This further reinforces my staement that uw control is a true tier 1 deck.
Again, blue mages should be happy. I am guessing that also javier dominguez is the undefeated jeskai teferi player, and I guess that he will top 8 his third gp in a row(one with humans, one with jeskai already).
If you are not a hypicrite, imo you should stop actively seeking a twin unban now, since our arguments were that control were dead.
Tldr, blue control state is fine!
You do realize twin and u/w play completely differently right.
It is still an attrition deck, but without a combo finish. I cant really understand how can you completely like the one and dislike the other.
I think its mostly the fact that with W/U control, you do not get to have free wins, which is weird at best.
Edit: can one admin merge or delete my posts? I can not edit, can post but a weird message pops up, probably server issues. And many other people have the same issue as well. Sorry for the 5 posts in a row.
Why does it have to be all and/or nothing? I personally don’t care to go to time every round and pick up draws. Especially at fnm’s where it just about kills your prize payouts. Not to mention making everyone there wait forever between rounds. What makes combo kills “free wins”?
not surprised about UW. people love their control decks, terminus is a means to fight back on the mana cheating front, exile or similar effects are well situated, better mana base, powerful sideboard hate, and you finally get to play with the jaces that you paid top dollar for.
i dunno about thoughts of wanting twin to be unbanned being invalidated. maybe some consciously changed their narrative or whatever, but we are talking about something people have desperately wanted back over years now. arguments might shift out of desperation and the shifting context of the format. blue control decks fighting to find a foothold in the format despite obvious attempts from wizards is just one chapter in the story.
time is now a factor. its been long enough that the format has changed continues to grow in power. so its more acceptable to challenge assumptions about twin. the same way that people are more readily challenging other cards from the ban list that previously might have been out of the question. its unfortunate that the same time has also fostered more bitterness, resentment, and some backwards sense of entitlement.
wizards is likely too stubborn to budge. it is what it is.
-------------------------------------------------------------
speaking of power level, I was watching GP prague day 1 coverage. Simon Goertzen(?) made a comment about the power level of the format being particularly high right now. assessing something abstract like power, and for an entire format no less, isnt exactly going be specific or observable all the time; however after thinking about it I have to agree with him.
obviously there have been times where more busted stuff has been going on, but those were more isolated and could be dealt with. if the power creep is more evenly distributed over decks and time, it isnt as noticeable.
not sure if there is a conversation to be had. it was just an observation. decks just seem faster, more resilient, and synergy driven.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
UW is the top deck, being about half again as popular as the next best day 2 pick? That's literally insane. I've played blue in modern in different forms, and the idea that a draw/go control option would be at the top would have been ridiculous in 2016. Burn isn't a total surprise. It is okay against humans if you build correctly, and it actually has a solid matchup against the UW deck in question as well as the tron decks that would prey on control and midrange.
not sure if there is a conversation to be had. it was just an observation. decks just seem faster, more resilient, and synergy driven.
I can comment on the [bold]"more resilient"[/bold] part. Have been a regular lurker at the Jund and Abzan threads because I wanted to pick up ideas for my BG. Anyway, somebody said in those threads that some years ago when Infect was a tier 1 aggro deck, peeking into the infect players hand discard something important, then kill a creature is enough to slow down Infect. Compared to today, thoughtseize one card from Humans or Hollow One decks then kill a creature is often not enough to slow down those decks.
not sure if there is a conversation to be had. it was just an observation. decks just seem faster, more resilient, and synergy driven.
I can comment on the [bold]"more resilient"[/bold] part. Have been a regular lurker at the Jund and Abzan threads because I wanted to pick up ideas for my BG. Anyway, somebody said in those threads that some years ago when Infect was a tier 1 aggro deck, peeking into the infect players hand discard something important, then kill a creature is enough to slow down Infect. Compared to today, thoughtseize one card from Humans or Hollow One decks then kill a creature is often not enough to slow down those decks.
its funny you mention that, because on the GP coverage the commentators briefly discussed how much worse thoughtseize seems nowadays. powerful to be sure, but its definitely lost its sharp edge.
its hard to pin down what is different, but id say decks are just more robust now.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
not sure if there is a conversation to be had. it was just an observation. decks just seem faster, more resilient, and synergy driven.
I can comment on the [bold]"more resilient"[/bold] part. Have been a regular lurker at the Jund and Abzan threads because I wanted to pick up ideas for my BG. Anyway, somebody said in those threads that some years ago when Infect was a tier 1 aggro deck, peeking into the infect players hand discard something important, then kill a creature is enough to slow down Infect. Compared to today, thoughtseize one card from Humans or Hollow One decks then kill a creature is often not enough to slow down those decks.
its funny you mention that, because on the GP coverage the commentators briefly discussed how much worse thoughtseize seems nowadays. powerful to be sure, but its definitely lost its sharp edge.
its hard to pin down what is different, but id say decks are just more robust now.
What it really comes down to is that decks are either redundant enough to not care, or going to the graveyard is simply irrelevant.
Also, surprising to see UW be the most popular deck at GP Prague by far, and 0 copies in the T8. There are 5 Noble Hierarch decks and the lone Jeskai deck is already down a game against KCI. It'll likely clean up the whole tournament if it gets past mono brown misery combo.
seems alright. if im not mistaken this is the first GP top8 with multiple humans.
looks like UW failed to convert. im sure there are plenty in the 9-32 scrum. cant see jeskai making it through to the end unless pairings go in its favor.
from what ive seen of hardened scales; the deck is really good. certainly more impressive than what ive seen of bridgevine. triple MOCS top8 into a GP top8 right after bodes well for the deck. im buying into it being a better deck than affinity.
zero black represented, and limited red. quite the turnaround if you ask me.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
9 Counters company
10 UW control
11 Mardu Pyro
12 UW Control
13 UW Control
14 Hollow One
15 Bridgevine
16 UW Control
17 UW Control
18 UW Control
19 UW Spirits
20 Blue Affinity
21 Hardened Scales
22 UW Control
23 Dredge
24 Jeskai Control
25 Grixis Shadow
26 Humans
27 Grixis Shadow
27 UW Control
29Infect
30 UW Spirits
31 Burn
32 Tron
crazy euros
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Legit question: which advantages does Hardened Scales Affinity has over the regular one? Which matchups that normal Affinity would lose does HS beat?
It's significantly different in play. Doesn't fold to Stony and can grind more -- much better against Mardu, Tron types. Walking Ballista means you're favored against most creature decks. It has the ability to occasionally explode, but can also be sequenced for value. I'm a huge fan of the deck but UW Control is by far its worst match-up.
Legit question: which advantages does Hardened Scales Affinity has over the regular one? Which matchups that normal Affinity would lose does HS beat?
its weird because the deck looks like it handles spot removal and shatter effects better, yet also gets out of control faster when uncontested. its certainly better at blocking/ground control. so my guess would be creature decks not packing much removal, and midrange/control decks.
deck looks to be the real deal. walking ballista continues to go relatively unremarked while being a ridiculous magic card.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
That deck can come back something fierce. I saw multiple games that looked lost and were won out of nowhere due to the sinergies between ravager, sacla eand ballista.
Good thing the nature of the deck makes it not hard to hate.
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Why does it have to be all and/or nothing? I personally don’t care to go to time every round and pick up draws. Especially at fnm’s where it just about kills your prize payouts. Not to mention making everyone there wait forever between rounds. What makes combo kills “free wins”?
i dunno about thoughts of wanting twin to be unbanned being invalidated. maybe some consciously changed their narrative or whatever, but we are talking about something people have desperately wanted back over years now. arguments might shift out of desperation and the shifting context of the format. blue control decks fighting to find a foothold in the format despite obvious attempts from wizards is just one chapter in the story.
time is now a factor. its been long enough that the format has changed continues to grow in power. so its more acceptable to challenge assumptions about twin. the same way that people are more readily challenging other cards from the ban list that previously might have been out of the question. its unfortunate that the same time has also fostered more bitterness, resentment, and some backwards sense of entitlement.
wizards is likely too stubborn to budge. it is what it is.
-------------------------------------------------------------
speaking of power level, I was watching GP prague day 1 coverage. Simon Goertzen(?) made a comment about the power level of the format being particularly high right now. assessing something abstract like power, and for an entire format no less, isnt exactly going be specific or observable all the time; however after thinking about it I have to agree with him.
obviously there have been times where more busted stuff has been going on, but those were more isolated and could be dealt with. if the power creep is more evenly distributed over decks and time, it isnt as noticeable.
not sure if there is a conversation to be had. it was just an observation. decks just seem faster, more resilient, and synergy driven.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I can comment on the [bold]"more resilient"[/bold] part. Have been a regular lurker at the Jund and Abzan threads because I wanted to pick up ideas for my BG. Anyway, somebody said in those threads that some years ago when Infect was a tier 1 aggro deck, peeking into the infect players hand discard something important, then kill a creature is enough to slow down Infect. Compared to today, thoughtseize one card from Humans or Hollow One decks then kill a creature is often not enough to slow down those decks.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
its funny you mention that, because on the GP coverage the commentators briefly discussed how much worse thoughtseize seems nowadays. powerful to be sure, but its definitely lost its sharp edge.
its hard to pin down what is different, but id say decks are just more robust now.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)2 Bant Spirits
2 Humans
1 Jeskai
1 KCI
1 Hardened Scales Affinity
1 Infect
What it really comes down to is that decks are either redundant enough to not care, or going to the graveyard is simply irrelevant.
Also, surprising to see UW be the most popular deck at GP Prague by far, and 0 copies in the T8. There are 5 Noble Hierarch decks and the lone Jeskai deck is already down a game against KCI. It'll likely clean up the whole tournament if it gets past mono brown misery combo.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
seems alright. if im not mistaken this is the first GP top8 with multiple humans.
looks like UW failed to convert. im sure there are plenty in the 9-32 scrum. cant see jeskai making it through to the end unless pairings go in its favor.
from what ive seen of hardened scales; the deck is really good. certainly more impressive than what ive seen of bridgevine. triple MOCS top8 into a GP top8 right after bodes well for the deck. im buying into it being a better deck than affinity.
zero black represented, and limited red. quite the turnaround if you ask me.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UWR sneaking into the top 8. That deck just wont go away.
Spirits
KCI
Hardened Scales Affinity
Bant Spirits
Humans
Great day for Ancient Stirrings and Noble Hierarch.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
just scrolling through the twitter feed and eyeballing the standings there are at least 4 UW decks in the top 32, with upwards of 6-7.
i wouldnt be surprised if javier dominguez mowed through a few on his way to the top 8. i like jeskai in that matchup.
spirits and hardened scales picking up isnt good for jeskai though. just 2 more decks that skate through spot removal.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gppra18/9-32-decklists-2018-08-26
here is a text list
9 Counters company
10 UW control
11 Mardu Pyro
12 UW Control
13 UW Control
14 Hollow One
15 Bridgevine
16 UW Control
17 UW Control
18 UW Control
19 UW Spirits
20 Blue Affinity
21 Hardened Scales
22 UW Control
23 Dredge
24 Jeskai Control
25 Grixis Shadow
26 Humans
27 Grixis Shadow
27 UW Control
29Infect
30 UW Spirits
31 Burn
32 Tron
crazy euros
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Bow to your Jace and Teferi overlords.
Spirits
It's significantly different in play. Doesn't fold to Stony and can grind more -- much better against Mardu, Tron types. Walking Ballista means you're favored against most creature decks. It has the ability to occasionally explode, but can also be sequenced for value. I'm a huge fan of the deck but UW Control is by far its worst match-up.
its weird because the deck looks like it handles spot removal and shatter effects better, yet also gets out of control faster when uncontested. its certainly better at blocking/ground control. so my guess would be creature decks not packing much removal, and midrange/control decks.
deck looks to be the real deal. walking ballista continues to go relatively unremarked while being a ridiculous magic card.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
you been grinding lately? what has the UW presence online looked like?
my guess is that the results have a little to do with some groupthink. pros deciding a deck is good is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.
UW is good, but its not THAT good.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Case in point, did it Top 8 with all those decks?
Nope.
Spirits
That deck can come back something fierce. I saw multiple games that looked lost and were won out of nowhere due to the sinergies between ravager, sacla eand ballista.
Good thing the nature of the deck makes it not hard to hate.