I knew a few weeks ago (maybe a week?) That the meta for MTGO was favourable to UWR tuned to blow up creatures. This day 2 is exactly what I envisioned could happen and not just the SCG UWR bias.
I had 3 games yesterday, Affinity, Goblins, and Humans, (2-0, 2-1, 2-1) and the post board games are just were not close. Removal for days, I don't care how I'll win, but all your filthy creatures are going to get bolted.
Blue Moon being so dependent on Moon just kills it for me, everyone can answer it.
I wouldn't call Blue Moon overrated, because almost no one is actually saying it's particularly good or well-positioned. I personally enjoy it much more than "do nothing" Jeskai, even if that deck may be "better." I'd start playing it again once it can be played with a reasonable proactive clock (like Geist/Delver/etc). Breach Moon at least has the "win out of nowhere" aspect.
Blue Moon is unquestionably the Ux deck with the best current competitive pedigree. I've explained this is in a number of recent posts. I guarantee we wouldn't be having this debate if it hadn't missed the GP T8 by fractions on breakers. It has GP, SCG, and MTGO success. If there was any I'd deck to iterate on, it's this one. I also think UW is much more viable than people give credit but that's more hunch-based than data-driven.
Blue Moon is unquestionably the Ux deck with the best current competitive pedigree. I've explained this is in a number of recent posts. I guarantee we wouldn't be having this debate if it hadn't missed the GP T8 by fractions on breakers. It has GP, SCG, and MTGO success. If there was any I'd deck to iterate on, it's this one. I also think UW is much more viable than people give credit but that's more hunch-based than data-driven.
So, someone(with stats) is actually saying Blue Moon is particularly good and/or well positioned.
My humble opinion, Sheridan, is that this effect regarding Blue Moon will wear off and the archetype will stop having results, as it has serious problems.
Jeskai is a better shell overall, I feel like.
To be clear, Jeskai might be a better deck. But Blue Moon has better results right now. I haven't played either deck since 2017 so I don't really know from my own experience.
Blue Moon is unquestionably the Ux deck with the best current competitive pedigree. I've explained this is in a number of recent posts. I guarantee we wouldn't be having this debate if it hadn't missed the GP T8 by fractions on breakers. It has GP, SCG, and MTGO success. If there was any I'd deck to iterate on, it's this one. I also think UW is much more viable than people give credit but that's more hunch-based than data-driven.
So, someone(with stats) is actually saying Blue Moon is particularly good and/or well positioned.
My humble opinion, Sheridan, is that this effect regarding Blue Moon will wear off and the archetype will stop having results, as it has serious problems.
Jeskai is a better shell overall, I feel like.
To be clear, Jeskai might be a better deck. But Blue Moon has better results right now. I haven't played either deck since 2017 so I don't really know from my own experience.
Have you aggregated these results? I don't remember it being much more than a blip for most of the past year.
You also cite MTGO, which is not just worthless when it comes to data, it's actively skewed and misleading.
Mardu takes it, guy went undefeated to the Top 8, and didnt drop a GAME in the top 8.
As showcased in the PT and during various GP's, and as we told some times here already, it's fair to say that this deck to be the best fair deck at the moment in Modern.
1 win doesn't mean much overall. Humans is still the most played and probably most winning fair deck.
Marshall Arthurs list was also pretty unorthodox which surely earned him some wins over the tournament. basic plains, 3 bloodmoons main, and 3 bridges in the side. his sideboard in general is spicy. most of his deck is foiled out, so its safe to assume he wasnt just jamming the deck on a whim. kudos to him.
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The 3x Blood Moon seems pretty smart, I like it, even though the card is an abomination and I hate it. Why not abuse it if your deck can take advantage? The 1x in most Mardu lists always seemed a bit weird
Mardu takes it, guy went undefeated to the Top 8, and didnt drop a GAME in the top 8.
As showcased in the PT and during various GP's, and as we told some times here already, it's fair to say that this deck to be the best fair deck at the moment in Modern.
1 win doesn't mean much overall. Humans is still the most played and probably most winning fair deck.
I agree that Humans is the best "fair deck," but Mardu Reveler is the best Jund deck right now. I just got back right now from 2 long tournaments this weekend, so I saw no coverage yet, but I am not surprised to see Mardu Reveler take it down.
Time to bust out the Tron?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Mardu takes it, guy went undefeated to the Top 8, and didnt drop a GAME in the top 8.
As showcased in the PT and during various GP's, and as we told some times here already, it's fair to say that this deck to be the best fair deck at the moment in Modern.
1 win doesn't mean much overall. Humans is still the most played and probably most winning fair deck.
I agree that Humans is the best "fair deck," but Mardu Reveler is the best Jund deck right now. I just got back right now from 2 long tournaments this weekend, so I saw no coverage yet, but I am not surprised to see Mardu Reveler take it down.
Time to bust out the Tron?
I fully expect enough Tron to ruin things at Vegas.
As to this Mardu deck, this guy didnt just win, he was running insane to go undefeated and THEN not drop a game in top 8.
Mardu takes it, guy went undefeated to the Top 8, and didnt drop a GAME in the top 8.
As showcased in the PT and during various GP's, and as we told some times here already, it's fair to say that this deck to be the best fair deck at the moment in Modern.
1 win doesn't mean much overall. Humans is still the most played and probably most winning fair deck.
I agree that Humans is the best "fair deck," but Mardu Reveler is the best Jund deck right now. I just got back right now from 2 long tournaments this weekend, so I saw no coverage yet, but I am not surprised to see Mardu Reveler take it down.
Time to bust out the Tron?
I fully expect enough Tron to ruin things at Vegas.
As to this Mardu deck, this guy didnt just win, he was running insane to go undefeated and THEN not drop a game in top 8.
I hope they try. Most of the decks I play do very well against Tron, except well, when they don't do anything at all, lol.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think its funny there was no tron at all in the Open, and 3 Top 8 in the Classic, while UWR only had 2 in the Top 16 in the Classic.
I dont know, its essentially exactly how I hoped it would go. Aggro identified as the 'thing to do' with UWR sweeping in and blowing up things, while Tron goes and just doesnt exist...:p
im just glad ponza fell off the map. tron will be back. deck is way too powerful to be sidelined for long.
either way i wouldnt be surprised if things look drastically different at SCG minneapolis next weekend. not so much because people adjust, but because that is just how modern is.
edit: just saw the results of the mgto challenge. definitely did a double take at the winning list. some all-in vizier combo with a full set of both green and blue pacts. everyone else is on level 2 or 3, while this guy is on level 50.
I think its funny there was no tron at all in the Open, and 3 Top 8 in the Classic...
There was 1 RG Tron in top 32 of the Open. If you add up all the variants (5 RG, 3 Mono G, 1 BG) it was actually the 4th most represented deck on day 2. Just had a terrible conversion rate from there, which is pretty surprising because obviously that meta looked pretty solid for it. But I also think RG is a trap and people might be losing more because of that.
Now that we just had 2 Jeskai in the Top 8 and more in the to 16 and a great day 2 presence, are people still going to ask for blue cards unbanned?
Or will they dismiss it again, as a random outlier of an event or as a SCG event that we don't want to take notice of and still claim that X card must be unbanned, because blue is bad regarding it's GP presence?
If we get a top 32 like that at the next few big events SCG and GP then leave well alone. But as always one event doesn't make a format or mean anything should be banned or unbanned.
There was a similar event last year when the meta decided en mass to play deaths shadow. It's the picture over months worth of events we need before complaining about anything. (obvious exception treasure cruise and eldrazi winter)
a single tournament shouldnt be changing anyones opinion on the format. jeskai control was good but not great before, and its still good but not great now. it did, however, take teferi coming into the picture for players to realize that jamming multiple copies of jace, the garbage sculptor wasnt a good look.
imo the tendency for onlookers to flip flop around is one of the largest faults in the mtg community. for instance humans starts performing well and suddenly people are calling it the 'new jund' (or liken it to twin), which is absurd when you compare humans to what jund was doing in its prime. likewise bbe gets unbanned and jund is the default best deck for the better part of two months, and now is categorized as tier 2; with nothing changing in between.
all of this reinforces the idea that jumping ship on a deck because you dont see it in the standings or hopping on the bandwagon for the decks that do is just not how most players should approach the format.
i still dont think preordain would be unbanned, but i also still think its power level and likely effect on the format would be well within acceptable limits. for some that is reason enough for it to see the light of day. the same goes for stoneforge.
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Well how good was Jeskai before THOD? Before JTMS?
Might be a short term spike will see if Teferi can sustain this charge for Jeskai but he seems to have done more for the deck then Jace has over a shorter period of time I should note.
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I had 3 games yesterday, Affinity, Goblins, and Humans, (2-0, 2-1, 2-1) and the post board games are just were not close. Removal for days, I don't care how I'll win, but all your filthy creatures are going to get bolted.
Blue Moon being so dependent on Moon just kills it for me, everyone can answer it.
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
Jund rolllllllllllling this game. Value Town lost to Storm in the other win and in. (Good, I hate Value Town).
Spirits
Top 8 Speculation
Storm
Jund
Mardu
Humans
Bogles
???
???
???
Spirits
To be clear, Jeskai might be a better deck. But Blue Moon has better results right now. I haven't played either deck since 2017 so I don't really know from my own experience.
Have you aggregated these results? I don't remember it being much more than a blip for most of the past year.
You also cite MTGO, which is not just worthless when it comes to data, it's actively skewed and misleading.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
That's a fairly beautiful Top8. If only we saw this at any GP; especially with Vegas just around the corner.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Very nice, I had feared UWR failed to convert.
EDITS to remove Double Posts:
Mardu running over Bogles with a million tokens (and a Moon/Bridge lock lol)
UWR Control a game up over UWR Geist/Queller
EDIT: Top 32
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/results/format/28/event_ID/47/start_date/19-05-2018/end_date/20-05-2018/city/Louisville/start/1/finish/32/w_perc/0/g_perc/0/r_perc/0/b_perc/0/u_perc/0/a_perc/0/order_1/finish/limit/100/start_num/0/
Spirits
Spirits
1 win doesn't mean much overall. Humans is still the most played and probably most winning fair deck.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I agree that Humans is the best "fair deck," but Mardu Reveler is the best Jund deck right now. I just got back right now from 2 long tournaments this weekend, so I saw no coverage yet, but I am not surprised to see Mardu Reveler take it down.
Time to bust out the Tron?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I fully expect enough Tron to ruin things at Vegas.
As to this Mardu deck, this guy didnt just win, he was running insane to go undefeated and THEN not drop a game in top 8.
Spirits
I hope they try. Most of the decks I play do very well against Tron, except well, when they don't do anything at all, lol.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I dont know, its essentially exactly how I hoped it would go. Aggro identified as the 'thing to do' with UWR sweeping in and blowing up things, while Tron goes and just doesnt exist...:p
Spirits
either way i wouldnt be surprised if things look drastically different at SCG minneapolis next weekend. not so much because people adjust, but because that is just how modern is.
edit: just saw the results of the mgto challenge. definitely did a double take at the winning list. some all-in vizier combo with a full set of both green and blue pacts. everyone else is on level 2 or 3, while this guy is on level 50.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)If we get a top 32 like that at the next few big events SCG and GP then leave well alone. But as always one event doesn't make a format or mean anything should be banned or unbanned.
There was a similar event last year when the meta decided en mass to play deaths shadow. It's the picture over months worth of events we need before complaining about anything. (obvious exception treasure cruise and eldrazi winter)
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
imo the tendency for onlookers to flip flop around is one of the largest faults in the mtg community. for instance humans starts performing well and suddenly people are calling it the 'new jund' (or liken it to twin), which is absurd when you compare humans to what jund was doing in its prime. likewise bbe gets unbanned and jund is the default best deck for the better part of two months, and now is categorized as tier 2; with nothing changing in between.
all of this reinforces the idea that jumping ship on a deck because you dont see it in the standings or hopping on the bandwagon for the decks that do is just not how most players should approach the format.
i still dont think preordain would be unbanned, but i also still think its power level and likely effect on the format would be well within acceptable limits. for some that is reason enough for it to see the light of day. the same goes for stoneforge.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Might be a short term spike will see if Teferi can sustain this charge for Jeskai but he seems to have done more for the deck then Jace has over a shorter period of time I should note.