I built something similar to this and tried to include a lot of 2 for 1's. Blightning felt slow, but I liked having both Wrench Mind and Rise // Fall. Has Rise // Fall been tested by anyone?
I like having Dark Confidant and Deathrite in the deck, even if it means I can't play Ensnaring Bridge
I built something similar to this and tried to include a lot of 2 for 1's. Blightning felt slow, but I liked having both Wrench Mind and Rise // Fall. Has Rise // Fall been tested by anyone?
I like having Dark Confidant and Deathrite in the deck, even if it means I can't play Ensnaring Bridge
Isn't 8 Racks a little too much?
I played the last list I posted and love it. Frankly I would play more Bridges and Racks if I could.
And good lord is Dakmor Salvage great in this deck. I won a game with a Rack/Affliction/Bridge with just dredging into Salvage for 4 straight turns. Opp mentioned that he really had no way of stopping me from winning. He was on UWR Geist control. Games were close in the life total but I felt in control for most of the match. He won game 2 off of a great topdeck.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
No, because you it allows you to win quickly once you gain control of the game. They also force your opponent's hand, making them keep spells they would otherwise have cast.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
So yeah the second list I posted has been playing great. I just finished a match versus Affinity. Turns out they have zero answers for Bridge. And game 2 Darkblast just kept the board clear while I set up Lilly and Affliction. Won through damage from just 1 Affliction.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I think you all are turning this into a jund or death cloud deck, when it isnt. Its a control combo deck if anything. Keep the focus on discard, and not midrange options.
The primer construction is underway as well. I will have a bunch of deck lists and possibly videos for each variation. Let me know what you guys think and thumbs up the video etc.
4 Raven's Crime definitely seems like too many. 2 or 3 is fine. I'm surprised at the lack of Wrench Mind. Granted against some decks, it's awful, but pretty frequently it's a 2-for-1 on turn 2. Could even fit into the SB for that reason.
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You like Super Smash Bros.? Melee or Brawl? Check this out! http://projectm.dantarion.com/
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
A few notes about this deck and the other decks that appear on this page. Some of these observations don't apply to all of the lists.
1. Keep it creatureless
One of the strengths of this deck is its complete absence of creatures in a metagame overrun with removal. This means that a lot of decks have a lot of blank draws against us, which really hurts their ability to topdeck out of a bad situation. Given that topdecking is one of the main ways that 8Rack is going to lose, we want to make the opponent's topdecks as bad as possible. Most creatures, DRS included, don't provide anything that we can't get from a non-creature source. In DRS's case, sure he pings, but clocking is rarely the problem in this deck. He accelerates, but there is nothing that the current decks need so badly on turn 2 that can't be held back until turn 3. He gains life, but he doesn't prolong games long enough for that extra 2-4 life to be worth it.
2. More spot removal is needed
Right now, the Affinity, Zoo, and Pod matchup are largely dependent on drawing a Bridge. Pod is winnable without Bridge because some of their opening hands aren't suited for beatdown mode. But against Zoo and Affinity, not drawing a Bridge is game over. One option is to run tutors for a Bridge, like Beseech the Queen or something similar. This isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't help the super-fast aggro matchup because Bridge gets out too late. Heck, Bridge doesn't even win the Affinity matchup because they can just stick Plating on a Thopter AFTER he swings to get damage through. A much more reliable solution is just to run more spot removal. Because we are heavily in black, we can use the catch-all Victim of the Night, or even the underused Unmake (the latter deals with Persist, Wurmcoil, Voice, and other grave-based creatures). Geth's Verdict is another option, but less useful if we are also running Smallpox and Lilly. If we went green, Maelstrom Pulse is the obvious inclusion. But either way, we need to be running at least 5-6 spot removal spells, preferably 8.
3. Keep a second color
Mono black is good in principle but problematic in practice. Autolosing to Leyline of Sanctity is no fun. Being unable to deal with a resolve Cranial Plating is also no fun, especially when it can be attached at instant speed to sneak creatures under the Bridge. Turn 3-4 Karn is also a major problem in the Tron matchup, one that we just aren't equipped to handle right now. More than any other color, green solves those problems. Maelstrom Pulse alone is the closest we can get to Vindicate in the format, and it opens up some nice sideboard options as well.
Just looking at the deck that MemoryLapse posted on this page, here are the changes I would advise:
-1 Raven's Crime
-1 Duress
-2 Geth's Verdict
-1 Smallpox
+3 Victim of the Night
+2 Maelstrom Pulse
With 3 Victim and 2 Pulse, we will have a total of 12 removal effects in the maindeck (4 Lilly, 3 Smallpox, 3 Victim, 2 Pulse). Of our discard spells that can be shaved away, Duress and Crime are the least valuable in the widest range of matchups; drawing a second Crime on turn 4 is a terrible topdeck, and Duress doesn't hit the scariest cards in the aggro matchup. It's easier to kill any possible target for Might of Alara than it is to discard the Might itself. Keeping the Victim count to 3 keeps our topdecks relevant in the UWR matchup, where we can still get value from Lilly, Smallpox, and Pulse, but don't want to see too many Victims until the Colonnade beatdown starts.
I played against an earlier version of the deck against memorylapse, and i have to say i was impressed than, and i am more impressed now. In legacy I played a BU and Mono B discard/mill/control deck and loved doing it. I currently love the idea behind the deck and want to take a chance to make some changes.
@ ktkenshinx - if you see his sideboard, you get a chance to see that he does have extra creature removal sideboard for those fast aggro match ups (Go for the Throat, and Geth's Verdict) however, i do agree that he should probably have more mainboard. However, the removal of geth's verdict, i think maybe it should be put sideboard for emrakul since victim of the night does not stop that card.
FMN, modern. I won HA! Heres how I went. (PS long but worth it)
In here is the deck I used, and my card choices. Should note it's based of memory lape's list, but over the past three days Ive tweaked it to be green splashed with a few notable differences.
Over all: I'm not into the idea of turning this into jund. Adding Confidants and tarmos makes it feel like that. Adding in stuff like life from the loam to max small pox out isnt what I wanted to do either. Sure it can make it more comboy, but I don't know combo decks. I blow at them. I do know lock decks, as blood moon is one of my favorite cards. So thats what this is. Before you read on keep that in mind, everything powers the lock.
Also note, this deck takes forever to win. Bring food and water. I get grumpy with out snacks. its mega importent...
Lands:
7 fetches felt like enough with out going overboard. Overgrown Tomb- Green isnt nessarry to win, but its good utility with deathrite and decay Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I found fetch damage sometimes adds up in the aggro match, or against avan mindcencers, so I threw it in as a 1 of. It doesnt come into play tapped, makes fetches a swamp, so no real reason not to run it. helped a few times today. Dakmor Salvage Strictly for the sometimes raven lock. Happened twice today, and was really powerful. Worth putting in. Didnt wanna go over board with it, because I prefer lands that enter untapped, so 2 seemed a like good number.
Lock Pieces Shrieking Affliction/The Rack No reason to debate why one is better... they are both good, and they have both worked on different occasions. Run all of the torture chambers! Deathrite Shaman I'm sure people dont get this choice. It messes up with pox, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Well, it also sometimes mana fixes, sometimes it ramps into a turn 2 lili, and alot of the time, it turns your discard into B: splice in 2 damage. He works as well as any rack at times, and 8 wasnt enough for me.
Discard choices Thoughtseize Auto 4.
4 Inquisition of Kozilek Auto 4
4 Liliana of the Veil auto 4
2 Wrench Mind I wish I could fit more. Sometimes its awesome, sometimes its ok. Hymn would be nutz, but its not hymn. I felt the below was better.
3 Raven's Crime- I wanted to test that lock out and it was awesome. There were times I wish I could have gotten it off sooner, but its ok. I think 2-3 is the correct number, because though it is very powerful, more than 1 blows.
3 Smallpox I liked the small pox idea, generally I dont care about the cards in my hand, 1 life doesnt matter to me much, and I rarely have creatures out. The land part hurts, but can be justfied with Dakmor and the fact we only ever need 2/3 lands. But the tempo loss to the other guy with land is huge, the damange is relevent, and the creature kill is big. Oh and it discards. Cool.
Extras
4 Ensnaring Bridge As noted, we blow vs fast aggro. This makes it a little easier. actually a lot easier.
4 Abrupt Decay Sorta... Just a catch all. I wanted it to be lower mana then Pulse, but I could see a split or a switch. I liked the decay though (Uncounterable)
0-2 Vs jund
I cant control enough. Man lands got there the first game, then darkconfidant the second. Its just too much for simply hand control, I have never won a jund match
2-0 vs Mill
It was actually kinda tough... the first game I got down to about 11 cards left in deck before I stablized. At that point rack was only dealing 1 damage a turn wile I hopped to find something... Eventually I got wrack mind and started hitting for 3 and closed the game off at 5 cards left. Lilis ulitment saved me because I cut his lands down.
Game 2 I sided in leyline of sanc, mulled to 4 and got it. he sighed and conceded. I was like "No worries, thats how I feel when I see it too.
2-1 vs WRU giest
Game one was tough. I managed to keep him off of anything importent, and took his counters away turns 1/2. After that it was lili town. I dropped 2 shrieks, but couldnt get them off til I ran into a ravens chime. Small pox did work here twice, once killing a giest and second time killing a clique.
Game 2 he landed a leyline which I didnt expect, so I was like "Happens" and shuffled.
Game 3 another layline, which was turn 1ed claimed by nature. He mulled to 4 to get that and was like "****..." next turn I wracked some minds, then dropped 2 shrieks. He managed to stay above 3 for a bit by holding everything, but that wasnt getitng him anywhere, and me closer to a lili or a raven crime. at the end of the day he was at 14 and I had out 4 shrieks and 3 racks... And then I hit the lili and hit some discard. he promomptly went from 3-1 cards and was dealt 18 on upkeep. fun!
2-0 vs Naya humans
At first I assumed it was rdw and I paniced. I have no way to beat this right? I have a deathrite.... and maybe I can discard their burn... but shesh... Then I peeked with IoK and saw it was human zoo. I stripped him of his explosive things, leaving him with a bunch of 2/2s and fell down to abou 9. I made a misplay because he had a boros charm and grim in play. I should have stripped the charm to deal with the grim, but didnt, and lost about 5-8 life playing around it. Finnally I oust the grim with decay and landed the bridge forcing him on burn only. I dropped down to 4ish, but eventually got the peices I needed and fought back.
Game 2 I sided in damnation, and took out 2 ravens. Reason being is that lock takes a while, and Id perfer to stay alive.
Ended up getting the bridge online early (Saving grace) from there it was easy to just deal 1 damage with rack for a while and grind him out. Still dropped to 5. He was able to burn me to 2, but didnt draw the bolt needed. way too close for comfert
2-0ed hate bears
You think I shouldnt since half their beef likes discard... But game 1 I pulled off a turn 2 small pox stripping them of a 5th card in hand, a life, a colored land, and noble. If I've learned anything from play as hatebears its how utterly importent the noble is and how greedy my mana base is. So I left him with a ghost quarter and no strong turn 3 play. after that I double racked, and Thoughtseized (I had a lili in hand, but didnt wanna risk helping him.) he had nothing to worry about, so lili came down next turn and started to go.
Game 2 was way harder. He put down a turn 3 mind censor (Who sucks against us...) and followed it up with pridemage. This blue because pridemage wrecks us... And I had a bridge in hand. So I played around it by putting out a fetch land (Oh no! Aven...) then played a small pox. This read to the guy I was desprete for that fetch, since I sacced a basic. He fell for it, sacced Pridmage and then I cracked it, grabbed a swamp, and played bridge.
2-0 Vs Gifts (Read this! it was awesome)
Game 1 was the best game I've had with this deck yet. It was very back and forth for a while, and dude was chilling happy at 3 cards in hand. Then it finally happened. I drew ravens crime. I had a lili, raven crime, dakmore salvage, and swamp in hand, 4 mana at play. Play the swamp. raven's. He tosses a land. Replay of dakmor. He tosses a mana leak. Lili. No counter. +, he tosses a gifts. Stopped the combo!
After that he kept drawing a few extra, but dakmor/raven wasnt having any of that and kept him at 0 cards. eventually he fumbled, and lili's ulitment bought me some time to draw and find the final lock peice.
Game 2 I sided in leylines and natures. I mulled once to a wonderful hand of leyline and nature. He put out his layline, which was natured a turn later, I put out mine, which stuck. Next turn I Iok his hand. Iona, gifts, unburial, land. He had the combo. Lol. Game took a while as he tried to float above 3, and trying to get prosecutor but lili locked the game and it was over.
============================top 4======================== 2-0 Vs a weirdddddd time warp deck.
No clue. Game 1 he put out a turn 1 land, Utopia spwral. then missed a land drop and did it again. Then I small poxed and yeah, he pretty pissed. I guess most of the decks he played today werent really ready for combo, so he squeeked by?
game 2 I sided nothing in or out. He was clearly b/g so I didnt think there would b a layline or anything. He went off a bit better, but I a turn 2 lili wasnt letting anything go down. After that lili keeping his cards down to about 1, a shrieking and deathrite pings, it was over. He promptly left the store after this match.
========================finals============================
2-0 vs Summoning Trap
So at this point I found out jund lost against naya and hatebears and gifts, which is why it didnt top 8, because I was really weirded out that 2 oddish combo decks made it (let alone me...) but was generally relieved against this guy. I had an iffy 2 mana hand with 2 discard spells and a shreiking and a rack. I wasnt going to keep it unless he mulled to 5. Instead, he mulled to 4. I laughed and said. "sorry a head of time." turn 1 thought seize took a ramp spell. He played a land. Turn 2 mind wreck, now he had a card. Draw, wiff. Pass. Landed shreaking and an IoK, which stole a witness andddddd that was pretty much game. I still had fuel in hand. like 4 cards. It wasnt happening.
I still had no clue what I was playing against, so I shuffled and that was it for game 2. Then I Thoughtseize (PS it should have been IOK... but I messed up) and took witness. There was some off and on plays, but over all, I had complete control with my deathrite. I got him down to a land, had 2 shriekings in play, drew a raven's chrime and already had my dakmore in the grave because of small pox. I pointed the lock out to him saying "You have 2 turns to win, because this will recurr every turn if you hold cards. If you dont hold them, then I can draw into a lili or bridge."
After this he said my deck was unfun and also left.
Over allThe deck I tweeked, to be clear, is a LOCK deck. It goes through the same motions that a blood moon deck has. It can control, it can interact, but most of the time, if the other guy pulls out of the lock, then its over. While I feel a better designer can make the lock better, we should NOT try to shift the focus away from this lock. An earlier version I had had less discard in it and I was suddenly loosing all the time. Over all I didnt feel too much trouble with this. leyline helped (both kinds) damnation was cool, but I didnt see it today, and cage I just didnt use. No clue if its relevant, or if something like Torpor orb is better.
Also... I'm not going to play this deck at the store for a while. I felt lucky to have slipped through Naya, and not seen jund again... but aslo... this deck is really mean... lol. 2 people were like mega pissed at me (Not that it matters. That sweet sweet modern masters price was worth it.) Buuutttt I'll have to take some time off (just in the store, not online)
I tried to take as much notes as I could so you all could get a detailed report out of it. If you got any general questions, let me know!
The green splash seems really good. I really like the added flexibility of abrupt decay and the ability to board in answers to leyline. Worm harvest and Life from the loam might be interesting here or it might be horrible and dilute the lock.
Lantern- That is so awesome congrats man! I bet the smart folks here can come up with a solution to jund. I read your whole post, really interesting. So you've had a taste of pure grinning evil that this strategy delivers. I wish i could have seen their expressions as you steamrolled them. Good job man.
What do you guys think of a red splash instead of a green splash? I realize you lose some of the deck's power in Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay, but you gain Rise // Fall and Pyroclasm. Do you think it is a justifiable splash?
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I dont see a compelling reason to not include 4 Dark Confidant somewhere in your 75. This is actually the kind of deck where he shines the brightest, as the turns drag on his advantage takes you farther and farther ahead while he lives. Trimming their hand down to size make its harder for them to kill him as well, and the curve is low enough that he can sit out there for a long time without jeopardizing your life total.
As far as playing a creature is "turning on" their removal, its not so bad to make certain cards of theirs relevant that weren't before. Afterall, these dead cards are the ones they are pitching to Lily or Ravens or Pox, so the advantage you think you get by blanking their removal is actually a lot worse than the advanatage a deck like storm combo gets.
What do you guys think of a red splash instead of a green splash? I realize you lose some of the deck's power in Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay, but you gain Rise // Fall and Pyroclasm. Do you think it is a justifiable splash?
well basicly what your saying is "Red gives us 1 really good card that can sometimes be better than a mind wrench (And both are still bad hymns) and we can get a semiboard wipe to support our bridges.
Thats why (I think) green is better. it gives you natures claim to take out the one card that stops the deck dead in its tracks (red and black dont) and 2 different cure all answers (pulse and decay). After that you also get deathrite, which is gravy in the same way pyro is. Plus, if I really need a semi board wipe, I'll look to damnation, or even golgari charm
well basicly what your saying is "Red gives us 1 really good card that can sometimes be better than a mind wrench (And both are still bad hymns) and we can get a semiboard wipe to support our bridges.
Thats why (I think) green is better. it gives you natures claim to take out the one card that stops the deck dead in its tracks (red and black dont) and 2 different cure all answers (pulse and decay). After that you also get deathrite, which is gravy in the same way pyro is. Plus, if I really need a semi board wipe, I'll look to damnation, or even golgari charm
Yeah. I just wanted somebody's opinion on that matter before I dismissed or accepted that idea.
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I dont see a compelling reason to not include 4 Dark Confidant somewhere in your 75. This is actually the kind of deck where he shines the brightest, as the turns drag on his advantage takes you farther and farther ahead while he lives. Trimming their hand down to size make its harder for them to kill him as well, and the curve is low enough that he can sit out there for a long time without jeopardizing your life total.
I totally agree that Confidant, or a Confidant effect, is a natural inclusion in the deck. Playing him on turn 3-4, after we have already set up some kind of discard screen, is a great way to keep staying ahead of our opponent. That said, I might actually prefer to run the underappreciated and underutilized Phyrexian Arena just to dodge removal. The only difference between the two is the mana cost, and although that makes a world of difference in most decks, I feel like our lock can afford to have the engine come online a turn or two later. If nothing else, the 3 mana price tag might be justified by its staying power in a field dominated by removal. Abrupt Decay vulnerability is still an issue, but less so given our discard.
To really get a final say on this, we would have to test both cards and see which one came out on top. My suspicion is that Arena is going to be better in this deck, especially if we also have DRS for a turn 2 Arena to offset the higher manacost. But that suspicion needs to be confirmed with playtests.
well basicly what your saying is "Red gives us 1 really good card that can sometimes be better than a mind wrench (And both are still bad hymns) and we can get a semiboard wipe to support our bridges.
Thats why (I think) green is better. it gives you natures claim to take out the one card that stops the deck dead in its tracks (red and black dont) and 2 different cure all answers (pulse and decay). After that you also get deathrite, which is gravy in the same way pyro is. Plus, if I really need a semi board wipe, I'll look to damnation, or even golgari charm
Totally agreed that Red is not the way to go. Green is the strongest frontrunner right now, but I would also be willing to consider White depending on what tech we can develop through that splash. Path comes to mind. So does Mindcensor. If we had something decent like Vindicate in this format then we could definitely justify White over Green, but I'm not sure the current card pool supports it. For now, Green is probably the safer and more effective option.
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4x Lightning Bolt
4x The Rack
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Pack Rat
4x Funeral Charm
3x Shrieking Affliction
3x Lilianna of the Veil
3x Nezumi Shortfang
2x Thoughtseize
2x Immortal Servitude
1x Raven's Crime
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Black Cleave Cliffs
8x Swamp
2x Swarmyard
Funeral Charm: Opponent is hellbent, draws for turn, end of draw step, discard please. I hope its an instant or its hitting the bin.
Blightning: My favorite Alara card
Nezumi Shortfang: More Rack, more instant discard, revived with immortal
Immortal Servitude: for 5 brings back some */* rats, makes the opponent discard, and brings back a potential rack
Blightning felt slow, but I liked having both Wrench Mind and Rise // Fall. Has Rise // Fall been tested by anyone?
I like having Dark Confidant and Deathrite in the deck, even if it means I can't play Ensnaring Bridge
Isn't 8 Racks a little too much?
I played the last list I posted and love it. Frankly I would play more Bridges and Racks if I could.
And good lord is Dakmor Salvage great in this deck. I won a game with a Rack/Affliction/Bridge with just dredging into Salvage for 4 straight turns. Opp mentioned that he really had no way of stopping me from winning. He was on UWR Geist control. Games were close in the life total but I felt in control for most of the match. He won game 2 off of a great topdeck.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
This video shows an 8Rack with Smallpox vs Tron.
The primer construction is underway as well. I will have a bunch of deck lists and possibly videos for each variation. Let me know what you guys think and thumbs up the video etc.
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Duress
2 Swamp
8 Swamp
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Swamp
4 The Rack
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
2 Geth's Verdict
8 Swamp
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Go for the Throat
1 Geth's Verdict
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
1. Keep it creatureless
One of the strengths of this deck is its complete absence of creatures in a metagame overrun with removal. This means that a lot of decks have a lot of blank draws against us, which really hurts their ability to topdeck out of a bad situation. Given that topdecking is one of the main ways that 8Rack is going to lose, we want to make the opponent's topdecks as bad as possible. Most creatures, DRS included, don't provide anything that we can't get from a non-creature source. In DRS's case, sure he pings, but clocking is rarely the problem in this deck. He accelerates, but there is nothing that the current decks need so badly on turn 2 that can't be held back until turn 3. He gains life, but he doesn't prolong games long enough for that extra 2-4 life to be worth it.
2. More spot removal is needed
Right now, the Affinity, Zoo, and Pod matchup are largely dependent on drawing a Bridge. Pod is winnable without Bridge because some of their opening hands aren't suited for beatdown mode. But against Zoo and Affinity, not drawing a Bridge is game over. One option is to run tutors for a Bridge, like Beseech the Queen or something similar. This isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't help the super-fast aggro matchup because Bridge gets out too late. Heck, Bridge doesn't even win the Affinity matchup because they can just stick Plating on a Thopter AFTER he swings to get damage through. A much more reliable solution is just to run more spot removal. Because we are heavily in black, we can use the catch-all Victim of the Night, or even the underused Unmake (the latter deals with Persist, Wurmcoil, Voice, and other grave-based creatures). Geth's Verdict is another option, but less useful if we are also running Smallpox and Lilly. If we went green, Maelstrom Pulse is the obvious inclusion. But either way, we need to be running at least 5-6 spot removal spells, preferably 8.
3. Keep a second color
Mono black is good in principle but problematic in practice. Autolosing to Leyline of Sanctity is no fun. Being unable to deal with a resolve Cranial Plating is also no fun, especially when it can be attached at instant speed to sneak creatures under the Bridge. Turn 3-4 Karn is also a major problem in the Tron matchup, one that we just aren't equipped to handle right now. More than any other color, green solves those problems. Maelstrom Pulse alone is the closest we can get to Vindicate in the format, and it opens up some nice sideboard options as well.
Just looking at the deck that MemoryLapse posted on this page, here are the changes I would advise:
-11 Swamp
+3 Verdant Catacombs
+3 Marsh Flats
+3 Overgrown Tomb
+1 Forest
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-1 Raven's Crime
-1 Duress
-2 Geth's Verdict
-1 Smallpox
+3 Victim of the Night
+2 Maelstrom Pulse
With 3 Victim and 2 Pulse, we will have a total of 12 removal effects in the maindeck (4 Lilly, 3 Smallpox, 3 Victim, 2 Pulse). Of our discard spells that can be shaved away, Duress and Crime are the least valuable in the widest range of matchups; drawing a second Crime on turn 4 is a terrible topdeck, and Duress doesn't hit the scariest cards in the aggro matchup. It's easier to kill any possible target for Might of Alara than it is to discard the Might itself. Keeping the Victim count to 3 keeps our topdecks relevant in the UWR matchup, where we can still get value from Lilly, Smallpox, and Pulse, but don't want to see too many Victims until the Colonnade beatdown starts.
@ ktkenshinx - if you see his sideboard, you get a chance to see that he does have extra creature removal sideboard for those fast aggro match ups (Go for the Throat, and Geth's Verdict) however, i do agree that he should probably have more mainboard. However, the removal of geth's verdict, i think maybe it should be put sideboard for emrakul since victim of the night does not stop that card.
Green is also a good look because it can add sideboard possibilities (Creeping Corrosion, Putrefy, [CARD]Naturalize
[/CARD], Nature's Claim etc)
I'm gonna suit up a green variant of this deck and give it a try myself.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
In here is the deck I used, and my card choices. Should note it's based of memory lape's list, but over the past three days Ive tweaked it to be green splashed with a few notable differences.
Over all: I'm not into the idea of turning this into jund. Adding Confidants and tarmos makes it feel like that. Adding in stuff like life from the loam to max small pox out isnt what I wanted to do either. Sure it can make it more comboy, but I don't know combo decks. I blow at them. I do know lock decks, as blood moon is one of my favorite cards. So thats what this is. Before you read on keep that in mind, everything powers the lock.
Also note, this deck takes forever to win. Bring food and water. I get grumpy with out snacks. its mega importent...
The deck:
10 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
No one makes me bleed my own blood- 11
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 The Rack
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtseize
2 Wrench Mind
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Raven's Crime
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Smallpox
Lock assists- 8
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of the Void
4 Nature's Claim
2 Damnation
Lands:
7 fetches felt like enough with out going overboard.
Overgrown Tomb- Green isnt nessarry to win, but its good utility with deathrite and decay
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I found fetch damage sometimes adds up in the aggro match, or against avan mindcencers, so I threw it in as a 1 of. It doesnt come into play tapped, makes fetches a swamp, so no real reason not to run it. helped a few times today.
Dakmor Salvage Strictly for the sometimes raven lock. Happened twice today, and was really powerful. Worth putting in. Didnt wanna go over board with it, because I prefer lands that enter untapped, so 2 seemed a like good number.
Lock Pieces
Shrieking Affliction/The Rack No reason to debate why one is better... they are both good, and they have both worked on different occasions. Run all of the torture chambers!
Deathrite Shaman I'm sure people dont get this choice. It messes up with pox, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Well, it also sometimes mana fixes, sometimes it ramps into a turn 2 lili, and alot of the time, it turns your discard into B: splice in 2 damage. He works as well as any rack at times, and 8 wasnt enough for me.
Discard choices
Thoughtseize Auto 4.
4 Inquisition of Kozilek Auto 4
4 Liliana of the Veil auto 4
2 Wrench Mind I wish I could fit more. Sometimes its awesome, sometimes its ok. Hymn would be nutz, but its not hymn. I felt the below was better.
3 Raven's Crime- I wanted to test that lock out and it was awesome. There were times I wish I could have gotten it off sooner, but its ok. I think 2-3 is the correct number, because though it is very powerful, more than 1 blows.
3 Smallpox I liked the small pox idea, generally I dont care about the cards in my hand, 1 life doesnt matter to me much, and I rarely have creatures out. The land part hurts, but can be justfied with Dakmor and the fact we only ever need 2/3 lands. But the tempo loss to the other guy with land is huge, the damange is relevent, and the creature kill is big. Oh and it discards. Cool.
Extras
4 Ensnaring Bridge As noted, we blow vs fast aggro. This makes it a little easier. actually a lot easier.
4 Abrupt Decay Sorta... Just a catch all. I wanted it to be lower mana then Pulse, but I could see a split or a switch. I liked the decay though (Uncounterable)
I cant control enough. Man lands got there the first game, then darkconfidant the second. Its just too much for simply hand control, I have never won a jund match
2-0 vs Mill
It was actually kinda tough... the first game I got down to about 11 cards left in deck before I stablized. At that point rack was only dealing 1 damage a turn wile I hopped to find something... Eventually I got wrack mind and started hitting for 3 and closed the game off at 5 cards left. Lilis ulitment saved me because I cut his lands down.
Game 2 I sided in leyline of sanc, mulled to 4 and got it. he sighed and conceded. I was like "No worries, thats how I feel when I see it too.
2-1 vs WRU giest
Game one was tough. I managed to keep him off of anything importent, and took his counters away turns 1/2. After that it was lili town. I dropped 2 shrieks, but couldnt get them off til I ran into a ravens chime. Small pox did work here twice, once killing a giest and second time killing a clique.
Game 2 he landed a leyline which I didnt expect, so I was like "Happens" and shuffled.
Game 3 another layline, which was turn 1ed claimed by nature. He mulled to 4 to get that and was like "****..." next turn I wracked some minds, then dropped 2 shrieks. He managed to stay above 3 for a bit by holding everything, but that wasnt getitng him anywhere, and me closer to a lili or a raven crime. at the end of the day he was at 14 and I had out 4 shrieks and 3 racks... And then I hit the lili and hit some discard. he promomptly went from 3-1 cards and was dealt 18 on upkeep. fun!
2-0 vs Naya humans
At first I assumed it was rdw and I paniced. I have no way to beat this right? I have a deathrite.... and maybe I can discard their burn... but shesh... Then I peeked with IoK and saw it was human zoo. I stripped him of his explosive things, leaving him with a bunch of 2/2s and fell down to abou 9. I made a misplay because he had a boros charm and grim in play. I should have stripped the charm to deal with the grim, but didnt, and lost about 5-8 life playing around it. Finnally I oust the grim with decay and landed the bridge forcing him on burn only. I dropped down to 4ish, but eventually got the peices I needed and fought back.
Game 2 I sided in damnation, and took out 2 ravens. Reason being is that lock takes a while, and Id perfer to stay alive.
Ended up getting the bridge online early (Saving grace) from there it was easy to just deal 1 damage with rack for a while and grind him out. Still dropped to 5. He was able to burn me to 2, but didnt draw the bolt needed. way too close for comfert
2-0ed hate bears
You think I shouldnt since half their beef likes discard... But game 1 I pulled off a turn 2 small pox stripping them of a 5th card in hand, a life, a colored land, and noble. If I've learned anything from play as hatebears its how utterly importent the noble is and how greedy my mana base is. So I left him with a ghost quarter and no strong turn 3 play. after that I double racked, and Thoughtseized (I had a lili in hand, but didnt wanna risk helping him.) he had nothing to worry about, so lili came down next turn and started to go.
Game 2 was way harder. He put down a turn 3 mind censor (Who sucks against us...) and followed it up with pridemage. This blue because pridemage wrecks us... And I had a bridge in hand. So I played around it by putting out a fetch land (Oh no! Aven...) then played a small pox. This read to the guy I was desprete for that fetch, since I sacced a basic. He fell for it, sacced Pridmage and then I cracked it, grabbed a swamp, and played bridge.
He had no outs and it was over.
===================top 8=============================
2-0 Vs Gifts (Read this! it was awesome)
Game 1 was the best game I've had with this deck yet. It was very back and forth for a while, and dude was chilling happy at 3 cards in hand. Then it finally happened. I drew ravens crime. I had a lili, raven crime, dakmore salvage, and swamp in hand, 4 mana at play. Play the swamp. raven's. He tosses a land. Replay of dakmor. He tosses a mana leak. Lili. No counter. +, he tosses a gifts. Stopped the combo!
After that he kept drawing a few extra, but dakmor/raven wasnt having any of that and kept him at 0 cards. eventually he fumbled, and lili's ulitment bought me some time to draw and find the final lock peice.
Game 2 I sided in leylines and natures. I mulled once to a wonderful hand of leyline and nature. He put out his layline, which was natured a turn later, I put out mine, which stuck. Next turn I Iok his hand. Iona, gifts, unburial, land. He had the combo. Lol. Game took a while as he tried to float above 3, and trying to get prosecutor but lili locked the game and it was over.
============================top 4========================
2-0 Vs a weirdddddd time warp deck.
No clue. Game 1 he put out a turn 1 land, Utopia spwral. then missed a land drop and did it again. Then I small poxed and yeah, he pretty pissed. I guess most of the decks he played today werent really ready for combo, so he squeeked by?
game 2 I sided nothing in or out. He was clearly b/g so I didnt think there would b a layline or anything. He went off a bit better, but I a turn 2 lili wasnt letting anything go down. After that lili keeping his cards down to about 1, a shrieking and deathrite pings, it was over. He promptly left the store after this match.
========================finals============================
2-0 vs Summoning Trap
So at this point I found out jund lost against naya and hatebears and gifts, which is why it didnt top 8, because I was really weirded out that 2 oddish combo decks made it (let alone me...) but was generally relieved against this guy. I had an iffy 2 mana hand with 2 discard spells and a shreiking and a rack. I wasnt going to keep it unless he mulled to 5. Instead, he mulled to 4. I laughed and said. "sorry a head of time." turn 1 thought seize took a ramp spell. He played a land. Turn 2 mind wreck, now he had a card. Draw, wiff. Pass. Landed shreaking and an IoK, which stole a witness andddddd that was pretty much game. I still had fuel in hand. like 4 cards. It wasnt happening.
I still had no clue what I was playing against, so I shuffled and that was it for game 2. Then I Thoughtseize (PS it should have been IOK... but I messed up) and took witness. There was some off and on plays, but over all, I had complete control with my deathrite. I got him down to a land, had 2 shriekings in play, drew a raven's chrime and already had my dakmore in the grave because of small pox. I pointed the lock out to him saying "You have 2 turns to win, because this will recurr every turn if you hold cards. If you dont hold them, then I can draw into a lili or bridge."
After this he said my deck was unfun and also left.
Over allThe deck I tweeked, to be clear, is a LOCK deck. It goes through the same motions that a blood moon deck has. It can control, it can interact, but most of the time, if the other guy pulls out of the lock, then its over. While I feel a better designer can make the lock better, we should NOT try to shift the focus away from this lock. An earlier version I had had less discard in it and I was suddenly loosing all the time. Over all I didnt feel too much trouble with this. leyline helped (both kinds) damnation was cool, but I didnt see it today, and cage I just didnt use. No clue if its relevant, or if something like Torpor orb is better.
Also... I'm not going to play this deck at the store for a while. I felt lucky to have slipped through Naya, and not seen jund again... but aslo... this deck is really mean... lol. 2 people were like mega pissed at me (Not that it matters. That sweet sweet modern masters price was worth it.) Buuutttt I'll have to take some time off (just in the store, not online)
I tried to take as much notes as I could so you all could get a detailed report out of it. If you got any general questions, let me know!
The green splash seems really good. I really like the added flexibility of abrupt decay and the ability to board in answers to leyline. Worm harvest and Life from the loam might be interesting here or it might be horrible and dilute the lock.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
:symr::symw::symu:Control:symr::symw::symu:
:symb::symw::symg:Midrange:symb::symw::symg:
Modern Decks
:symu::symr::symw:Delver:symu::symr::symw:
:symw::symg:Hatebears:symw::symg:
:symu::symr::symw:Breakfast at Urza's a.k.a. mEGGaTron:symu::symr::symw:
Legacy Decks
:symu:Merfolk:symu:
:symr::symw:Goblins:symr::symw:
:symr::symu::symg:RUG Delver/Tempo Thresh:symr::symu::symg:
:symb::symr::symu::symw::symg:Dredge:symb::symr::symu::symw::symg:
As far as playing a creature is "turning on" their removal, its not so bad to make certain cards of theirs relevant that weren't before. Afterall, these dead cards are the ones they are pitching to Lily or Ravens or Pox, so the advantage you think you get by blanking their removal is actually a lot worse than the advanatage a deck like storm combo gets.
well basicly what your saying is "Red gives us 1 really good card that can sometimes be better than a mind wrench (And both are still bad hymns) and we can get a semiboard wipe to support our bridges.
Thats why (I think) green is better. it gives you natures claim to take out the one card that stops the deck dead in its tracks (red and black dont) and 2 different cure all answers (pulse and decay). After that you also get deathrite, which is gravy in the same way pyro is. Plus, if I really need a semi board wipe, I'll look to damnation, or even golgari charm
Yeah. I just wanted somebody's opinion on that matter before I dismissed or accepted that idea.
:symr::symw::symu:Control:symr::symw::symu:
:symb::symw::symg:Midrange:symb::symw::symg:
Modern Decks
:symu::symr::symw:Delver:symu::symr::symw:
:symw::symg:Hatebears:symw::symg:
:symu::symr::symw:Breakfast at Urza's a.k.a. mEGGaTron:symu::symr::symw:
Legacy Decks
:symu:Merfolk:symu:
:symr::symw:Goblins:symr::symw:
:symr::symu::symg:RUG Delver/Tempo Thresh:symr::symu::symg:
:symb::symr::symu::symw::symg:Dredge:symb::symr::symu::symw::symg:
I totally agree that Confidant, or a Confidant effect, is a natural inclusion in the deck. Playing him on turn 3-4, after we have already set up some kind of discard screen, is a great way to keep staying ahead of our opponent. That said, I might actually prefer to run the underappreciated and underutilized Phyrexian Arena just to dodge removal. The only difference between the two is the mana cost, and although that makes a world of difference in most decks, I feel like our lock can afford to have the engine come online a turn or two later. If nothing else, the 3 mana price tag might be justified by its staying power in a field dominated by removal. Abrupt Decay vulnerability is still an issue, but less so given our discard.
To really get a final say on this, we would have to test both cards and see which one came out on top. My suspicion is that Arena is going to be better in this deck, especially if we also have DRS for a turn 2 Arena to offset the higher manacost. But that suspicion needs to be confirmed with playtests.
Totally agreed that Red is not the way to go. Green is the strongest frontrunner right now, but I would also be willing to consider White depending on what tech we can develop through that splash. Path comes to mind. So does Mindcensor. If we had something decent like Vindicate in this format then we could definitely justify White over Green, but I'm not sure the current card pool supports it. For now, Green is probably the safer and more effective option.