I think that was the dilemma I was having with Swiftspear in the deck. While it did feel fantastic, it made me play more of as an aggressive deck due to the nature of it. I am currently trying out a version that cuts them for the 4th Forked Bolt and 4th Visions of Beyond and adding 2 Revelers to the main for more bodies and filtering/gas against various decks. With the current change the deck does feel more of like a controllish deck that can become very aggressive at the drop of a dime, but the variant with Switftspear just felt like an aggro deck all the time which this may not necessarily be the correct build for. Sam Black's newest videos show some of the weaknesses that the deck still has, so I agree with Kingfuzius and think that the "better" build is a hybrid of the 2, most notably adding Revelers to the established build (and maybe even switching to UR for optimal Blood Moon effectiveness).
Quick question to those on the white build: Around how much life do you lose a game? Like if you tend to fetch and shock more than a UR build, wouldn't that sort of negate the effectiveness of the life gain cards in Lightning Helix and sometimes Rest for the Weary? That's just one thing I found pretty awkward about the deck, but maybe you guys just have your lands ETB tapped more often so that it really doesn't matter. I was just wondering because another friend of mine pointed that out.
I like the idea of being able to side in Young Pyromancer after our opponents take out their bolts/helices for postboard games. The only issue I have with it would be the non-bo with Thing in the Ice. Are there any better options for this sort of effect or is this all we have?
I think that was the dilemma I was having with Swiftspear in the deck. While it did feel fantastic, it made me play more of as an aggressive deck due to the nature of it. I am currently trying out a version that cuts them for the 4th Forked Bolt and 4th Visions of Beyond and adding 2 Revelers to the main for more bodies and filtering/gas against various decks. With the current change the deck does feel more of like a controllish deck that can become very aggressive at the drop of a dime, but the variant with Switftspear just felt like an aggro deck all the time which this may not necessarily be the correct build for. Sam Black's newest videos show some of the weaknesses that the deck still has, so I agree with Kingfuzius and think that the "better" build is a hybrid of the 2, most notably adding Revelers to the established build (and maybe even switching to UR for optimal Blood Moon effectiveness).
Quick question to those on the white build: Around how much life do you lose a game? Like if you tend to fetch and shock more than a UR build, wouldn't that sort of negate the effectiveness of the life gain cards in Lightning Helix and sometimes Rest for the Weary? That's just one thing I found pretty awkward about the deck, but maybe you guys just have your lands ETB tapped more often so that it really doesn't matter. I was just wondering because another friend of mine pointed that out.
I like the idea of being able to side in Young Pyromancer after our opponents take out their bolts/helices for postboard games. The only issue I have with it would be the non-bo with Thing in the Ice. Are there any better options for this sort of effect or is this all we have?
We inflict ourselves with pretty high damage, because we got 3 colors and to get our engine online we need to play the lands untapped in order to quickly assemble it before they have the excess mana to counter everything. The (wild) W-splash negates the negative effect of our somewhat greedy mana base. So it's kinda a loop. While W provides burn/lifegain and utility we need W to negate the negative effects of its splash. Of course this is a bit exxagerated, but it makes me smile a bit so I thought I should share it
But we could maybe improve our mana base with the new fastlands. UWR combinations are made for using Spirebluff Canal since we rarely need more lands than 4. I just don't know yet in which quantities we would like the fastland.
Regarding Young Pyromancer. I am not sold on that one yet, but my current list would out the Thing in The Ice in the sideboard anyways. I wonder of a token aspect could help us. I thought a while ago that Timely Reinforcements could help us against Burn and maybe even control decks that start flashbacking Lightning Bolts with Snapcaster Mage. The snapcasters dieto the tokens and we can swing in. Timely Reinforcements could replace Rest for the weary.
I'll be able to test some games on magic online this week end. I want to try the possibility of infinite combo with Noxious revival and SB options for Jund/GBx. Some number of Snapcaster+Spell Pierces+removal (PTE?) can transform us into some sort of control/tempo deck postboard when the main "combo" plan doesn't work?
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The fastlands would make the UR version far better. I just don't feel the white splash is better than having Blood Moon in the SB.
@KingBrago,
I feel that this deck is better suited to be aggro/combo, rather than combo/control. Our spells aren't high impact enough to make the inclusion of Snapcaster Mage truly worth it.
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[Modern] RBGU Dredge RBGU RG Ponza RG UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR] G Titania, Protector of Argoth G UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
Been reading this topic a week or so now and recently played the deck in the Dutch WMCQ last sunday to a 5-2-1(ID) finish for 19th out of 140 players. I was pretty pleased with this, seeing it was the first tournament I ever played it in and only goldfished maybe 10 games with it before.
This is the list I played, which is based on Tamada's list but with some notable changes:
While goldfishing it really felt way too high risk to me to run only 1 Steam Vents and when I later swapped all Remands for Bedlam Revelers the extra red source also made sense. Even though I think Remand is pretty good in this deck, I expected that Reveler would be much better in the meta (quite some BGx) and it was the cleanest swap I could make. On hindsight and re-evaluation, though, I think it should have cut Faithless Looting for it instead because Looting is pretty horrible against them and even overlaps in function with reveler. I also only wanted 3 reveler because multiples don't do anything and it's not as important to have one early as it is for ascension or thing, so a 3-off was perfect.
Due to playing reveler, I decided on swapping Visions of Beyond for Sleight of Hand as I didn't want to become that dependent on the graveyard. Sure, the usually played Grafdigger's Cage basically does nothing against this deck, but there are also Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus and more such cards to worry about. I've played Visions before in Ascendancy Combo and was always a bit underwhelmed by it. Even without hate, 20 cards is quite a lot and when trying to set up, Sleight is way better selection than just a blind draw. I do agree that Visions being an instant is much better with Thing and Ascension, but unlike the Ascendancy list I played (the Glittering Wish version) it's just one out of many instants in the deck so I wasn't really worried.
The sideboard I left as is because it lined up well with what I wanted to do. I often boarded out the Revelers when they wouldn't be fast enough for the appropriate hate. I also boarded out Looting quite often because it's card disadvantage and I think the worst spell in the deck in most case. When I board in Blood Moon I usually do leave it in because it's at least castable.
In the 6 rounds I actually played, this is more or less what happened:
Round 1 against Gw Tron (0-2)
G1 I mull to 5 and keep a hand that finally has some land but then draw only land while he has t3 karn on the play. In the mean time I only played tarns and fetched steam vents with them so I scooped hoping he'd put me on some kind of control deck rather than combo.
G2 I have a more functional hand on 6 while he goes t1 and 2 tron piece + map. T3 I probe him and see no 7 drop he could cast (only World Breaker) and cast Blood Moon anyway, thinking as I do it that maybe I should wait a turn and wait for him to fetch his missing tron so he can't get forest. Sadly, he indeed gets forest instead and I don't really lock him out. I proceed to draw abysmally and he eventually hits 7 lands to play the world breaker to remove one of 2 Ascensions that actually already had a counter. He then plays another and kills me through my reveler that also drew nothing.
Well, that was a promising start of the day..
Round 2 against Elves (2-1)
G1 I try to control his board and eventually find Thing to bounce everything, but can't bounce Spellskite so he chumps. Next turn he vomits out his hand again so I'm still probably dead next turn. Fortunately, I also have an ascension online now and am able to string together a bunch of spells to both find and flip a new thing to attack for the win and burn him out. At this point I was starting to feel pretty good about the deck ;).
G2 I'm a bit slow and he chords for an Eidolon of Rhetoric which slows me to a crawl and stops me from actually being able to race him.
G3 I bring in Wear//Tear to answer both his eidolon and spellskite and end up simply killing everything until I flip a Thing that kills him in 2 turns.
Round 2 against Jund (2-0)
G1 I mull to 5, keeping a hand of mountain, sacred foundry, 2 sleight and ascension. He's on the play and takes my ascension with an inquisition or the like, but I topdeck another one and play my foundry tapped, hoping he wouldn't inquisition again because I basically can't do anything anyway. He indeed doesn't and I get to play my ascension. I then draw a fetch to get blue and start cantripping and quickly activate ascension while he doesn't have an answer to it and instead has a Courser of Kruphix with very little else. His life total slowly creeps up and he finds things like liliana and kalitas, but I am able to bolt or helix them down, both controlling his board and keeping me alive. I ended this game at 2 life so the copied helix was pretty useful here ;). In the end I'm left facing a lethal board with him at 24 life and me only having left 2 helix and a bolt in the deck. Fortunately I have 2 active ascensions and am able to draw enough of my deck to draw them and cast them for lethal. Now I feel pretty awesome about the deck ;).
G2 was quite exciting as well, though much shorter. He has a draw with multiple Raging Ravines but I manage to get an active ascension again which is able to double path ravine and an ooze and another ravine, leaving him with nothing. I find a reveler that can kill him in short order shortly after, despite being at 3. If he had forced me to path just a single creature by attacking for lethal with just 1 creature, I wouldn't have had removal for his last one and probably would have died, so that was fortunate.
I only sided in 3 path to exile and engineered explosives in this match because Jund is punished much less by it and I expected him to fetch around it + path defeats the purpose of moon anyway and I valued that more highly than hoping to screw him. I didn't draw the explosives in this game, but in later games I realized that explosives is actually pretty bad in this matchup because the usual number is 2, which also maximally punishes myself. It seems that if you want to set explosives on 2 in the matchup, it better be game-winningly awesome or you shouldn't board it in.
R4 against grixis goryo's vengenace (2-1)
G1 at first it almost seems like the mirror match until he plays t3 bloodstained mire. He proceeds with emrakuling me so it's pretty obvious what he's on.
G2 I (mistakenly) side out 2 Things and a reveler for counters and then proceed to quickly beat him t4 with a flipped thing. Justice.
G3 I side in all things again and remove an ascension and a reveler instead. Maybe reveler should have just been completely cut here, but killing him quickly was the plan which I thought reveler would help with more than 4th ascension. In this game I end up in the situation with a thing on 1 and a thing on 3 counters with a castable instant in hand vs a hand of breach, dispel and unknowns after discarding 2 Griselbrands to a looting. As I contemplate how to actually clock him, I draw dispel and with him on just 5 land I go for lethal with 2 things and dispel backup.
R5 against Abzan (2-1)
G1 he has goyf and anafenza while I have thing and ascension on the play. T4 I play the ascension and cantrip a bit to flip thing and bounce his board but forget to attack because I somehow forgot that I played it already last turn. Fortunately I find another ascension, get it online and burn him out easily anyway, trolling my opponent a bit with 'still had all these' ;).
G2 I don't really remember and have no notes, but I lost it.
G3 he triple thoughtseize/inquisitions me but has no clock so I double bolt him down in the end. It's so nice how this deck can actually bounce back from all that discard thanks to reveler and all the cantrips.
He played the grim flayer noble hierarch version so I only boarded the paths and didn't bring in blood moon. I also expected him to fetch basics anyway.
R6 against Infect (1-2)
G1 I keep a 1lander and can't play a 2 drop on t2, which loses me the game. I'm always 1 step behind and he even has spellskite to stop my bolts.
G2 I kill his infecters at safe times and finish him easily.
G3 he mulls to 6 and plays t1 noble. I probe and see glistener elf, apostle blessing, pendelhaven and a fetch, so I feel pretty good about this game. He plays land elf and I play thing. He EoT Twisted Images my thing and plays pendelhaven attack for 3 poison. I probe him again after playing a 2 drop and see his draws were groundswell and become immense so I die. Great.
R7 against Bant Eldrazi (2-0)
G1 his hand is pretty slow and only has eldrazi skyspawner t3 and thought-knot seer t4. He can't really take something exciting and I find a thing, which flips and kills him together with some bolts.
G2 he has a fairly quick TKS despite bolting his first 2 nobles. I topdeck blood moon and probe him to see he has another TKS and a skyspawner so I decide that it's better to screw both of us (all non-basics here) than face another TKS. He beats me to 6 before I find a reveler, which draws me 2 bolts and a land. He attacks anyway as he can't do anything and I bolt him to eat his TKS. He drew plains, though, and paths my reveler before I can kill him. Fortunately I hit manamorphose to enable the helixes in my hand and finish him off. This is where blood moon felt pretty useful.
The only cards I never boarded in were Rest for the Weary, but I don't really know how badly I need them against burn. I think they are probably the best anti-burn spell I can use because they are instant and cheap. Timely seems worse because it's both 3 mana and sorcery and not as exciting to copy because it's quite likely that the 2nd one won't even gain life and very likely that I won't get tokens. The rest I was pretty happy with. Due to the revelers main I didn't feel like I need any token makers against BGx and I think the synergy between the deck and revelers is higher than with token makers anyway.
Going forward (and after playing in another small tournament) I'm looking to cut looting for remand. I see some people advocating Izzet Charm but I think that's just bad. It's an expensive looting you can't flash back, an expensive bolt that can't go to the face and a very mediocre negate. Remand buys time against anything, cantrips, comboes with ascension to activate it and can even go infinite with 2 active ascensions and a manamorphose to draw your deck and presumably win from there. It's a pity that it isn't actual infinite otherwise I might be tempted to have a grapeshot in the side to beat infinite life, but I don't think either going for Noxious revival or just the 'value' (?) grapeshot is worth it. I also didn't feel like I needed the drawing power of Visions in the late game because of the revelers so other than the looting/remand swap, I'm pretty comfortable with this list.
Lastly an aside on the white splash in this deck. I think that it's worth it. Not only does helix give you a great tool to gain life against aggro, it's also bolt 5-8, making it much easier to actually bolt someone out. Path from the side is also great, just don't board them in together with blood moon. Only side blood moon when it cripples their strategy. This is not blue moon. With manamorphose, the mana felt fine to me and blood moon is also doable. When I first put the deck together I couldn't fathom the idea of playing blood moon without basic plains but I quickly found out that plains is awful in this deck and that manamorphose is enough to play your white spells under blood moon. This is another reason not to side in path and blood moon together, btw. What does the UR-only version 'gain' that would make it better?
Hey any tips on playing the mirror? Went against it several times on mtgo. It feels like the first one to activate ascension wins. I generally boarded out TITI for counterspells and didnt bring in mentors (against 8 bolts it feels not that good)
Im testing with rodrigo togores exact maindeck (on mtgtop8, its basically replacing the 3rd looting with a bedlam) and really like it. Still unsure about the side:
2 wear tear
1 bedlam reveler
2 mentor
2 spell pierce
1 swan song
1 dispel
2 rest for the weary (change to blessed aliance?)
2 path to exile
2 anger of the gods.
I think mentor is better than pyro since the tokens alone can be very dangerous (2mentor tokens can close a game very quickly in this deck)
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Hey any tips on playing the mirror? Went against it several times on mtgo. It feels like the first one to activate ascension wins. I generally boarded out TITI for counterspells and didnt bring in mentors (against 8 bolts it feels not that good)
Im testing with rodrigo togores exact maindeck (on mtgtop8, its basically replacing the 3rd looting with a bedlam) and really like it. Still unsure about the side:
2 wear tear
1 bedlam reveler
2 mentor
2 spell pierce
1 swan song
1 dispel
2 rest for the weary (change to blessed aliance?)
2 path to exile
2 anger of the gods.
I think mentor is better than pyro since the tokens alone can be very dangerous (2mentor tokens can close a game very quickly in this deck)
Yes, sorry that wasnt very clear. What I meant was that the strengh of monastery mentor is that even if your opponent has immediate removal, you can generate 2-3 tokens. Unlike young pyromancer's tokens, 2 or 3 prowess monks can easily win the game the turn you untap.
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Yes, sorry that wasnt very clear. What I meant was that the strengh of monastery mentor is that even if your opponent has immediate removal, you can generate 2-3 tokens. Unlike young pyromancer's tokens, 2 or 3 prowess monks can easily win the game the turn you untap.
But its 3 cmc and it has the colour we are weak splashing. I don't know if the card can make a splash - see what I did there?
Yes that's a fair point. But I think you dont want to see it as a 3 drop but a late game threat for grindy matchups like jund. On attrition wars, a late game mentor can turn the game around like no other card, especially if you still have cantrips. And that, even if the opponent removes him immediately.
I'm boarding him against GBx and control decks mostly.
Bedlam reveler is also extremely good against jund and control, so its possible that going for 3-4 revelers post board and no mentors is a better plan to improve the Jund matchup
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went 3-1 couple of days ago in an fnm , was pretty overwhelmed when i switched my 2 bedlem and 2 noxious with sleight of hand, the card is nuts in the deck.
only lost to Valakut, accidentally discarded remand, and he won turn 4 easily, game 2 i sideboarded 2 path but again , with no path and remand in the hand, he pulled me down to 2 life and from there he won with one mountain.
what is a good sideboard against valakut / trough the breach titan.
went 3-1 couple of days ago in an fnm , was pretty overwhelmed when i switched my 2 bedlem and 2 noxious with sleight of hand, the card is nuts in the deck.
only lost to Valakut, accidentally discarded remand, and he won turn 4 easily, game 2 i sideboarded 2 path but again , with no path and remand in the hand, he pulled me down to 2 life and from there he won with one mountain.
what is a good sideboard against valakut / trough the breach titan.
Path is okay to get the Titans. Remand can hinder a Through the Breach and Blood Moons makes their Valakuts to normal mountains.
BM is the decks biggest hoser against Valakut Decks. Generally I think you should try to race them. Get your Ascensions online, flip your things and/or go wide with Young Pyromancer.
So I play Strom and saw this deck doing well so I picked up the missing parts. My question is why blood moon? Why not something like Moltain rain. For tron and valkut. Allows us to slow them down. It's a spell for TiTi and is great when copied and even does some damage when we "go off"
So I play Strom and saw this deck doing well so I picked up the missing parts. My question is why blood moon? Why not something like Moltain rain. For tron and valkut. Allows us to slow them down. It's a spell for TiTi and is great when copied and even does some damage when we "go off"
I made the experience that you can't keep Valakuts in check with land destruction. But it is a possible substitute that does not interfere with Path to Exile so I might give it a try.
I usually trim on Ascension and thing -1 each most of the times and then I trim 1 thought scour. Then if they are on the 2 drop heavy BGx list I will side in EE if I feel like I need it.
I am thinking about dropping the lootin alltogether. It's just straight card advantage and while we like to fill our gy to get the Ascensions online I thin Thought Scour is good enough.
Quick question to those on the white build: Around how much life do you lose a game? Like if you tend to fetch and shock more than a UR build, wouldn't that sort of negate the effectiveness of the life gain cards in Lightning Helix and sometimes Rest for the Weary? That's just one thing I found pretty awkward about the deck, but maybe you guys just have your lands ETB tapped more often so that it really doesn't matter. I was just wondering because another friend of mine pointed that out.
I like the idea of being able to side in Young Pyromancer after our opponents take out their bolts/helices for postboard games. The only issue I have with it would be the non-bo with Thing in the Ice. Are there any better options for this sort of effect or is this all we have?
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
We inflict ourselves with pretty high damage, because we got 3 colors and to get our engine online we need to play the lands untapped in order to quickly assemble it before they have the excess mana to counter everything. The (wild) W-splash negates the negative effect of our somewhat greedy mana base. So it's kinda a loop. While W provides burn/lifegain and utility we need W to negate the negative effects of its splash. Of course this is a bit exxagerated, but it makes me smile a bit so I thought I should share it
But we could maybe improve our mana base with the new fastlands. UWR combinations are made for using Spirebluff Canal since we rarely need more lands than 4. I just don't know yet in which quantities we would like the fastland.
Regarding Young Pyromancer. I am not sold on that one yet, but my current list would out the Thing in The Ice in the sideboard anyways. I wonder of a token aspect could help us. I thought a while ago that Timely Reinforcements could help us against Burn and maybe even control decks that start flashbacking Lightning Bolts with Snapcaster Mage. The snapcasters dieto the tokens and we can swing in. Timely Reinforcements could replace Rest for the weary.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I'll be able to test some games on magic online this week end. I want to try the possibility of infinite combo with Noxious revival and SB options for Jund/GBx. Some number of Snapcaster+Spell Pierces+removal (PTE?) can transform us into some sort of control/tempo deck postboard when the main "combo" plan doesn't work?
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
@KingBrago,
I feel that this deck is better suited to be aggro/combo, rather than combo/control. Our spells aren't high impact enough to make the inclusion of Snapcaster Mage truly worth it.
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
This is the list I played, which is based on Tamada's list but with some notable changes:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures (7)
4 Thing in the Ice
3 Bedlam Reveler
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
3 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Blood Moon
3 Path to Exile
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Rest for the Weary
2 Dispel
1 Swan Song
1 Wear // Tear
2 Anger of the Gods
While goldfishing it really felt way too high risk to me to run only 1 Steam Vents and when I later swapped all Remands for Bedlam Revelers the extra red source also made sense. Even though I think Remand is pretty good in this deck, I expected that Reveler would be much better in the meta (quite some BGx) and it was the cleanest swap I could make. On hindsight and re-evaluation, though, I think it should have cut Faithless Looting for it instead because Looting is pretty horrible against them and even overlaps in function with reveler. I also only wanted 3 reveler because multiples don't do anything and it's not as important to have one early as it is for ascension or thing, so a 3-off was perfect.
Due to playing reveler, I decided on swapping Visions of Beyond for Sleight of Hand as I didn't want to become that dependent on the graveyard. Sure, the usually played Grafdigger's Cage basically does nothing against this deck, but there are also Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus and more such cards to worry about. I've played Visions before in Ascendancy Combo and was always a bit underwhelmed by it. Even without hate, 20 cards is quite a lot and when trying to set up, Sleight is way better selection than just a blind draw. I do agree that Visions being an instant is much better with Thing and Ascension, but unlike the Ascendancy list I played (the Glittering Wish version) it's just one out of many instants in the deck so I wasn't really worried.
The sideboard I left as is because it lined up well with what I wanted to do. I often boarded out the Revelers when they wouldn't be fast enough for the appropriate hate. I also boarded out Looting quite often because it's card disadvantage and I think the worst spell in the deck in most case. When I board in Blood Moon I usually do leave it in because it's at least castable.
In the 6 rounds I actually played, this is more or less what happened:
Round 1 against Gw Tron (0-2)
G1 I mull to 5 and keep a hand that finally has some land but then draw only land while he has t3 karn on the play. In the mean time I only played tarns and fetched steam vents with them so I scooped hoping he'd put me on some kind of control deck rather than combo.
G2 I have a more functional hand on 6 while he goes t1 and 2 tron piece + map. T3 I probe him and see no 7 drop he could cast (only World Breaker) and cast Blood Moon anyway, thinking as I do it that maybe I should wait a turn and wait for him to fetch his missing tron so he can't get forest. Sadly, he indeed gets forest instead and I don't really lock him out. I proceed to draw abysmally and he eventually hits 7 lands to play the world breaker to remove one of 2 Ascensions that actually already had a counter. He then plays another and kills me through my reveler that also drew nothing.
Well, that was a promising start of the day..
Round 2 against Elves (2-1)
G1 I try to control his board and eventually find Thing to bounce everything, but can't bounce Spellskite so he chumps. Next turn he vomits out his hand again so I'm still probably dead next turn. Fortunately, I also have an ascension online now and am able to string together a bunch of spells to both find and flip a new thing to attack for the win and burn him out. At this point I was starting to feel pretty good about the deck ;).
G2 I'm a bit slow and he chords for an Eidolon of Rhetoric which slows me to a crawl and stops me from actually being able to race him.
G3 I bring in Wear//Tear to answer both his eidolon and spellskite and end up simply killing everything until I flip a Thing that kills him in 2 turns.
Round 2 against Jund (2-0)
G1 I mull to 5, keeping a hand of mountain, sacred foundry, 2 sleight and ascension. He's on the play and takes my ascension with an inquisition or the like, but I topdeck another one and play my foundry tapped, hoping he wouldn't inquisition again because I basically can't do anything anyway. He indeed doesn't and I get to play my ascension. I then draw a fetch to get blue and start cantripping and quickly activate ascension while he doesn't have an answer to it and instead has a Courser of Kruphix with very little else. His life total slowly creeps up and he finds things like liliana and kalitas, but I am able to bolt or helix them down, both controlling his board and keeping me alive. I ended this game at 2 life so the copied helix was pretty useful here ;). In the end I'm left facing a lethal board with him at 24 life and me only having left 2 helix and a bolt in the deck. Fortunately I have 2 active ascensions and am able to draw enough of my deck to draw them and cast them for lethal. Now I feel pretty awesome about the deck ;).
G2 was quite exciting as well, though much shorter. He has a draw with multiple Raging Ravines but I manage to get an active ascension again which is able to double path ravine and an ooze and another ravine, leaving him with nothing. I find a reveler that can kill him in short order shortly after, despite being at 3. If he had forced me to path just a single creature by attacking for lethal with just 1 creature, I wouldn't have had removal for his last one and probably would have died, so that was fortunate.
I only sided in 3 path to exile and engineered explosives in this match because Jund is punished much less by it and I expected him to fetch around it + path defeats the purpose of moon anyway and I valued that more highly than hoping to screw him. I didn't draw the explosives in this game, but in later games I realized that explosives is actually pretty bad in this matchup because the usual number is 2, which also maximally punishes myself. It seems that if you want to set explosives on 2 in the matchup, it better be game-winningly awesome or you shouldn't board it in.
R4 against grixis goryo's vengenace (2-1)
G1 at first it almost seems like the mirror match until he plays t3 bloodstained mire. He proceeds with emrakuling me so it's pretty obvious what he's on.
G2 I (mistakenly) side out 2 Things and a reveler for counters and then proceed to quickly beat him t4 with a flipped thing. Justice.
G3 I side in all things again and remove an ascension and a reveler instead. Maybe reveler should have just been completely cut here, but killing him quickly was the plan which I thought reveler would help with more than 4th ascension. In this game I end up in the situation with a thing on 1 and a thing on 3 counters with a castable instant in hand vs a hand of breach, dispel and unknowns after discarding 2 Griselbrands to a looting. As I contemplate how to actually clock him, I draw dispel and with him on just 5 land I go for lethal with 2 things and dispel backup.
R5 against Abzan (2-1)
G1 he has goyf and anafenza while I have thing and ascension on the play. T4 I play the ascension and cantrip a bit to flip thing and bounce his board but forget to attack because I somehow forgot that I played it already last turn. Fortunately I find another ascension, get it online and burn him out easily anyway, trolling my opponent a bit with 'still had all these' ;).
G2 I don't really remember and have no notes, but I lost it.
G3 he triple thoughtseize/inquisitions me but has no clock so I double bolt him down in the end. It's so nice how this deck can actually bounce back from all that discard thanks to reveler and all the cantrips.
He played the grim flayer noble hierarch version so I only boarded the paths and didn't bring in blood moon. I also expected him to fetch basics anyway.
R6 against Infect (1-2)
G1 I keep a 1lander and can't play a 2 drop on t2, which loses me the game. I'm always 1 step behind and he even has spellskite to stop my bolts.
G2 I kill his infecters at safe times and finish him easily.
G3 he mulls to 6 and plays t1 noble. I probe and see glistener elf, apostle blessing, pendelhaven and a fetch, so I feel pretty good about this game. He plays land elf and I play thing. He EoT Twisted Images my thing and plays pendelhaven attack for 3 poison. I probe him again after playing a 2 drop and see his draws were groundswell and become immense so I die. Great.
R7 against Bant Eldrazi (2-0)
G1 his hand is pretty slow and only has eldrazi skyspawner t3 and thought-knot seer t4. He can't really take something exciting and I find a thing, which flips and kills him together with some bolts.
G2 he has a fairly quick TKS despite bolting his first 2 nobles. I topdeck blood moon and probe him to see he has another TKS and a skyspawner so I decide that it's better to screw both of us (all non-basics here) than face another TKS. He beats me to 6 before I find a reveler, which draws me 2 bolts and a land. He attacks anyway as he can't do anything and I bolt him to eat his TKS. He drew plains, though, and paths my reveler before I can kill him. Fortunately I hit manamorphose to enable the helixes in my hand and finish him off. This is where blood moon felt pretty useful.
The only cards I never boarded in were Rest for the Weary, but I don't really know how badly I need them against burn. I think they are probably the best anti-burn spell I can use because they are instant and cheap. Timely seems worse because it's both 3 mana and sorcery and not as exciting to copy because it's quite likely that the 2nd one won't even gain life and very likely that I won't get tokens. The rest I was pretty happy with. Due to the revelers main I didn't feel like I need any token makers against BGx and I think the synergy between the deck and revelers is higher than with token makers anyway.
Going forward (and after playing in another small tournament) I'm looking to cut looting for remand. I see some people advocating Izzet Charm but I think that's just bad. It's an expensive looting you can't flash back, an expensive bolt that can't go to the face and a very mediocre negate. Remand buys time against anything, cantrips, comboes with ascension to activate it and can even go infinite with 2 active ascensions and a manamorphose to draw your deck and presumably win from there. It's a pity that it isn't actual infinite otherwise I might be tempted to have a grapeshot in the side to beat infinite life, but I don't think either going for Noxious revival or just the 'value' (?) grapeshot is worth it. I also didn't feel like I needed the drawing power of Visions in the late game because of the revelers so other than the looting/remand swap, I'm pretty comfortable with this list.
Lastly an aside on the white splash in this deck. I think that it's worth it. Not only does helix give you a great tool to gain life against aggro, it's also bolt 5-8, making it much easier to actually bolt someone out. Path from the side is also great, just don't board them in together with blood moon. Only side blood moon when it cripples their strategy. This is not blue moon. With manamorphose, the mana felt fine to me and blood moon is also doable. When I first put the deck together I couldn't fathom the idea of playing blood moon without basic plains but I quickly found out that plains is awful in this deck and that manamorphose is enough to play your white spells under blood moon. This is another reason not to side in path and blood moon together, btw. What does the UR-only version 'gain' that would make it better?
Im testing with rodrigo togores exact maindeck (on mtgtop8, its basically replacing the 3rd looting with a bedlam) and really like it. Still unsure about the side:
2 wear tear
1 bedlam reveler
2 mentor
2 spell pierce
1 swan song
1 dispel
2 rest for the weary (change to blessed aliance?)
2 path to exile
2 anger of the gods.
I think mentor is better than pyro since the tokens alone can be very dangerous (2mentor tokens can close a game very quickly in this deck)
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
Which mentor are you talking about?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
But its 3 cmc and it has the colour we are weak splashing. I don't know if the card can make a splash - see what I did there?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I'm boarding him against GBx and control decks mostly.
Bedlam reveler is also extremely good against jund and control, so its possible that going for 3-4 revelers post board and no mentors is a better plan to improve the Jund matchup
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
only lost to Valakut, accidentally discarded remand, and he won turn 4 easily, game 2 i sideboarded 2 path but again , with no path and remand in the hand, he pulled me down to 2 life and from there he won with one mountain.
what is a good sideboard against valakut / trough the breach titan.
Path is okay to get the Titans. Remand can hinder a Through the Breach and Blood Moons makes their Valakuts to normal mountains.
BM is the decks biggest hoser against Valakut Decks. Generally I think you should try to race them. Get your Ascensions online, flip your things and/or go wide with Young Pyromancer.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I made the experience that you can't keep Valakuts in check with land destruction. But it is a possible substitute that does not interfere with Path to Exile so I might give it a try.
Whats your list?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures (3)
4 Thing in the Ice
Spells (38)
3 Remand
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
3 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Sideboard (15)
1 wear//tear
1 swan song
2 Anger of the gods
3 monestary mentor
1 Engineered explosives
2 dispel
2 path to exile
1 blessed alliance
2 molten rain
In class atm sorry can't put it into a deck list.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR