Only issue with this is that the Rancor would resolve before BBE is even on the battlefield.
Due to weirdddd cascade awesome rules! And I dont like Rancor in bigger builds. Bigger builds want to be more midrange, that card seems way to aggro. I can't even see it in bant after testing, only little zoo.
Well pants, if you take a closer look at my quick mashup list above, you'll notice there is no Rancor in there. I'm sure it's viable in some builds, but I can't say I'm totally confident in it. And yes, BBE into Rancor with no other dudes in play certainly blows. Rancor in general with no dudes in play is a problem. I was more excited about the BBE into Ajani synergy, which is pretty nice. But Ajani still has the same problems as Rancor with no other dudes in play.
EDIT: I guess I did mention the 5/3 BBE Rancor idea earlier in my post, which was also a mistake considering Elf would only be 5/2 trample. That's what happens when you are just theory crafting though I guess. Either way, I like the idea of Rancor, but I'm not sure how I would actually incorporate it into Zoo. Cards like that are tough, because they can sometimes be great, and other times just be dead. It's hard enough to fit in all the creatures and removal in a Zoo deck without having to cut cards for enhancement cards like Rancor. And in Zoo, you never want to be drawing dead in the late game, so hitting something like Elspeth, Burn, or another creature is still preferable to cards like Rancor (and Ajani). My instinct is that R/G Aggro deck featuring Nobles, Kird Apes, Goblin Guides, Goyfs, Strangleroots, and maybe the Rancors could be pretty solid. Hasty Groundpounders.dec.
I still can't get over the fact that Wild Nacatl is banned. What the actual f**k? It just doesn't make sense.
And yet Goyf remains untouched, the $100 irreplaceable creature card in every deck that plays forests in Modern/Legacy.
-offtopic rant over
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:bicycle::bicycle::teamwork::bicycle::bicycle:
Modern: GRB Jund RGB Legacy: B The Gate B U Mermaids & Ninja Faeries U Vintage: BBB Dark Depths featuring Bob and friends BBB Elder Dragon Highlander: URR Jhoira of the Eldrazi ApocalypseRUU
I still can't get over the fact that Wild Nacatl is banned. What the actual f**k? It just doesn't make sense.
And yet Goyf remains untouched, the $100 irreplaceable creature card in every deck that plays forests in Modern/Legacy.
-offtopic rant over
its not necessarily off topic. The hit from nacatl was way greater then I imagined it could be. It honestly took zoo from the best deck, to a lower area on tier 1. I still think its teir 1 since it HIGHLY tweekable to metas, but you need to be smart with creature choices.
Still if Nacatl was in, I assure you this would be the best deck in existance with rancor coming out...
Still the question remains with Rancor and ajani coming, big zoo or little zoo?
From testing I've found if your running little zoo, youd rather have rancor, and no ajani. Knight is better in the spot, and if a game goes long you'd rather have elspeth as a 1 of. Our 1 drops are pretty strong, and hooking them up with a rancor (Thalia being a 4/1 first strike is worth the extra) is amazing.
In big zoo (add boom bust if you like) Rancor is less good, as your creatures focus more on midgame, when it is less useful. But bloodbraiding into an ajani, or giving a knight flying double, can end the game right there.
I think big zoo is more powerful, and allows for a lot of tricks, but gives you a worse matchup against jund and control/tempo Where small zoo could fizzle... but is more consistent.
If anything though I'm glad people are talking more about zoo now at least.
I keep Finding the Card to Beat right now is Restoration Angel, she has so many uses right now it kinda silly. Blink a Finks to gain more life? Hell i got combo'd out with her/kiki jiki. Not to mention a 3/4 Flyer is also a pain to Deal without Pumps or a Psionic Blast. Any Ideas or Tips?
I keep Finding the Card to Beat right now is Restoration Angel, she has so many uses right now it kinda silly. Blink a Finks to gain more life? Hell i got combo'd out with her/kiki jiki. Not to mention a 3/4 Flyer is also a pain to Deal without Pumps or a Psionic Blast. Any Ideas or Tips?
Path. Or go faster. Shes hard to deal with, thats for sure. That deck is a real deck and truth be told it scares the crap out of me with how interactive it is...
Blue zoo trades speed and brute burning and rasing for more tricks and a worse mana base. It felt too much like a gimmick to me, like bad bant with burn, but then again, I'm an all in aggro guy, and I have seen the deck run to good effect. Not to mention Giest is a real dude.
Honestly that angel is a pain... but that deck HATES topor orb.
On a side note, you should run at least 2 of those "prevent 2 damage to legendary creature" lands (name escapes me) since your running 7 of them. Toss in the hound, and you could be up to 9.
I can C ur Point, The Reason i got into Blue Zoo was cuz of Worlds and the Counter-cat Deck Conley used.I know it was back when Zoo was everywhere and the Meta has vastly changed but, i still dont C y using this as a Core, update and tweek based on the Leading decks couldnt be a house again
I can C ur Point, The Reason i got into Blue Zoo was cuz of Worlds and the Counter-cat Deck Conley used.I know it was back when Zoo was everywhere and the Meta has vastly changed but, i still dont C y using this as a Core, update and tweek based on the Leading decks couldnt be a house again
And theres no reason not to. Blue Zoo has done pretty well, infact if you look at the primer, under dailies, you'll find 2 lists that have one recently I beleive.
Im running a Proc-Small Zoo and have one question. Does the rule 'if you play green, play Goyf' applies for this deck. Because I tested it for a long time and now I'm not happy with it. Usually, he is a 2-3 power, 4 power is very rare because i run only two sorceries. And he is very rarely strong 2nd drop becouse at that turn most of the time only land and maybe one instans are in graves. So 2nd turn 2/3 for 2 is not what i want from my second drop. Don't know, maybe I just play it wrong, need so comments about it, but for now I'm testin KotR in it's place.
And BTW sorry for my grammar
Honestly Goyf is rarely a turn 2 play in modern. You never want to drop him until he can survive a bolt. But he allows you to have a threat at 2 mana later in the game (meaning your curve can top out at 2 and still have a bomb, rather than 6 cmc for a titan, in standard)
So run your 1 drops out there. if they hit removal, or a wipe, drop him after. Plus, fetchland, they bolt a little dude, your little dude, makes goyf a 3/4
Knight could be good if your mana supports it, and you have enough fetches. But I wouldnt depend on it for land tricks in small zoo, only as a beater. She also makes lynx an 8/9 alot of the time.
Spellbreaker, I think from your list I would just cut Sigarda and add in the 4th Bloodbraid Elf. Bloodbraid is too goo to go below 4 in this deck if you're running her. She keeps up the pressure. Also, 21 lands, even with Nobles, is a little ambitious to be casting all those 3-5 drops. I'd consider adding a 22nd land. Finally, I'd cut Psi Blast for something better, like the other 2 Path to Exiles. You mentioned Restoration Angel being a problem, which also brings to mind Splinter Twin, Finks, and Melira Pod. Path deals with every creature in that category for 1 mana, which is significantly less than 3 mana. Also, Psi Blast is for nonred decks, we have plenty of better burn options if we want them. EDIT: I am curious to see the decklist you played against running Kiki-Jiki and Restoration Angel. I assume it was U/R Twin splashing White for SB tricks?
Lantern, not sure exactly what you were saying about Small Zoo vs. Big Zoo, but in general I would say that if you expect a large amount of other creature decks in your meta, than Big Zoo is likely better. If you're more worried about Combo and Control, Small Zoo is your man. Big Naya Zoo has similarities to Bant and Jund, depending on how you build it, but if built right it can do pretty well in the right meta. I tend to prefer Small Zoo (usually with a few midrange cards though), which is why I'm currently running straight Boros at the moment (Boros is built similar to fast Zoo, but at the moment I feel it has better consistency and can abuse Thalia very well). If I were to run Zoo right now, it would probably be for cards like Bloodbraid Elf, Knight of the Reliquary, and possibly Ajani 3.0.
I prefer Lions over Lynxes, becouse Lynxes are terrible mid-late game. Ofcourse Zoo should win as fast as possible, but not always things goes in our favour. And Lion is always 2/3 for one mana, where topdecked Lynxis just 0/1, waiting for a land to became bigger. And chances to draw a land late game are very low, becouse if you run Lynx, you run fetches and fetches make your library tinner by redusing land count in it. If you want 4 damage for 1 mana, i wour rather play Vexing Deveils, becouse Lynx hits opponend mostly only one time anyway, so its the same
Lynxes arent bad so long as your also running Knight, as well as a fetchable slayer stronghold
If you can get to 6 mana before tron rips you apart. Its got 2 things going against it. 1, its 6 mana which is too slow for us, and 2. they get to 6 or more mana by turn 4.
As it doesn't hit your creatures, it could work. It also depends on how much mana you have at the end of the day. I usually have 4, which means non miracled, I'd be hitting for 1.
Honestly I would just either burn the creatures one by one, and artifact kill the swords. If your small zoo you could always just race them. If you told me what were the specific cards you were trying to fight against, I could help you more
Due to weirdddd cascade awesome rules! And I dont like Rancor in bigger builds. Bigger builds want to be more midrange, that card seems way to aggro. I can't even see it in bant after testing, only little zoo.
EDIT: I guess I did mention the 5/3 BBE Rancor idea earlier in my post, which was also a mistake considering Elf would only be 5/2 trample. That's what happens when you are just theory crafting though I guess. Either way, I like the idea of Rancor, but I'm not sure how I would actually incorporate it into Zoo. Cards like that are tough, because they can sometimes be great, and other times just be dead. It's hard enough to fit in all the creatures and removal in a Zoo deck without having to cut cards for enhancement cards like Rancor. And in Zoo, you never want to be drawing dead in the late game, so hitting something like Elspeth, Burn, or another creature is still preferable to cards like Rancor (and Ajani). My instinct is that R/G Aggro deck featuring Nobles, Kird Apes, Goblin Guides, Goyfs, Strangleroots, and maybe the Rancors could be pretty solid. Hasty Groundpounders.dec.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
And yet Goyf remains untouched, the $100 irreplaceable creature card in every deck that plays forests in Modern/Legacy.
-offtopic rant over
:bicycle::bicycle::teamwork::bicycle::bicycle:
Modern:
GRB Jund RGB
Legacy:
B The Gate B
U Mermaids & Ninja Faeries U
Vintage:
BBB Dark Depths featuring Bob and friends BBB
Elder Dragon Highlander:
URR Jhoira of the Eldrazi ApocalypseRUU
its not necessarily off topic. The hit from nacatl was way greater then I imagined it could be. It honestly took zoo from the best deck, to a lower area on tier 1. I still think its teir 1 since it HIGHLY tweekable to metas, but you need to be smart with creature choices.
Still if Nacatl was in, I assure you this would be the best deck in existance with rancor coming out...
Still the question remains with Rancor and ajani coming, big zoo or little zoo?
From testing I've found if your running little zoo, youd rather have rancor, and no ajani. Knight is better in the spot, and if a game goes long you'd rather have elspeth as a 1 of. Our 1 drops are pretty strong, and hooking them up with a rancor (Thalia being a 4/1 first strike is worth the extra) is amazing.
In big zoo (add boom bust if you like) Rancor is less good, as your creatures focus more on midgame, when it is less useful. But bloodbraiding into an ajani, or giving a knight flying double, can end the game right there.
I think big zoo is more powerful, and allows for a lot of tricks, but gives you a worse matchup against jund and control/tempo Where small zoo could fizzle... but is more consistent.
If anything though I'm glad people are talking more about zoo now at least.
4x Noble
3x Kird Ape
3x Loam Lion
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Thalia
3x Geist Of Saint Traft
2x Knight of the R
3x BloodBraid
1x Sagarda
2x Ajani 3.0
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Path
2x Psionic Blast
plus 21 Lands
I keep Finding the Card to Beat right now is Restoration Angel, she has so many uses right now it kinda silly. Blink a Finks to gain more life? Hell i got combo'd out with her/kiki jiki. Not to mention a 3/4 Flyer is also a pain to Deal without Pumps or a Psionic Blast. Any Ideas or Tips?
Path. Or go faster. Shes hard to deal with, thats for sure. That deck is a real deck and truth be told it scares the crap out of me with how interactive it is...
Blue zoo trades speed and brute burning and rasing for more tricks and a worse mana base. It felt too much like a gimmick to me, like bad bant with burn, but then again, I'm an all in aggro guy, and I have seen the deck run to good effect. Not to mention Giest is a real dude.
Honestly that angel is a pain... but that deck HATES topor orb.
On a side note, you should run at least 2 of those "prevent 2 damage to legendary creature" lands (name escapes me) since your running 7 of them. Toss in the hound, and you could be up to 9.
And theres no reason not to. Blue Zoo has done pretty well, infact if you look at the primer, under dailies, you'll find 2 lists that have one recently I beleive.
Honestly Goyf is rarely a turn 2 play in modern. You never want to drop him until he can survive a bolt. But he allows you to have a threat at 2 mana later in the game (meaning your curve can top out at 2 and still have a bomb, rather than 6 cmc for a titan, in standard)
So run your 1 drops out there. if they hit removal, or a wipe, drop him after. Plus, fetchland, they bolt a little dude, your little dude, makes goyf a 3/4
Knight could be good if your mana supports it, and you have enough fetches. But I wouldnt depend on it for land tricks in small zoo, only as a beater. She also makes lynx an 8/9 alot of the time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I keep hearing more and more people say small zoo as the way to go with rancor, btw
Lantern, not sure exactly what you were saying about Small Zoo vs. Big Zoo, but in general I would say that if you expect a large amount of other creature decks in your meta, than Big Zoo is likely better. If you're more worried about Combo and Control, Small Zoo is your man. Big Naya Zoo has similarities to Bant and Jund, depending on how you build it, but if built right it can do pretty well in the right meta. I tend to prefer Small Zoo (usually with a few midrange cards though), which is why I'm currently running straight Boros at the moment (Boros is built similar to fast Zoo, but at the moment I feel it has better consistency and can abuse Thalia very well). If I were to run Zoo right now, it would probably be for cards like Bloodbraid Elf, Knight of the Reliquary, and possibly Ajani 3.0.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Why Lion over Lynx? Wouldnt Lynx b a Strong card Choice, only down side i can is that it Dies to Pyroclasm.
Lynxes arent bad so long as your also running Knight, as well as a fetchable slayer stronghold
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Spellskite
4 Screeching Skaab
3 Armored Skaab
2 Borderland Ranger
4 Splinterfright
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
4 Ghoultree
3 Dream Twist
1 Artful Dodge
4 Tracker's Instincts
2 Gnaw to the Bone
LANDS (20)
4 Hinterland Harbor
10 Forest
6 Island
4 Mental Misstep
2 Memory's Journey
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Molten-Tail Masticore
Honestly I would just either burn the creatures one by one, and artifact kill the swords. If your small zoo you could always just race them. If you told me what were the specific cards you were trying to fight against, I could help you more
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Stomping Ground
4 Arid Mesa
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Silverblade Paladin
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
I have obviously gone with big zoo avoiding Lynx,GG,etc for a stronger mid-late game. I come from bant and I think you can tell by my build.
I do play the full 12 instants and its one reason why I wanted to switch from Bant. Helix is amazing.
bloodbraid elf into Geist can be backbreaking. I have really liked flipping a Paladin and attacking with a 4/3 doublestrike.
I think I am going to use something like this list in your next IQ Lantern.
Qasi Pridemage instead of Qasali Pridemage
Also Grove of Burnwillows -> Grove of the Burnwillows
If I have a supreme board position then I am holding onto my Bloodbraid. But to me most of the time she has just been bat**** awesome.
Slayer's Stronghold -> Slayers' Stronghold