What match-ups do you bring in Darkblast for? And what do you take out?
I'm assuming Delver, BOB, Noble H...
Same for Surgical Extraction...
Borrowed some cards from a buddy and am playing 8 Rack tonight for the first time at my local shop. Pretty stoked. Should be interesting.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Bring Blast in for Affinity, Delver, and maybe Soul Sisters. Nothing else. Take out Wrench Mind and Ensnaring Bridge, respectively. For Soul Sisters I take out a single removal spell for one. Bring in Extraction for Scapeshift, Tron, Storm, and maybe Twin. Take out (maybe) removal for Scapeshift and Wrench Mind for Tron. Not sure on others; depends on the list. I'm still not sure on Storm myself; taking in and out any given thing has its own pros and cons.
Robert if you were building 8rack in the legacy format what would the deck look like?
There's been some development on that in the Pox thread recently; I believe this is considered the best list so far (still needs a bunch of work, though).
On a more general 8 Rack note, recently tried to find my set of bridges and to my dismay could only find an eye-raping 8th ed one, plus a far more pleasing stronghold copy. As it turned out, my local shop has to of the latter type on hand. I'll probably end up finding the missing ones, but oh well. They're sweet cards.
Will be able to terrorize monthly modern tournies now instead of randoms on freeware mtg programs.
People at the shop will be very surprised to see me playing with something that doesn't run cryptics, bolts, paths, and cliques.
The 8 Rack build is a copy of Memorylapse's, but minus a Salvage and plus a Buried Ruin. Haven't asked any locals if there's burn being played, so 15 will also be the same boring ol' sb as Lapse's.
Unless anyone reps some other build more to greater anecdotal AND demonstrable results, I will come out and put in my- likely obvious at this point- two cents and posit that the build mentioned is likely where anyone playing the deck should start before making changes. It runs really well; be more critical of your play to anyone having a terrible time with it.
I don't think so. It's similar to delirium skeins and that's a fringe card. Hymn to Tourach would be sick.
I'm not sure how good 8rack would be in legacy. Legacy decks are completely gross in their capabilities to win fast. gush plus fastbond puts so many cards in hand that it's ridiculous. 8rack could probably compete against creature decks like survival of the fittest, oath of druids,or hypergenesis but those combo decks with tendrils of agony are nuts.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
I'm not sure how good 8rack would be in legacy. Legacy decks are completely gross in their capabilities to win fast. gush plus fastbond puts so many cards in hand that it's ridiculous. 8rack could probably compete against creature decks like survival of the fittest, oath of druids,or hypergenesis but those combo decks with tendrils of agony are nuts.
What abou replace our Swamps by Snow-covered Swamps and something about 3 Scrying Sheets? After the fourth turn, I think its a nice idea being scrying every turn to have more lands in hand to raven's crime (wich helps accelerating the discards when opponents is out of rack range) and filter our topdeck to something that we need, maybe a bridge or some wincon.
Thanks
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Modern
B 8rackB G Aggro Elves G UW Ad NauseamBR G Gr Tron R U U Tron U B Monoblack Vampires B BGR Jund BGR
I don't think so. It's similar to delirium skeins and that's a fringe card. Hymn to Tourach would be sick.
Delirium Skeins is in an entirely different world than Chain of Smog. Skeins is 3 CMC and both players discard 3 without a doubt. If I am playing 8rack, and you are playing not 8rack (let alone if I have a rack effect out) are you really going to copy the spell and force me to discard 2 more cards(likely 2 discard spells) allowing me to make you discard 2 more yourself? If your opponent copies this spell you get the chance to copy it back at them again!
It seems like 8rack could really use another 2 CMC discard 2 spell. Hymn to Tourach would be great but I doubt we see that in modern while Liliana of the Veil is legal in modern(not saying she should be banned, saying Modern is not prepared for that duo).
Chain of Smog seems like an excellent "finisher" discard spell for 8rack, and an even more amazing top deck when your opponent is trying to hold onto some card.
/e : Of course something like Gerrard's Verdict would be great too, but it seems that Chain of Smog might be more likely to be reprinted.
I don't think so. It's similar to delirium skeins and that's a fringe card. Hymn to Tourach would be sick.
I'm not sure how good 8rack would be in legacy. Legacy decks are completely gross in their capabilities to win fast. gush plus fastbond puts so many cards in hand that it's ridiculous. 8rack could probably compete against creature decks like survival of the fittest, oath of druids,or hypergenesis but those combo decks with tendrils of agony are nuts.
Yeah, both Gush and Fastbond are banned in legacy, but are really fun looking in vintage. I could see 8rack working in legacy with some tweaks (I've got my own brew I've been 'toying' with, the only serious changes to the 75 is I'm using The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Pox in place of Ensnaring Bridge (which is in the side), and I'm running Innocent Blood as removal as well as toying with Hymn to Tourach and Sensei's Divining Top). Legacy is an entirely different metagame and some things have to get tuned that way. I've been trying to follow others work on the legacy version (as well as pox lists as they are fairly similar) as well as other decks so that I can make it fairly competitive but time is limited. Vintage on the other hand, I'm not sure if 8rack could really manage the power of Gush and Ancestral Recall and the likes filling up hands.
I've often thought it would be funny to use this in a deck running Loxodon Smiter, Obstinate Baloth type cards. But since Smog is not legal in Modern and Legacy it just doesn't quite cut it... it's just a thought.
There any number of different evolutionary directions where Waste Not can go. Would it be O.K. if we take it out of the wrapper, and play with it for a little while? If and when it falls apart, we collectively promise that you can say, "I told you so".
I don't think so. It's similar to delirium skeins and that's a fringe card. Hymn to Tourach would be sick.
I'm not sure how good 8rack would be in legacy. Legacy decks are completely gross in their capabilities to win fast. gush plus fastbond puts so many cards in hand that it's ridiculous. 8rack could probably compete against creature decks like survival of the fittest, oath of druids,or hypergenesis but those combo decks with tendrils of agony are nuts.
Yeah, both Gush and Fastbond are banned in legacy, but are really fun looking in vintage. I could see 8rack working in legacy with some tweaks (I've got my own brew I've been 'toying' with, the only serious changes to the 75 is I'm using The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Pox in place of Ensnaring Bridge (which is in the side), and I'm running Innocent Blood as removal as well as toying with Hymn to Tourach and Sensei's Divining Top). Legacy is an entirely different metagame and some things have to get tuned that way. I've been trying to follow others work on the legacy version (as well as pox lists as they are fairly similar) as well as other decks so that I can make it fairly competitive but time is limited. Vintage on the other hand, I'm not sure if 8rack could really manage the power of Gush and Ancestral Recall and the likes filling up hands.
D'oh! I got legacy and vintage totally mixed up. I don't think any of the cards I mentioned are legacy legal. lol
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
What cards should I Surgically Extract from my opponent in the tron matchup apart from the obvious?
Try to use it on Karn if they are about to get tron? Or use it on something else like Expedition Map or the likes?
Karn, Eldrazi (if you have a lock and they're about to re-tutor and cast), Wurmcoil, O Stone, Map, Ancient Stirrings, Sylvan Scrying, Tron lands (if they don't have them all out yet), Nature's Claim, Relic (if you're in range of killing them or emptying their hand and need to keep your Raven's Crime going). But it's almost always just Karn and O Stone; if those are gone you've probably won (just keep in mind you need a Bridge for Wurmcoil).
There was discussion on the previous page about taking a flat 8 Rack deck and infusing blue along with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. This is my latest version of what Sled_Dog was talking about.
What abou replace our Swamps by Snow-covered Swamps and something about 3 Scrying Sheets? After the fourth turn, I think its a nice idea being scrying every turn to have more lands in hand to raven's crime (wich helps accelerating the discards when opponents is out of rack range) and filter our topdeck to something that we need, maybe a bridge or some wincon.
Thanks
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Modern
B 8rackB G Aggro Elves G UW Ad NauseamBR G Gr Tron R U U Tron U B Monoblack Vampires B BGR Jund BGR
There was discussion on the previous page about taking a flat 8 Rack deck and infusing blue along with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. This is my latest version of what Sled_Dog was talking about.
I'd like to see a version of this with a bunch of seemingly random one of's and severely weakened discard ability.
I prefer Bitterblossom over Pack Rat.as our alternative win conditions because you can abuse.bitterblossom even with a locked field from Ensnaring Bridge, also it's more efficient, resilient and evasion. I board it out in some game 2s but I would pack rat too.
As important as Ensnaring Bridge is in the deck that we maindeck 4, our alternative win condition coinciding with it peacefully is nice...
I've grown to kind of despise Bitterblossom. It's so inconsistent. I definitely feel you on the tokens always being able to attack but I just don't think it's worth it; if you play enough matches against enough of the top decks, you'll understand. It's often horrible against any decks with red, of which there are a lot, especially now. And against others it does little or nothing (Pod has fliers and Pontiff; Affinity has fliers and the ability to deal a buttload of damage quickly). Yeah Rat sometimes can't attack under Bridge but it does everything else we could possibly want, and consistently. And again, we do have the option to blow up our Bridge with Lily to swing for an alpha strike, which seems very plausible to me.
If blossom is a bit too clunky and painful while Pack Rat is counterintuitive with a cornerstone of the decks engine (bridge). Is there really not a more optimal alternative win condition or reasonable option to just not play an alt win con?
You are probably right about Blossom, but Rat doesn't seem.much closer to a fit either. Meh, otherwise I love this deck.
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Bring Blast in for Affinity, Delver, and maybe Soul Sisters. Nothing else. Take out Wrench Mind and Ensnaring Bridge, respectively. For Soul Sisters I take out a single removal spell for one. Bring in Extraction for Scapeshift, Tron, Storm, and maybe Twin. Take out (maybe) removal for Scapeshift and Wrench Mind for Tron. Not sure on others; depends on the list. I'm still not sure on Storm myself; taking in and out any given thing has its own pros and cons.
There's been some development on that in the Pox thread recently; I believe this is considered the best list so far (still needs a bunch of work, though).
If it were modern legal would it be worth it?
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
On a more general 8 Rack note, recently tried to find my set of bridges and to my dismay could only find an eye-raping 8th ed one, plus a far more pleasing stronghold copy. As it turned out, my local shop has to of the latter type on hand. I'll probably end up finding the missing ones, but oh well. They're sweet cards.
Will be able to terrorize monthly modern tournies now instead of randoms on freeware mtg programs.
People at the shop will be very surprised to see me playing with something that doesn't run cryptics, bolts, paths, and cliques.
The 8 Rack build is a copy of Memorylapse's, but minus a Salvage and plus a Buried Ruin. Haven't asked any locals if there's burn being played, so 15 will also be the same boring ol' sb as Lapse's.
Unless anyone reps some other build more to greater anecdotal AND demonstrable results, I will come out and put in my- likely obvious at this point- two cents and posit that the build mentioned is likely where anyone playing the deck should start before making changes. It runs really well; be more critical of your play to anyone having a terrible time with it.
I don't think so. It's similar to delirium skeins and that's a fringe card. Hymn to Tourach would be sick.
I'm not sure how good 8rack would be in legacy. Legacy decks are completely gross in their capabilities to win fast. gush plus fastbond puts so many cards in hand that it's ridiculous. 8rack could probably compete against creature decks like survival of the fittest, oath of druids,or hypergenesis but those combo decks with tendrils of agony are nuts.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
That's vintage you're thinking of.
Thanks
Modern
B 8rack B
G Aggro Elves G
U W Ad Nauseam BR
G Gr Tron R
U U Tron U
B Monoblack Vampires B
BGR Jund BGR
Delirium Skeins is in an entirely different world than Chain of Smog. Skeins is 3 CMC and both players discard 3 without a doubt. If I am playing 8rack, and you are playing not 8rack (let alone if I have a rack effect out) are you really going to copy the spell and force me to discard 2 more cards(likely 2 discard spells) allowing me to make you discard 2 more yourself? If your opponent copies this spell you get the chance to copy it back at them again!
It seems like 8rack could really use another 2 CMC discard 2 spell. Hymn to Tourach would be great but I doubt we see that in modern while Liliana of the Veil is legal in modern(not saying she should be banned, saying Modern is not prepared for that duo).
Chain of Smog seems like an excellent "finisher" discard spell for 8rack, and an even more amazing top deck when your opponent is trying to hold onto some card.
/e : Of course something like Gerrard's Verdict would be great too, but it seems that Chain of Smog might be more likely to be reprinted.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Try to use it on Karn if they are about to get tron? Or use it on something else like Expedition Map or the likes?
Yeah, both Gush and Fastbond are banned in legacy, but are really fun looking in vintage. I could see 8rack working in legacy with some tweaks (I've got my own brew I've been 'toying' with, the only serious changes to the 75 is I'm using The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Pox in place of Ensnaring Bridge (which is in the side), and I'm running Innocent Blood as removal as well as toying with Hymn to Tourach and Sensei's Divining Top). Legacy is an entirely different metagame and some things have to get tuned that way. I've been trying to follow others work on the legacy version (as well as pox lists as they are fairly similar) as well as other decks so that I can make it fairly competitive but time is limited. Vintage on the other hand, I'm not sure if 8rack could really manage the power of Gush and Ancestral Recall and the likes filling up hands.
Standard:
UR Control
I've often thought it would be funny to use this in a deck running Loxodon Smiter, Obstinate Baloth type cards. But since Smog is not legal in Modern and Legacy it just doesn't quite cut it... it's just a thought.
Waste Not http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/24857 It's now below my predicted $3 / $10 foil.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If I've offended you; don't take things so personal, grow up or you were in the wrong and I called you on your BS.
DECKS
Modern
BURGrixis TwinBUR
BRGJundBRG
WBTokensWB
URMerfolkUR
BDiscardB
WRControlWR
WBGMelira PodWBG
WGAura HexproofWG
URStormUR
WUBRGTribal ZooWUBRG
Affinity
WBRSquee's PoxWBR
WUGEnduring IdealWUG
WUErayo's QuestWU
UBRVile WizardsUBR
UGPolymorphUG
Legacy
BReanimatorB
GRCharbelcherGR
WUBRGRector Omni-ShowWUBRG
UDredgeU
BRGJundBRG
D'oh! I got legacy and vintage totally mixed up. I don't think any of the cards I mentioned are legacy legal. lol
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Karn, Eldrazi (if you have a lock and they're about to re-tutor and cast), Wurmcoil, O Stone, Map, Ancient Stirrings, Sylvan Scrying, Tron lands (if they don't have them all out yet), Nature's Claim, Relic (if you're in range of killing them or emptying their hand and need to keep your Raven's Crime going). But it's almost always just Karn and O Stone; if those are gone you've probably won (just keep in mind you need a Bridge for Wurmcoil).
Brack
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tezzert, Agent of Bolas
2 Dark Confidant
2 Pack Rat
2 Spellskite
4 The Rack
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Waste Not
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
1 Consult the Necrosages
1 Damnation
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Mutavault
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Watery Grave
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Academy Ruins
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Darkblast
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Spellskite
Thanks
Modern
B 8rack B
G Aggro Elves G
U W Ad Nauseam BR
G Gr Tron R
U U Tron U
B Monoblack Vampires B
BGR Jund BGR
I'd like to see a version of this with a bunch of seemingly random one of's and severely weakened discard ability.
As important as Ensnaring Bridge is in the deck that we maindeck 4, our alternative win condition coinciding with it peacefully is nice...
You are probably right about Blossom, but Rat doesn't seem.much closer to a fit either. Meh, otherwise I love this deck.