, along with tectonic edge). this deck is untested, so might not be the optimal list. it seems good, and if anyone has time on their hands and wants to test it, that would help a great deal :).
4x marsh flats
4x hallowed fountain
4x glacial fortress
4x tectonic edge
2x ghost quarter
3x plains
2x island
4x stonecloaker
4x ninja of the deep hours
4x mangara of corondor
3x vendillion clique
3x flickerwisp
2x baneslayer angel
4x path to exile
4x spell pierce
Artifact
4x aether vial
3x crystal shard
3x sword of light and shadow
this list is one i threw together after seeing more than one person with a similar list. it uses blue to abuse ninja of the deep hours as a draw engine. it also can run a couple counters; i chose spell pierce to make sure i get an aether vial down turn 2, and of course the normal reasons. D+T isn't very scared of creatures anyways, mostly other spells.
this deck uses stonecloaker over flickerwisp, mainly to bounce the ninja, attack next turn, use ninja, play it again, etc., and draw another card every turn. because this deck usually draws more than normal, we can run less of things, and even a couple baneslayer just because we will probably draw more lands over time as well.
mangara can also be abused with crystal shard. crystal shard can also bounce opponent's creatures, which is nice as well.
4x ghost quarter
4x tectonic edge
16x plains
Creatures
4x leonin arbiter
4x aven mindcensor
4x magus of the tabernacle
3x kitchen finks
3x mangara of corondor
4x trinisphere
3x crucible of worlds
3x sword of feast and famine
4x ghostly prison
4x oblivion ring
4x phyrexian revoker
4x ethersworn canonist
1x kitchen finks
i just made this off the top my head, but it is really good. amazingling powerful against 12post, zoo, splinter twin, and more. it loses to some combo, but for the most part this deck just straight up shuts down most decks. in much of my testing, i've made people go from 8 lands down to 4 with a choice each turn to either attack with one creature or play one spell. and that was a game with a slow start.
IV. Card Choices
There are many other cards that can be good in D+T, and this section goes through quite a bit of them. Card choices are important for each individual's metagame; my list is not necessarily the optimal list for the environment you play in.
I'd also like to give some credit to Finn for this section, as i looked at parts of his primer to help create this.
Anyways, this part of the section will take you through some of the other card options for different D+T versions... i didn't include cards that can't be played in mono-white (e.g. qasali pridemage, vendillion clique), as if i did this section would be really, really long.
*also, "cc" stands for "casting cost", just in case you didn't know.
1cc
isamaru, hound of konda - 1 mana for a 2/2 is always nice. legendaryness can sometimes run into problems, but still a decent option for the right deck.
elite vanguard - 1 mana for a 2/1, but isn't legendary. can fit into some decks.
steppe lynx - one of the best one-drops for aggro D+T in my opinion. with flagstones of trokair, ghost quarter (hitting flagstones), arid mesa, and marsh flats, this card can easily be swinging for 4 on turn 2, even for 6 later on.
student of warfare - if you find you have extra mana a lot, this guy will serve you well. more for aggro versions, though. saving him with flickerwisp also makes him loose all his level counters.
figure of destiny - similar to student, better in some ways, worse in others. the fact that you need all the mana at one time to "level him up" is really bad for the deck, but he's still a good card.
2cc
serra avenger - should be in almost any deck, especially if you are playing a mono-white version. lightning bolts are a problem, but she is still insanely powerful. you can put her in on turn 3 with aether vial, too.
jotun grunt - should also be in most decklists. 2 mana for a 4/4, 'nuff said. this guy can go toe to toe with a tarmogoyf and win, due to it's ability. the same ability that hurts dredge, reanimation, etc. Unfortunately that ability does sometimes kill it, but flickerwisp and stonecloaker help to remove age counters, keeping it around longer.
soltari priest - unblockable, pro red. sworded up, he can really get in there for some damage. can't block, though.
knight of meadowgrain - very nice card, especially in life-gain builds. if your metagame is fast, i would consider running this guy over serra avenger.
epochrasite - off of aether vial, and whenever he dies, he comes into play as a 4/4. i like jotun grunt better due to the graveyard interactions, but this guy is still sweet. he's an artifact, though, so watch out for qasali pridemage.
knight of the white orchird - 2/2 first strike, with a ramping ability. really helpful for lists that run very small amounts of land.
spectral rider - 2/2 intimidate, great to equip a sword too.
3cc
stillmoon cavalier - really, really nice card. really, really mana-intensive. for 3, i'd rather have 'wisp or mangara, and this guy continues to eat up mana afterward. great option for decks with a lot of mana, that want the tricks not to be as big of part to the deck.
spectral procession - pretty much a creature card, and i nice one at that. it leans towards basic white weenie more than it does D+T though. with honor of the pure builds, it can really pack a punch.
blade splicer - really nice card; with flickerwisp and the like it can get you some extra 3/3s (sometimes with first strike).
4cc
angel of jubliation - pumps up your guys, and has a decent body. 4 mana is on the higher end, though. if you feel you can support it, go for it. it also stops fetchland activations (as well as some other things), which can be very relevant.
5cc
baneslayer angel - D+T doesn't generally want high cc creatures, but if you've got the mana base for it, this guy is probably the best choice (for a high cc creature). equip him with a sword! now thats what i call a beating.
oversoul of dusk - really good as well, another alternative to baneslayer. protection is very nice, and if your metagame has more control in it than aggro, it might be good to consider him over baneslayer.
divinity of pride - generally baneslayer is better, but if you have a life-oriented build, such as "life and taxes", he can be dropped as an 8/8, which is awesome.
1cc
goldmeadow harrier / gideon's lawkeeper - seems like a draft card, but it is really one of the best one drops. one mana almost every turn can hurt, but tapping a blocker or stopping a goyf / batterskull from attacking can be key.
martyr of sands - crazy life-gain for mono-white. some decks can be based of this. you can also sacrifice her to remove bridge from below against dredge.
burrenton forge-tender - good against goblins, burn, and decent against zoo. sword of light and shadow can bring her back, while gaining you life, making it really hard for gobs or burn to win.
children of korlis - similar to forge-tender, but for any color. it doesn't have protection, and you actually have to lose the life first, but with sols, it can really stop your opponent for a while.
weathered wayfarer - really nice if you don't run much lands. if you have jotun grunt out, you can also search for a tectonic edge, use it, then recycle it back into your deck for next turn.
icatian javelineers - kills dark confidant, birds of paradise, vendilion clique, noble hierarch, etc. sometimes that one extra point of damage will get you there to kill a creature. i'd personally run harrier/lawkeeper over this though.
2cc
stoneforge mystic - {banned at the moment}
thalia, guardian of thraben - such a nice card. hurts control, works with mana-denial strategy, kills storm, has first strike and thus is a threat... lists should only stop running 4 in the 75 when storm no longer exists... until then, she is just plain awesome (and probably after that too).
kor skyfisher - pros and cons to 'wisp and 'cloaker. i'm sure you can figure them out.
kor firewalker - really nice sideboard card for burn and goblins.
knight of the holy nimbus - mostly a blocker, but a decent attacker as well. in a mana-denial strategy, he is even better.
ethersworn canonist - really nice card, but in my opinion more of a sideboard option. 3-4 is generally good, as this deck's worst matchups consist of a lot of decks that this guy messes up.
samurai of the pale curtain - also more of a sideboard card, but a very good one. really hurts dredge, and, if need be, early tarmogoyfs. dredge is not the best matchup, so this guy is pretty good.
true believer - a nice card against storm, discard builds, etc. not very good against burn, though, so pretty narrow.
leonin arbiter - the basis for mana-denial strategies. hurts stoneforge mystic considerably, though, especially if you don't run many lands.
leonin relic-warder - very nice card overall, especially if your meta makes you feel like you need more answers to artifacts/enchantments. just a 2/2 though, whose ability is sometimes dead. he can be used in the same way as oblivion ring (see section II, flickerwisp tricks, vial tricks #6) which makes him better, though.
kataki, war's wage - with the current ban list, this guy doesn't seem to shine in too many places, but he is still and option.
eight-and-a-half-tails - mana intensive, but if you feel like you can afford him and he would be good in your list, go for it.
grand abolisher - new, but testing has proven this guy to be very good in the side, even the main in some cases.
phyrexian revoker - this card is a 4-of in legacy decklists. however, without pernicious deed, sensei's divining top, umezawa's jitte, and a bunch of others, he isn't as good here. i'm testing him at 2 md 2 sd, and he does seem to be testing well, but i'm still not too sure about this one. he does stop planeswalkers, engineered explosives, equipment, opposing aether vials and stoneforge mystics, etc. basically he needs more testing.
spellskite - nice blocker and can protect valuable dudes. slightly better in a version that splashes blue.
inquisitor exarch - this guy is pretty useful. against aggro, you can gain 2 off him, and against anything else, you can shock them. when you target him with flickerwisp, his ability repeats.
3cc
aven mindcensor - along with leonin arbiter, this guy can really hurt some decks and help mana-denial plans. he isn't a bad beater, either, and a decent sword-carrier.
kitchen finks - using flickerwisp, stonecloaker, sword of light and shadow, and it's own persist ability, you can abuse the hell out of this guy. his stats are also pretty good. with the aggro meta, this guy is certainly maindeck material.
stonecloaker - very similar to flickerwisp, but worse in many different ways. his graveyard interaction can be helpful though, and he does have flash, so aether vial is not needed for him to shine.
tivadar of thorn - if goblins becomes too popular/good, this guy could really help, along with the added bonus of a nice reaction from your opponent. goblins is considered a pretty good matchup already, though, but it's still and option.
fiend hunter - this guy is a journey to nowhere with a body attached. he is a very decent card, and he can abused with flickerwisp, but currently i've found oblivion ring to be more useful because it can hit anything.
oriss, samite guardian - kind of a mother of runes type lady with a pretty cool orim's chant ability. most lists have better cards to fit into the already crowded 3cc slot, however.
emancipation angel - i don't like giving up flash for an extra toughness point (stonecloaker), but if that "3" ever becomes more relevant, this guy could be cool.
4cc
restoration angel - it's on the higher end as D+T mana-curves go, but it is a very sweet body with a very sweet effect. it can definitely be used as a 1-2 of in your list if you end up liking it.
galepowder mage - an option, but I find restoration angel to be better most of the time.
hokori, dust drinker - dies to removal very easily, and can hurt you a lot, maybe more than your opponent.
5cc
godhead of awe - if you have the mana-base, this guy is a really nice beater. he is also good against hypergenesis, and 12post. just watch out for annihilator.
1cc
path to exile - you should be playing this, unless you have some really wacky version of the deck in which this wouldn't be good.
condemn - another option of removal, i personally prefer devouring light.
oust - extra one-mana removal. shines in mana-denial, as the version is slower and needs to keep off creatures; plus your opponent might not be able to cast it again next time. ghost quarter can also shuffle it away. not as good for aggro lists, though, as it gains them life. it's a decent sideboard card for just about any list; just bring it in against creature based lists.
sunlance - sorcery speed, can't hit a player and only hits non-white creatures... still not a bad option if you want it.
silence - storm (and similar decks) hate. i prefer canonist, because it sticks around and can hurt people, but this is still a nice option.
mana tithe - if you have a higher curve and more mana, this can help stall for you. or just play it if you want to keep your opponents in check. not a bad card, but only for the right lists / people.
2cc
disenchant - pretty straightforward. a little boring, but effective. you might consider leonin relic-warder over this, though.
revoke existence - see above.
3cc
timely reinforcements - nice sideboard card against zoo or similar decks.
devouring light - with a long discussion, we found this to be the next best removal after path. kinda clunky looking, but effective.
4cc
wrath of god/day of judgment: a little expensive sometimes for decks without much lands, and a lot of times it's an ineffective dead card. but still, some decks might like it. DoJ can go with knight of the holy nimbus nicely, as a side note.
1cc
basilisk collar - an equipment option.
porphyry nodes - has potential... i think.
2cc
specter's shroud - i like sword of feast and famine better, but if you'd rather this card, its an option.
thorn of amethyst - good against combo, or builds that are pretty much all creatures.
mask of memory - another mystic equipment option, that provides card draw. also keeps your jotun grunt alive longer.
journey to nowhere - creature removal, with interactions (see section II, flickerwisp tricks, aether vial tricks #6). you should almost always run a few straight-up removal cards though, as they can just get back their creature if they can kill it.
ratchet bomb - sideboard material that has it's uses.
honor of the pure - more of a classic WW card than a D+T card, but that doesn't make it bad. if you play spectral procession, you have even more advantage.
flickerform - really nice with mangara of corondor. it's like karakas all over again. a costly, as well as narrow, but you can also use it on your opponent's creatures which is nice.
3cc
mimic vat - really nice card, but better with builds that focus around it. alot of exiling goes on in D+T, but it's nice to bring back 'wisp over and over again.
crystal shard - WAY better in versions with blue. but it is also like karakas in a way that you can repeat mangara over and over again. you can also bounce your opponents creatures if need be.
oblivion ring - see journey to nowhere. this probably finds more homes than jtn though.
sword of fire and ice - one of the best swords to run. it can kill creatures and do extra damage, while drawing you cards (which is very important to this deck). pro blue doesn't seem as good in this format as it does in legacy, but it's still good, and pro red is awesome.
sword of light and shadow - it's really hard to say which of these two is the best. SoLS gives you protection from the two colors with the most removal, as well as batterskull, tombstalker, etc. gaining life is nice, but getting back a creature is HUGE. i'd say this is the better sword for lists with a larger control aspect, and SoFI is better for more aggressive lists.
sword of body and mind - 3rd best sword. the milling is relevant against some combos, and the extra 2/2 is awesome. better for aggro versions. pro green is also relevant.
sword of feast and famine - both abilities are pretty much irrelevant. play it if it's your only option, or want something that gives both pro black and green (for whatever reason). it happens to be the best sword in "Stax N Tax", a list found in "deck directions", just because it untaps your lands, which is really relevant. In other lists it can be OK as well, but my experience has shown that it's not good to have in most lists (or at least worse than the other swords).
sword of war and peace - doesn't do too much either. it's decent in aggro builds, but i like sword of body and mind better, because of the 2/2.
ghostly prison - sideboard card against fast decks with a lot of creatures.
ensnaring bridge - if this card fits your deck, and you want to play it, play it.
4cc
elspeth, knight-errant - pretty much the only playable planeswalker here. it's good, but don't play to many unless you have the right amount of lands.
5cc
batterskull - it was awesome with stoneforge mystic. unfortunately, SFM just got banned, so that kinda sucks. it still is a decent card option though.
eiganjo castle - if you run a lot of legends, go for it.
flagstones of trokair - you only really want to run this if you run steppe lynx.
mutavault - in aggro lists without steppe lynx (lynx uses up alot of land slots), this card isn't too shabby.
horizon canopy - decent, especially in WG builds. kinda sucks if you need to ping yourself while playing against burn, zoo, or any aggro deck.
tectonic edge - you should play some of these, even if you aren't playing mana-denial. stopping man-lands and the grove/punish combo is really big.
ghost quarter - similar to tectonic edge, but generally worse, unless you play steppe lynx aggro. hitting your own flagstones and letting you search for 2 lands is pretty good. (edit, with the new leonin arbiter / aven mindcensor strategy, its actually better than tec edge)
windbrisk heights - very nice. i'd run it in a more aggro version with less tec edge and ghost quarter though.
V. Matchups
great against:
- Redless Tron (Search denial, land destruction, beats. It's generally pretty hard for them to win.) 70-75%
good against:
- Red Tron (Same as redless tron but pyroclasm can hurt.) 65-70%
- Jund (Our lifegain, tricks, and large amounts of permanents usually works. Just pilot it well.) 60%
- WBG (About the same as Jund, though maybe slightly worse because of their painfully large dudes.) 55-60%
- Control (Most versions we can do pretty well with. Aether vial, thalia, and constant threats helps a lot.) 55-60%
medium against:
- Affinity (g1 is slightly in their favor, following games are in ours if you have enough finks/inquisitor.) 55-60%
- Burn/RDW (Our lifegain can usually keep us alive while we bring the beats. Sometimes it can be a struggle, however.) 55-60%
- Zoo (Similarly to Jund we have the edge, but zoo can be too aggressive sometimes if we don't get the right cards.) 55%
- Pod (We have removal and search-denial, but let's face it, pod is good and can play around things.) 50-55%
- Twin (We have minimal removal but some disruption. Really depends on what you have in the sideboard.) 50%
- GW/Hatebears (This is generally a pretty close matchup that comes down to skillful combat.) 50%
- Scapeshift (We have search denial, but they can often play around it.) 45-50%
bad against:
- Infect (We have blockers and we have path. That's about it besides possible SB cards such as spellskite.) 40%
- Living End (We are a creature deck and they are living end. G2 we probably have graveyard hate.) 35-40%
- Soul Sisters (Warden and the like is brutal when we flicker so much. It's pretty tough to come out ahead.) 35-40%
- UWR Midrange (Lots of removal and counters, it's a pain.) 35-40%
- Bogle (Really hard to stop their huge hexproof guys.) 30-35%
terrible against:
- Assault Loam (Burn, goyfs, seismic, liliana, etc. It can be a nightmare but is possible to play through.) 30%
- Tokens (It's really hard to get through, but possible. Thalia helps.) 25-30%
...and once more, i'm continuously testing this deck as well as updating the primer. if you see typos, have any questions or comments, or just feel like doing so, please post below!
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
scumbag
Want Higher Level Card Evaluation? Visit Diestoremoval.com
batterskull is on my list. and i even play it in the legacy version lol.
anyways, i shall consider leonin arbiter. i can foresee it causing problems with our own sfm.
i shall add tec edge, but i'm not so sure about ghost quarter. i will add it if i add arbiter, but i don't know how it will do otherwise. they just search for a basic, and i lost more mana than they did.
i don't know about mistveil plains, i'll think on it...
i'm going to do some testing within the next three weeks and give a full report then.
thanks for the comments!
Mod&Taxes:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Serra Avenger
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
2 Goldmeadow Harrier
4 Path to Exile
Artifacts: 6
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Enchantments: 2
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Mutavault
2 Horizon Canopy
14 Plains
Super heavy search tax is needed to play Ghost Quarter and PtE the way I like. I wish there was a suitable one drop to play. More aggro variants used to play Isamaru, Hound of Konda. Goldmeadows are nice, but I can't justify less aggro to put more in. Weathered Wayfarer is a good choice in Legacy sometimes, but all of the good utility lands are pre-Modern.
My most favorable turn sequence is something like:
T1> Vial
T2> Stoneforge
T3> Equipment, vial Arbiter in resp to a search ability -or- Arbiter, then Path something
That sets you up to easily equip and swing, thus fulfilling the "death" aspect of the deck. Opted out of playing Mangara or Grunt. Mangara's just not worth it without Karakas, and Grunt was just pushed out for more search tax.
EDIT: Dispatch is somewhat unreliable even in Tempered Steel decks. Without artifact lands, Metalcraft can take up to turn 4, even running Memnites and Ornithopters.
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
thanks for the feedback and testing! i'm probably going to try something similar to your version in testing, but (no offense), i still haven't gotten attached to this arbiter strategy. the old deck used to have every card work together, but with arbiters forcing you to pay 4 for a sfm makes me cringe. however, having a strip mine in the format is also very tempting.
EDIT: also, if you had a sideboard, do you mind sharing it with us? thanks
@lorgalis:
i agree that mangara is extremely important; however, i haven't tested much yet. i will try a version or two without, then get back to everybody.
Thanks so much for the feedback guys!
Lorgalis: My goal with the list above was to start disrupting the game by turn two or three, and to most effectively capitalize on PtE and Ghost Quarter. Mangara doesn't have synergy with the rest of the build, and starts doing his job on turn four at the earliest, and only does it well if you have a Vial at three AND Stonecloaker/Flickerwisp in your hand, and on the off chance your opponent doesn't try to kill him off first.
In builds with Stonecloaker, he's obviously much better, but then you have to rely less on disruption and more on removal. I'd rather affect the game state continuously with taxes than remove their threats with the possibility they'll bounce back.
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
ah i see. btw, what are your thoughts on how leonin arbiter hurts sfm? have you run into that problem much?
anyways, keep up the testing, your insight will be very helpful!
also, if you don't mind testing with a list more similar to mine that would be great too. i'm not going to be home for a good week or so, and testing is impossible. if you do, let us know the pros and cons of each version! i'm planning on doing this sometime soon myself, but the more info the better!
thanks for your help!
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
ok, awesome, thanks!
id think that you'd run into arbiter just as much as you'd run into sfm though, if you run 4 of each.
with mom gone, our only one drop is aether vial, and there is nothing to vial in with one counter. of course the downfalls to the student are pretty obvious... paying a bunch of mana and then watching it die. however, if you do have extra, it doesn't hurt to throw it at the student.
could it possibly take the place of jotun grunt?
btw, this is more of a question for those who have played the legacy version and know the value of grunt. many skilled players do not view grunt as very good, and overlook stonecloaker/wisp interactions.
Jotun Grunt doesn't have a replacement. In a Tarmogoyf heavy meta, it can turn the tables hugely in your favor. He recycles equipment that gets Thoughtseized from your hand. Even if he gets removed, I feel like it's not the worst thing in the world because he wasn't going to be around long anyway, and it makes it easier to keep an Avenger on the field for a turn or two.
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
idk, seems like a very different gameplan than the deck is used to... there is just nothing really the deck would want to take out for those things. they take up too many slots, not to mention the stag is 5 mana and usually the deck plays nothing over 3.
however, a sundial deck based around sundial seems really good, or at least fun to try out. thanks for posting!
@other guys:
yah ok, goldmeadow harrier/giddeon's lawkeeper (m12) are probably better than student. thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
anything worth taking out for harrier/lawkeeper?
stag is only 4 and you don't even really need it since it already works with mangara and flickerwisp.
that is true, my bad on the cost.
but once i start going in that direction, there are so many other stuff to run with sundial, and i would start replacing a lot of key cards with ones that work with sundial, because i might as well. and then it is no longer death and taxes, it's a whole new deck. better in some ways, worse in others. it's a nifty idea, but i don't want to include sundial here. the only card sundial works with is flickerwisp anyways, mangara has got nothing to do with the end of the turn.
but i do appreciate the comment. it was a nice idea i thought on for a while. i might suggest that you create a sundial deck on this forum, unless i beat you to it (which i might, but i'm pretty busy right now). i'll be sure to check it out if you do. making turn to mist become a vindicate for creatures sounds awesome.
i'm not necessarily sure we should run more things for the sundial, it would probably be no more than 2-3 so using too many cards that are only good with it probably wouldn't work out.
the best thing i think would be seeing if you want to use 2 or 3 dials then see what the best number of synergy cards to run would be (pretty much an automatic 4 flickers, but the number of mangaras is variable)
maybe, i'll do some testing. i don't like the idea of having a card that only really does something if another certain card is there with it though.
Turn to mist doesn't become a vindicate, they get the creature back at the end of their turn.
scumbag
Want Higher Level Card Evaluation? Visit Diestoremoval.com