I was discussing this event with a couple of friends and for some reason I ended up defending the deck. I surely believe it's way too early for a ban but it's a deck that is doing really obnoxious things. It attacks through multiple angles and it's required a considerate amount of hate/interaction to win.
Regardless, the discussion was that the deck that was in number one on the Challenge was a UW Control with 4 snapcasters and 2 surgicals mainboard. One of my friends reply to that was that if we are mainboarding hate it means that the format is busted. That made me wonder...
Is the format broken? If we look at legacy... Force of Will is the safety valve of the format, a free spell that interacts with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format. In legacy the stack is where the degenerate decks win from... In modern our stack is the graveyard. Can't we accept that maybe we should just be playing Surgicals main?
If we really think about it Surgical is 100% analogue to Force of Will in legacy. It's card disadvantage, free, instant speed, costs life, deals with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format while being somewhat mediocre to bad in the fair match ups. It's also a card that we sideboard out in a lot of matches.
Probably I'll get some bash over this but it's a different point of view. To be honest it eases my mind looking at things this way. My only grief is that surgicals are super expensive (same as force of will) and playing 4 is a big hit in the budget.
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
surgicals main has been an on and off debate in many threads. I used to have two in the main of my Bgx, because wanted to catch an arclight phoenix before it can be revived again. Currently though, I prefer to have two nihil spellbombs main, because of the cantrip and it works almost as good as the surgicals. And my UW has three maindeck remorseful cleric, because loot decks over here are strong. Simply have to accept that modern is a graveyard format.
Is the format broken? If we look at legacy... Force of Will is the safety valve of the format, a free spell that interacts with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format. In legacy the stack is where the degenerate decks win from... In modern our stack is the graveyard. Can't we accept that maybe we should just be playing Surgicals main?
If we really think about it Surgical is 100% analogue to Force of Will in legacy. It's card disadvantage, free, instant speed, costs life, deals with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format while being somewhat mediocre to bad in the fair match ups. It's also a card that we sideboard out in a lot of matches.
Probably I'll get some bash over this but it's a different point of view. To be honest it eases my mind looking at things this way. My only grief is that surgicals are super expensive (same as force of will) and playing 4 is a big hit in the budget.
I think you are exactly right. 'Busted' is just down to ones definition. Just like 'Fair' 'Unfair' 'Degenerate' 'Linear'.
Is anything that is NOT Eldrazi Winter, NOT 'busted'? Maybe?
There are decks that range from UW Control, all the way to this new Bridge deck in terms of the scale from Fair, to Unfair, Control to Combo, and they are all using the Graveyard.
Busted, well that just comes down to ones interpretation, but there has not been a time in the last 8 months you can skip on GY hate, even MAIN DECK, and expect to do well at a large event.
Re: Challenge results
As I wrote in the Reddit post, the Challenge results are both laughably bad (32% Hogaak Vine = lulz) and relatively isolated. Did Hogaak have an outrageous debut at this single Challenge? Absolutely, and it would be misleading to deny that. But it's just as misleading to oversell the results of a single Challenge. For one, it's a single datapoint on the debut weekend of a deck. There are so many factors that both artificially increase (e.g. players don't know how to play against it, SB decisions, hype, etc.) and decrease (card availability, untuned decks, pilots don't know tricks with the deck, etc.) prevalence in such a single datapoint. Given these limitations, it's hard to draw a meaningful conclusion. Second, it's not even a major paper event. It's "just" an MTGO Challenge, which we have routinely (and rightfully) questioned as representative of the metagame on any given weekend. Significant paper results or repeat online results are needed to really figure out where the deck stands in the metagame.
Re: ban decisions
Wizards has issued one emergency ban in over a decade (Felidar), which was more of an oversight acknowledgement than a response to a pattern of troubling results. There is no way we see emergency ban action based on a single Challenge. Wizards has repeatedly shown, despite the blaring ban mania in online communities, that they will wait for sustained results before acting on a ban.
I encourage community members to stick to the proven method of ban analysis: waiting for more data and taking a long, conservative view of the format. Recognize the metagame's ability to adapt and acknowledge that most decks have more weaknesses than we think. This method has produced consistent predictions of changes and no changes for years now. Even if Hogaak Vine is ultimately bannable, that does not mean we throw out the proven, conservative method and revert to a ban mania mindframe. If you throw enough darts at a board, eventually you'll get a bullseye even if your technique is horrible. That doesn't mean we look at the bullseye and say "NAILED IT" with all of our bad technique throws. We stick with the technique that works.
There is one excepction, which is when the deck is SO obviously broken that no matter the adjustment of the meta, the meta stays broken.
Because the meta will adjusto to a minimum of 4 SB slots dedicated to this deck, up to 8. Is this healthy? Is this what wizards wants from this format? A SB lotto format?
I just lost miserably 0-2 after putting a t2 cage in the BF. I lost on t3. Yes, the **** was lucky to draw 1 of his 2 claims, but I was lucky too to have drawn it.
Let's play the lotto, guys! You lose g1 and then g2 and g3 take your lotto chances!
I was discussing this event with a couple of friends and for some reason I ended up defending the deck. I surely believe it's way too early for a ban but it's a deck that is doing really obnoxious things. It attacks through multiple angles and it's required a considerate amount of hate/interaction to win.
Regardless, the discussion was that the deck that was in number one on the Challenge was a UW Control with 4 snapcasters and 2 surgicals mainboard. One of my friends reply to that was that if we are mainboarding hate it means that the format is busted. That made me wonder...
Is the format broken? If we look at legacy... Force of Will is the safety valve of the format, a free spell that interacts with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format. In legacy the stack is where the degenerate decks win from... In modern our stack is the graveyard. Can't we accept that maybe we should just be playing Surgicals main?
If we really think about it Surgical is 100% analogue to Force of Will in legacy. It's card disadvantage, free, instant speed, costs life, deals with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format while being somewhat mediocre to bad in the fair match ups. It's also a card that we sideboard out in a lot of matches.
Probably I'll get some bash over this but it's a different point of view. To be honest it eases my mind looking at things this way. My only grief is that surgicals are super expensive (same as force of will) and playing 4 is a big hit in the budget.
This is where my mind has been going lately.
People often tout that "Surgicals main is a symptom of an unhealthy format" but I've really been wondering if that's even a reasonable statement. We accept creature "hate" as fine and normal, because most decks feature a heavy creature element. Occasionally, your Path to Exile and Fatal Push cards will be dead, but no one laments about that. We've sort of come to accept that creature removal is just a part of the format. Perhaps we should be just as open to grave hate being "just a part of the format." Maybe that's just where the format needs to go.
There is one excepction, which is when the deck is SO obviously broken that no matter the adjustment of the meta, the meta stays broken.
Because the meta will adjusto to a minimum of 4 SB slots dedicated to this deck, up to 8. Is this healthy? Is this what wizards wants from this format? A SB lotto format?
No, your mistake is playing them in the side. Main Deck yard hate is pretty much a requirement for any serious deck.
At one point you had to have the 'Twin Check' and the 'Jund Check'. Well now its the 'Graveyard Check'.
This page is beautiful.
While i don't agree that modern is a gy format, it's refreshing to see most discussing its state as inseperable from creative restrictions for deckbuilding, which is not "unfair," "unhealthy" or any other nonsense.
Not trying to play the devil's advocate but if we actually think about it, like idSurge said, most if not all of the decks use the graveyard in some way. Having hate for it, is it that "hateful"? Graveyard "hate" is "less" dead than creature removal since every player uses the graveyard because it's a part of the game and not all of the decks have creatures, like LeoTzu said.
Maybe this decks only looks this dumb because nobody wants to play MB GY hate and feels that they shouldn't but probably is the right way to go. As a UW Control Player it feels super bad when I'm paired against a mirror match and all I drew was Paths and Wipes and they have the walkers and the counters. Adding more potential blanks feels strange but I'm positive that probably this is the way forward. Modern has a lot going on for it that we all enjoy and love. It's the reason why I play it over Standard. It would be somewhat hypocritical if I said that I like Modern because there are a lot of weird and cool decks that play from strange angles but I don't want them to be any good because I'd have to play actual interaction for them.
Playing more with the Legacy analogy, if we actually think about it, Legacy is the "normal people" format where the real busted stuff can happen. Larger card pool meaning more dumb stuff... But playing it feels really good. At least I always enjoyed it a lot. Most of that was due to FoW and its role. If Surgical or GY Hate does this in Modern, the degenerate decks will have to settle down on the dumbness and be more down to earth. It will make for more interesting games because you're not just free to do your goldfish because there's the real risk of the losing the game on the spot if you overextend into the GY hate. This all would result in the format slowing down a lot and making for more compelling gameplay.
There is one excepction, which is when the deck is SO obviously broken that no matter the adjustment of the meta, the meta stays broken.
Because the meta will adjusto to a minimum of 4 SB slots dedicated to this deck, up to 8. Is this healthy? Is this what wizards wants from this format? A SB lotto format?
No, your mistake is playing them in the side. Main Deck yard hate is pretty much a requirement for any serious deck.
At one point you had to have the 'Twin Check' and the 'Jund Check'. Well now its the 'Graveyard Check'.
I remember years ago when Twin was legal, to have two maindeck spellskite and two aether spellbomb in my UW. The spellskites worked well against Infect which was also a deck to beat at that time, as git probe was still not banned. After the Twin banning, those four slots became something else.. moving on.
Back to the present. I want to face this Hogaak deck a few times before the possible banning. Maybe someone in our lgs will build it. I find the name of the card funny, Hogaak feels like a name of a monster tree from a crappy horror movie.
Graveyard hate is just the new discard because so many decks use it so effectively. That means removal is often just a bunch of Unsummons with differing costs. Exile is still the only actual removal.
Then there are decks that ignore this completely. Removal is removal against Humans, for example.
Just doesn't line up well. If graveyard hate was relevant against everyone- or even the vast majority, people wouldn't be so shy to mainboard it. That's why we start seeing 1-2 main when a deck creeps into ridiculous territory. I think we'll see some of that with Hogaak for awhile until it calms down, but I do think it's sort of funny that we have barely a weekend gone by of it's legality and it's being called for banning. If it continues this way? Ya, I'll jump on board, but not after a weekend.
this is another debate, but i, for one, find banning anything extremely short-sighted, ugly and unecessary. there's not a SINGLE card in the modern banlist that couldn't be restricted (which, as i said before many times, is much more elegant). chrome mox wouldn't break anything as a one of, nor would any other of these cards. meanwhile, they would surely improve strategies and add an interesting deckbuilding option to the cardpool.
banning should only come for inevitable stuff, but hardly anything becomes inevitable as a one of without ridiculously efficient tutors and done under modern's overall design constraints.
I don't find the idea of restricting cards in Modern elegant at all. It just adds to the variance and lopsided nature by allowing some decks to have more busted than average hands. What purpose does that serve in the format? For example, if we restricted Allosaurus Rider, does it help the format to have a deck that sometimes can have a turn 1 kill "oops I win" mode, but has to grind out its wins some other way when it doesn't have the broken opener? I just want to know HOW it's better for the format?
I think it's fine in Vintage, but the goals of Vintage are different than those of Modern.
this is another debate, but i, for one, find banning anything extremely short-sighted, ugly and unecessary. there's not a SINGLE card in the modern banlist that couldn't be restricted (which, as i said before many times, is much more elegant). chrome mox wouldn't break anything as a one of, nor would any other of these cards. meanwhile, they would surely improve strategies and add an interesting deckbuilding option to the cardpool.
banning should only come for inevitable stuff, but hardly anything becomes inevitable as a one of without ridiculously efficient tutors and done under modern's overall design constraints.
Here we have a hogaak or whatever the new guy is called player. Nice one mate. Enjoy your 75% winrate while it lasts.
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this is another debate, but i, for one, find banning anything extremely short-sighted, ugly and unecessary. there's not a SINGLE card in the modern banlist that couldn't be restricted (which, as i said before many times, is much more elegant). chrome mox wouldn't break anything as a one of, nor would any other of these cards. meanwhile, they would surely improve strategies and add an interesting deckbuilding option to the cardpool.
banning should only come for inevitable stuff, but hardly anything becomes inevitable as a one of without ridiculously efficient tutors and done under modern's overall design constraints.
Here we have a hogaak or whatever the new guy is called player. Nice one mate. Enjoy your 75% winrate while it lasts.
not to burst ur bubble, but no, i don't play it or wish to as i'm not particularly fond of the playstyle/play patterns (lantern lover here, u can deduce what i tend to like from that). but hogaark itself is one of the cards i liked the most on MH.
as for the banned vs. restricted cards, anyone wishing to debate the subject can shoot me a pm, as to not derail the thread.
I might be on the ban mania train at this point. I'm just so tired of watching things be the way they are. This isn't good Magic. And by "good Magic" I mean it actually feels like Magic. For example, Gitaxian Probe is a card I like having banned because it's not good Magic. It's borderline free for perfect information and it make you play 56 card decks. This isn't "good Magic."
In the same vein, I'm having a harder and harder time enjoying Modern. I dislike how Modern is defined by degeneracy (however you choose to interpret the word, it's how Modern has felt to me for a long time). I'm tired of there being these insane cards that enable so much absurd things. I'm tired of how UW is now my only control option for the most part. I'm tired of the gymnastics of testing new decks in an effort to enjoy this format again. When I first started playing the format the deck diversity was great and there were options, oh so many options. Now I feel like I have to be playing a deck I dislike playing in order to do well. I don't want to play Dredge, Phoenix, Humans, Tron, maybe Amulet. I don't want to feel forced into playing UW if I want to play Control. Maybe I just dislike how this is another phase in Modern's history, and I need to suck it up and just keep going. But at this point, I can even enjoy playing the format anymore. I don't feel like the format is diverse anymore. I feel like my options in order to compete keep getting smaller.
Maybe I'm not a fan of the Graveyard Check people were talking about earlier. I'm I being unfair to the format here? I just can't get behind the format and need something to reinvigorate my interest once more.
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
I might be on the ban mania train at this point. I'm just so tired of watching things be the way they are. This isn't good Magic. And by "good Magic" I mean it actually feels like Magic. For example, Gitaxian Probe is a card I like having banned because it's not good Magic. It's borderline free for perfect information and it make you play 56 card decks. This isn't "good Magic."
Speaking from my own definition of ban mania, I want to be clear that not all calls for bans are ban mania. As a term, "ban mania" specifically refers to framing an issue that is fundamentally about the metagame, format, cards, decks, strategy, etc. as a ban policy issue, doing so with minimal or no evidence, and/or doing so out of dialogue with known Wizards ban criteria/decisions. This encompasses most of the ban calls we have seen aimed at decks since 2017: GDS, E-Tron, CoCo, Storm, Humans, Gx Tron, UWx, Dredge, Bridgevine, etc. all come to mind. Even KCI ban talk was initially ban mania because it lacked evidence for many months. But once there was significant evidence against KCI, in the form of disproportionate T8 performance and MWP stats, the initial ban mania became just a ban argument. Ban arguments are okay. Ban arguments can, in fact, be positive if driven by reasonable arguments and framed as cases or conversations. As long as you're engaged in that dialogue, it can be healthy and interesting to discuss bans.
In the same vein, I'm having a harder and harder time enjoying Modern. I dislike how Modern is defined by degeneracy (however you choose to interpret the word, it's how Modern has felt to me for a long time). I'm tired of there being these insane cards that enable so much absurd things. I'm tired of how UW is now my only control option for the most part. I'm tired of the gymnastics of testing new decks in an effort to enjoy this format again. When I first started playing the format the deck diversity was great and there were options, oh so many options. Now I feel like I have to be playing a deck I dislike playing in order to do well. I don't want to play Dredge, Phoenix, Humans, Tron, maybe Amulet. I don't want to feel forced into playing UW if I want to play Control. Maybe I just dislike how this is another phase in Modern's history, and I need to suck it up and just keep going. But at this point, I can even enjoy playing the format anymore. I don't feel like the format is diverse anymore. I feel like my options in order to compete keep getting smaller.
Maybe I'm not a fan of the Graveyard Check people were talking about earlier. I'm I being unfair to the format here? I just can't get behind the format and need something to reinvigorate my interest once more.
I don't know your local scene or what venue you play in, but I always encourage players to think in terms of what they are likely to face from week to week, not what they are likely to face in a hypothetical major paper tournament. It's easy to get sucked into believing that only the Tier 1 decks of any given time are viable, and we tend to define such decks as those which T8 a GP or SCG Open (maybe; some people are STILL skpetical of these events). For one, it's always surprising just how many decks are in T8 contention. Second, very few of us actually play in these kinds of 15 round events. We are more likely to play in 8-rounders or smaller. I find if players pick for those events in known metagames, they have more success and enjoyment.
In my many years of experience playing this game, I know how to recognize a deck (I failed at this a couple of times along the way too, but I've learnt from my mistakes... I once asked for a GDS nerf, that was a mistake) that is going to get nerfed (banned is a bad word here for some folks, lo let's say NERF, like in most online games).
Dredge is a deck that is almost past the line, it aaaaalmost needs a nerf, but since people started maindecking graveyard hate, lots of gy hate on the SB too, etc, etc, dredge has been kept at bay by the metagame, without TOO MUCH warping.
But oh boy this new bridge deck, this is just a way different level. This is ban hammmer level (ops sorry for using the B word).
The only deck I think can compete against this new deck is humans thanks to meddling mage naming hogaak.
Meddling Mage naming Allosaurus Rider is good against Neoform too, but I guess that deck's been deemed bad. I don't mind. I am 11-1 at this point with NeoBrand.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Bridge always seemed to me like a super broken card that is only waiting paciently for the right card to break it again. It was broken in the original dredge but they banned dread return instead. Their mistake was not banning both of them. Now, we can't play Modern for 4 weeks because of that.
Regardless, the discussion was that the deck that was in number one on the Challenge was a UW Control with 4 snapcasters and 2 surgicals mainboard. One of my friends reply to that was that if we are mainboarding hate it means that the format is busted. That made me wonder...
Is the format broken? If we look at legacy... Force of Will is the safety valve of the format, a free spell that interacts with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format. In legacy the stack is where the degenerate decks win from... In modern our stack is the graveyard. Can't we accept that maybe we should just be playing Surgicals main?
If we really think about it Surgical is 100% analogue to Force of Will in legacy. It's card disadvantage, free, instant speed, costs life, deals with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format while being somewhat mediocre to bad in the fair match ups. It's also a card that we sideboard out in a lot of matches.
Probably I'll get some bash over this but it's a different point of view. To be honest it eases my mind looking at things this way. My only grief is that surgicals are super expensive (same as force of will) and playing 4 is a big hit in the budget.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I think you are exactly right. 'Busted' is just down to ones definition. Just like 'Fair' 'Unfair' 'Degenerate' 'Linear'.
Is anything that is NOT Eldrazi Winter, NOT 'busted'? Maybe?
I said it last page. Modern is a GY format.
Snaps
Dredge
Phoenix
KCI tomfoolery
Bridgevine weirdness
Faithless Looting
Versions of Mardu
Storm
There are decks that range from UW Control, all the way to this new Bridge deck in terms of the scale from Fair, to Unfair, Control to Combo, and they are all using the Graveyard.
Busted, well that just comes down to ones interpretation, but there has not been a time in the last 8 months you can skip on GY hate, even MAIN DECK, and expect to do well at a large event.
Spirits
There is one excepction, which is when the deck is SO obviously broken that no matter the adjustment of the meta, the meta stays broken.
Because the meta will adjusto to a minimum of 4 SB slots dedicated to this deck, up to 8. Is this healthy? Is this what wizards wants from this format? A SB lotto format?
I just lost miserably 0-2 after putting a t2 cage in the BF. I lost on t3. Yes, the **** was lucky to draw 1 of his 2 claims, but I was lucky too to have drawn it.
Let's play the lotto, guys! You lose g1 and then g2 and g3 take your lotto chances!
This is where my mind has been going lately.
People often tout that "Surgicals main is a symptom of an unhealthy format" but I've really been wondering if that's even a reasonable statement. We accept creature "hate" as fine and normal, because most decks feature a heavy creature element. Occasionally, your Path to Exile and Fatal Push cards will be dead, but no one laments about that. We've sort of come to accept that creature removal is just a part of the format. Perhaps we should be just as open to grave hate being "just a part of the format." Maybe that's just where the format needs to go.
No, your mistake is playing them in the side. Main Deck yard hate is pretty much a requirement for any serious deck.
At one point you had to have the 'Twin Check' and the 'Jund Check'. Well now its the 'Graveyard Check'.
Spirits
While i don't agree that modern is a gy format, it's refreshing to see most discussing its state as inseperable from creative restrictions for deckbuilding, which is not "unfair," "unhealthy" or any other nonsense.
cue "down here, salt is a way of life"
Maybe this decks only looks this dumb because nobody wants to play MB GY hate and feels that they shouldn't but probably is the right way to go. As a UW Control Player it feels super bad when I'm paired against a mirror match and all I drew was Paths and Wipes and they have the walkers and the counters. Adding more potential blanks feels strange but I'm positive that probably this is the way forward. Modern has a lot going on for it that we all enjoy and love. It's the reason why I play it over Standard. It would be somewhat hypocritical if I said that I like Modern because there are a lot of weird and cool decks that play from strange angles but I don't want them to be any good because I'd have to play actual interaction for them.
Playing more with the Legacy analogy, if we actually think about it, Legacy is the "normal people" format where the real busted stuff can happen. Larger card pool meaning more dumb stuff... But playing it feels really good. At least I always enjoyed it a lot. Most of that was due to FoW and its role. If Surgical or GY Hate does this in Modern, the degenerate decks will have to settle down on the dumbness and be more down to earth. It will make for more interesting games because you're not just free to do your goldfish because there's the real risk of the losing the game on the spot if you overextend into the GY hate. This all would result in the format slowing down a lot and making for more compelling gameplay.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I remember years ago when Twin was legal, to have two maindeck spellskite and two aether spellbomb in my UW. The spellskites worked well against Infect which was also a deck to beat at that time, as git probe was still not banned. After the Twin banning, those four slots became something else.. moving on.
Back to the present. I want to face this Hogaak deck a few times before the possible banning. Maybe someone in our lgs will build it. I find the name of the card funny, Hogaak feels like a name of a monster tree from a crappy horror movie.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Then there are decks that ignore this completely. Removal is removal against Humans, for example.
Just doesn't line up well. If graveyard hate was relevant against everyone- or even the vast majority, people wouldn't be so shy to mainboard it. That's why we start seeing 1-2 main when a deck creeps into ridiculous territory. I think we'll see some of that with Hogaak for awhile until it calms down, but I do think it's sort of funny that we have barely a weekend gone by of it's legality and it's being called for banning. If it continues this way? Ya, I'll jump on board, but not after a weekend.
"Reveal a Dragon"
banning should only come for inevitable stuff, but hardly anything becomes inevitable as a one of without ridiculously efficient tutors and done under modern's overall design constraints.
I think it's fine in Vintage, but the goals of Vintage are different than those of Modern.
Spirits
Here we have a hogaak or whatever the new guy is called player. Nice one mate. Enjoy your 75% winrate while it lasts.
not to burst ur bubble, but no, i don't play it or wish to as i'm not particularly fond of the playstyle/play patterns (lantern lover here, u can deduce what i tend to like from that). but hogaark itself is one of the cards i liked the most on MH.
as for the banned vs. restricted cards, anyone wishing to debate the subject can shoot me a pm, as to not derail the thread.
In the same vein, I'm having a harder and harder time enjoying Modern. I dislike how Modern is defined by degeneracy (however you choose to interpret the word, it's how Modern has felt to me for a long time). I'm tired of there being these insane cards that enable so much absurd things. I'm tired of how UW is now my only control option for the most part. I'm tired of the gymnastics of testing new decks in an effort to enjoy this format again. When I first started playing the format the deck diversity was great and there were options, oh so many options. Now I feel like I have to be playing a deck I dislike playing in order to do well. I don't want to play Dredge, Phoenix, Humans, Tron, maybe Amulet. I don't want to feel forced into playing UW if I want to play Control. Maybe I just dislike how this is another phase in Modern's history, and I need to suck it up and just keep going. But at this point, I can even enjoy playing the format anymore. I don't feel like the format is diverse anymore. I feel like my options in order to compete keep getting smaller.
Maybe I'm not a fan of the Graveyard Check people were talking about earlier. I'm I being unfair to the format here? I just can't get behind the format and need something to reinvigorate my interest once more.
Bad players everywhere it's damn incredible.
Speaking from my own definition of ban mania, I want to be clear that not all calls for bans are ban mania. As a term, "ban mania" specifically refers to framing an issue that is fundamentally about the metagame, format, cards, decks, strategy, etc. as a ban policy issue, doing so with minimal or no evidence, and/or doing so out of dialogue with known Wizards ban criteria/decisions. This encompasses most of the ban calls we have seen aimed at decks since 2017: GDS, E-Tron, CoCo, Storm, Humans, Gx Tron, UWx, Dredge, Bridgevine, etc. all come to mind. Even KCI ban talk was initially ban mania because it lacked evidence for many months. But once there was significant evidence against KCI, in the form of disproportionate T8 performance and MWP stats, the initial ban mania became just a ban argument. Ban arguments are okay. Ban arguments can, in fact, be positive if driven by reasonable arguments and framed as cases or conversations. As long as you're engaged in that dialogue, it can be healthy and interesting to discuss bans.
I don't know your local scene or what venue you play in, but I always encourage players to think in terms of what they are likely to face from week to week, not what they are likely to face in a hypothetical major paper tournament. It's easy to get sucked into believing that only the Tier 1 decks of any given time are viable, and we tend to define such decks as those which T8 a GP or SCG Open (maybe; some people are STILL skpetical of these events). For one, it's always surprising just how many decks are in T8 contention. Second, very few of us actually play in these kinds of 15 round events. We are more likely to play in 8-rounders or smaller. I find if players pick for those events in known metagames, they have more success and enjoyment.
Dredge is a deck that is almost past the line, it aaaaalmost needs a nerf, but since people started maindecking graveyard hate, lots of gy hate on the SB too, etc, etc, dredge has been kept at bay by the metagame, without TOO MUCH warping.
But oh boy this new bridge deck, this is just a way different level. This is ban hammmer level (ops sorry for using the B word).
The only deck I think can compete against this new deck is humans thanks to meddling mage naming hogaak.
Realistically it'll be Bridge though and if we keep seeing these Hoogark numbers I really hope they don't shy away from banning in July.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)still enjoying to use Mardu Pyro, even if the deck is not very competitive anymore.
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slightly off-topic
Also hoping there will be a similar "State of the Modern thread" in the new forum, so we could continue these discussions there.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread