I do think Wizards has been trying when it comes to land-hate. We got fairly recent additions like Alpine Moon, Field of Ruin, and Damping Sphere, which were all aimed at decks that leverage lands to win. I like where their head is when it comes to cards aimed at taking out lands and I'd rather see them continue going that route instead of letting Sinkhole loose into the format.
Hymn may be pushing it I'll accept that, but even with all those hate cards, of which Field is probably the best, they still dont do enough. Who is going to play Sinkhole? Jund, Rock, thats it. Shadow?
I would not lament a boost for those 2 (or 3) decks, and I play none of them.
Hymn is like playing the lottery with your opponent's hand. I really don't want to add more of that into the format, even if it mostly just powers up fair decks. That's just a personal opinion. I'm not really sure if the power level would be too much for the format.
I actually like having a wide range of land hate available. I'll admit that none of them are a complete slam dunk, which is what I think what most people are hoping for, but it does force players to make some interesting deckbuilding decisions when trying to interact with lands. I do understand the desire for Sinkhole though.
That's my point exactly. It's good but I'm not sure how many decks would use it due to its BB mana cost. It is also fairly high risk since its a bad top deck and does not answer a threat in play. Mtg goldfish showed only ONE deck in legacy even using it. Honestly, I like smallpox better anyway but I do think its about the right power level we need in modern.
What do you guys think of the new Hogaak Vine deck being a potential t3 Violator with a fast clock and self sustaining combo kill? it seems like every time a new degen deck comes out... faithless looting is the culprit and makes decks with unfun play patterns thats hard to interact with.
What do you guys think of the new Hogaak Vine deck being a potential t3 Violator with a fast clock and self sustaining combo kill? it seems like every time a new degen deck comes out... faithless looting is the culprit and makes decks with unfun play patterns thats hard to interact with.
There's not much left to say about GY based decks. Clearly they are fine, have been for 8+ months, otherwise Wizards would have done something about them.
What do you guys think of the new Hogaak Vine deck being a potential t3 Violator with a fast clock and self sustaining combo kill? it seems like every time a new degen deck comes out... faithless looting is the culprit and makes decks with unfun play patterns thats hard to interact with.
I have never heard of this deck before. Maybe, for once, we can wait until a deck starts getting real results before talking about format-wide implications of something that may very well be just a flash in the pan.
it uses hogaak brodge from below and altar of dementia to have a combo kill outside the combat step. Look at Kanister streaming the deck it seems pretty broken imo. Every single obnoxious deck that isnt Tron is centered on abusing faithless looting.
What do you guys think of the new Hogaak Vine deck being a potential t3 Violator with a fast clock and self sustaining combo kill? it seems like every time a new degen deck comes out... faithless looting is the culprit and makes decks with unfun play patterns thats hard to interact with.
I have never heard of this deck before. Maybe, for once, we can wait until a deck starts getting real results before talking about format-wide implications of something that may very well be just a flash in the pan.
it uses hogaak brodge from below and altar of dementia to have a combo kill outside the combat step. Look at Kanister streaming the deck it seems pretty broken imo. Every single obnoxious deck that isnt Tron is centered on abusing faithless looting.
I think looting is fine, personally. It's card disadvantage at face value. What makes the card busted is the amount of play space that cards have from the yard. Gravecrawler, bloodghast, Phoenix, and more are so far beyond fair rates when you can cheat them in or recur a million times it's not even funny.
It's like the spell payoff cards. Having UR be a spells matter color pair is fine, having payoffs like Phoenix is less fine because they can clock someone stupid fast. Even ascension seems inherently dangerous to me because it lets you double dip on EVERYTHING once it's online.
jori en, ruin diver is a fair ability in my eyes. Her stat line is weak and that keeps her from seeing play, but the ability is powerful recurring advantage. Even thing in the ice is okay - it's a powerful effect but one shot. Heck even young pyromancer is fine because it's easy to interact with. Graveyards just aren't that easy to deal with and so much value comes from the yard before the effective hate actually goes off in a bunch of games.
Format feels broken to me when I look at a card like scavenging ooze in elves and think it may be too slow. It's not, but it's not as strong as it once was.
Looting isn't the culprit. 3/2 fliers or giant dirt monsters crawling out of the yard t2 are.
Format feels broken to me when I look at a card like scavenging ooze in elves and think it may be too slow. It's not, but it's not as strong as it once was.
Looting isn't the culprit. 3/2 fliers or giant dirt monsters crawling out of the yard t2 are.
Yeah, but Sinkhole man, too strong.
At this point it should just be accepted that Wizards is more than fine with Modern being a very GY heavy format. I kept looking at Horizons and thinking 'yep, GY synergy again' over and over. We have a TON of GY hate already in the format, so at this point it seems like you just play to that angle, or you are disadvantaging yourself.
it uses hogaak brodge from below and altar of dementia to have a combo kill outside the combat step. Look at Kanister streaming the deck it seems pretty broken imo. Every single obnoxious deck that isnt Tron is centered on abusing faithless looting.
I've seen these kinds of comments and assessments for literal years. A recent comparison was last summer when numerous authors, players, and posters in the older version of this thread (including players who rarely ever raise ban alarm) brought up the same fears about Bridgevine. Like basically every episode of ban fear and ban mania before, that too passed with no significant metagame impact and, obviously, no banning. The overwhelming majority of such fears don't pan out because Modern is a remarkably robust and adaptive format. Similarly, there is significant incentive for authors, commenters, streamers, pros, and even average community members to hype up these kinds of decks for clicks, views, upvotes, reputation, accolades, etc. Don't buy into this hype. Wait for results and trust that the overwhelming majority of such fears will be unfounded, the deck in question actually isn't that good/broken, and the metagame will adjust to most emerging strategies.
Bridgevine was simply not consistent enough, especially when Dredge, a very resilient deck, can Turn 3 people, and turn 4/5 with ease, there was just no need to risk playing it.
Is whatever the heck this new thing better? I dont know, and honestly I doubt I care. Its simply Modern at this point.
There's another post floating around of a Turn 2 Swiftspear attacking for 20, thanks to Scale Up. Cool Wizards, Cool.
Modern has gotten exponentially more powerful over the last 8 months, its comical really, and yet people still have this absolutely unfounded fear of fair cards.
Bridgevine was simply not consistent enough, especially when Dredge, a very resilient deck, can Turn 3 people, and turn 4/5 with ease, there was just no need to risk playing it.
Is whatever the heck this new thing better? I dont know, and honestly I doubt I care. Its simply Modern at this point.
There's another post floating around of a Turn 2 Swiftspear attacking for 20, thanks to Scale Up. Cool Wizards, Cool.
Modern has gotten exponentially more powerful over the last 8 months, its comical really, and yet people still have this absolutely unfounded fear of fair cards.
it uses hogaak brodge from below and altar of dementia to have a combo kill outside the combat step. Look at Kanister streaming the deck it seems pretty broken imo. Every single obnoxious deck that isnt Tron is centered on abusing faithless looting.
I've seen these kinds of comments and assessments for literal years. A recent comparison was last summer when numerous authors, players, and posters in the older version of this thread (including players who rarely ever raise ban alarm) brought up the same fears about Bridgevine. Like basically every episode of ban fear and ban mania before, that too passed with no significant metagame impact and, obviously, no banning. The overwhelming majority of such fears don't pan out because Modern is a remarkably robust and adaptive format. Similarly, there is significant incentive for authors, commenters, streamers, pros, and even average community members to hype up these kinds of decks for clicks, views, upvotes, reputation, accolades, etc. Don't buy into this hype. Wait for results and trust that the overwhelming majority of such fears will be unfounded, the deck in question actually isn't that good/broken, and the metagame will adjust to most emerging strategies.
Bridgevine was simply not consistent enough, especially when Dredge, a very resilient deck, can Turn 3 people, and turn 4/5 with ease, there was just no need to risk playing it.
Is whatever the heck this new thing better? I dont know, and honestly I doubt I care. Its simply Modern at this point.
There's another post floating around of a Turn 2 Swiftspear attacking for 20, thanks to Scale Up. Cool Wizards, Cool.
Modern has gotten exponentially more powerful over the last 8 months, its comical really, and yet people still have this absolutely unfounded fear of fair cards.
complainers will complain
Who's complaining? Its a simple observation at this point that fair cards are feared, while what actually happens in games of Modern is 2019 is comical in comparison.
'But it would power up midrange!' lol so?
If one play's in competitive meta's, or online, and fears midrange, well...let me know as thats a meta I would much rather play in.
my active decks are 2 midrange and one control deck, so I would also like to see cards that make midrange better.
anyway, not complaining or anything. I've got used to the faithless looting meta already, so another "bridgevine" deck variant appearing does not worry me anymore.
With the addition of MH1 and the London mulligan I think we're (un)officially past the turn 4 format concept. I'd rather WotC accept this and don't start banning more cards if anything accepting the power creep and unban some stuff.
Word is, the deck isn't losing to leyline anymore either.
I don't know how it plays but from what I'm seeing not even a turn 3 board wipe is sufficient, as not only are you facing 20 power, you are milled out.
Word is, the deck isn't losing to leyline anymore either.
I don't know how it plays but from what I'm seeing not even a turn 3 board wipe is sufficient, as not only are you facing 20 power, you are milled out.
No, I've been trying to find a list as I dont see green in any of the 'kill shot' screenshots, though I guess the new monster is green so maybe thats it? Still, you dont draw your library, you dump it, and then sac the zombies and mill people....so yeah.
I'm not sure, but someone who has been streaming it mentioned they have won through GY hate, so I'm not sure.
Word is, the deck isn't losing to leyline anymore either.
I don't know how it plays but from what I'm seeing not even a turn 3 board wipe is sufficient, as not only are you facing 20 power, you are milled out.
you don't know how it plays but you're here spewing paranoid panic nonetheless
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And Hymn? You're a true madman
I would not lament a boost for those 2 (or 3) decks, and I play none of them.
Spirits
Hymn is like playing the lottery with your opponent's hand. I really don't want to add more of that into the format, even if it mostly just powers up fair decks. That's just a personal opinion. I'm not really sure if the power level would be too much for the format.
I actually like having a wide range of land hate available. I'll admit that none of them are a complete slam dunk, which is what I think what most people are hoping for, but it does force players to make some interesting deckbuilding decisions when trying to interact with lands. I do understand the desire for Sinkhole though.
There's not much left to say about GY based decks. Clearly they are fine, have been for 8+ months, otherwise Wizards would have done something about them.
Spirits
Here's a picture.
Spirits
I think looting is fine, personally. It's card disadvantage at face value. What makes the card busted is the amount of play space that cards have from the yard. Gravecrawler, bloodghast, Phoenix, and more are so far beyond fair rates when you can cheat them in or recur a million times it's not even funny.
It's like the spell payoff cards. Having UR be a spells matter color pair is fine, having payoffs like Phoenix is less fine because they can clock someone stupid fast. Even ascension seems inherently dangerous to me because it lets you double dip on EVERYTHING once it's online.
jori en, ruin diver is a fair ability in my eyes. Her stat line is weak and that keeps her from seeing play, but the ability is powerful recurring advantage. Even thing in the ice is okay - it's a powerful effect but one shot. Heck even young pyromancer is fine because it's easy to interact with. Graveyards just aren't that easy to deal with and so much value comes from the yard before the effective hate actually goes off in a bunch of games.
Format feels broken to me when I look at a card like scavenging ooze in elves and think it may be too slow. It's not, but it's not as strong as it once was.
Looting isn't the culprit. 3/2 fliers or giant dirt monsters crawling out of the yard t2 are.
I see. It looks like Bridgevine with some sac outlets. That deck happened to also get more hype than it actually warranted.
Yep, and then it got some upgrades, and a London Mulligan soon.
Yeah, but Sinkhole man, too strong.
At this point it should just be accepted that Wizards is more than fine with Modern being a very GY heavy format. I kept looking at Horizons and thinking 'yep, GY synergy again' over and over. We have a TON of GY hate already in the format, so at this point it seems like you just play to that angle, or you are disadvantaging yourself.
Spirits
I've seen these kinds of comments and assessments for literal years. A recent comparison was last summer when numerous authors, players, and posters in the older version of this thread (including players who rarely ever raise ban alarm) brought up the same fears about Bridgevine. Like basically every episode of ban fear and ban mania before, that too passed with no significant metagame impact and, obviously, no banning. The overwhelming majority of such fears don't pan out because Modern is a remarkably robust and adaptive format. Similarly, there is significant incentive for authors, commenters, streamers, pros, and even average community members to hype up these kinds of decks for clicks, views, upvotes, reputation, accolades, etc. Don't buy into this hype. Wait for results and trust that the overwhelming majority of such fears will be unfounded, the deck in question actually isn't that good/broken, and the metagame will adjust to most emerging strategies.
Is whatever the heck this new thing better? I dont know, and honestly I doubt I care. Its simply Modern at this point.
There's another post floating around of a Turn 2 Swiftspear attacking for 20, thanks to Scale Up. Cool Wizards, Cool.
Meanwhile, I'm rubbing 2 sticks together just trying for a Turn 4 loop with Yawgmoth, Thran Physician and Geralf's Messenger.
Modern has gotten exponentially more powerful over the last 8 months, its comical really, and yet people still have this absolutely unfounded fear of fair cards.
Spirits
complainers will complain
dat banhammer so good to yield
Who's complaining? Its a simple observation at this point that fair cards are feared, while what actually happens in games of Modern is 2019 is comical in comparison.
'But it would power up midrange!' lol so?
If one play's in competitive meta's, or online, and fears midrange, well...let me know as thats a meta I would much rather play in.
Spirits
anyway, not complaining or anything. I've got used to the faithless looting meta already, so another "bridgevine" deck variant appearing does not worry me anymore.
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Maybe a few months of leyline with London mulls will help bridgevine to go down.
I don't know how it plays but from what I'm seeing not even a turn 3 board wipe is sufficient, as not only are you facing 20 power, you are milled out.
Spirits
Do you have anything more substantive about how a graveyard-based combo deck gets around Leyline of the Void? Is it Force of Vigor?
I'm not sure, but someone who has been streaming it mentioned they have won through GY hate, so I'm not sure.
Hopefully we get some good example lists soon.
Is there a thread here for it?
Spirits
you don't know how it plays but you're here spewing paranoid panic nonetheless