MTG Salvation

Quote from KTROJAN »

Quote from idSurge »

Thing is, your 2nd example there is false, because we are getting cards like Assassin's Trophy, or Knight of Autumn, or Bedevil, or Teferi, on top of the things like Stony Silence, Alpine Moon, Damping Sphere.

We are quite consistently now being given tools that are applicable against a wide range of decks, and that 10, 10, 5, 5, 5, 5? Well 3 of those are going to be hit by the same hate/sideboard.

Can you do something about lands?
Can you do something about artifacts?
Can you do something about creatures?
Can you do something about enchantments?

If the answer to the above is no. Then the answer to this better be yes.

Can you race?

So we’re saying the answer is to race dredge? Might want can you do something about graveyards?

Right, missed, GY.

If Stoneforge and Green Sun's Zenith come off, I would be pretty happy if the remainder of the banned cards stayed there forever.

Sure, I would also love Preordain. But I know unbanning that would not be a good idea as it fits perfectly into Arclight.

Also, I realize many people will not be happy until "he who must not be named" is unbanned, but I also realize that will never happen.

I dont think Green Sun will come off. It would probably benefit unfair decks more than unfair

Quote from Pistallion »

I dont think Green Sun will come off. It would probably benefit unfair decks more than unfair

You're one of the posters here that I agree with more than almost anybody else, but what unfair decks would benefit from Green Sun's Zenith? Devoted Druid Combo or Infect?

I assume Devoted Druid Combo...I mean Infect doesn't really care what infect creature is in play do they? Whereas devoted Druid needs specific creatures to combo off.

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

I assume Devoted Druid Combo...I mean Infect doesn't really care what infect creature is in play do they? Whereas devoted Druid needs specific creatures to combo off.

Probably that. Green Sun's Zenith gets Devoted Druid and Duskwatch Recruiter. Outside of the all-in Eldritch Evolution, Postmortem Lunge version of Druid Combo getting Top 8, I don't know the last time that it did well in a tournament. Likewise for Elves. I don't know if they're bad or they're just not being played; probably a combination of both? But I would not be scared to help decks minimally that are already doing poorly.

Green Sun's Zenith doesn't really break anything. It's not a super fast card. It's a consistency card. The decks that it is in cannot slow down other decks enough to make use of this card all that much, sorry. If I can find every piece of my Druid Combo and win on turn 4 or 5, is that all that broken? Remember what others are doing; I don't have to say it again.

BTW, I lost to KCI last night on turn 3 in games 1 and 3. I was fine with it. If he has it, he has it. I wrote down what I thought he had in his hand in game 2 after he got me in game 1 on turn 3. He didn't have it in game 2, while my Hate was drawn. In game 3, I was off by a single card (outside of guessing exactly what land he had; I just put "land"). I sat there for around 20 min. in those games. Do I want it banned? Nope. People deserve to win if they draw well, just like I deserved to win when I played Grishoalbrand and had 2 land, Griselbrand, Faithless Looting, and Goryo's Vengeance in my hand. Like it or not, this is Modern right now.

I dont know, it would take something like GW Combo to make it into a thing. Modern is fast. If you are not doing something busted, and infinite mana is pretty busted, how do you even leverage GSZ?

Knight of the Reliquary now costs 4, at Sorcery Speed.

I think it would go into Infect, Bogles, and GW Company, and thats it. Do you want to pay 3 for a Goyf and get it Pushed? I doubt it. Do you want to pay 3 on your Turn for anything that isnt going to win you the game in a turn or 2?

Green is so bloody fair, that unless its one of those weird axis of play (Infect, Hexproof) or breaks (GW Counters) I dont know, I think I would rather play Collected Company, pretend I have Queller and hold up mana, and go from there.

I guess the best play theoretically is turn 1 Noble Hierarch, turn 2 Green Sun's Zenith for Devoted Druid, iiiiiif it survives, play Vizier of Remedies and Duskwatch Recruiter. Float 100,000 Green mana and activate Duswatch Recruiter. Get every Green creature in your deck and/or Walking Ballista and end it.

In that case, Green Sun's Zenith is damn good, but I think Devoted Druid faces all the challenges that it faced before, removal of an 0/2. Consistency is usually not a problem with Druid Combo in my opinion. Removal is. I wouldn't say it's as much so as with Storm, but it's up there (with Storm, consistency vs. power).

I've played BW Eldrazi and Taxes in an FNM today and it felt totally right, right now.

My bad draws equals those bad draws of the "totally busted decks" ( like KCI, HollowOne, Bridgevine, etc.) and there was nothing else i would have changed.
I won against Jund and Elves, lost to Living End. It felt great to compete with those decks because my pile wasn't even fancy or doing sth. totally busted.

It just played fair Magic

Quote from Polymorph »

I've played BW Eldrazi and Taxes in an FNM today and it felt totally right, right now.

My bad draws equals those bad draws of the "totally busted decks" ( like KCI, HollowOne, Bridgevine, etc.) and there was nothing else i would have changed.
I won against Jund and Elves, lost to Living End. It felt great to compete with those decks because my pile wasn't even fancy or doing sth. totally busted.

It just played fair Magic

It's funny you say that. I have a friend IRL that was talking online to an SCG Grinder named Chase (can't remember his last name) who was running Eldrazi Taxes. He had done pretty well, mind you this was over a month ago though, so I don't know how the meta changed.

The first time I ever lost to a Taxes deck in Modern was Eldrazi Taxes, so I have to respect the deck. I'm probably only over 50% against it and even when I had a good matchup, like Titanshift, it was rough to slog through. My main issue with BW Taxes personally is the weakness to Moon effects (not Alpine Moon so much). I feel that the mana base is atrocious, which admittedly I have done before. But there's not enough to allure me personally as a Combo player to the deck. (Also I kind of hate Eldrazi. Yes, I know I ran UR Eldrazi during Eldrazi Winter, but I didn't feel there was another choice. But I hate them; yes, I am a hater.)

I dont even think there is a Modern Meta.

Dang Deep Dive There Is No Meta.

Of course we cannot know cause WOTC hides the data.

True, but decks fall out of favor. Whether that's due to the deck not being well placed in the meta, perceived not to be well placed in the meta, not played much, or something else, that's up to interpretation and something we probably would have a tough time figuring out, even with data. Without? Psshhh, no chance!

Thats the thing, and I've mentioned it a few times now.

Did Infect actually get bad? No. It just fell out of favour.

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

Dang Deep Dive There Is No Meta.

Of course we cannot know cause WOTC hides the data.

Modern is too wide. It just is. There are too many decks, you could 'meta game' for anything, and simply not see it at a large event. Your local with 15 folks? Sure, probably. Anything beyond that, or online? Forget it. Trends sure, but to try and game the meta is just not feasible imo.

I don't agree some decks simply cannot win. You average standard deck for instance has no chance of winning a notable Modern Event.

Quote from AUTUMNTWILIGHT »

I don't agree some decks simply cannot win. You average standard deck for instance has no chance of winning a notable Modern Event.

That...doesnt mean there is a meta you could actually meaningfully, plan for in the sense of 'I'm not going to lose to these 2 or 3 decks'.

The fact that there is "no meta" is exactly why control and midrange have struggled so much, and why it's so much better to just play some fast/proactive deck. When you play a control/midrange deck, you are trying to line up answers with the threats you expect to see. Sometimes it lines up great and you crush every opponent. Sometimes you guess wrong and get dumpstered on by some random decks. C'est la vie.

Case in point.

My last 4 matches online.

R Phoenix
BUG Vengevine
Mill
BUG Midrange

Quote from idSurge »

Mill

Side note: this is a hilarious matchup for Phoenix. Extremely easy to get 3-4 birds out as early as turn 2.

I'm not so sure, the version I keep seeing has main deck surgical and extirpate.

Still, the point is the insanity of diversity.

Quote from idSurge »

I'm not so sure, the version I keep seeing has main deck surgical and extirpate.

Still, the point is the insanity of diversity.

Yeah, that matchup revolves 100% around whether or not they draw those exact cards. /Modern

I mean yes but I would also argue answers have not kept up with threats and will not under current WOTC design standards cause Counters and Board Wipes are no fun for the opponent but getting your face bashed in by aggro is apparently fair and fun for all.

Quote from cfusionpm »

Quote from idSurge »

Mill

Side note: this is a hilarious matchup for Phoenix. Extremely easy to get 3-4 birds out as early as turn 2.

this is not true. New style is 3-4 surgicals main + 3-4 extirpate after sideboard. Ensnaring bridge main too hard. Normally your Phoenix never come to attack