This thread was marked as Locked by Lantern.
Quote from creamy99 »I have always loved the Rites package in the old Dredgevine lists from the older days. I give you props for running it.
But, without any removal with the exception of 2 Darkblast, and cards that are usually sideboard cards, how do you even win? Life from the Loam is good, but as a 2 of with 22 lands, it definitely seems out of place. I can see the Gnaw to the Bone from taking all the damage with fetch and shock lands.
Personally, just from looking at this without testing it, I think that moving the Darkblast to the sideboard and cutting Life from the Loam maybe altogether and replacing them with either Abrupt Decay or Lightning Bolt would do you a lot of good. Even Lightning Axe has potential to work here, but without some decent removal, I find it near impossible to push through all of the necessary damage. Bolt deals the final blow to players, Abrupt Decay deals with Goyf and Lilliana. Getting these out of the way is essential.
Against the decks you said, Darkblast works well vs Soul Sisters, Affinity and Delver. It is terrible vs Pod, Control and Mono-G. Just seems logical to me to be a sideboard card. When I first started playing Dredgevine a year ago, I was gung ho on Darkblast as a 3-4 of because it could dredge. After a few months, I decided to switch it to the SB and replaced it with Bolt. Where I didn't reuse it, I was able to kill the annoying creatures Darkblast couldn't deal with and I started becoming so much more consistent and faster. Just trying to provide some useful suggestions. I'm sure someone from this thread can back me up on this.
Quote from omeomi »Quote from 22bebo »I feel like I'm often wanting some more cards like Grisly Salvage
You could add some dredgers like Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Thug which can also help with getting Vengevines out of the yard since you can cast them after dredging.
Quote from 22bebo »I feel like I'm often wanting some more cards like Grisly Salvage
Quote from capndeevers »I couldn't agree more with the Darkblast sentiments, and this was after playing it in just two matchups. On paper it seems great, but I found myself rarely using it and wishing it was something else in pretty much every game. Same for the Life from the Loam. While great in theory, I cast it once and it was there more for the Dredge aspect than it was for anything else. I didn't post the sideboard, but I had the full set of Abrupt Decay in there and would rather just have them main to start. I'll try either the Lightning Bolt or the Lightning Axe main and see how that works. You're right that I'm a little removal light at the moment. I'll tweak things around and let you know what sticks. Thanks!
Quote from 22bebo »It's a pretty traditional list, I believe. I got bits from the first post of this thread (Outdated, I know,), Frank Lepore's article that he did on it back in February (Also outdated,), and a few comments from skimming this thread. It works fairly well, I think I've won more than I've lost since I started using it. I think that the sideboard needs some work, and I feel like I'm often wanting some more cards like Grisly Salvage. It also can have trouble actually getting Vengevines out of the 'yard sometimes, but that just be the way I play.
Any comments? Questions? I too have been thinking about trying Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile.
Quote from creamy99 »I have stated before that I think Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile are too inconsistent and mana intensive for what we're trying to do. Others agree too. Life from the Loam with 9 diggers is a waste of a slot. You can always grab a land from Salvage or keep one with Looting. Bolts are more consistent than Axe, so I would change them and dump the last Lightning Axe. I believe nine dig cards is too many. Combined with Lotleth Troll, you have enough enablers and not enough creatures. Dump the Burning Inquiry. I find myself playing more consistent with running 3 Grisly Salvage instead of 4 because statistically, it just works better and I'm sure others can also say that 4 is too many. Take the card slots I took out and devote them to creatures (Golgari Thug, Stinkweed Imp, etc). That's the dredge package that makes Dredgevine work (you should have 5-6 of these two in any combination you seem fit. Remember Imp is removal with Deathtouch).
Quote from 22bebo »Yeah, I was reading the latest batch of stuff on Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile. They don't seem worth it upon reflection. I still might try Stockpile to be sure, but definitely not many. You're right, I rarely cast Life from the Loam and Burning Inquiry kind of sucks. I actually really like Axe. Early game I use it to dump stuff to the 'yard while taking out their dorks. And it usually can kill Goyf which is nice. I will probably swap the numbers up between the two, though. I can try 3 Salvage as opposed to 4. It's just a numbers thing, right? (In the fifteen cards you reveal with the first three, you likely hit the fourth at some point.) As I said above, I found the dredgers really slow. I never wanted to cast Golgari Thug and Stinkweed Imp just rarely felt worth it. I might test with them in again, but I'm skeptical.
Any comments on the sideboard? Also, I was thinking about a single Gnaw to the Bone in the main, as I often find that I'm just slightly too slow against some decks and I think it would give more time and help with some matchups (Burn, Scapeshift, most Aggro,)
Quote from creamy99 »The Gnaw to the Bone is a meta call, so that's up to you. Remember that the dredgers are combo with Faithless Looting, so when you cast it on T2/or flashback T3, you can dredge 8-10 cards, which is very common for me and not just a fluke. Otherwise, just play test removal and see what you think
Quote from 22bebo »So you would say that proper thing to do (Usually,) with Faithless Looting is to dredge instead of draw, if possible? I usually don't, but I'll be sure to try it some time soon.
Quote from capndeevers »
creamy99's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (21)1x Blood Crypt1x Breeding Pool1x Forest1x Hallowed Fountain1x Island4x Misty Rainforest1x Overgrown Tomb3x Scalding Tarn1x Steam Vents1x Stomping Ground1x Swamp1x Temple Garden3x Verdant Catacombs1x Watery GraveCreature (27)4x Birds of Paradise4x Bloodghast1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite3x Gravecrawler4x Hedron Crab1x Iona, Shield of Emeria2x Skaab Ruinator4x Stinkweed Imp4x VengevineInstant (6)2x Abrupt Decay2x Gnaw to the Bone2x Lightning BoltSorcery (6)4x Faithless Looting2x Unburial RitesSideboard (15)2x Abrupt Decay2x Ancient Grudge1x Angel of Despair2x Darkblast1x Empyrial Archangel2x Gifts Ungiven2x Ray of Revelation1x Spellskite2x Stony Silence
@creamy - I did what you suggested and mainboarded more removal and it definitely helped (and I didn't miss the Darkblasts at all).
Quote from Topper »
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.