That's true. I have actually cast a Lightning Bolt followed by Remand to turn on Ascension, and Remanding the bolt, to draw a card and get 2 bolts (after casting it again and copying it). It is not the most efficient, but sometimes that extra 3 damage is all that is needed.
I have been testing Izzet Charm in place of Remand for now just to see what it does and I really like the card so far. I think you're right that a split is probably best and so far I think Izzet Charm fits somewhere in the deck.
I am currentl working on a prier for the deck and I am glad for any aditional testing data you could provide So if you get results it would be nice if you come back to this deck-thread or the new primer and tell us how it worked out
Also another question onto the SB: which card would you take to replace Blood Moon? As some in this thread pointed out it seems resonable to get rid of them, because of your greedy mana base and get some other hate.
Thing is blood moon is too good against tri color control decks. Maybe a Thrun like creature for Jeskai? Only card i can think of is Geist but he's not good enuf imo.
Now that you mentioned it, it does sound kind of bad especially in the Abzan matchup. Bloodmoon does help a lot against Tron and RG Valakut though the latter really popular right now. Ill try the Pyromancers from the SB. Thanks!
I am not totally sure what you mean with this quote, but I am assuming you are referring to the "bounce" effect of Thing in the Ice bouncing your own creatures. If so, I just want to point out that Thing in the Ice does not bounce the Reveler as it is a Horror.
I have played this deck the last 3 times at my LGS and I really like the deck. The white splash (Lightning Helix specifically) has won me its fair share of games, so I will probably plan on continuing with White. I do have Blood Moons in the side but as others have pointed out, the white splash makes it awkward, so they will probably get cut.
My worst matchup so far has been against control decks. I played against a Grixis control deck and they just always seemed to have an answer to everything I cast. I just couldn't keep up. I am trying to figure out how to make that matchup better (if possible). Maybe it was just bad draws on my part.
I think I will be adding in 2 Revelers and cutting 2 Visions of Beyond as Kingfuzius suggested.
Remand can sometimes be awkward. I have had a couple scenarios where I wanted to transform Thing in the Ice, but the only instant I had was Remand and I couldn't cast it. Kitt suggested Izzet Charm and I think that is a pretty good card in place of Remand.
Boros Charm has been mentioned too, but I am not sure where I would fit that in.
I had the feeling too, that sometimes fighting control felt impossible. But this is reall draw dependend. I was thinking about a split of Remand / Izzet Charm. One thing you should not forget that even a Remand in hand can draw you cards if you flashback a Faithless Looting.
Greetings
King
I've never felt that Thing + Swiftspear is a non-bo. You could just always recast the swiftspears and attack anyway even if they;re smaller. Also, if you time things properly and have enough mana, you can leave Thing at 1 counter for a turn, then transform it on the following turn, recast swiftspears, then continue the cantrip chain.
As for Reveller, its a Horror. Not bounced by Thing =).
Thing is blood moon is too good against tri color control decks. Maybe a Thrun like creature for Jeskai? Only card i can think of is Geist but he's not good enuf imo.
While that is true it can not be overstated how bad path and blood moon are together. And that makes for some really awkward sideboarding against abzan since you want both cards here. Both in terms of your manabase and because of the fact that did you give them the basics they need to cast their spells. Maybe revelver can be the midrange trumph that the deck need but im doubtful. Atm I like bringing in young pyromancer from the sideboard. In bolt match ups most people bring out some number of them and against a path deck it is a must kill. Also being less graveyard depended is really nice aswell compared to something like revelver
That's why I went for purely U/R. I think its a metagame call. Play Jeskai colours if your meta is full of burn and aggro; play U/R if its more midrange. In my case, I'm going U/R coz of Abzan and Scapeshift at my LGS.
In other news, went 1-2 on last Monday's Modern event at my LGS. Got paired against Naya Burn (2-0), BtL Scapeshift (0-2), RW Prison(0-2). Went with 2 mainboard Angers this week coz I expected some Merfolk and Abzan Combo. I'm playing a pure UR version built by Sam Black with Swiftspears main and Things in the side.
Against Naya Burn, G1, Swiftspear combined with instant cantrips ate 2 of his creatures. Then I let him rebuild into a Anger. G2, I go up to the full 4 Angers. His aggro start get wiped by a Turn 3 Anger. He rebuilds, but Thing bounces his entire board again next turn.
Against Scapeshift, G1 and G2, his Remands and Tribe Elders serve as roadblocks to my Aggro. He also has the Cryptic to bounce my Ascension and just combos out on turn 7.
Against RW Prison, G1, he just grinds me down, removing all my threats and ascensions and wait till I draw my library out. G2, T1 Chalice X=1; T2, RiP; T4 Chalice X=2. GG.
I do honestly think my meta too hostile against this deck and will probably stop playing it for a while, despite how much I like it. =(
I played this with a 2-1 record recently at FNM at my LGS.
Instead of Remand, I run 2x Bedlam Reveler and 1x Isochron Scepter.
I played Sleight of Hand instead of Visions of Beyond. (I own both but favor Sleight of Hand.)
I also play one main deck Plains to play around Blood Moon.
Game 1 vs Jund0-2
His permanent removal and hand removal keeps my threats off the field. Tough matchup. At one point he uses up a ton of removal and I stick a Bedlam Reveler without answer, but he has two humongous Goyfs and I don't draw Path.
Game 2 vs RG Tron2-1
First match, I am on the play and win with Ascension when he can't find his Tron lands soon enough.
Match 2, he's on the play. He finds his tron lands by turn 3 and plays Karn. I've got a turn 3 Blood Moon, but it doesn't matter with his Karn on the board.
Game 3, I board in some counters and board out Reveler. Reveler is nice if there's the possibility of a grindy game, but playing against tron is a race.
I counter his turn 2 Sylvan Scrying with Swan Song. He was counting on that for assembling tron and that slows him enough to get the win by turn 4 with two swings from Titi, a bolt, and helix to the face.
Game 2 vs Abzan Coco2-0
Match 1, I drew a hand with Titi and heavy on the bolts/helixes. I play the control deck, removing his creatures to prevent the combo early game and winning when I drop a second thing and flip it on the later turns.
Match 2, I board in Anger of the Gods. I play two Angers this match which keep his field completely suppressed and win with Ascension and Scepter.
Game 1 Jeskai Nahiri 2-1
Match 1 he couldn't beat me, Went control and with a titi on the board it was game over.
Match 2: He leylined on his turn. Beantown time, but could kill my titi with double bolt before it could flip with her Nahiri on the field, ultimated for Emrakul.
Match 3: He mulligans to five searching for leyline and lands, after that it was an easy race for me.
Game 2 Living Dead 1-2
Match 1: I screwed at tapping with a reamed on hand, He cascades and it was too much for me on turn 4, but I think having the ability to flip a titi can reverse the match.
Added a swan song from the sb.
Match 2: I countered his first living end, started pressuring him and could beat him.
Match 2: Countered the first living end, and he even played it from his hand. I tapped out with a titi and ascension, on his turn he cascades, game over.
Lost to my mistakes.
Game 3 Jund 1-2
Jund or any BG combination is a tough match up for us.
Match 1: was beaten by a giant 5,6 Tarmo and just couldn't do much other than bolting him.
Match 2:Sided the titi out and added 2 bedlams and blood moon. Could play mine and with a bedlam on turn 5 won.
Match 3: Grinder me with a Tarmo and Liliana on the field after 2 thoughts. On a sidenote thought scoured one of my paths.
Game 3 Living end 2-0
Another living end, I learned from my mistakes.
Match 1: Countered his first living end, the second I couldn't but on my turn played and flipped a titi.
Match 2: He could exile my ascensions, but in a grinding match could overcome it through a titi and a bolt.
Game 4 Nahiri with land destruction
Match 1: Got mana screwed and couldn't dig to find a third land, couldn't do much.
Match 2: Went control, he had to play a nahiri to destroy my tapped titi, but bolted it next turn. After that he couldn't do much.
Match 3: Very grindy match, destroyed two Nahiris. Could activate an ascension and a flipped thing on the ice, with two lands. He wraths my thing, played a second ascension, got my red land destroyed and digged found a red land and after a string of manamorphoses could win.
Overall liked the deck, I like visions of beyond but were on my first cards sided out.
Burn hate and graveyard hate our biggest enemies after that I think abrupt decay.
I just arrived home from a 396-man, 9-round WMCQ. Got a 7-2 record. Sadly, it's only for 23th place and I could have kept a better hand against the decks that I lost to. I used Tamada's list from World's but I replaced Rest for the Weary with Blessed Alliance instead.
Notable moments that I experienced among my matches:
1. I was able to use manamorphose to pay for a copied Summoner's pact, which bought me one turn to find the relevant burn spell.
2. I could have won against elves but spot removal can only do so much. It was the first time that I flipped Titi but still lose because... SPELLSKITE IS A FREAKING HORROR !#^@#$$!#!@#.
3. The burn matchup is difficult game 1 unless you're able to cast multiple Lightning Helixes. You have to rely on Game 2 and 3 for additional life gain. I used Blessed Alliance and not only did it gain me sufficient life but it way also relevant against my Infect matchup.
4. Also with the burn matchup, always make sure to have at least one removal spell in hand. Always assume that you will face a turn 1 creature (Guide or Swiftspear) followed by turn 2 Eidolon. An unanswered Eidolon is gg for us.
5. I didn't find scapeshift difficult. It's probably due to me always landing a turn-2 Thing in the Ice while directing all burn spells to the opponent. 7/8 matches well against their 6/6 titan.
6. I mostly sided out Visions of Beyond. Visions is probably more relevant in a metagame of Abzan/Jund/Grixis. This can easily be replaced with Sleight of Hand if you don't have access to Visions. Other cards I normally cut for sideboarding are Remand, Thought Scour, and sometimes one copy of Lightning Helix, especially when you're bringing in Blood Moon from the sideboard.
7. The sideboard looked solid already and I honestly don't know what else to change. Some people are trying out 2x Bedlam Reveler but I have to test that in the future. I want the deck to maximize on its ability to chain spells for both Pyromancer's Ascension and Thing in the Ice.
Played this a couple of times and liked the deck so far. But I'm no very fond of the remands.
Feel white is necessary only for the helix, real life saver on certain situations.
I played Izzet Charm and its works fine. Alternatively, if your meta is very aggro, you could go with 2 mainboard Angers.
I have cut Remand in favor of Izzet Charm and so far I have liked it so much better than Remand. Early game, it is a hard counter (was able to counter Nahiri a couple games on Turn 4) and late game it turns into a loot spell. I played a couple matches online where it, along with Bolt or Helix, also let me take down Tasigur.
I have Sleight of Hand in the deck instead of Visions of Beyond. I also went down to 2 Faithless Looting since I also run Izzet Charm. Sleight of Hand is effectively "draw 2, discard (put on bottom) 1". Visions are great once my graveyard is full but I have often found myself wanting to cast them earlier than that just to get a new card or transform Thing in the Ice.
I also added in 2 Bedlam Reveler and this made a couple of matches so much better since decks only have so much removal and it "refills" my hand.
I am trying to avoid going too heavy on Sorceries as I want to be able to Transform Thing in the Ice on an opponent's end step or in response to removal if needed so I will see how this list plays with Probes, Serum Visions, Faithless Looting, and Sleight of Hand.
I have added Blessed Alliance to the Sideboard. Blood Moon helped me a game against Grixis (which splashed white) by cutting them off of most of their U mana so I don't plan on cutting them yet as they are still good in certain matchups.
I was thinking about building this deck, not sure what other sideboard cards i want right now so that is a work in progress. I know my build isnt running Ascension but this was the closest thread i could find. Would love some feedback on the deck because its either this, or Nacatyl Burn for what i build next.
I think your list is more suitable in the Burn page. I'm sure there will be some discussion on Naya vs Jeskai vs traditional Burn there. Unfortunately, Burn plays a little different than this deck, even though they both might seem similar, but each deck has its own pros and cons. I'm fairly certain that the decklist you posted is more closely related to Burn than it is to our deck here, so posting there might get you more useful feedback, rather than steering our Ascension deck discussions off course. Having said that, I might be wrong though, what does everybody else think?
I have Sleight of Hand in the deck instead of Visions of Beyond. I also went down to 2 Faithless Looting since I also run Izzet Charm. Sleight of Hand is effectively "draw 2, discard (put on bottom) 1". Visions are great once my graveyard is full but I have often found myself wanting to cast them earlier than that just to get a new card or transform Thing in the Ice.
I am trying to avoid going too heavy on Sorceries as I want to be able to Transform Thing in the Ice on an opponent's end step or in response to removal if needed so I will see how this list plays with Probes, Serum Visions, Faithless Looting, and Sleight of Hand.
Back on topic, I feel that Sleigh vs Visions is up to personal decklist preference. I think that if you're going for Thing maindeck, then Visions is slightly better due to the ability to transform at instant speed. However, if you follow Sam Black's list with Swiftspears main and Thing in the SB, then Sleight is far superior.
Also, WHEE~~~ 100th post after years of Skulking on MTGS forums =).
what about noxious revival, i really liked that card, instead of 2 visions from beyond, because one in graveyard and one in hand can easily trigger ascension, free counter removal from thing, and having 10 kind of bolt, and even doubled with ascension can really help with removal, and even can hose opponent top deck ! (a very versatile card!) i dislike visions much, its only good in the late game, and then , noxious is really really good, one problem though is life you pay, against burn this really hurts..
Revival is one of those things that you either like or dislike in the deck. It gives a way to win against an infinite life combo, but when I play(ed?) 2 in the deck, I found that they don't really do enough. Plus, if you're using them to "regrowth" a threat/trigger Ascension, the 2 life might not always be irrelevant. If you were to watch Sam Black's post-game wrap up, he mentions that the revivals were not really a big deal. The slots that they occupy in the deck are the flex slots. Feel free to test it out. However, if you really want to play them, I think would be better to treat them as actual combo pieces and play 3, just so that you could actually find them consistently to go off.
If you dislike Visions, the usual substitute is Sleight of Hand.
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[Modern] RBGU Dredge RBGU RG Ponza RG UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR] G Titania, Protector of Argoth G UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
I'm a long time URx player (still trying to find a deck after the twin ban!). I generally play Grixis Delver but the deck feel a little too fair and slow in the current format, and I'm looking for something faster and less interactive. I've had a lot of fun playing storm, but I don't think the deck is strong enough to compete, even with a 4 TiTi plan in the side (can fold very hard to hate or random maindeck hosers like scooze or Eidolons). As going up to 4 TiTI in the SB increased dramatically my win % postboard, I tried the UWR ascention deck in mtgo "tournament practice" room yesterday night (the GP list, with Sleight of hand instead of visions of beyond, didn't want to buy them).
So the deck did admirably well, I won like 10-15 matches in a row (given that the level of competition in these free rooms is really really low: mostly jank decks/brews, or tier decks piloted badly).
I still have some questions about the list:
-First: what are the main perks over traditional storm (that can transform into this deck post board). From my first testing, I'm guessing this one is slower/less combo-y but also more consistant, maybe harder to interact with/to disrupt? Also actually winnable burn MU?
- Then, about the Visions of beyond: I really don't get it, and I'm not willing to invest betwin 25 and 40euro/tix to test them. Are they really good vs sleight? I see by reading the thread that a lot of people here prefere sleight, but all the list I see 5-0ing leagues+tamada run the visions.
- About the Jund MU. It seems horrible. I manadged to win against control (RUG & Nahiri) yesterday with ascention, but didn't face Jund. I'm thinking Revelers make this MU better any thoughts from those who tested? Not convinced by moon in the side against them (+nonbo with path as many of you said). What about revelers in the SB? Other SB tech like 4 Snapcaster Mages+ counterspells to transform into control? Or maybe young pyros/mentors (so you can play them and make a bunch of tokens). I'm really strugling to find an answer. Most of the meta currently can't interact a lot with what we're doing, but Jund still has a high meta share.
- Is there any infinite combo in the deck? I think I've read something about remand with 2 active ascention in this thread some time ago? Another question linked to this one: do you ever struggle to actually win a game? Like no more win conditions? Yesterday against monoW soul sisters, my opponent was at 30 life, and pathed all my things. I had already used/discarded some bolts, and I managed to win with 2 ascentions+ draw the last 20ish cards in my deck to find helixes and finish him, but I was very close to not being able to win despite drawing my whole deck
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MTGO Username: Tajicyolo
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show Duel Commander:Kess High Tide Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
So I finally got around to trying this deck today and can I say it is sweet. I played Sam's 60 except replaced the 2 Noxious Revivals with Forked Bolt. I also replaced a reveler with a Thing in the Ice main so that I had access to the full 4 in the 75. I rehauled the sideboard, notable inclusions are 3 Blood Moon which give the deck some game against control/midrange grindefest decks.
As far as first impressions go, I must say this deck really takes me back to the good old days of UR Treasure Cruise Delver. It really had the feel of the deck just minus the couple permission spells that the deck played (not that this deck needs permission in the main). Swiftspear was amazing, and they can punch through for quite a bit of damage. Since I only had 1 TiTi main I really didn't get to test it much, but I think it's fine (and as Sam Black said it just feels like a worse Young Pyromancer). The only card that I really didn't like was Faithless Looting, as the card was straight disadvantage everytime. Maybe the card is really good and the inner storm player in me just hates it since the card is counter-intuitive to the game plan of amassing lots of spells together. Regardless, I will be shaving a copy, and possibly another for more copies of Forked Bolt and/or may try to add more TiTi to the main because they seem fine there. Not sure if that will be too many threats but I will be willing to try it. Reveler was a bit disappointing, most likely since I was hoping it would be a lot like Treasure Cruise, which it is not at all sadly. I think 2-3 copies in this deck is fine vs. the grindy decks but might not be worthy of including in the main deck.
Anyway deck is great, feels like the child of UR Storm and UR Cruise Delver so I love it.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
I have been testing Izzet Charm in place of Remand for now just to see what it does and I really like the card so far. I think you're right that a split is probably best and so far I think Izzet Charm fits somewhere in the deck.
I will try Izzet Charm. You have the literal card advantage thru Remands that get doubled and you get the card draw, but this is not worth it. We need cards that have multiple purposes and Izzet Charms looting works very well imo for us. Might do a split with Remand and/or shave the Remands totally.
Thing is blood moon is too good against tri color control decks. Maybe a Thrun like creature for Jeskai? Only card i can think of is Geist but he's not good enuf imo.
While that is true it can not be overstated how bad path and blood moon are together. And that makes for some really awkward sideboarding against abzan since you want both cards here. Both in terms of your manabase and because of the fact that did you give them the basics they need to cast their spells. Maybe revelver can be the midrange trumph that the deck need but im doubtful. Atm I like bringing in young pyromancer from the sideboard. In bolt match ups most people bring out some number of them and against a path deck it is a must kill. Also being less graveyard depended is really nice aswell compared to something like revelver
True. I think in conjunction both cards are not good. The white splash which we hose ourselves when we turn on Blood Moon has also strong Sb options. AS much as I Love the Moons, I think we have to get rid off them. But white offers more SB options. I might look into it ...
The only card that I really didn't like was Faithless Looting, as the card was straight disadvantage everytime. Maybe the card is really good and the inner storm player in me just hates it since the card is counter-intuitive to the game plan of amassing lots of spells together. Regardless, I will be shaving a copy, and possibly another for more copies of Forked Bolt and/or may try to add more TiTi to the main because they seem fine there.
Faithless is so crucial to turnin on your Ascension early. Also it functions as a lategame draw. Maybe you have a dead land drop in your hand and you can turn it into a card via slashbacking Faithless Looting.
Reveler was a bit disappointing, most likely since I was hoping it would be a lot like Treasure Cruise, which it is not at all sadly. I think 2-3 copies in this deck is fine vs. the grindy decks but might not be worthy of including in the main deck.
Reveler serves its purpose by fueling your hand when your gas goes out. It also functions as a thing they must remove as soon as it hits the board. I think Reveler is better tho in Sams build.
Lol, I also am still finding the right deck after Twin and I also came to this place recently. I certainly don't have all the awnsers, but as far as visions of beyond go; I think it's important to have alot of instances to 'go off' in your opponents turn or respond to removal.
Lol, all the poeple coming from the Twins? Wouldnt a Faether Vial deck suit you more? Nah, just kidding. I love the attention you guys and gals give the deck We need your help to make it even better
As far as "dead draws" later on, I can see at a certain point wanting to get rid of lands, but without access to rituals and Past in Flames, we need to hit a lot of land drops to be able to chain lots of spells together. It might be incorrect, but for now I've gone down to 3 and replaced them with Visions of Beyond. Card has been fine as a Reach through Mists and is fantastic in the grindy matchups.
As far as the Revelers main go, I'm gonna try a different approach and run 4 Things main (or maybe a 3-1 split) and have 3 Revelers in the side. Every single time but 1 instance I had some gas in my hand that I never had the chance to pitch and ended up killing them anyway (or died) before I had a chance to dish everything to cast the Reveler. I am currently running Sam's build and maybe that is why I haven't had a chance to cast reveler.
Also to anyone that wants to try it out, Forked Bolt is straight gas and I highly approve of it. Or you can play Looting/Visions instead like Sam did.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
As far as "dead draws" later on, I can see at a certain point wanting to get rid of lands, but without access to rituals and Past in Flames, we need to hit a lot of land drops to be able to chain lots of spells together. It might be incorrect, but for now I've gone down to 3 and replaced them with Visions of Beyond. Card has been fine as a Reach through Mists and is fantastic in the grindy matchups.
As far as the Revelers main go, I'm gonna try a different approach and run 4 Things main (or maybe a 3-1 split) and have 3 Revelers in the side. Every single time but 1 instance I had some gas in my hand that I never had the chance to pitch and ended up killing them anyway (or died) before I had a chance to dish everything to cast the Reveler. I am currently running Sam's build and maybe that is why I haven't had a chance to cast reveler.
Also to anyone that wants to try it out, Forked Bolt is straight gas and I highly approve of it. Or you can play Looting/Visions instead like Sam did.
We are not Storm. We do not need much land drops. I won games consistently with four lands, even some with two.
Regarding the Thing in The Ice: The cards is fantastic in its own right. For some MUs it's a blocker/mass bouncer that gets in for 7, for others it's just too slow. While we have two varying builds at the moment (Sam Blacks UR and Ryoichis UWR) I think I am gonna settle somewhere in between and put the things in the SB mostly. I am still on the thought-train tho. So expect a list next week
Also for those that are looking for better removal spells for goyf, Tasigur, Eidolon of Rhetoric etc... Spite of Mogis is a card that works in a similar manner to Harvest Pyre except it does not interfere with out game plan and it's only 1 mana. Since the deck runs 30-32 instants and sorceries the card scales really well as the game progresses. The only situation it would be worse is vs. Eldrazi and Taxes that has the big eldrazis and can bring in Rest in Peace but that deck is not even tier 3. The card may not be Path, but is an efficient removal spell for the side.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
On Visions.
Let's you put counters on a Ascension at instant speed. Useful agaist an Ooze, Surgical or other styles of targeted graveyard interaction. Let's you flip Thing in response to an attack or EOT. Instant is so much better than Sorcery.
On Remand.
I have found its best use is to put the tokens you need on Ascension. Cast your spell, trigger, Remand it, recast, Ascension online.
As a counter it is lacking, as a combo piece it is lacklustre, but having the option to be both is handy. It's in not way a MVP though but it does just enough that so far that I wish to keep trialling it.
On Faithless.
It's not bad, but you have to be willing to just ditch good cards. I have found the most use casting it turn one, ditching another looting, Ascension on turn two, then flashback for a counter. Granted, this only works in control matches, but it really helps.
On Bloodmoon.
Too slow sometimes, blow out others. I would not side it in if I am on the draw.
The deck feels solid, but I desire a token generator in the side. I will be looking at Mentor in place of Moon. Because unless you are against a Big Mana deck, the decks that have issues with Moon usually have issues with two Monk tokens too. Also Bolt and block...
I play this as a control deck and then a combo deck. All my Bolts are earmarked for Creatures first, unless it looks like I am going to kill them if I change target. Saving myself 2 damage may mean an extra turn. An extra turn can mean an extra 7 or 8 cards. When you think of it that way, it makes sense to hit your land drops, sit back and draw while controlling.
I am currentl working on a prier for the deck and I am glad for any aditional testing data you could provide So if you get results it would be nice if you come back to this deck-thread or the new primer and tell us how it worked out
Also another question onto the SB: which card would you take to replace Blood Moon? As some in this thread pointed out it seems resonable to get rid of them, because of your greedy mana base and get some other hate.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Feel white is necessary only for the helix, real life saver on certain situations.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-HjF9Jl-4X0lLUU9zbnFSctRvhXHWa5W
I've never felt that Thing + Swiftspear is a non-bo. You could just always recast the swiftspears and attack anyway even if they;re smaller. Also, if you time things properly and have enough mana, you can leave Thing at 1 counter for a turn, then transform it on the following turn, recast swiftspears, then continue the cantrip chain.
As for Reveller, its a Horror. Not bounced by Thing =).
Thanks, man. Been looking for that for a while. Forgot to reply to Kingfuzius.
I played Izzet Charm and its works fine. Alternatively, if your meta is very aggro, you could go with 2 mainboard Angers.
That's why I went for purely U/R. I think its a metagame call. Play Jeskai colours if your meta is full of burn and aggro; play U/R if its more midrange. In my case, I'm going U/R coz of Abzan and Scapeshift at my LGS.
In other news, went 1-2 on last Monday's Modern event at my LGS. Got paired against Naya Burn (2-0), BtL Scapeshift (0-2), RW Prison(0-2). Went with 2 mainboard Angers this week coz I expected some Merfolk and Abzan Combo. I'm playing a pure UR version built by Sam Black with Swiftspears main and Things in the side.
Against Naya Burn, G1, Swiftspear combined with instant cantrips ate 2 of his creatures. Then I let him rebuild into a Anger. G2, I go up to the full 4 Angers. His aggro start get wiped by a Turn 3 Anger. He rebuilds, but Thing bounces his entire board again next turn.
Against Scapeshift, G1 and G2, his Remands and Tribe Elders serve as roadblocks to my Aggro. He also has the Cryptic to bounce my Ascension and just combos out on turn 7.
Against RW Prison, G1, he just grinds me down, removing all my threats and ascensions and wait till I draw my library out. G2, T1 Chalice X=1; T2, RiP; T4 Chalice X=2. GG.
I do honestly think my meta too hostile against this deck and will probably stop playing it for a while, despite how much I like it. =(
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
Instead of Remand, I run 2x Bedlam Reveler and 1x Isochron Scepter.
I played Sleight of Hand instead of Visions of Beyond. (I own both but favor Sleight of Hand.)
I also play one main deck Plains to play around Blood Moon.
Game 1 vs Jund 0-2
His permanent removal and hand removal keeps my threats off the field. Tough matchup. At one point he uses up a ton of removal and I stick a Bedlam Reveler without answer, but he has two humongous Goyfs and I don't draw Path.
Game 2 vs RG Tron 2-1
First match, I am on the play and win with Ascension when he can't find his Tron lands soon enough.
Match 2, he's on the play. He finds his tron lands by turn 3 and plays Karn. I've got a turn 3 Blood Moon, but it doesn't matter with his Karn on the board.
Game 3, I board in some counters and board out Reveler. Reveler is nice if there's the possibility of a grindy game, but playing against tron is a race.
I counter his turn 2 Sylvan Scrying with Swan Song. He was counting on that for assembling tron and that slows him enough to get the win by turn 4 with two swings from Titi, a bolt, and helix to the face.
Game 2 vs Abzan Coco 2-0
Match 1, I drew a hand with Titi and heavy on the bolts/helixes. I play the control deck, removing his creatures to prevent the combo early game and winning when I drop a second thing and flip it on the later turns.
Match 2, I board in Anger of the Gods. I play two Angers this match which keep his field completely suppressed and win with Ascension and Scepter.
Finished 2-2
Game 1 Jeskai Nahiri 2-1
Match 1 he couldn't beat me, Went control and with a titi on the board it was game over.
Match 2: He leylined on his turn. Beantown time, but could kill my titi with double bolt before it could flip with her Nahiri on the field, ultimated for Emrakul.
Match 3: He mulligans to five searching for leyline and lands, after that it was an easy race for me.
Game 2 Living Dead 1-2
Match 1: I screwed at tapping with a reamed on hand, He cascades and it was too much for me on turn 4, but I think having the ability to flip a titi can reverse the match.
Added a swan song from the sb.
Match 2: I countered his first living end, started pressuring him and could beat him.
Match 2: Countered the first living end, and he even played it from his hand. I tapped out with a titi and ascension, on his turn he cascades, game over.
Lost to my mistakes.
Game 3 Jund 1-2
Jund or any BG combination is a tough match up for us.
Match 1: was beaten by a giant 5,6 Tarmo and just couldn't do much other than bolting him.
Match 2:Sided the titi out and added 2 bedlams and blood moon. Could play mine and with a bedlam on turn 5 won.
Match 3: Grinder me with a Tarmo and Liliana on the field after 2 thoughts. On a sidenote thought scoured one of my paths.
Game 3 Living end 2-0
Another living end, I learned from my mistakes.
Match 1: Countered his first living end, the second I couldn't but on my turn played and flipped a titi.
Match 2: He could exile my ascensions, but in a grinding match could overcome it through a titi and a bolt.
Game 4 Nahiri with land destruction
Match 1: Got mana screwed and couldn't dig to find a third land, couldn't do much.
Match 2: Went control, he had to play a nahiri to destroy my tapped titi, but bolted it next turn. After that he couldn't do much.
Match 3: Very grindy match, destroyed two Nahiris. Could activate an ascension and a flipped thing on the ice, with two lands. He wraths my thing, played a second ascension, got my red land destroyed and digged found a red land and after a string of manamorphoses could win.
Overall liked the deck, I like visions of beyond but were on my first cards sided out.
Burn hate and graveyard hate our biggest enemies after that I think abrupt decay.
These were my matchups:
Round 1 - Mono-red Burn --> 2-1
Round 2 - R/G Scapeshift --> 2-0
Round 3 - R/W Burn --> 2-1
Round 4 - Naya Burn --> 0-2
Round 5 - Ascendency Combo --> 2-1
Round 6 - Elves --> 0-2
Round 7 - Infect --> 2-1
Round 8 - Mono-Green Devotion --> 2-0
Round 9 - Amulet w/ Sakura-tribe Scout --> 2-1
Notable moments that I experienced among my matches:
1. I was able to use manamorphose to pay for a copied Summoner's pact, which bought me one turn to find the relevant burn spell.
2. I could have won against elves but spot removal can only do so much. It was the first time that I flipped Titi but still lose because... SPELLSKITE IS A FREAKING HORROR !#^@#$$!#!@#.
3. The burn matchup is difficult game 1 unless you're able to cast multiple Lightning Helixes. You have to rely on Game 2 and 3 for additional life gain. I used Blessed Alliance and not only did it gain me sufficient life but it way also relevant against my Infect matchup.
4. Also with the burn matchup, always make sure to have at least one removal spell in hand. Always assume that you will face a turn 1 creature (Guide or Swiftspear) followed by turn 2 Eidolon. An unanswered Eidolon is gg for us.
5. I didn't find scapeshift difficult. It's probably due to me always landing a turn-2 Thing in the Ice while directing all burn spells to the opponent. 7/8 matches well against their 6/6 titan.
6. I mostly sided out Visions of Beyond. Visions is probably more relevant in a metagame of Abzan/Jund/Grixis. This can easily be replaced with Sleight of Hand if you don't have access to Visions. Other cards I normally cut for sideboarding are Remand, Thought Scour, and sometimes one copy of Lightning Helix, especially when you're bringing in Blood Moon from the sideboard.
7. The sideboard looked solid already and I honestly don't know what else to change. Some people are trying out 2x Bedlam Reveler but I have to test that in the future. I want the deck to maximize on its ability to chain spells for both Pyromancer's Ascension and Thing in the Ice.
I have Sleight of Hand in the deck instead of Visions of Beyond. I also went down to 2 Faithless Looting since I also run Izzet Charm. Sleight of Hand is effectively "draw 2, discard (put on bottom) 1". Visions are great once my graveyard is full but I have often found myself wanting to cast them earlier than that just to get a new card or transform Thing in the Ice.
I also added in 2 Bedlam Reveler and this made a couple of matches so much better since decks only have so much removal and it "refills" my hand.
I am trying to avoid going too heavy on Sorceries as I want to be able to Transform Thing in the Ice on an opponent's end step or in response to removal if needed so I will see how this list plays with Probes, Serum Visions, Faithless Looting, and Sleight of Hand.
I have added Blessed Alliance to the Sideboard. Blood Moon helped me a game against Grixis (which splashed white) by cutting them off of most of their U mana so I don't plan on cutting them yet as they are still good in certain matchups.
I think your list is more suitable in the Burn page. I'm sure there will be some discussion on Naya vs Jeskai vs traditional Burn there. Unfortunately, Burn plays a little different than this deck, even though they both might seem similar, but each deck has its own pros and cons. I'm fairly certain that the decklist you posted is more closely related to Burn than it is to our deck here, so posting there might get you more useful feedback, rather than steering our Ascension deck discussions off course. Having said that, I might be wrong though, what does everybody else think?
Back on topic, I feel that Sleigh vs Visions is up to personal decklist preference. I think that if you're going for Thing maindeck, then Visions is slightly better due to the ability to transform at instant speed. However, if you follow Sam Black's list with Swiftspears main and Thing in the SB, then Sleight is far superior.
Also, WHEE~~~ 100th post after years of Skulking on MTGS forums =).
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
Revival is one of those things that you either like or dislike in the deck. It gives a way to win against an infinite life combo, but when I play(ed?) 2 in the deck, I found that they don't really do enough. Plus, if you're using them to "regrowth" a threat/trigger Ascension, the 2 life might not always be irrelevant. If you were to watch Sam Black's post-game wrap up, he mentions that the revivals were not really a big deal. The slots that they occupy in the deck are the flex slots. Feel free to test it out. However, if you really want to play them, I think would be better to treat them as actual combo pieces and play 3, just so that you could actually find them consistently to go off.
If you dislike Visions, the usual substitute is Sleight of Hand.
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
I'm a long time URx player (still trying to find a deck after the twin ban!). I generally play Grixis Delver but the deck feel a little too fair and slow in the current format, and I'm looking for something faster and less interactive. I've had a lot of fun playing storm, but I don't think the deck is strong enough to compete, even with a 4 TiTi plan in the side (can fold very hard to hate or random maindeck hosers like scooze or Eidolons). As going up to 4 TiTI in the SB increased dramatically my win % postboard, I tried the UWR ascention deck in mtgo "tournament practice" room yesterday night (the GP list, with Sleight of hand instead of visions of beyond, didn't want to buy them).
So the deck did admirably well, I won like 10-15 matches in a row (given that the level of competition in these free rooms is really really low: mostly jank decks/brews, or tier decks piloted badly).
I still have some questions about the list:
-First: what are the main perks over traditional storm (that can transform into this deck post board). From my first testing, I'm guessing this one is slower/less combo-y but also more consistant, maybe harder to interact with/to disrupt? Also actually winnable burn MU?
- Then, about the Visions of beyond: I really don't get it, and I'm not willing to invest betwin 25 and 40euro/tix to test them. Are they really good vs sleight? I see by reading the thread that a lot of people here prefere sleight, but all the list I see 5-0ing leagues+tamada run the visions.
- About the Jund MU. It seems horrible. I manadged to win against control (RUG & Nahiri) yesterday with ascention, but didn't face Jund. I'm thinking Revelers make this MU better any thoughts from those who tested? Not convinced by moon in the side against them (+nonbo with path as many of you said). What about revelers in the SB? Other SB tech like 4 Snapcaster Mages+ counterspells to transform into control? Or maybe young pyros/mentors (so you can play them and make a bunch of tokens). I'm really strugling to find an answer. Most of the meta currently can't interact a lot with what we're doing, but Jund still has a high meta share.
- Is there any infinite combo in the deck? I think I've read something about remand with 2 active ascention in this thread some time ago? Another question linked to this one: do you ever struggle to actually win a game? Like no more win conditions? Yesterday against monoW soul sisters, my opponent was at 30 life, and pathed all my things. I had already used/discarded some bolts, and I managed to win with 2 ascentions+ draw the last 20ish cards in my deck to find helixes and finish him, but I was very close to not being able to win despite drawing my whole deck
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
As far as first impressions go, I must say this deck really takes me back to the good old days of UR Treasure Cruise Delver. It really had the feel of the deck just minus the couple permission spells that the deck played (not that this deck needs permission in the main). Swiftspear was amazing, and they can punch through for quite a bit of damage. Since I only had 1 TiTi main I really didn't get to test it much, but I think it's fine (and as Sam Black said it just feels like a worse Young Pyromancer). The only card that I really didn't like was Faithless Looting, as the card was straight disadvantage everytime. Maybe the card is really good and the inner storm player in me just hates it since the card is counter-intuitive to the game plan of amassing lots of spells together. Regardless, I will be shaving a copy, and possibly another for more copies of Forked Bolt and/or may try to add more TiTi to the main because they seem fine there. Not sure if that will be too many threats but I will be willing to try it. Reveler was a bit disappointing, most likely since I was hoping it would be a lot like Treasure Cruise, which it is not at all sadly. I think 2-3 copies in this deck is fine vs. the grindy decks but might not be worthy of including in the main deck.
Anyway deck is great, feels like the child of UR Storm and UR Cruise Delver so I love it.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
I will try Izzet Charm. You have the literal card advantage thru Remands that get doubled and you get the card draw, but this is not worth it. We need cards that have multiple purposes and Izzet Charms looting works very well imo for us. Might do a split with Remand and/or shave the Remands totally.
True. I think in conjunction both cards are not good. The white splash which we hose ourselves when we turn on Blood Moon has also strong Sb options. AS much as I Love the Moons, I think we have to get rid off them. But white offers more SB options. I might look into it ...
Faithless is so crucial to turnin on your Ascension early. Also it functions as a lategame draw. Maybe you have a dead land drop in your hand and you can turn it into a card via slashbacking Faithless Looting.
Reveler serves its purpose by fueling your hand when your gas goes out. It also functions as a thing they must remove as soon as it hits the board. I think Reveler is better tho in Sams build.
Lol, all the poeple coming from the Twins? Wouldnt a Faether Vial deck suit you more? Nah, just kidding. I love the attention you guys and gals give the deck We need your help to make it even better
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
As far as the Revelers main go, I'm gonna try a different approach and run 4 Things main (or maybe a 3-1 split) and have 3 Revelers in the side. Every single time but 1 instance I had some gas in my hand that I never had the chance to pitch and ended up killing them anyway (or died) before I had a chance to dish everything to cast the Reveler. I am currently running Sam's build and maybe that is why I haven't had a chance to cast reveler.
Also to anyone that wants to try it out, Forked Bolt is straight gas and I highly approve of it. Or you can play Looting/Visions instead like Sam did.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
We are not Storm. We do not need much land drops. I won games consistently with four lands, even some with two.
Regarding the Thing in The Ice: The cards is fantastic in its own right. For some MUs it's a blocker/mass bouncer that gets in for 7, for others it's just too slow. While we have two varying builds at the moment (Sam Blacks UR and Ryoichis UWR) I think I am gonna settle somewhere in between and put the things in the SB mostly. I am still on the thought-train tho. So expect a list next week
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
Let's you put counters on a Ascension at instant speed. Useful agaist an Ooze, Surgical or other styles of targeted graveyard interaction. Let's you flip Thing in response to an attack or EOT. Instant is so much better than Sorcery.
On Remand.
I have found its best use is to put the tokens you need on Ascension. Cast your spell, trigger, Remand it, recast, Ascension online.
As a counter it is lacking, as a combo piece it is lacklustre, but having the option to be both is handy. It's in not way a MVP though but it does just enough that so far that I wish to keep trialling it.
On Faithless.
It's not bad, but you have to be willing to just ditch good cards. I have found the most use casting it turn one, ditching another looting, Ascension on turn two, then flashback for a counter. Granted, this only works in control matches, but it really helps.
On Bloodmoon.
Too slow sometimes, blow out others. I would not side it in if I am on the draw.
The deck feels solid, but I desire a token generator in the side. I will be looking at Mentor in place of Moon. Because unless you are against a Big Mana deck, the decks that have issues with Moon usually have issues with two Monk tokens too. Also Bolt and block...
I play this as a control deck and then a combo deck. All my Bolts are earmarked for Creatures first, unless it looks like I am going to kill them if I change target. Saving myself 2 damage may mean an extra turn. An extra turn can mean an extra 7 or 8 cards. When you think of it that way, it makes sense to hit your land drops, sit back and draw while controlling.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.