So I notice everyone seems to have thrown Despoiler of Souls out the window super quickly, because of how easily it looks like Bloodghast. However there is one very important difference between these cards. Despoiler's ability can be used at instant speed, where as Bloodghast's usually can't (unless you have a fetch land of course). Additionally there is a surprising different between being a 2/1 and a 3/1.
To make my argument for Despoiler, I'll bring up a card I mentioned the last time I stopped by: Crypt of Agadeem. Not only does Despoiler give you something to do with all the mana you can get from Crypt, it's also a black creature which helps give you more mana in the first place.
Another card I want to test out in this deck is Liliana, Heretical Healer. I was running Liliana of the Veil in my previous Sultai Vengevine lists as both a discard outlet and pseudo-removal. It is possible the Heretical Healer might be a bit better. First off she can be grabbed by Grisly Salvage which is relevant to anyone running it. Second, if you have multiples of her, she'll trigger herself (play the second, Legend rule, flip). Third, when she flips she creates a Zombie which helps us cast our Gravecrawlers. Add to that her planeswalker abilities that are both a discard outlet, and a reanimation effect, and we've got what looks like an awesome creature for Vengevine.
Obviously both of these cards deserve testing, and I'll be sure to let everyone know how any testing I do work.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Pizzap, just a thing about your mana base. 9 fetches is painful. Id switch 1-2 for fastlands. It might save some life and make the marginal difference you need for a 3-1
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pizzap, just a thing about your mana base. 9 fetches is painful. Id switch 1-2 for fastlands. It might save some life and make the marginal difference you need for a 3-1
It is only 1 more than Jund, which plays 8. The thing is that I see myself drawing so many one and two landers with an off-color land, that I need to mull that. With more fetches I have more chance I have the right colors in my starting hand. Unfortunately there isn't a GB fastland, otherwise I would play that. I am also considering Twilight Mire, which fixes the most important colors. It is super pricey though so it may take a while before I try it.
I was a big fan of Varolz/Shadow combo until I realized how little I use it. The cards are pretty weak on their own so they have been cut - and I don't regret it. Scavenge is a also a sorcery speed pump which doesnt help. Apart from Shadow all other creatures make a bad scavenge targets.
Varolz is also pretty irrelevant on it's own. Shadow on the other hand shines in Burn matchup but sometimes he might not make it before we get burned to crisp also I'd rather just Gnaw to the Bone and get away from danger than be on the brink of death with huge creature with no haste and no evasion.
Despoiler is bad but I'd love to test the new Liliana.
Pizzap, how did you like using the Grim Lavamancer?
I've considered him from time to time because I find myself really wanting to just push through a few damage to the face to close the game out a lot of the time. I expect he's also pretty useful for Affinity or any of the CoCo decks running rampant lately.
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Modern: Dredgevine UBRG . Affinity 0 . Grixis Control UBR
Question for those playing a heavier spell list, such as the L237 list. How do you know when to Dredge and when to take your draws? I'm trying to test this version but I don't feel like I'm playing the deck right. I end up dredging my spells, drawing my vines, etc.
I was messing around with the Varolz package, and realized I only used the Death's Shadow because it was a 1-drop. Varolz never was on the field at the right time to scavenge, so I felt like I should drop it. I ended up trading in the Shadows for Death Cultist. How has he not been brought up? It's a 1-drop that lets you sac for a ping while giving you a life. It's not game breaking, but it helps brings out vengevine while letting you chump-block and ping for 1.
Here's my list at the moment:
Land (21)
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Copperline Gorge
2x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
Creature (27)
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Bloodghast
4x Death Cultist
3x Fauna Shaman
4x Gravecrawler
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Vengevine
Sorcery (4)
4x Faithless Looting
Instant (8)
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Grisly Salvage
3x Murderous Cut
Sideboard (14)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Darkblast
2x Golgari Charm
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Surgical Extraction
And I'm thinking of dropping the 2 remaining Bloodghasts and a single Death Cultist to run 3 of one of the following:
Vexing Imp - Another 4/3 my opponent has to deal with. I also don't mind if they decide to take 4, too.
Mistcutter Hydra - I can cast for a single green to help bring out vengevine, or if i have mana to spare it gives me a hasty creature that can't be countered or vapor snag'd
Hex Parasite - Because Planeswalkers irk me.
I was messing around with the Varolz package, and realized I only used the Death's Shadow because it was a 1-drop. Varolz never was on the field at the right time to scavenge, so I felt like I should drop it. I ended up trading in the Shadows for Death Cultist. How has he not been brought up? It's a 1-drop that lets you sac for a ping while giving you a life. It's not game breaking, but it helps brings out vengevine while letting you chump-block and ping for 1.
And I'm thinking of dropping the 2 remaining Bloodghasts and a single Death Cultist to run 3 of one of the following:
Vexing Imp - Another 4/3 my opponent has to deal with. I also don't mind if they decide to take 4, too.
Mistcutter Hydra - I can cast for a single green to help bring out vengevine, or if i have mana to spare it gives me a hasty creature that can't be countered or vapor snag'd
Hex Parasite - Because Planeswalkers irk me.
Does anyone have advice for me?
Deck tags are helpful. Especially when discussing cards that haven't been brought up yet.
I was messing around with the Varolz package, and realized I only used the Death's Shadow because it was a 1-drop. Varolz never was on the field at the right time to scavenge, so I felt like I should drop it. I ended up trading in the Shadows for Death Cultist. How has he not been brought up? It's a 1-drop that lets you sac for a ping while giving you a life. It's not game breaking, but it helps brings out vengevine while letting you chump-block and ping for 1.
This is coming from someone who maindecked 4x Screeching Sliver at one point - every one-drop creature seems playable with Vengevine in your deck, but you need to make sure that it actually does something when Vengevine isn't in your graveyard. Unfortunately I don't think that Death Cultist cuts it, since any one-drop creature will chump just as well, and the drain 1 is a pretty weak effect.
Then what should I play as an alternative? Vexing Devil since it swings for 4 or does 4?
I have a list of around 10-15 different options, those 4 seemed the most promising. Then again, this is going to be my first modern deck, as I usually play EDH.
Most of the successful lists as of late aren't running ineffective 1 drops. Gravecrawler, Faithless Looting, and Darkblast, plus an occasional Axe here and there.
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Hi guys. I'm a Living End and Jund player. I wanna try something different and this deck seems funny to play and also competitive.
Are there some videos to better understand how to play dredge?
Thanks
I'm happy that people are looking for new additions to this deck, I do this every few days (maybe I missed one cool 1CMC zombie but seriously are options are very limited.
I was thinking about this deck earlier and was thinking about how it could possibly make the transition into a turbo mill deck because of the new Jace.
I was wondering if people had been considering Hedron crab more. It's stupid good cause even if you play it on turn two, playing a fetch after, cracking said fetch will net you threshold and then you can play any of the delve creature spells. I'm still theorizing a build right now but I would have at least 5-6 of the delve creature spells, 4 Hedron Crab (possibly my favorite card in all of MTG) Glimpse the Unthinkable, Visions of Beyond, the new draw discard Jace, Zombie Infestation (the deck needs discard outs and it also makes a zombie which lets you cast this next guy) Gravecrawler and Golgari-Grave Troll and Vengevine. The transition would take out the creatures except for the delve creatures and jace and bring in discard with thoughsieze, Archive Trap and Trapmaker's Snare to get you rolling. The thing with Jace is that he lets you cast a spell from your graveyard but doesn't require you to pay the casting cost, you can cast it anyway the card lets you, at least that's how it reads, so if Jace flips and my opponent searched I can cast Achrive trap twice, (once to put it in the graveyard and once from the graveyard), for it's trap cost of zero
Recently tried cutting to 2 grisly salvage and adding 2 GGT and I'm thinking that not running GGT is a mistake in this list. You pretty much never want to cast it, but the synergy with lotleth troll is huge and being able to look for your crawlers/vines for 0 mana makes it much more likely you can cast what you find than paying 2 mana for a salvage.
i really hate zombie infestation. rotting rats is 10x the discard outlet since you really only need to dump vv it gives you ca and can be cast from the gy to restart gc chains
i really hate zombie infestation. rotting rats is 10x the discard outlet since you really only need to dump vv it gives you ca and can be cast from the gy to restart gc chains
I can only agree here. I've been testing him as a 1 of and I like him. Having the extra discard outlet is very helpful. I can wait a turn to cast him in case there's something I want to play first where discarding a Troll / Angler would be a poor decision.
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
To make my argument for Despoiler, I'll bring up a card I mentioned the last time I stopped by: Crypt of Agadeem. Not only does Despoiler give you something to do with all the mana you can get from Crypt, it's also a black creature which helps give you more mana in the first place.
Another card I want to test out in this deck is Liliana, Heretical Healer. I was running Liliana of the Veil in my previous Sultai Vengevine lists as both a discard outlet and pseudo-removal. It is possible the Heretical Healer might be a bit better. First off she can be grabbed by Grisly Salvage which is relevant to anyone running it. Second, if you have multiples of her, she'll trigger herself (play the second, Legend rule, flip). Third, when she flips she creates a Zombie which helps us cast our Gravecrawlers. Add to that her planeswalker abilities that are both a discard outlet, and a reanimation effect, and we've got what looks like an awesome creature for Vengevine.
Obviously both of these cards deserve testing, and I'll be sure to let everyone know how any testing I do work.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Varolz is also pretty irrelevant on it's own. Shadow on the other hand shines in Burn matchup but sometimes he might not make it before we get burned to crisp also I'd rather just Gnaw to the Bone and get away from danger than be on the brink of death with huge creature with no haste and no evasion.
Despoiler is bad but I'd love to test the new Liliana.
I've considered him from time to time because I find myself really wanting to just push through a few damage to the face to close the game out a lot of the time. I expect he's also pretty useful for Affinity or any of the CoCo decks running rampant lately.
Draft My Cube!
Here's my list at the moment:
Land (21)
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Copperline Gorge
2x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
Creature (27)
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Bloodghast
4x Death Cultist
3x Fauna Shaman
4x Gravecrawler
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Vengevine
Sorcery (4)
4x Faithless Looting
Instant (8)
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Grisly Salvage
3x Murderous Cut
Sideboard (14)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Darkblast
2x Golgari Charm
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Surgical Extraction
And I'm thinking of dropping the 2 remaining Bloodghasts and a single Death Cultist to run 3 of one of the following:
Vexing Imp - Another 4/3 my opponent has to deal with. I also don't mind if they decide to take 4, too.
Mistcutter Hydra - I can cast for a single green to help bring out vengevine, or if i have mana to spare it gives me a hasty creature that can't be countered or vapor snag'd
Hex Parasite - Because Planeswalkers irk me.
Does anyone have advice for me?
Deck tags are helpful. Especially when discussing cards that haven't been brought up yet.
Draft My Cube!
This is coming from someone who maindecked 4x Screeching Sliver at one point - every one-drop creature seems playable with Vengevine in your deck, but you need to make sure that it actually does something when Vengevine isn't in your graveyard. Unfortunately I don't think that Death Cultist cuts it, since any one-drop creature will chump just as well, and the drain 1 is a pretty weak effect.
I have a list of around 10-15 different options, those 4 seemed the most promising. Then again, this is going to be my first modern deck, as I usually play EDH.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Are there some videos to better understand how to play dredge?
Thanks
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Swamp
2 Forest
CREATURES 28
4 Gravecrawler
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Gurmag Angler
1 Rotting Rats
4 Faithless Looting
2 Grisly Salvage
2 Lightning Axe
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Murderous Cut
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Duress
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Golgari Charm
The only flexible spot are the Rats. They fight for the spot with The Murder King.
I was wondering if people had been considering Hedron crab more. It's stupid good cause even if you play it on turn two, playing a fetch after, cracking said fetch will net you threshold and then you can play any of the delve creature spells. I'm still theorizing a build right now but I would have at least 5-6 of the delve creature spells, 4 Hedron Crab (possibly my favorite card in all of MTG) Glimpse the Unthinkable, Visions of Beyond, the new draw discard Jace, Zombie Infestation (the deck needs discard outs and it also makes a zombie which lets you cast this next guy) Gravecrawler and Golgari-Grave Troll and Vengevine. The transition would take out the creatures except for the delve creatures and jace and bring in discard with thoughsieze, Archive Trap and Trapmaker's Snare to get you rolling. The thing with Jace is that he lets you cast a spell from your graveyard but doesn't require you to pay the casting cost, you can cast it anyway the card lets you, at least that's how it reads, so if Jace flips and my opponent searched I can cast Achrive trap twice, (once to put it in the graveyard and once from the graveyard), for it's trap cost of zero
That's enough to keep a Vengevine from getting Bolted.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!