THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
For what it's worth it was one of the most insightful B&R they wrote. Saddens me that they did not consider banning Ichor Wellspring, or at least didn't refer to it.
Now it's time for the "No UNBAN TWIN" rage posts.... Sit back and enjoy!
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
while i think that this is a very cool article to read, it seems that there are some contradictions in it, and some paragraph are... strange. I dont like any unbans, but we'll see
For what it's worth it was one of the most insightful B&R they wrote. Saddens me that they did not consider banning Ichor Wellspring, or at least didn't refer to it.
Now it's time for the "No UNBAN TWIN" rage posts.... Sit back and enjoy!
I agree - it was a great writeup. I think that they thought it was best to go for the jugular and kill the whole deck dead. I'm sure there's another, similar card to wellspring - prophetic prism, for instance, where the loop is still infinite but they draw half the cards, which makes longer turns and doesn't solve the problem.
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Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I really like that they gave us a detailed article about how they approached their decision and what they are keeping an eye on in the future. Not seeing a SFM unban is kinda rough but overall well done WOTC!
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Modern // Legacy // Pauper WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
I am also very happy that this B&R list vindicates the data-driven approach I and others used over the past year. Not only was this ultimately used as part of the B&R rationale, but so was its high T8 percentage relative to its overall GP prevalence ("While the primary reasons for banning a card from the Ironworks deck are its raw win rate and high GP Top 8 conversion rate..."). These were both publicly available information sources that we used to successfully predict a ban at the deck, and show that our MWP and GP T8 methodology is pretty sound for predicting format health; these methods also suggested Opal and Stirrings were safe.
Kind of surprised they didn't ban Scrap Trawler instead. Weakens KCI (but allows the deck to continue to exist), doesn't impact other decks, and solves the complicated rules/gamestates issue that they mention in their justification.
I'm sad the whole deck had to go, but super happy with the amount of transparency in this article. I would have liked to hear about any discussion on what might be able to be unbanned, but I guess that would just feed into speculation-buying for the next go-around and wouldn't actually contribute anything unless they actually unbanned something.
So next B&R is March 11th, this is followed by 3 gps in the same month for modern. Not saying it means anything but just throwing it out there since an unban is a way to upset the meta without killing peoples decks outright
I'm sad the whole deck had to go, but super happy with the amount of transparency in this article. I would have liked to hear about any discussion on what might be able to be unbanned, but I guess that would just feed into speculation-buying for the next go-around and wouldn't actually contribute anything unless they actually unbanned something.
I honestly think this is why they don't report on unban discussions - it causes more problems than it solves in that regard.
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Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
So next B&R is March 11th, this is followed by 3 gps in the same month for modern. Not saying it means anything but just throwing it out there since an unban is a way to upset the meta without killing peoples decks outright
Because of those 3 GPs and the fact that today there were changes, I could certainly bet that the next announcement is going to be "No changes" unless some absurd broken deck surges like Eldrazi Winter did
So next B&R is March 11th, this is followed by 3 gps in the same month for modern. Not saying it means anything but just throwing it out there since an unban is a way to upset the meta without killing peoples decks outright
Because of those 3 GPs and the fact that today there were changes, I could certainly bet that the next announcement is going to be "No changes" unless some absurd broken deck surges like Eldrazi Winter did
I 100% agree. In fact, I would say that basically no amount of perceived brokenness would result in changes occurring in that update. Remember that in Eldrazi Winter we had a triple GP March and Wizards still didn't ban Eye/Temple/Eldrazi-card going into that month. This was a slightly different scenario because the planned B&R update was already set for April, not the middle of the GP stretch, but I think the precedent still holds. I would expect Wizards to look at format health after March and then make unbans (and bans, if anything really goes crazy) at that time.
never had a problem playn vs kci, UW control is far less fun to play against, but thats just my personal view
but i am not sure if it had to be banned. i would like them to print more toolkit cards against these decks rather than banning these decks (completly!). they should give the community time to figur out how to play against these decks. yes they have risen, but so have other decks before and they all had fallen.
kind of feel sorry for those players who invested in these decks.
would have prefered to see unbannings (deathrite shaman in my case, i know, 1 mana walker, but i dont think he is that strong in modern anymore. there are plenty of ways to deal with it. and yes, i am for a modern format where u have interaction and deal with ur opponent, not two people playn watching each other playn their deck to see who wins first. shaman is more and more a card some decks might beed to become meaningful again and i dont care for twin) rather than bannings
PS: No unbans is probably since they not UW was in second place.
PPS: Stirrings and Opal are being watched.
All in all, a fine update.
Based on your earlier post about Arena, I have to say you've taken this very well.
Honestly, I just want information, transparency, and the ability to at least pretend they are being honest with us. I get that from this announcement.
As to Arena, I can play Best of One Xerox Burn and abuse the fact they will almost always give me 2 lands thanks to the algorithm (the same deck does NOT work out on MTGO lol) and I can play Wilderness Reclamation Nexus on Standard MTGO. I may even brew up a UG Taking Turns/Growth Spiral deck for Modern.
All in all though, just taking out KCI is not going to change my view on Modern, so I'll just mess with Standard/Arena and see how things go till March.
PS: No unbans is probably since they not UW was in second place.
PPS: Stirrings and Opal are being watched.
All in all, a fine update.
Based on your earlier post about Arena, I have to say you've taken this very well.
I agree with all this too. The information in this announcement was great and helped clear things up a lot. This announcement was not a homerun IMO as I would like some unbans, but it was fairly predictable and data driven, This result was fine enough for now.
Nice to see that they addressed community concerns about stirrings by painting it in a positive light (while also mentioning that they'll keep an eye on it). Can't say fairer than that.
Also, as an owner and player of KCI. thank goodness. I'm freeeeeeeee
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Nice to see that they addressed community concerns about stirrings by painting it in a positive light (while also mentioning that they'll keep an eye on it). Can't say fairer than that.
Also, as an owner and player of KCI. thank goodness. I'm freeeeeeeee
Yeah, I am glad they finally talked about cards they are watching, at least now the idea of "They shouldn't say nothing as there would be too much speculation" can be debunked and we can get some insights in those "no changes" announcements
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RIP SFM speculators
This announcement is something new, "excessively arcane rules interactions" is now a factor.
P.S. also, a word of silence for all the jank tier 5 brews with Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry + Krark-Clan Ironworks. Or the combo on Johnny, Combo Player himself.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Hooray! Faithless Looting is safe. they did not even mention it in the article. hehe
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Source: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/january-21-2019-banned-and-restricted-announcement
I don't want to hear anymore about either of these two cards for a very long time.
Now it's time for the "No UNBAN TWIN" rage posts.... Sit back and enjoy!
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
I agree - it was a great writeup. I think that they thought it was best to go for the jugular and kill the whole deck dead. I'm sure there's another, similar card to wellspring - prophetic prism, for instance, where the loop is still infinite but they draw half the cards, which makes longer turns and doesn't solve the problem.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Modern // Legacy // Pauper
WUBRG
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
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"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
PS: No unbans is probably since they not UW was in second place.
PPS: Stirrings and Opal are being watched.
All in all, a fine update.
Spirits
Based on your earlier post about Arena, I have to say you've taken this very well.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I honestly think this is why they don't report on unban discussions - it causes more problems than it solves in that regard.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Because of those 3 GPs and the fact that today there were changes, I could certainly bet that the next announcement is going to be "No changes" unless some absurd broken deck surges like Eldrazi Winter did
I 100% agree. In fact, I would say that basically no amount of perceived brokenness would result in changes occurring in that update. Remember that in Eldrazi Winter we had a triple GP March and Wizards still didn't ban Eye/Temple/Eldrazi-card going into that month. This was a slightly different scenario because the planned B&R update was already set for April, not the middle of the GP stretch, but I think the precedent still holds. I would expect Wizards to look at format health after March and then make unbans (and bans, if anything really goes crazy) at that time.
but i am not sure if it had to be banned. i would like them to print more toolkit cards against these decks rather than banning these decks (completly!). they should give the community time to figur out how to play against these decks. yes they have risen, but so have other decks before and they all had fallen.
kind of feel sorry for those players who invested in these decks.
would have prefered to see unbannings (deathrite shaman in my case, i know, 1 mana walker, but i dont think he is that strong in modern anymore. there are plenty of ways to deal with it. and yes, i am for a modern format where u have interaction and deal with ur opponent, not two people playn watching each other playn their deck to see who wins first. shaman is more and more a card some decks might beed to become meaningful again and i dont care for twin) rather than bannings
Honestly, I just want information, transparency, and the ability to at least pretend they are being honest with us. I get that from this announcement.
As to Arena, I can play Best of One Xerox Burn and abuse the fact they will almost always give me 2 lands thanks to the algorithm (the same deck does NOT work out on MTGO lol) and I can play Wilderness Reclamation Nexus on Standard MTGO. I may even brew up a UG Taking Turns/Growth Spiral deck for Modern.
All in all though, just taking out KCI is not going to change my view on Modern, so I'll just mess with Standard/Arena and see how things go till March.
Spirits
I agree with all this too. The information in this announcement was great and helped clear things up a lot. This announcement was not a homerun IMO as I would like some unbans, but it was fairly predictable and data driven, This result was fine enough for now.
Must suck for people who will be hoping still in 2+ years for an unban.
EDH: Ghave, Guru of Spores - Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Maelstrom Wanderer
Dual Commander: Narset, Enlightened Master
Tiny Leaders: Merieke Ri Berit - Vial Smasher the Fierce / Ludevic, Necro-Alcemist - Tymna the Weaver, Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
Pauper: Affinity
Also, as an owner and player of KCI. thank goodness. I'm freeeeeeeee
Yeah, I am glad they finally talked about cards they are watching, at least now the idea of "They shouldn't say nothing as there would be too much speculation" can be debunked and we can get some insights in those "no changes" announcements