Little Teferi is really bad. Fundamentally changes the game for 3 mana, is absolutely obnoxious design, and even renders creatures without ETB/Haste effects in STANDARD to be useless.
Super bad, I threw him into my Arena decks day one, and just felt gross over what it does to the format and game.
Little Teferi is a Prison card, in my opinion. @idSurge, I think that's why you get that bad feel when you play him. He's just a Prison card that masquerades as a Control piece.
Control tends to continually need more resources to keep it's opponent at bay, Prison plays a few things and generally renders a deck useless. Teferi, does get you more resources, but the single card draw and bounce is peanuts compared to what he does with his passive; that's one card rendering many irrelevant.
Is it a perfect analogy? Nope. I'm not going to even pretend it is, but it's pretty close to how I view Teferi.
To me it looks like a decent to mediocre card against most non-Blue opponents, that happens to hate on certain archetypes while not being utterly dead against the field. It also enables several interesting game-in-the-game, like stopping Cascade spells, making Spell Queller a better card and giving an opportunity to the owner to Combo off in his turn. Perfectly balanced, though.
To me it looks like a decent to mediocre card against most non-Blue opponents, that happens to hate on certain archetypes while not being utterly dead against the field. It also enables several interesting game-in-the-game, like stopping Cascade spells, making Spell Queller a better card and giving an opportunity to the owner to Combo off in his turn. Perfectly balanced, though.
Utterly dead against the field? I think not. I think its just a matter of time till it finds its place locking people out from simple interaction that is the difference between Magic the Gathering, and Hearthstone.
Turning off instant play's is really not what I want to see at 3cmc, and if Hogaak was not absorbing all the air in the twitter realm, I think its just a matter of time until this card is seen for the obnoxious thing that it is.
People hating on Big Teferi more so, are completely and utterly out to lunch on this.
Balanced? Sure. Its not a card 'feature' I ever want to see printed again, and it immediately turned me off of Standard when I was the one even playing it.
I said ‘while NOT being utterly dead against the field’.
IMHO is simply all about powerlevel in Modern. It went up, I don’t see why denying this.
Oh my bad, I'll leave my mistake as proof of my failure.
As to power level going up, thats undeniable. Has been since Dominaria, noticeably, and huge jumps lately. I dont question if we have not seen a power jump. I question if T3feri is good design, and honestly from a perspective of 'what makes Magic the game it is compared to other CCGs' I think he's absolute dog ***** from a design perspective.
Power level? Sure
Balance? Sure
Design? Bad for the health of the game.
Speaking as a guy who mains 4 blood moons, I'm not a fan of more prison cards in the format.
and i gotta agree with Arkmer, T3feri is a prison card first.
Compared to blood moon though, t3feri isn't so bad, i'm more concerned that this was a card they were willing to print in standard, and i'm worried we might see something truly problematic just around the bend.
4+1 loyalty is a bit much though tbh.
Isn't it time for the obligatory SFM unban hype train?
I have long since lost any confidence in WOTC doing anything remotely competent with regards to the banned list. At least while they continue to break graveyard decks set after set after set.
She should absolutely be unbanned, along with Twin. But I don't think either of those will ever see the light of day, because of the aforementioned incompetence about modern that WOTC holds.
Twin has a high degree of consistency and was topping multiple gp's. You can't really go under it because it would stall you out with bolts, remands, and cryptic commands. Going over it was hard because it would just combo out. I miss it though because it promoted a heavy midrange environment. I want it unbanned but you can't really say wotc is exactly incompetent. You have to be willng to admit the deck was at least strong.
Some pros who play no ban list modern say birthing pod feels very underwhelming, maybe that could be unbanned.
Honestly the way the format is right now, Dread Return could be unbanned. Dread Return does nothing more for graveyard decks that Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis and Altar of Dementia don't already do. This is saying something, as I don't really think that Dread Return should be unbanned. It just shows the silliness of WotC in that Stoneforge Mystic, Green Sun's Zenith, and Preordain are banned, (Finale of Devastation and Scour the Possibilities putting a nail in the final 2), but graveyard shenanigans like the current meta are allowed. It's really interesting.
P.S. - If Twin was legal nowadays, I'm certain they would run main board Surgical Extractions and/or Ravenous Traps along with Simian Spirit Guide. It's really the only way to compete currently.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Bolt and Remand ain't what they used to be, and Turn 4 is an eternity, if you even have it and jam it totally unprotected.
Completely separately, Wizards has demonstrated multiple times that they have absolutely no basic understanding of the Modern format. Sometimes to the point of utter embarrassment.
Did you happen to see the "Hogaak vs Banned List video series from SCG? It's long, but fairly enlightening, and lots of interesting commentary.
Isn't it time for the obligatory SFM unban hype train?
Not with UW being a deck. It's not happening.
Is Stoneforge Mystic even particularly good in UW Control? It seems to lack general synergy with the deck (not to mention it's an easy target for all the removal spells that are otherwise mediocre against UW Control). Stoneforge Mystic is a midrange card, not a control card.
Granted, perhaps UW could adapt itself into a midrange deck, but that's a different deck than the one that's currently doing well.
I feel as resigned as the last few posts. There are unbans that could or should happen but we won't get them this announcement and may never.
On the other hand I am encouraged by MH1. The strong new hogaak combo is my kind of deck, and several decks got some new peices. People in my area bought lots of it so hopefully they will make more sets like this. We should have gotten counterspell though.
On the other hand I am encouraged by MH1. The strong new hogaak combo is my kind of deck, and several decks got some new peices. People in my area bought lots of it so hopefully they will make more sets like this. We should have gotten counterspell though.
I don't know how attached I would get to the Hogaak deck. If there is any justice in the world, that horrid monstrosity will be killed off in the next B&R. It is stupidly fast, powerful, resilient, and hard to hate out.
I'll check out the video in a minute. I was impressed by Hogaak because the mill effects let it beat ensnaring bridge type of effects.
In paper tournaments, I still find arclight phoenix decks to be more of a problem but I've also gotten lucky drawing relic of progenitus against dredge decks. One thing I've noticed about dredge is that anger of the gods has lost a lot of value as they can just chip down your life total with creeping chills and conflagarate.
Also, I've watched some unban videos on youtube where they pit twin against current day decks and twin still has legs. It was especially good against humans, where cryptic command could tap attackers and stall until they top decked the combo.
Ross Merriam makes a good argument for never unbanning stoneforge mystic. Stoneforge isn't exactly strong but also doesn't warp the way a deck is constructed. "The opportunity cost to run twin or stoneforge packages is almost zero." I personally feel that stoneforge would make tempo decks too strong.
I think stoneforge is cool, and don't mind if fair decks get access to an "unfair" package.
So anyway is hogaak eating a ban in the future? Does looting or gravecrawler get banned?
I think stoneforge is cool, and don't mind if fair decks get access to an "unfair" package.
So anyway is hogaak eating a ban in the future? Does looting or gravecrawler get banned?
Paying 4 mana over 2 turns, using a creature without any form of protection, for the payoff of a 4/4 creature with Vigilance and Lifelink that is susceptible to Path, Push, and virtually any removal that isn't Lightning Bolt, is not in any way unfair. You're saving 1 mana and getting Instant speed on an Artifact that does not win you the game instantly. A good rate? Yes. But it is painfully fair, especially when top decks have multiple 3/2 Hasty fliers recurring by as early as T2, or can literally win the game by milling you out on T3.
The testing of Bridgevine vs Twin was really bad. Should have updated the Twin list. No way it would not play 8 combo creatures in the current metagame.
as for SFM, had given up long ago that it will be unbanned. Perhaps somewhere in the distant future, as a last attempt at a cash grab before WoTC finally goes under..
Little Teferi is really bad. Fundamentally changes the game for 3 mana, is absolutely obnoxious design, and even renders creatures without ETB/Haste effects in STANDARD to be useless.
Super bad, I threw him into my Arena decks day one, and just felt gross over what it does to the format and game.
Spirits
Control tends to continually need more resources to keep it's opponent at bay, Prison plays a few things and generally renders a deck useless. Teferi, does get you more resources, but the single card draw and bounce is peanuts compared to what he does with his passive; that's one card rendering many irrelevant.
Is it a perfect analogy? Nope. I'm not going to even pretend it is, but it's pretty close to how I view Teferi.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Utterly dead against the field? I think not. I think its just a matter of time till it finds its place locking people out from simple interaction that is the difference between Magic the Gathering, and Hearthstone.
Turning off instant play's is really not what I want to see at 3cmc, and if Hogaak was not absorbing all the air in the twitter realm, I think its just a matter of time until this card is seen for the obnoxious thing that it is.
People hating on Big Teferi more so, are completely and utterly out to lunch on this.
Balanced? Sure. Its not a card 'feature' I ever want to see printed again, and it immediately turned me off of Standard when I was the one even playing it.
Spirits
I said ‘while NOT being utterly dead against the field’.
IMHO is simply all about powerlevel in Modern. It went up, I don’t see why denying this.
Oh my bad, I'll leave my mistake as proof of my failure.
As to power level going up, thats undeniable. Has been since Dominaria, noticeably, and huge jumps lately. I dont question if we have not seen a power jump. I question if T3feri is good design, and honestly from a perspective of 'what makes Magic the game it is compared to other CCGs' I think he's absolute dog ***** from a design perspective.
Power level? Sure
Balance? Sure
Design? Bad for the health of the game.
Spirits
and i gotta agree with Arkmer, T3feri is a prison card first.
Compared to blood moon though, t3feri isn't so bad, i'm more concerned that this was a card they were willing to print in standard, and i'm worried we might see something truly problematic just around the bend.
4+1 loyalty is a bit much though tbh.
Not with UW being a deck. It's not happening.
Spirits
I have long since lost any confidence in WOTC doing anything remotely competent with regards to the banned list. At least while they continue to break graveyard decks set after set after set.
She should absolutely be unbanned, along with Twin. But I don't think either of those will ever see the light of day, because of the aforementioned incompetence about modern that WOTC holds.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Some pros who play no ban list modern say birthing pod feels very underwhelming, maybe that could be unbanned.
P.S. - If Twin was legal nowadays, I'm certain they would run main board Surgical Extractions and/or Ravenous Traps along with Simian Spirit Guide. It's really the only way to compete currently.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Completely separately, Wizards has demonstrated multiple times that they have absolutely no basic understanding of the Modern format. Sometimes to the point of utter embarrassment.
Did you happen to see the "Hogaak vs Banned List video series from SCG? It's long, but fairly enlightening, and lots of interesting commentary.
Check out this video "VS Live! | Hogaak VS The Modern Banlist | Modern" http://www.twitch.tv/scgtour/v/441759362?sr=a&t=0s
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Granted, perhaps UW could adapt itself into a midrange deck, but that's a different deck than the one that's currently doing well.
This was even mentioned by I believe Forsythe on Twitter.
I'm not even worried about Twin, it won't come off based on player perception alone.
SFM is what proves Wizards has no clue about what they are doing.
Spirits
On the other hand I am encouraged by MH1. The strong new hogaak combo is my kind of deck, and several decks got some new peices. People in my area bought lots of it so hopefully they will make more sets like this. We should have gotten counterspell though.
I don't know how attached I would get to the Hogaak deck. If there is any justice in the world, that horrid monstrosity will be killed off in the next B&R. It is stupidly fast, powerful, resilient, and hard to hate out.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
In paper tournaments, I still find arclight phoenix decks to be more of a problem but I've also gotten lucky drawing relic of progenitus against dredge decks. One thing I've noticed about dredge is that anger of the gods has lost a lot of value as they can just chip down your life total with creeping chills and conflagarate.
Saying the Twin Package is nothing is disingenuous of him however.
Find me the current Tier 1 deck that is not Blue Moon, that has 8-10 flex slots to just drop in the combo casually.
Spirits
So anyway is hogaak eating a ban in the future? Does looting or gravecrawler get banned?
Paying 4 mana over 2 turns, using a creature without any form of protection, for the payoff of a 4/4 creature with Vigilance and Lifelink that is susceptible to Path, Push, and virtually any removal that isn't Lightning Bolt, is not in any way unfair. You're saving 1 mana and getting Instant speed on an Artifact that does not win you the game instantly. A good rate? Yes. But it is painfully fair, especially when top decks have multiple 3/2 Hasty fliers recurring by as early as T2, or can literally win the game by milling you out on T3.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread