Really disappointed they are showing GP Liverpool over GP Portland. The nature of team unified modern makes me not really care to follow the coverage
RE: Punishing Fire - I could see repetitive gameplay as a reason to keep it banned after all in addition to the reasons it was banned in the first place
An alarming number of Phoenix decks in the Modern Day 2 SCG meta.
Plz don't be a busted deck...I can't lose another.
It's the new "it" thing with cards that are currently very good in Standard, which means many players have their copies and it's an easy port to Modern. Well, after the land-base hurdle I suppose.
I believe it's powerful enough to stay around but it will dwindle once the meta catches up to it, and I doubt it will be bannable in the long-term. I just hope we don't get a short-term knee-jerk reaction from WOTC like they did with Probe.
It's not not even remotely "alarming." 153 players made the cut and 14 are on Izzet Phoenix with 3 on Mono R Phoenix. That's 11% of the Day 2 metagame, which is way lower than some of the Humans, Tron, and Shadow metagames we've seen.
So...While we do talk about tournaments, what's moderns future look like? MTGO crashing has me thinking.
WOTC really seems to want MTG to become an Esport. That really would push LGS to want to cut back on selling their product, right? Less product, less FNM's and tournaments.
Modern seems unlikely to be put in Arena with how long it would take to code so many old cards. It also would be a nightmare to create a deck with how earning cards worked there.
No arena, less modern, wouldn't that make the paper drop in value, too?
I mean---isn't this problematic? I feel a bit hesitant buying further into modern with this transition. MTGO's market crash just sorta had this come into the full front.
The problem I have with MTGO numbers, is...they should NEVER have had this value. Its bloody digital code. Its a byte on a server somewhere. 'Oh lets give idSurge 2 more Phoenix's'
Update cards_owned
Set phoenixs = phoenixs + 2
Where account = idSurge
The concept of value was always cosmically overstated in MTGO collections.
Modern's value, if the format continues to be robust, will experience an immediate drop due to Ultimate Masters (have you seen some of these boxes...) and then, in a year it will climb back up.
As to my alarm over Phoenix decks, if you've lost a deck, and spent 3 years looking for a new one, you'll understand.
It's not not even remotely "alarming." 153 players made the cut and 14 are on Izzet Phoenix with 3 on Mono R Phoenix. That's 11% of the Day 2 metagame, which is way lower than some of the Humans, Tron, and Shadow metagames we've seen.
Not to mention that if you count Phoenix decks together then you also have to do that with other decks and then things look a bit different since it goes
18 R/x Phoenix
16 UW/x Control
15 UW/x Spirits
13 BG/x Midrange
12 Mono-Green Tron
And then a noticeable drop-off with Humans being the next at 8.
So...While we do talk about tournaments, what's moderns future look like? MTGO crashing has me thinking.
MTGO will be fine.
Private Mod Note
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Well... I got 9th on the Modo RPTQ playing UR Phoenix. The deck is more than real, been testing for quite a bit. Really liked my list. My two losses were to dredge and burn, the dredge player topdecked the looting to change the game in game 3, and my burn opponent had really good hands that matched up well against mine in two games.
On the topic of banning and the appearance of Phoenix. The deck is fueled by all the best cards currently in Modern, whether you play Rakdos, Izzet or just straight Mono Red. The MTGO Metagame was flooded with Noble Hierarch decks, which the Phoenix Decks have amazing matchups, which is why you see them with so much prevalence. The deck can easily lose to BGx fair decks (which is why I played some odd choices in my list), it's just very good against other degenerate decks.
The Jund deck in T8 is very hateful towards graveyards. 2 Ooze, 1 Kalitas and 3 Nihil Spellbomb maindeck.
On the GP side, Cheeri0s makes an appearance, with SV, of course. We can track the trial winners' decks to their records and end up with:
Hollow One at 7-1
Dredge at 7-1
Bridgevine at 7-1
Jund at 6-2
Cheeri0s at 6-2
Mono-red Phoenix at 7-1
Well... I got 9th on the Modo RPTQ playing UR Phoenix. The deck is more than real, been testing for quite a bit. Really liked my list. My two losses were to dredge and burn, the dredge player topdecked the looting to change the game in game 3, and my burn opponent had really good hands that matched up well against mine in two games.
On the topic of banning and the appearance of Phoenix. The deck is fueled by all the best cards currently in Modern, whether you play Rakdos, Izzet or just straight Mono Red. The MTGO Metagame was flooded with Noble Hierarch decks, which the Phoenix Decks have amazing matchups, which is why you see them with so much prevalence. The deck can easily lose to BGx fair decks (which is why I played some odd choices in my list), it's just very good against other degenerate decks.
Yeah, that probably wouldn't work out the best (for people that hate bans)…
Yes, the deck is very good from what I hear. A friend and local player (and former teammate ran off 10 straight wins to win Atlanta Regionals with UR Phoenix over Mono Red Phoenix in the finals. Insane stuff! I pretty much knew the deck was "real" from then on and Ross Merriam's win didn't swing me in the opposite direction.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I feel that whatever Liverpool shows shouldn't been seen as having much relevance since it is Team Unified which means some decks see more or less play than they normally would because of it. KCI doesn't share many cards with others decks which makes it a good choice same as Hardened Scales. Decks running stable cards of their respective colors are more difficult to play together.
I really enjoyed watching the dredge vs mill match (Round 11 I believe) on the Liverpool stream. I know many might be thinking dredge vs mill?? pffft 2 ships passing in the night typical modern goldfish format bla bla bla just based on what these 2 decks do but it was a really good match. The posturing and timing of key spells at key turns from mill to take the match shows that even among 'linear' decks there can be a lot of skill involved.
Edit: After watching a couple more rounds of Liverpool, I think the UR thing/phoenix decks are really sweet. Good set-up, hollywood-play swing turns to switch defense to offense, ability to race while packing robust amount of interaction.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I feel that whatever Liverpool shows shouldn't been seen as having much relevance since it is Team Unified which means some decks see more or less play than they normally would because of it. KCI doesn't share many cards with others decks which makes it a good choice same as Hardened Scales. Decks running stable cards of their respective colors are more difficult to play together.
In my opinion, Scales shares with more decks than the average deck does. I loaned Scales out to a friend for GP Portland. I had to take the Opals out of KCI, the Ancient Stirrings out of KCI, the Horizon Canopies out of Humans, and SB Nature's Claims out of any deck that sides them. I basically had to give up playing any of those decks this weekend, which was fine with me.
*Also been trying to find 4 more Ancient Stirrings so that I don't have to switch mine so frequently. I gave up any extras that I had years ago when people needed them for Tron. Thinking about getting M25 ones to keep them "separate" from the ROE ones.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It also seems hilarious for cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Preordain, and Splinter Twin to a lesser degree to be on the Banlist. Even Birthing Pod should be tested from Wizards, to see if it's ok in this metagame.
There are A LOT of more broken stuff going around.
It's pure sophism in my eyes. It's not because some cards are quite strong / broken and may need to be banned / watched, that others should come off the banlist because they are similar or seem less broken. It's pouring oil on the fire. That's at least what I understand in your post.
I agree some cards deserve unbans, but it's unrelated with Stirrings or Looting. SFM is the prime example of a card that's been discussed for years no matter what the format looks like.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I would rather see another powerful discard spell printed than a preordain unbanning.
Powerful discard help the fair Bx midrange decks, whereas powerful cantrips just help the linear decks more.
The problem, of course, is getting it through standard first. But if it's cleverly designed, I think it can be done. Collective Brutality was an excellent example of this - a card that's much stronger in modern than standard.
EDIT: even something like a non-random Hymn to Tourach would be very welcome in the format. It would greatly help attrition strategies, especially 8-rack
KCI leading the charge! Also two more KCI in the SCG Invitational. In isolation, those unique event types might not mean much. But on top of the existing KCI performance metrics we have, which are extensive and numerous, it's further confirmation that this is the best deck in Modern.
RE: Punishing Fire - I could see repetitive gameplay as a reason to keep it banned after all in addition to the reasons it was banned in the first place
I believe it's powerful enough to stay around but it will dwindle once the meta catches up to it, and I doubt it will be bannable in the long-term. I just hope we don't get a short-term knee-jerk reaction from WOTC like they did with Probe.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Okay, just saw the actual #s.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/4489_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html
It's not not even remotely "alarming." 153 players made the cut and 14 are on Izzet Phoenix with 3 on Mono R Phoenix. That's 11% of the Day 2 metagame, which is way lower than some of the Humans, Tron, and Shadow metagames we've seen.
WOTC really seems to want MTG to become an Esport. That really would push LGS to want to cut back on selling their product, right? Less product, less FNM's and tournaments.
Modern seems unlikely to be put in Arena with how long it would take to code so many old cards. It also would be a nightmare to create a deck with how earning cards worked there.
No arena, less modern, wouldn't that make the paper drop in value, too?
I mean---isn't this problematic? I feel a bit hesitant buying further into modern with this transition. MTGO's market crash just sorta had this come into the full front.
Update cards_owned
Set phoenixs = phoenixs + 2
Where account = idSurge
The concept of value was always cosmically overstated in MTGO collections.
Modern's value, if the format continues to be robust, will experience an immediate drop due to Ultimate Masters (have you seen some of these boxes...) and then, in a year it will climb back up.
As to my alarm over Phoenix decks, if you've lost a deck, and spent 3 years looking for a new one, you'll understand.
Spirits
Not to mention that if you count Phoenix decks together then you also have to do that with other decks and then things look a bit different since it goes
18 R/x Phoenix
16 UW/x Control
15 UW/x Spirits
13 BG/x Midrange
12 Mono-Green Tron
And then a noticeable drop-off with Humans being the next at 8.
If you combine things as you've done, things look pretty good. I would drop Humans and Spirits together though, as Vial decks.
For those on Phones that dont link well.
Izzet Phoenix – 15
Bant Spirits – 14
Mono-Green Tron – 12
Jeskai Control – 10
Humans – 8
Jund – 8
Ironworks – 7
Amulet Titan – 7
Burn – 6
Hollow+One – 6
Azorius Control -6
Dredge – 6
Golgari Midrange – 5
Storm – 4
Affinity – 4
Infect – 4
Mono-Red Phoenix – 3
Ad+Nauseam – 3
Grixis Whir – 3
Hardened+Scales – 3
Elves – 2
Grixis Shadow – 2
Titan Shift – 2
Jund Shadow – 1
Four-Color Shadow – 1
Selesnya Hexproof – 1
Living+End – 1
Dimir Mill -1
Devoted Evolution – 1
Izzet Kiln Fiend – 1
Azorius Spirits – 1
Titan Breach – 1
Colorless Eldrazi – 1
Runaway Red – 1
Blue Moon – 1
Venerated Taxes – 1
Spirits
As a former Pod player, I feel you, former opponent.
MTGO will be fine.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)On the topic of banning and the appearance of Phoenix. The deck is fueled by all the best cards currently in Modern, whether you play Rakdos, Izzet or just straight Mono Red. The MTGO Metagame was flooded with Noble Hierarch decks, which the Phoenix Decks have amazing matchups, which is why you see them with so much prevalence. The deck can easily lose to BGx fair decks (which is why I played some odd choices in my list), it's just very good against other degenerate decks.
It's nothing ban worthy, but could you imagine a world with Gitaxian Probe and Arclight Phoenix?
The Jund deck in T8 is very hateful towards graveyards. 2 Ooze, 1 Kalitas and 3 Nihil Spellbomb maindeck.
On the GP side, Cheeri0s makes an appearance, with SV, of course. We can track the trial winners' decks to their records and end up with:
Hollow One at 7-1
Dredge at 7-1
Bridgevine at 7-1
Jund at 6-2
Cheeri0s at 6-2
Mono-red Phoenix at 7-1
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Yeah, that probably wouldn't work out the best (for people that hate bans)…
Yes, the deck is very good from what I hear. A friend and local player (and former teammate ran off 10 straight wins to win Atlanta Regionals with UR Phoenix over Mono Red Phoenix in the finals. Insane stuff! I pretty much knew the deck was "real" from then on and Ross Merriam's win didn't swing me in the opposite direction.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Is the only info I have so far from Portland. Liverpool apparently has a lot of KCI?
Spirits
Edit: After watching a couple more rounds of Liverpool, I think the UR thing/phoenix decks are really sweet. Good set-up, hollywood-play swing turns to switch defense to offense, ability to race while packing robust amount of interaction.
In my opinion, Scales shares with more decks than the average deck does. I loaned Scales out to a friend for GP Portland. I had to take the Opals out of KCI, the Ancient Stirrings out of KCI, the Horizon Canopies out of Humans, and SB Nature's Claims out of any deck that sides them. I basically had to give up playing any of those decks this weekend, which was fine with me.
*Also been trying to find 4 more Ancient Stirrings so that I don't have to switch mine so frequently. I gave up any extras that I had years ago when people needed them for Tron. Thinking about getting M25 ones to keep them "separate" from the ROE ones.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It's pure sophism in my eyes. It's not because some cards are quite strong / broken and may need to be banned / watched, that others should come off the banlist because they are similar or seem less broken. It's pouring oil on the fire. That's at least what I understand in your post.
I agree some cards deserve unbans, but it's unrelated with Stirrings or Looting. SFM is the prime example of a card that's been discussed for years no matter what the format looks like.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpliv18/top-4-decklists-2018-12-09
Spirits
Powerful discard help the fair Bx midrange decks, whereas powerful cantrips just help the linear decks more.
The problem, of course, is getting it through standard first. But if it's cleverly designed, I think it can be done. Collective Brutality was an excellent example of this - a card that's much stronger in modern than standard.
EDIT: even something like a non-random Hymn to Tourach would be very welcome in the format. It would greatly help attrition strategies, especially 8-rack
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/results/format/28/start_date/07-12-2018/end_date/09-12-2018/start/1/finish/8/w_perc/0/g_perc/0/r_perc/0/b_perc/0/u_perc/0/a_perc/0/order_1/finish/limit/25/start_num/0/
Jund
Dredge
KCI
UR Phoenix
R Phoenix
Storm
KCI
Bant Spirits
Spirits
KCI leading the charge! Also two more KCI in the SCG Invitational. In isolation, those unique event types might not mean much. But on top of the existing KCI performance metrics we have, which are extensive and numerous, it's further confirmation that this is the best deck in Modern.
Spirits
Think the best part of mentioning KCI on Twitter is summoning this one guy who adamantly defends Ancient Stirrings no matter what.
Hilarious
Pros whinging about Modern is like falling in the ocean and complaining about getting wet.