These martyr proc decks are a lot more like aggro decks with a CA engine, rather than a true Martyr-Proc deck, at least to me. The cards that beat the Mirror are Mistveil Plains, Nectrotic Sliver, and Emeria. I have been testing 2x nephila drownyard in the sb just for the sake of having a way to win faster in the mirror.
For black heavy builds, Sorin Markov puts them back down to 20 for you, so thats a real option. Blue Sun's Zenith can also force a lot of card draw.
If a deck that plays wrath of gods is gaining 20 life a turn or fogging every turn I feel like it doesnt really matter how many honor of the pures or elspeths you play. Just as long as you have a variety of answers it shouldn't be too significant what dorks are played against you. IE, I play 4 oring for planeswalkers specifically (along with 2 sliver) and 3 wrath effects plus the standard emeria/proc style mid/end game. You pretty much can't beat me by attacking. If your plan in the mirror is to attack, you have to accept that if they resolve ranger for 2 martyrs, or have a proc for their 1 martyr, you likely can never build enough damage to fight through it if their deck is designed properly.
What about surgical extraction? how do we prevent from that? we can find some other way to gain lot of life. If this deck will be more popular sideboard's will run surgical extration. Please help me to find an answer to that!
Any plan against teachings? the game goes on for so long and they end up control every aspect of the game (esper charm / surgical extraction / snapcaster).
I actually like the teachings matchup, personally. It goes on forever, and they have no real method to kill you. If they don't extract the right cards, they also lose for free. Its neat.
I beat him round 1 of that tournament yesterday in the Martyr mirror match. He had 2 cards in his deck and 0 permanents in play but when time was called he had more life. Didn't really know ML was using the sudden death rule but I'm sure if I wanted I could have sac'd 5 martyrs a turn with my 3 emeria double proc for a few turns to win. My mistake for not knowing the rules, but your Martyr deck is nothing special, and has nothing for the mirror match at all. Here's the deck I crushed him easily with. Especially bad-mannered of you since you drew extra cards in the match and couldn't undo the draw, and I let you go on the honor system.
oh and PS: jonothan locke thought of hide/seek 2 years ago in an extended season for a gp, you didn't think of it.
Never said i thought of it. In fact, I credited someone else on MWSplay for the idea.
You may very well have a better list than me, I do think yours is quite good. As far as manners, you were 5 minutes late in the round, and were declared a game loss by the TC. I should have called that on you and decided to be nice. As to who was "Bad-mannered", a game loss is a bit bigger than a warning due to a mis-click.
And your "easy crush" of me was due mainly to the runed halo that you drew without my drawing a Hide... and the "Easy crush" in the one game lasted 45 minutes, and you didnt actually win the game.
My main question to you... How do you ever plan on actually winning matches (not effectively winning, like you did with me) in time with that list? Sure, you may have a better lockdown and matchup against most decks... If you had 2 hours for match. Winning due to misveil plains and making them deck is not a viable strategy.
I guess going 1-0 every match is an option, but still. (perhaps this is simply from the perspective of the 1 game we had though.)
Again- I'll hand it to you that you're list beats the mirror, and wins the long game better, but how do you handle combo? Just rely on Runed halo and hope you choose the right card (Ad nauseum has 2-3 kill sources... so does storm, and splinter twin.)?
I'll definitely test your list, though. Looks super solid.
And, i'm running Jotun Grunt over Proclamation of Rebirth.
...
Oh you killed my 6/6 ascendant, sure, shuffle it back in, attack you for 4, play ranger fetching said 6/6 again.
Being able to put 2 Ascendant (along with something else) straight into play is easier than shuffling it back into the deck, fetching it into your hand, and then hard casting it.
1 card, 3 mana > 3 cards, 7 mana.
I do see the point of having a good turn 2 beater though.
Overall, my deck is currently 15-4 (I use the original Proc build, my list is posted on page 2 or 3). It's going great. However, for the sake of personally knowing which one is better, I will try the Martyr-n'-Seek build.
Never said i thought of it. In fact, I credited someone else on MWSplay for the idea.
You may very well have a better list than me, I do think yours is quite good. As far as manners, you were 5 minutes late in the round, and were declared a game loss by the TC. I should have called that on you and decided to be nice. As to who was "Bad-mannered", a game loss is a bit bigger than a warning due to a mis-click.
And your "easy crush" of me was due mainly to the runed halo that you drew without my drawing a Hide... and the "Easy crush" in the one game lasted 45 minutes, and you didnt actually win the game.
My main question to you... How do you ever plan on actually winning matches (not effectively winning, like you did with me) in time with that list? Sure, you may have a better lockdown and matchup against most decks... If you had 2 hours for match. Winning due to misveil plains and making them deck is not a viable strategy.
I guess going 1-0 every match is an option, but still. (perhaps this is simply from the perspective of the 1 game we had though.)
Again- I'll hand it to you that you're list beats the mirror, and wins the long game better, but how do you handle combo? Just rely on Runed halo and hope you choose the right card (Ad nauseum has 2-3 kill sources... so does storm, and splinter twin.)?
I'll definitely test your list, though. Looks super solid.
EDIT: Yep- teaching MU is quite easy.
Ad Naus/Angel's Grace is your worst G1 matchup, Grapeshot/Warrens storm is fairly winnable though due to Martyr making it harder for them to combo and Runed Halo naming grapeshot.
The SB includes a **** load of cards that are exclusively for combo matchups. Generally speaking, g2/3 aren't terrible and you can just beat them down with whatever random dorks you draw while making sure to cast the enchantments/dudes that lock em down.
As for 'finishing games' you have to note we were playing the Martyr mirror match, the only matchup where Ive ever gone to time in my entire life. In nearly a thousands DCI sanctioned matches I have 1 draw from 2 years ago in the Martyr mirror in a PTQ. I am a fast player, I make choices quickly and encourage my opponents to play quickly as well. Any other deck falls much faster to the lockdown and I can generally just get back some rangers/drifters and beat them down from 17 or whatever they are at. Additionally, I've been experimenting with a Nephila Drownyard to help speed up the mirror, but really I've come to the conclusion that it is probably not needed and I should just recognize its impossible to die in the mirror and just take 5 second long turns.
Cockatrice hasn't been working for me today so I haven't had a chance to try something I just thought of, but in a more aggressive build would Mikaeus, the Lunarch have a place? He's a good way to spend mana in a deck that runs pretty low costs and can be searched for by your Ranger. Might just be a win-more card but I think he could possibly replace Honor of the Pure in builds that run that. Tomorrow I'll try running somebody else's deck making that change.
I tried Mikaeus as a 1-of. He ended up being another Student of Warfare/Figure of Destiny much of the time. So I swapped him for a Figure (I had 2 Students).
He might behave differently as a 3- to 4-of, though.
I've played about 25 games now with this deck. I've never got Figure of Destiny to become an 8/8 with flying and first strike. However, I tend to have Student of Warfare become a 4/4 Double Striker relatively easy (due to the fact I can drop 1 or 2 mana on him whenever, whereas Figure requires an up-front 5).
As much as I like the thought of Figure of Destiny in the deck, he just hasn't worked out yet. I may:
-2 Figure of Destiny
+2 Student of Warfare (total of 4 MD)
I honestly think that both Figure and Student suck. They do nothing for our bad matchups but suck up mana and are unnecessary in our good ones. Surely Mikaeus is better, though he runs into the same problem (I run none of them).
I honestly think that both Figure and Student suck. They do nothing for our bad matchups but suck up mana and are unnecessary in our good ones. Surely Mikaeus is better, though he runs into the same problem (I run none of them).
The problem with all these decklists I see here is that you are playing a white weenie deck with random martyr of sands thrown in. This is completely counter-intuitive. If you want to attrition people out with Martyr - build an attrition deck, if you want to attack with white weenies - Build a white weenie deck.
Its really that simple. Playing 2 Emerias and 2 Procs but don't play 1 mana 1/1s, playing honor of the pure and spectral procession and windbrisk heights. Gaining life is not conducive to killing your opponent, and attacking your opponent with students and figures is not conducive to making Martyr of Sands matter.
So pick a game plan and stick with it, plan to attack or plan to abuse martyr. Being 50/50 will just make for more bad matchups and awkward draws.
The problem with all these decklists I see here is that you are playing a white weenie deck with random martyr of sands thrown in. This is completely counter-intuitive. If you want to attrition people out with Martyr - build an attrition deck, if you want to attack with white weenies - Build a white weenie deck.
Its really that simple. Playing 2 Emerias and 2 Procs but don't play 1 mana 1/1s, playing honor of the pure and spectral procession and windbrisk heights. Gaining life is not conducive to killing your opponent, and attacking your opponent with students and figures is not conducive to making Martyr of Sands matter.
So pick a game plan and stick with it, plan to attack or plan to abuse martyr. Being 50/50 will just make for more bad match-ups and awkward draws.
This.
Honor of the Pure seems so random and bad when I usually end up winning the game with 1-3 creatures on the field. I really don't think +1/+1 changes the game for 2 creatures. I mean, I guess it's better with Spectral Procession, but it's not worth the splash.
I'm totally up for some decent criticism and construction on the deck, but those cards clearly go in a different direction for the deck. It doesn't mesh well. If you really want tokens (S. Procession), well... we're playing Elspeth, Knight-Errant for a reason, right?
Hey guys, here's the 75 that I am running. I'm pretty new to modern, so any and all feedback is appreciated. I am playing in a PTQ this Saturday, so I could maybe post a tournament report type thing. Thanks!
Hey guys, here's the 75 that I am running. I'm pretty new to modern, so any and all feedback is appreciated. I am playing in a PTQ this Saturday, so I could maybe post a tournament report type thing. Thanks!
Kataki is a great card, but has a weak immune system: dies to board sweeps, and can be targeted by practically anything (Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, Doom Blade, everything). Stony is great because enchantment-hate isn't found in every deck, and it shut down Affinity badly. It's just as a good of a card.
Otherwise, I think the deck looks ace. I personally run 4 Arid Mesa. I haven't had a problem with it, and no one has really given me a reason not to play lands that thin the deck and prevent dead draws. Oh well! That's just a personal choice.
Go for it. I mentioned a page or two back that I've never got my Figure to it's final stage (8/8 flying first-striker). I may cut my 2 so I can run 4 Student of Warfare or, as you mentioned, Kami. The Student is better than Destiny because you can freely throw counters whenever you have spare mana, whereas Figure requires you to leave open 5 mana for it's best form. It's never worked out for me.
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[Team Revolution]
For black heavy builds, Sorin Markov puts them back down to 20 for you, so thats a real option. Blue Sun's Zenith can also force a lot of card draw.
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[Team Revolution]
Pull from Eternity
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[Team Revolution]
Any tech cards in the sideboard against that?
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[Team Revolution]
Never said i thought of it. In fact, I credited someone else on MWSplay for the idea.
You may very well have a better list than me, I do think yours is quite good. As far as manners, you were 5 minutes late in the round, and were declared a game loss by the TC. I should have called that on you and decided to be nice. As to who was "Bad-mannered", a game loss is a bit bigger than a warning due to a mis-click.
And your "easy crush" of me was due mainly to the runed halo that you drew without my drawing a Hide... and the "Easy crush" in the one game lasted 45 minutes, and you didnt actually win the game.
My main question to you... How do you ever plan on actually winning matches (not effectively winning, like you did with me) in time with that list? Sure, you may have a better lockdown and matchup against most decks... If you had 2 hours for match. Winning due to misveil plains and making them deck is not a viable strategy.
I guess going 1-0 every match is an option, but still. (perhaps this is simply from the perspective of the 1 game we had though.)
Again- I'll hand it to you that you're list beats the mirror, and wins the long game better, but how do you handle combo? Just rely on Runed halo and hope you choose the right card (Ad nauseum has 2-3 kill sources... so does storm, and splinter twin.)?
I'll definitely test your list, though. Looks super solid.
EDIT: Yep- teaching MU is quite easy.
Being able to put 2 Ascendant (along with something else) straight into play is easier than shuffling it back into the deck, fetching it into your hand, and then hard casting it.
1 card, 3 mana > 3 cards, 7 mana.
I do see the point of having a good turn 2 beater though.
Overall, my deck is currently 15-4 (I use the original Proc build, my list is posted on page 2 or 3). It's going great. However, for the sake of personally knowing which one is better, I will try the Martyr-n'-Seek build.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Ad Naus/Angel's Grace is your worst G1 matchup, Grapeshot/Warrens storm is fairly winnable though due to Martyr making it harder for them to combo and Runed Halo naming grapeshot.
The SB includes a **** load of cards that are exclusively for combo matchups. Generally speaking, g2/3 aren't terrible and you can just beat them down with whatever random dorks you draw while making sure to cast the enchantments/dudes that lock em down.
As for 'finishing games' you have to note we were playing the Martyr mirror match, the only matchup where Ive ever gone to time in my entire life. In nearly a thousands DCI sanctioned matches I have 1 draw from 2 years ago in the Martyr mirror in a PTQ. I am a fast player, I make choices quickly and encourage my opponents to play quickly as well. Any other deck falls much faster to the lockdown and I can generally just get back some rangers/drifters and beat them down from 17 or whatever they are at. Additionally, I've been experimenting with a Nephila Drownyard to help speed up the mirror, but really I've come to the conclusion that it is probably not needed and I should just recognize its impossible to die in the mirror and just take 5 second long turns.
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[Team Revolution]
He might behave differently as a 3- to 4-of, though.
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[Team Revolution]
As much as I like the thought of Figure of Destiny in the deck, he just hasn't worked out yet. I may:
-2 Figure of Destiny
+2 Student of Warfare (total of 4 MD)
Anyone else run into this trouble?
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
The problem with all these decklists I see here is that you are playing a white weenie deck with random martyr of sands thrown in. This is completely counter-intuitive. If you want to attrition people out with Martyr - build an attrition deck, if you want to attack with white weenies - Build a white weenie deck.
Its really that simple. Playing 2 Emerias and 2 Procs but don't play 1 mana 1/1s, playing honor of the pure and spectral procession and windbrisk heights. Gaining life is not conducive to killing your opponent, and attacking your opponent with students and figures is not conducive to making Martyr of Sands matter.
So pick a game plan and stick with it, plan to attack or plan to abuse martyr. Being 50/50 will just make for more bad matchups and awkward draws.
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[Team Revolution]
This.
Honor of the Pure seems so random and bad when I usually end up winning the game with 1-3 creatures on the field. I really don't think +1/+1 changes the game for 2 creatures. I mean, I guess it's better with Spectral Procession, but it's not worth the splash.
If you want a Mono-White Weenie deck that's been doing well (4-0 and 3-1) that uses all those cards (Windbrisk Heights, Honor of the Pure, and Spectral Procession) try these recent token builds. This deck went 4-0
(I'm not going to post the list here because I want to stay on topic)
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/3193343
I'm totally up for some decent criticism and construction on the deck, but those cards clearly go in a different direction for the deck. It doesn't mesh well. If you really want tokens (S. Procession), well... we're playing Elspeth, Knight-Errant for a reason, right?
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
4x Martyr of Sands
4x Ranger of Eos
4x Serra Ascendant
4x Squadron Hawk
2x Student of Warfare
1x Weathered Wayfarer
3x Ghostly Prison
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Proclamation of Rebirth
3x Wrath of God
2x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4x Flagstones of Trokair
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Mistveil Plains
12x Plains
3x Kataki, War's Wage
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Nevermore
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Rule of Law
1x Wrath of God
The card I am most unimpressed with is Figure of Destiny. I was thinking of maybe replacing both with 2x Kami of False Hope
haves/wants. looking for modern splinter twin
Looks fantastic, except one thing:
Sideboard
-3 Kataki, War's Wage
+3 Stony Silence
Kataki is a great card, but has a weak immune system: dies to board sweeps, and can be targeted by practically anything (Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, Doom Blade, everything). Stony is great because enchantment-hate isn't found in every deck, and it shut down Affinity badly. It's just as a good of a card.
Otherwise, I think the deck looks ace. I personally run 4 Arid Mesa. I haven't had a problem with it, and no one has really given me a reason not to play lands that thin the deck and prevent dead draws. Oh well! That's just a personal choice.
Go for it. I mentioned a page or two back that I've never got my Figure to it's final stage (8/8 flying first-striker). I may cut my 2 so I can run 4 Student of Warfare or, as you mentioned, Kami. The Student is better than Destiny because you can freely throw counters whenever you have spare mana, whereas Figure requires you to leave open 5 mana for it's best form. It's never worked out for me.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.