I am curious on where they print SFM and some weapons though.
No they dont. And they dont need to reprint things either. An elegant ban of Wellspring would probably be enough to lower its raw power. At that point its just one of many options in a sea of chaotic shifting meta choices.
unfortunately the damage has already been done. both versions of sfm spiked by roughly 35% when they had barely moved at all prior to that.
oh well, still hope the card gets unbanned.
Maybe it's because I don't trade but wouldn't it make more sense for speculators to mass-buy the mythic card that is probably going to see more play than it does now if SFM gets unbanned? Batterskull
Well not really. In Legacy, SFM is played with 3 or 4 copies in a deck. Batterskull is a one off. There will always be more SFM needed than Batterskull. I expect Modern to be similar if SFM gets unbanned.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I don't think that false (potentially) image is fully to blame for the SFM spike. Look at it's price on mtgstocks and it spiked several times before banlist announcements. I do like that time in the graph where it stopped spiking, as if the community just gave up hope. Haha
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I don't think that false (potentially) image is fully to blame for the SFM spike. Look at it's price on mtgstocks and it spiked several times before banlist announcements. I do like that time in the graph where it stopped spiking, as if the community just gave up hope. Haha
If I recall correctly, for the previous spike there was another fake image behind it.
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Modern is not Legacy. Modern has a tons of decks with full pack of removals (Even betters than legacy what needs more counters tan removals) and a 5/5 in turn 2 is not that crazy in modern at this times. I'm exceptical with the fact that SFM will be succesful in this format.
I don't think that false (potentially) image is fully to blame for the SFM spike. Look at it's price on mtgstocks and it spiked several times before banlist announcements. I do like that time in the graph where it stopped spiking, as if the community just gave up hope. Haha
If I recall correctly, for the previous spike there was another fake image behind it.
There were several spikes. I think one of them had a false image associated, but since it's been a commonly suggested 'safe' card to unban for a little over a year, I think people just assume that 'this will be the time' for it.
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So tired of those posts getting made to Reddit and/or shared on social media. I disproved the last one about Ensnaring Bridge and it looks like this one is just as fraudulent. Posts like that just increase ban mania, uncertainty during an already uncertain period, distrust, and misinformation. They are terrible for the community and I wish Reddit was more responsible in shutting down or editing such information once it has clearly been proven false.
I'll also add that information consumers have a responsibility to be more discriminating. It takes about 15 seconds of running this through any free photo forensic software to identify glaring signs of a faked screenshot. It literally says it's a photoshopped image in the metadata. I don't know about you, but I don't run my screenshots through photoshop before posting them.
The post has since been taken down, but I saw while it was live that a mod stickied their comment to the top with their rationale to keeping it live; basically if they took it down there would be reposts and people accusing the mods of being "shills" so they kept it up with the caveat that it was "probably fake". Looks like they removed it after the photoshop analysis or whatever was posted.
I don't think that false (potentially) image is fully to blame for the SFM spike. Look at it's price on mtgstocks and it spiked several times before banlist announcements. I do like that time in the graph where it stopped spiking, as if the community just gave up hope. Haha
SFM stock always ticks up prior to a B&R announcement. Fraudulent posts that pretend to be leaks just throw fuel onto that fire; I'm sure plenty of people saw that post and immediately went to pick up copies of the card without any confirmation of legitimacy.
I seem to remember that KCI was around for a while and a fringe deck (maybe I remember wrong). What has changed to propel it so high in the standings?
Its only been around really, for about a year, year and a half? Since then, it was played by Matt Nass who proved it is essentially busted, with something like an 85% match win rate over several GP events.
It took SCG players about the whole year to catch on that they where all playing inferior decks, but their last major event of 2018 had KCI vs Dredge in the finals I believe of the Open and Classic portions.
We then saw GP Oakland, with 4 KCI in the top 8, as the capstone of a deck that see's comparably less play, yet dominated the Top 8's, over 2018.
Amusing. I guess my opinion was warped by watching shoktroopa's U Tron replays. I have a vague recollection that he was annihilating the deck so I didn't give it much thought at all. Or maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.
Its only been around really, for about a year, year and a half? Since then, it was played by Matt Nass who proved it is essentially busted, with something like an 85% match win rate over several GP events.
It took SCG players about the whole year to catch on that they where all playing inferior decks, but their last major event of 2018 had KCI vs Dredge in the finals I believe of the Open and Classic portions.
We then saw GP Oakland, with 4 KCI in the top 8, as the capstone of a deck that see's comparably less play, yet dominated the Top 8's, over 2018.
Naw, KCI eggs has been around in some form for years, it was just super fringe because it wasn't good.
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I seem to remember that KCI was around for a while and a fringe deck (maybe I remember wrong). What has changed to propel it so high in the standings?
Its only been around really, for about a year, year and a half? Since then, it was played by Matt Nass who proved it is essentially busted, with something like an 85% match win rate over several GP events.
It took SCG players about the whole year to catch on that they where all playing inferior decks, but their last major event of 2018 had KCI vs Dredge in the finals I believe of the Open and Classic portions.
We then saw GP Oakland, with 4 KCI in the top 8, as the capstone of a deck that see's comparably less play, yet dominated the Top 8's, over 2018.
I think the poster is referring to the old KCI eggs decklist, which was a tier 2 deck that is definitely more than a year and a half old. The big difference between the old and recent KCI lists is Scrap Trawler, which allows the deck to loop cards for massive value and well as give the deck an infinite combo. Sai, Master Thopterist is also worth a mention, as he allows the best combo deck in the format to fight fair when subjected to hate, making the deck very flexible and resilient.
Yeah I see it now, the redundancy/flexibility gain from Scrap Trawler is huge. Sai is Empty the Warrens on a stick. Nice. Not the type of deck I'd find interesting to play, but it's less surprising now that it mops the floor with a lot of decks.
I wouldn't be surprised if it eats a ban at some point because WotC really dislikes letting this kind of deck run the show (presuming it continues to do that).
unfortunately the damage has already been done. both versions of sfm spiked by roughly 35% when they had barely moved at all prior to that.
oh well, still hope the card gets unbanned.
Have to agree to this. I can't exactly tell how much they spiked, but the prices of SFM right now on SCG are indeed higher than they were a few months ago.
Strangely though, the price of Batterskull at SCG has actually decreased by a lot.. down by 3 or 4 dollars from last December. I know SCG isn't the only online store, and is no way a marker of overall market prices.. so take with grain of salt.
Sai is fine after all WOTC is perfectly down will beating face with creatures especially creatures that dont come with Haste and gives your opponent a turn to answer.
It was pretty much 100% Scrap Trawler and the slight innovations of Nass to include stuff like buried ruin, inventors fair and EE. Thats why I Think Scrap Trawler should be banned because it's the real reason the deck is busted. The reason why it goes infinite and the reason why it's resilient to all non persistent grave hate.
Old eggs could exist without both KCI and Scrap Trawler but is no where as good
It was pretty much 100% Scrap Trawler and the slight innovations of Nass to include stuff like buried ruin, inventors fair and EE. Thats why I Think Scrap Trawler should be banned because it's the real reason the deck is busted. The reason why it goes infinite and the reason why it's resilient to all non persistent grave hate.
Old eggs could exist without both KCI and Scrap Trawler but is no where as good
I also think Trawler is the ban target. KCI itself is another option, but something like Wellspring is too cute and indirect.
That said, this isn't necessarily the banlist update where all these changes happen. The February update would also be possible. But I do wager we'll see some changes before March.
I think they should just ban KCI personally. The card is liable to break nonsense every time they have an artifact block.
On the flipside Scrap Trawler is a perfectly fair card that could enable other fun designs.
It's not like the old KCI deck really adds anything to the format; a tier 2-3 junker deck that has a tendency to take very long turns when designed optimally.
All in all I think I'd rather see another scrap trawler deck turn up than another KCI deck
With some rationale for what Wizards will do:
Picking from history anyway, Wizards is usually slow to ban the more recent card, so I seriously doubt Trawler gets banned.
Prized Amalgam was the card that broke modern dredge, and yet GGT got banned. Deathrite Shaman was the card that broke modern Jund, and yet BBE got banned
There are a few exceptions (dig/treasure cruise). But you can even see this with the Eye of Ugin ban - eye gets banned but the new Eldrazi were the problem (admittedly, a ban list with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-knot seer looks weird).
As far as I can tell Wizards will do gymnastics to avoid banning recent cards out of modern. I'd be very surprised to see a Trawler ban just on that basis.
I think they should just ban KCI personally. The card is liable to break nonsense every time they have an artifact block.
On the flipside Scrap Trawler is a perfectly fair card that could enable other fun designs.
It's not like the old KCI deck really adds anything to the format; a tier 2-3 junker deck that has a tendency to take very long turns when designed optimally.
All in all I think I'd rather see another scrap trawler deck turn up than another KCI deck
With some rationale for what Wizards will do:
Picking from history anyway, Wizards is usually slow to ban the more recent card, so I seriously doubt Trawler gets banned.
Prized Amalgam was the card that broke modern dredge, and yet GGT got banned. Deathrite Shaman was the card that broke modern Jund, and yet BBE got banned
There are a few exceptions (dig/treasure cruise). But you can even see this with the Eye of Ugin ban - eye gets banned but the new Eldrazi were the problem (admittedly, a ban list with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-knot seer looks weird).
As far as I can tell Wizards will do gymnastics to avoid banning recent cards out of modern. I'd be very surprised to see a Trawler ban just on that basis.
What is funny is the ban always is targeted towards fast mana and free stuff. I think if there is a ban, it will be KCI
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I think they should just ban KCI personally. The card is liable to break nonsense every time they have an artifact block.
On the flipside Scrap Trawler is a perfectly fair card that could enable other fun designs.
It's not like the old KCI deck really adds anything to the format; a tier 2-3 junker deck that has a tendency to take very long turns when designed optimally.
All in all I think I'd rather see another scrap trawler deck turn up than another KCI deck
With some rationale for what Wizards will do:
Picking from history anyway, Wizards is usually slow to ban the more recent card, so I seriously doubt Trawler gets banned.
Prized Amalgam was the card that broke modern dredge, and yet GGT got banned. Deathrite Shaman was the card that broke modern Jund, and yet BBE got banned
There are a few exceptions (dig/treasure cruise). But you can even see this with the Eye of Ugin ban - eye gets banned but the new Eldrazi were the problem (admittedly, a ban list with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-knot seer looks weird).
As far as I can tell Wizards will do gymnastics to avoid banning recent cards out of modern. I'd be very surprised to see a Trawler ban just on that basis.
I think you are right. I don't see them banning Trawler at all. IMO the target to ban is Ancient Stirrings. I think banning cards out of KCI is a bit of an overreaction, given that it dies (very hard I might add) to any graveyard hate.
KCI is a large portion of the meta right now, but it will drop similarly to how Lantern dropped last year. Lantern and KCI are both very very high skill level decks to play, and once people start figuring that out it will drop off.
To give you an idea of how hard Lantern is; Luis Salvatto played the deck once at a GP and decided to never play it again because it was too difficult. Salvatto is one of the best players in the game right now.
Yes he was talking about Lantern, but the difficulty of playing either deck is the same. Just give it time.
Nothing is as oppressive as the Eldrazi Winter right now. Nothing is as dominant as Pod or Twin was right now. We have new hot decks at the top, and we have to take a deep breathe and let the meta work itself out. If it doesn't then I am all for a ban of something in KCI. But for the time being lets just pump the brakes a bit..
No they dont. And they dont need to reprint things either. An elegant ban of Wellspring would probably be enough to lower its raw power. At that point its just one of many options in a sea of chaotic shifting meta choices.
Spirits
oh well, still hope the card gets unbanned.
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WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Maybe it's because I don't trade but wouldn't it make more sense for speculators to mass-buy the mythic card that is probably going to see more play than it does now if SFM gets unbanned? Batterskull
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
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There were several spikes. I think one of them had a false image associated, but since it's been a commonly suggested 'safe' card to unban for a little over a year, I think people just assume that 'this will be the time' for it.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
The post has since been taken down, but I saw while it was live that a mod stickied their comment to the top with their rationale to keeping it live; basically if they took it down there would be reposts and people accusing the mods of being "shills" so they kept it up with the caveat that it was "probably fake". Looks like they removed it after the photoshop analysis or whatever was posted.
SFM stock always ticks up prior to a B&R announcement. Fraudulent posts that pretend to be leaks just throw fuel onto that fire; I'm sure plenty of people saw that post and immediately went to pick up copies of the card without any confirmation of legitimacy.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Its only been around really, for about a year, year and a half? Since then, it was played by Matt Nass who proved it is essentially busted, with something like an 85% match win rate over several GP events.
It took SCG players about the whole year to catch on that they where all playing inferior decks, but their last major event of 2018 had KCI vs Dredge in the finals I believe of the Open and Classic portions.
We then saw GP Oakland, with 4 KCI in the top 8, as the capstone of a deck that see's comparably less play, yet dominated the Top 8's, over 2018.
Spirits
Naw, KCI eggs has been around in some form for years, it was just super fringe because it wasn't good.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
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I wouldn't be surprised if it eats a ban at some point because WotC really dislikes letting this kind of deck run the show (presuming it continues to do that).
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UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Have to agree to this. I can't exactly tell how much they spiked, but the prices of SFM right now on SCG are indeed higher than they were a few months ago.
Strangely though, the price of Batterskull at SCG has actually decreased by a lot.. down by 3 or 4 dollars from last December. I know SCG isn't the only online store, and is no way a marker of overall market prices.. so take with grain of salt.
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Old eggs could exist without both KCI and Scrap Trawler but is no where as good
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I also think Trawler is the ban target. KCI itself is another option, but something like Wellspring is too cute and indirect.
That said, this isn't necessarily the banlist update where all these changes happen. The February update would also be possible. But I do wager we'll see some changes before March.
On the flipside Scrap Trawler is a perfectly fair card that could enable other fun designs.
It's not like the old KCI deck really adds anything to the format; a tier 2-3 junker deck that has a tendency to take very long turns when designed optimally.
All in all I think I'd rather see another scrap trawler deck turn up than another KCI deck
With some rationale for what Wizards will do:
Picking from history anyway, Wizards is usually slow to ban the more recent card, so I seriously doubt Trawler gets banned.
Prized Amalgam was the card that broke modern dredge, and yet GGT got banned.
Deathrite Shaman was the card that broke modern Jund, and yet BBE got banned
There are a few exceptions (dig/treasure cruise). But you can even see this with the Eye of Ugin ban - eye gets banned but the new Eldrazi were the problem (admittedly, a ban list with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-knot seer looks weird).
As far as I can tell Wizards will do gymnastics to avoid banning recent cards out of modern. I'd be very surprised to see a Trawler ban just on that basis.
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What is funny is the ban always is targeted towards fast mana and free stuff. I think if there is a ban, it will be KCI
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I think you are right. I don't see them banning Trawler at all. IMO the target to ban is Ancient Stirrings. I think banning cards out of KCI is a bit of an overreaction, given that it dies (very hard I might add) to any graveyard hate.
KCI is a large portion of the meta right now, but it will drop similarly to how Lantern dropped last year. Lantern and KCI are both very very high skill level decks to play, and once people start figuring that out it will drop off.
To give you an idea of how hard Lantern is; Luis Salvatto played the deck once at a GP and decided to never play it again because it was too difficult. Salvatto is one of the best players in the game right now.
Yes he was talking about Lantern, but the difficulty of playing either deck is the same. Just give it time.
Nothing is as oppressive as the Eldrazi Winter right now. Nothing is as dominant as Pod or Twin was right now. We have new hot decks at the top, and we have to take a deep breathe and let the meta work itself out. If it doesn't then I am all for a ban of something in KCI. But for the time being lets just pump the brakes a bit..