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I think everyone (or mostly everyone) is on the SFM unban train. It's just such a well-supported unban idea at this point that I feel like posters aren't bothering to actively argue for it, cobsidering it a mostly foregone conclusion. As you said, the urban should have happened at least 1-2 years ago, and its banlist status is even more ridiculous now than it was back then. I also don't think Wizards unbans anything in 2018 unless the GP Vegas scene is packed with diverse aggro decks with little in the way of slower options. If that happens, we could see a mid-year unban. If not, it looks like a 2019 target.
Agree with the reasoning, but cannot help to find funny that an artifact that would only get better with each creature printed (hence placing a constraint on creature design) was not ok, but a creature that only gets better with each equipment printed (hence placing a constraint on equipment design) is ok.
It's up there with 'unban a red sorcery to help blue' is terrible, but 'unban a white tutor to help blue' is ok.
Also, anyone who played blue stew in legacy can tell you guys that unbanning preordain will not do an iota to help blue control.
who says or said this? SFM is getting the head nod from most people as an unban candidate because of reasons completely unrelated to the performance of blue reactive decks in the format, perceived or otherwise.
i also think the swords are an open question for SFM in modern.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I really don't know what's the fuzz about unbans. Do people really believe something is going to get unbanned this year? No, it isn't.
SFM? Sure, it will be next year's unban. This really is set in stone. Nothing else is getting unbanned(even if most of us would love Preordain)
I would say any fix or help to W and U is most likely coming in new cards kinda like how Teferi is seemingly helping Jeskai.
Just hope the help is at the bottom of the mana curve.
I think Jeskai is in a really good spot right now honestly. The only thing I think it needs is better counter magic. This isn't legacy. This format doesn't need Wasteland, Preordain, Force of Will or Daze. Some of these would either help other decks more than control or would actively hurt control.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Yes, that seems to be what everyone says - U is neutered like I said. I really hope that WOTC gives U at least one of the following in the next year or so.
Unban Ponder and/or Preordain
Make Counterspell legal by printing it in the next Modern legal set
Add much stronger creatures lower CMC (4 or less) creatures
Hopefully the powers that be at WOTC wake up and give us one of these things soon.
We're not going to see Counterspell anytime soon. The problem isn't really Counterspell, but Counterspell in addition to the other counterspells that are, although not that impressive by Modern's standards, decent in Standard. If they plan to return Counterspell to Standard, it will be in a Standard where the rest of the counterspells are worse than the ones that are in Standard right now, and it'll take a while to set that up.
Alternatively, they could go hard on "can't be countered" effects (Cavern of Souls desperately needs a reprinting anyway), I suppose.
Jace was supposed to be the scariest, most broken card ever printed. It's released into Modern and falls flat on its face. A lot of our assumptions about what is "broken" and "overpowered" are usually horrendously wrong and there are plenty of other things on the banned list that have no business being there. The only reason not to unban more things is to "save" them as a "reward" in the future. So while we may agree that Wizards probably won't unban anything in the short term, it's not because they shouldn't.
not sure what they are rewarding people for. cards will be unbanned if and when wizards thinks their inclusion in the format will ultimately beneficial. the only equity in the timing of the unbannings is to keep major competitive events interesting or to capitalize on major reprintings.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
not sure what they are rewarding people for. cards will be unbanned if and when wizards thinks their inclusion in the format will ultimately beneficial. the only equity in the timing of the unbannings is to keep major competitive events interesting or to capitalize on major reprintings.
Maybe "reward" isn't the best term. While most of the unbans have been a bunch of mostlyunplayable or massivelyunderwhelming cards, they certainly feel like apologies and olive branches. AV and SOTM as an apology for banning Twin and ruining Modern with Eldrazi, and Jace/BBE as an apology for new cards breaking linear decks for two years.
They don't do what's best for the format, they do what's best for their image. Sometimes those two things coincide, sometimes they don't. But they always seem to hype up unbans as some gift to the players; a gift that they save for maximum image impact.
...
I think everyone (or mostly everyone) is on the SFM unban train. It's just such a well-supported unban idea at this point that I feel like posters aren't bothering to actively argue for it, cobsidering it a mostly foregone conclusion. As you said, the urban should have happened at least 1-2 years ago, and its banlist status is even more ridiculous now than it was back then. I also don't think Wizards unbans anything in 2018 unless the GP Vegas scene is packed with diverse aggro decks with little in the way of slower options. If that happens, we could see a mid-year unban. If not, it looks like a 2019 target.
Agree with the reasoning, but cannot help to find funny that an artifact that would only get better with each creature printed (hence placing a constraint on creature design) was not ok, but a creature that only gets better with each equipment printed (hence placing a constraint on equipment design) is ok.
It's up there with 'unban a red sorcery to help blue' is terrible, but 'unban a white tutor to help blue' is ok.
Also, anyone who played blue stew in legacy can tell you guys that unbanning preordain will not do an iota to help blue control.
But when you look at Pod vs SFM, you have to look at it in the context of what Wizards actually does. They print good creatures in every single set. When was the last good Equipment? SFM would mean that they can't print super powerful Equipment, but that's fine because they already refuse to. if they would so much as finish the Sword cycle, we would have to look at it again. it's like worrying about how something would interact with actual good white cards, it's a moot point.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
been hearing this probably too much for me to ignore at this point, a bunch of people are saying that modern right nwo rewards you for playing a linear, less interactive deck more so than playing control decks, which leads me to a question.
I've pretty much been playing URx control/tempoish decks since I've been playing modern (mostly Grixis variants,I had a bit of local success with GDS and control early last year and won a GPT late 2016 with Jeskai Nahiri), so I'd like to think I'm okay at those types of decks. Currently on blue moon and finding it's reasonable. I really love casting JTMS and LOTV
But I also have a rough dredge list together but I have no clue really how to play the deck. On the one hand, modern can really reward getting the reps in and playing what you know. but on the oter hand, people are saying linear decks are the place to be right now
The other point there is that Dredge is basically seen as a bad Hollow One deck right now. So if you want to joint team linear and put the reps in, I'd pickup whatever you don't have for Hollow One and run that.
Yeah it's not a fair comparison between "every creature with an EtB effect" and "every equipment without even cheating the equip cost". Living Weapon is already a quite special case. Any card like Batterskull is going to be rare enough it's not necessary to take it into account to justify SFM's ban.
Hell, unban Stoneforge Mystic already so we can return to this conversation about control never being good by June 15th.
Dig through time
Mental mistep (as non Phyrexian mana, maybe)
Ponder
Treasure cruise
All on the Bannlist, all better than preordain for Blue control, yet everyone wants it unbanned. I don't understand, but maybe i'm to new to understand.
For me it seems Black is better at Control than Blue.(even getting information on enemys hand)
SFM would maybe help WU, but not Blue. Only real reason to splash Blue is for Snapcaster, thats it.
All of those cards have potential problems if unbanned except preordain. Dig Through Time is something I think could be interesting, but if Preordain is unbanned then it would be good to give the format time to shape. Mental Misstep reprint without Phrexian mana could be cool but Im not sure if if would be played much or help control decks. Mental Mistep in its current state is one of those cards that have a 100% chance of never being unbanned imo.
Jeskai Control is not in a bad spot whatsoever and I think its a really good deck if we are talking about blue decks in the current meta. Preordain would be a good thing for them. SFM would probably help Jeskai, and Snapcaster is not the only reason to "splash" Blue in that deck, but Im not sure if you meant Jeskai Control or not when you said that. If you are in the camp that thinks that Grixis Control is better than Jeskai then I think you are mistaken. Black is a good color in modern but when it comes to Control, Jeskai is still King
This article seems word for word what I would say, outside of the mention of Grixis Shadow. I'm not totally sure why he mentioned that one, especially when it has a poor matchup vs. the 3 decks.
Cliffnotes: How to beat Humans, and to a lesser extent, Hollow One and Humans. Jeskai is a good choice. (We'll see. I'm actually about 50/50 to try it tonight, the other 50% to play GW Company.)
*As a sidenote, IdSurge, what would be the strategy to beat Grixis Control? We have a Grixis Control specialist at our store and I'm not quite sure how to approach the matchup. It seems Kologhan's Command is a big trump in the matchup. Perhaps, try to make sure that none of those resolve?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I havent played against Grixis in some time, but the last I did it was a bit of a beating I took as they were on the hard mana denial build, with Seas, Field of Ruin, and Fulminators. Really hard to out value, and if they are able to disrupt your mana you are in for a beat down.
I feel better as the aggressor, as they have less card advantage, but if they can start chaining out K-Commands it will be an issue. Search is huge, but dont blind let it flip because there is nothing you can do about Field of Ruin, while they have huge issue with dealing with Enchantments.
UWR right now for most people are really soft to GY strategies, so its not a great match up. If you bring in RIP though, then life is good.
Looking at the meta on MTGGoldfish, I'm really comfortable with UWR's position right now though.
The version he has has 4 Field of Ruin, 0 Spreading Seas, and probably 3 Fulminator Mage in the SB. It will be interesting to say the least. I am wondering how I find a win-con or is it more about draining resources, then landing Teferi and winning?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Naya Titan shift is weird. I've never played it but it just seems too janky, plus only 3 Valakut is very strange. If you look at the most successful Valakut decks, its GR and its not even close
I don't think Death's Shadow is a good choice for the meta, but I do think that the other two, Jeskai Control and Mardu Pyro, are both good decks. Death's Shadow is a good deck, but I dont think its that great in this meta
Thats a big reason I run 2 collonade instead of the 3 most people run. Land kill is everywhere.
I would prioritize getting Search down of course, but dont flip it, hold up path for his own man-lands, and fight over K-Commands and Fulminators. If you are on the 3 Helix that can help and then burn him out.
Depending on if they are creature light or not, they are going to depend on those K-Command chains and Snaps to finish the game out.
Naya Titan shift is weird. I've never played it but it just seems too janky, plus only 3 Valakut is very strange. If you look at the most successful Valakut decks, its GR and its not even close
I don't think Death's Shadow is a good choice for the meta, but I do think that the other two, Jeskai Control and Mardu Pyro, are both good decks. Death's Shadow is a good deck, but I dont think its that great in this meta
I've felt this way before as well, but I actually now believe that the deck has/had legs. I have a friend and local grinder that had Naya Shift for the longest time and it was the deck that he grinded with. Nahiri, the Harbinger gives something that RG never had. It gives outs to certain cards that we literally have only Reclamation Sage for main board (with 2 Summoner's Pact of course, but a 1 time effect). I would say that during PPTQ season, he did at least as good as me, and I have yet to not win a PPTQ during a Modern season. He plays very well, but occasionally stumbles, so I think the deck sometimes carries one through those minor misplays (although not paying for a Leonin Arbiter before searching in the top 4 surely hurt him pretty badly).
He now is selling because Expeditions and Masterpieces have spiked quite a bit. You could probably find his for sale posts on FB, but he is finally moving on from the deck, although I do think he is going to buy it non foil some time soon.
*I should say that I personally have no experience with the deck and I prefer RG because of the simpler mana base, but I would not doubt his Naya Titanshift for a moment, considering his results.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Naya Titan shift is weird. I've never played it but it just seems too janky, plus only 3 Valakut is very strange. If you look at the most successful Valakut decks, its GR and its not even close
I don't think Death's Shadow is a good choice for the meta, but I do think that the other two, Jeskai Control and Mardu Pyro, are both good decks. Death's Shadow is a good deck, but I dont think its that great in this meta
I've felt this way before as well, but I actually now believe that the deck has/had legs. I have a friend and local grinder that had Naya Shift for the longest time and it was the deck that he grinded with. Nahiri, the Harbinger gives something that RG never had. It gives outs to certain cards that we literally have only Reclamation Sage for main board (with 2 Summoner's Pact of course, but a 1 time effect). I would say that during PPTQ season, he did at least as good as me, and I have yet to not win a PPTQ during a Modern season. He plays very well, but occasionally stumbles, so I think the deck sometimes carries one through those minor misplays (although not paying for a Leonin Arbiter before searching in the top 4 surely hurt him pretty badly).
He now is selling because Expeditions and Masterpieces have spiked quite a bit. You could probably find his for sale posts on FB, but he is finally moving on from the deck, although I do think he is going to buy it non foil some time soon.
*I should say that I personally have no experience with the deck and I prefer RG because of the simpler mana base, but I would not doubt his Naya Titanshift for a moment, considering his results.
I believe you. The thing about that deck is that it looks to have higher highs and lower lows than regular RG Titanshift. So in the long run it can in theory have a similar or even higher win percentage than the RG version
I'm like 99% sure it's Felidar Guardian Untapping pod at 4 is too much.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
who says or said this? SFM is getting the head nod from most people as an unban candidate because of reasons completely unrelated to the performance of blue reactive decks in the format, perceived or otherwise.
i also think the swords are an open question for SFM in modern.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)If the Swords go from "unplayable trash" to "another cool and powerful option" I think that's a move forward.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I would say any fix or help to W and U is most likely coming in new cards kinda like how Teferi is seemingly helping Jeskai.
Just hope the help is at the bottom of the mana curve.
Alternatively, they could go hard on "can't be countered" effects (Cavern of Souls desperately needs a reprinting anyway), I suppose.
Jace was supposed to be the scariest, most broken card ever printed. It's released into Modern and falls flat on its face. A lot of our assumptions about what is "broken" and "overpowered" are usually horrendously wrong and there are plenty of other things on the banned list that have no business being there. The only reason not to unban more things is to "save" them as a "reward" in the future. So while we may agree that Wizards probably won't unban anything in the short term, it's not because they shouldn't.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Everyone that said Jace was going to be too good? Easily ignored at this point.
That humorously means pretty much ever SCG grinder and writer.
'jace has a grave' welcome to my ignore list.
Spirits
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Maybe "reward" isn't the best term. While most of the unbans have been a bunch of mostly unplayable or massively underwhelming cards, they certainly feel like apologies and olive branches. AV and SOTM as an apology for banning Twin and ruining Modern with Eldrazi, and Jace/BBE as an apology for new cards breaking linear decks for two years.
They don't do what's best for the format, they do what's best for their image. Sometimes those two things coincide, sometimes they don't. But they always seem to hype up unbans as some gift to the players; a gift that they save for maximum image impact.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
Which will never happen without less specific counters and viable board wipes. Unless one deck or a few gobble(s) up a ridiculous meta share.
But when you look at Pod vs SFM, you have to look at it in the context of what Wizards actually does. They print good creatures in every single set. When was the last good Equipment? SFM would mean that they can't print super powerful Equipment, but that's fine because they already refuse to. if they would so much as finish the Sword cycle, we would have to look at it again. it's like worrying about how something would interact with actual good white cards, it's a moot point.
I've pretty much been playing URx control/tempoish decks since I've been playing modern (mostly Grixis variants,I had a bit of local success with GDS and control early last year and won a GPT late 2016 with Jeskai Nahiri), so I'd like to think I'm okay at those types of decks. Currently on blue moon and finding it's reasonable. I really love casting JTMS and LOTV
But I also have a rough dredge list together but I have no clue really how to play the deck. On the one hand, modern can really reward getting the reps in and playing what you know. but on the oter hand, people are saying linear decks are the place to be right now
what's the best call?
The other point there is that Dredge is basically seen as a bad Hollow One deck right now. So if you want to joint team linear and put the reps in, I'd pickup whatever you don't have for Hollow One and run that.
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
Hell, unban Stoneforge Mystic already so we can return to this conversation about control never being good by June 15th.
All of those cards have potential problems if unbanned except preordain. Dig Through Time is something I think could be interesting, but if Preordain is unbanned then it would be good to give the format time to shape. Mental Misstep reprint without Phrexian mana could be cool but Im not sure if if would be played much or help control decks. Mental Mistep in its current state is one of those cards that have a 100% chance of never being unbanned imo.
Jeskai Control is not in a bad spot whatsoever and I think its a really good deck if we are talking about blue decks in the current meta. Preordain would be a good thing for them. SFM would probably help Jeskai, and Snapcaster is not the only reason to "splash" Blue in that deck, but Im not sure if you meant Jeskai Control or not when you said that. If you are in the camp that thinks that Grixis Control is better than Jeskai then I think you are mistaken. Black is a good color in modern but when it comes to Control, Jeskai is still King
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Spirits
http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37114_Beating-Humans-At-SCG-Louisville.html
Cliffnotes: How to beat Humans, and to a lesser extent, Hollow One and Humans. Jeskai is a good choice. (We'll see. I'm actually about 50/50 to try it tonight, the other 50% to play GW Company.)
*As a sidenote, IdSurge, what would be the strategy to beat Grixis Control? We have a Grixis Control specialist at our store and I'm not quite sure how to approach the matchup. It seems Kologhan's Command is a big trump in the matchup. Perhaps, try to make sure that none of those resolve?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I feel better as the aggressor, as they have less card advantage, but if they can start chaining out K-Commands it will be an issue. Search is huge, but dont blind let it flip because there is nothing you can do about Field of Ruin, while they have huge issue with dealing with Enchantments.
UWR right now for most people are really soft to GY strategies, so its not a great match up. If you bring in RIP though, then life is good.
Looking at the meta on MTGGoldfish, I'm really comfortable with UWR's position right now though.
Spirits
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I don't think Death's Shadow is a good choice for the meta, but I do think that the other two, Jeskai Control and Mardu Pyro, are both good decks. Death's Shadow is a good deck, but I dont think its that great in this meta
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
I would prioritize getting Search down of course, but dont flip it, hold up path for his own man-lands, and fight over K-Commands and Fulminators. If you are on the 3 Helix that can help and then burn him out.
Depending on if they are creature light or not, they are going to depend on those K-Command chains and Snaps to finish the game out.
Secure the Wastes can be a big deal for you.
Spirits
I've felt this way before as well, but I actually now believe that the deck has/had legs. I have a friend and local grinder that had Naya Shift for the longest time and it was the deck that he grinded with. Nahiri, the Harbinger gives something that RG never had. It gives outs to certain cards that we literally have only Reclamation Sage for main board (with 2 Summoner's Pact of course, but a 1 time effect). I would say that during PPTQ season, he did at least as good as me, and I have yet to not win a PPTQ during a Modern season. He plays very well, but occasionally stumbles, so I think the deck sometimes carries one through those minor misplays (although not paying for a Leonin Arbiter before searching in the top 4 surely hurt him pretty badly).
He now is selling because Expeditions and Masterpieces have spiked quite a bit. You could probably find his for sale posts on FB, but he is finally moving on from the deck, although I do think he is going to buy it non foil some time soon.
*I should say that I personally have no experience with the deck and I prefer RG because of the simpler mana base, but I would not doubt his Naya Titanshift for a moment, considering his results.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I believe you. The thing about that deck is that it looks to have higher highs and lower lows than regular RG Titanshift. So in the long run it can in theory have a similar or even higher win percentage than the RG version
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]