I can't believe how incredibly wrong I was. At this point, I don't have many reservations on SFM existing WITH Jace. White kinda sucks and could use a super power for themselves.
Modern looks great overall, I was mainly just wanting people's perspectives on blue decks.
On a person level, do you guys feel better losing to a Jund deck or a Shadow deck? I'm pretty amazed how tiny the Shadow meta shrunk, even with Jace underperforming a little.
I'm relieved that modern was a strong enough format to handle BBE and Jace, all those articles about WOTC's recent unbanning look sillier and sillier as the weeks pass by.
I can't believe how incredibly wrong I was. At this point, I don't have many reservations on SFM existing WITH Jace. White kinda sucks and could use a super power for themselves.
Modern looks great overall, I was mainly just wanting people's perspectives on blue decks.
On a person level, do you guys feel better losing to a Jund deck or a Shadow deck? I'm pretty amazed how tiny the Shadow meta shrunk, even with Jace underperforming a little.
I'm relieved that modern was a strong enough format to handle BBE and Jace, all those articles about WOTC's recent unbanning look sillier and sillier as the weeks pass by.
It takes a man to admit it. Most others won't admit it and will even deny that they said anything. I always try to admit when I've been wrong in the past. I underestimated BBE and overestimated Jace, but I was fairly close on both.
Regarding Sowing Salt, it DID see some SB play. I ran 2 in my RG Breach deck; they are best off in a deck that always has 4 mana on turn 3. For other decks, yep, they're just too slow. Sowing Salt on someone's Tron land the turn after the cast Karn Liberated does very little usually.
I've had some sort of a mini-revelation recently, a Brennan DeCandio sized revelation. I had run into some variance in the past 3 months and probably won very close to only 50% of my Modern matches. So, I decided to STOP variance and run Grixis Shadow. Since running it (and certainly not making the best plays, but making solid ones so far), I have been 2-1-1, 3-1, and 4-0 with it. It is not that spectacular, but compared to my win percentage recently (I got destroyed by a Mardu Reveler player, who in his next match, double blocked a Goyf with two 1/1 Elemental tokens and a Scooze with a 1/1 and a Reveler, only to see the Scooze eat a single creature and he lost his board), it's pretty solid. I'm happy with GDS so far, but then I do also remember trying Affinity recently and starting off 11-0 in my first 11 matches. Also, I have to admit that GDS is not as boring as I thought it to be.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
GDS is fun, and difficult to pilot. So many lines of play, decisions like shocking yourself on turn 2 matter so much in that deck 8 turns later.
I'm kind of in a slump at my FNM, going 2-2 a lot lately. Outside of the Philly Classic and a making top 8 at a 1K, I've been performing pretty poorly, and with my own deck (Jund) on top of it.
Modern is great though, even if I'm personally doing crappy right now.
I can't believe how incredibly wrong I was. At this point, I don't have many reservations on SFM existing WITH Jace. White kinda sucks and could use a super power for themselves.
Modern looks great overall, I was mainly just wanting people's perspectives on blue decks.
On a person level, do you guys feel better losing to a Jund deck or a Shadow deck? I'm pretty amazed how tiny the Shadow meta shrunk, even with Jace underperforming a little.
I'm relieved that modern was a strong enough format to handle BBE and Jace, all those articles about WOTC's recent unbanning look sillier and sillier as the weeks pass by.
I'd rather be Junded out, than look at the stupidity of a 5/5 for B, but as you know I'm of the old school 'bring back the pillars' mindset. Not that I dislike GDS as a deck, I just prefer Jund being around, instead of the very greedy GDS/4C Pyro/Traverse with Stubborn type decks.
GDS does seem to be a deck where if you could play it tight enough, you are in a good place.
How good are the 4c pyro decks? I find it interesting that running 1 architects of will is somehow optimal, or at least good enough for 2 tier 3 top8s.
Also, regarding the speculation, it was really surprising how hard it was to get people to understand why BBE is not similar to CoCo/ would probably be quite a large upgrade. I think I overestimated Jace slightly; it seems like a marginal upgrade, whereas I thought it would be sort of a centralizing theme for blue.
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
How good are the 4c pyro decks? I find it interesting that running 1 architects of will is somehow optimal, or at least good enough for 2 tier 3 top8s.
Also, regarding the speculation, it was really surprising how hard it was to get people to understand why BBE is not similar to CoCo/ would probably be quite a large upgrade. I think I overestimated Jace slightly; it seems like a marginal upgrade, whereas I thought it would be sort of a centralizing theme for blue.
It's just 1 extra mana to nearly guarantee Delirium. Seems not bad.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
How good are the 4c pyro decks? I find it interesting that running 1 architects of will is somehow optimal, or at least good enough for 2 tier 3 top8s.
I was scratching my head over it and did not include it in my build. Now I realized that the point is that architects of will is a 2-card-types in GY cantrip for a single mana. On some angles, it's better than mishra's bauble. It's not free like the bauble though, so I'm not sure the extra card type compensate, really.
PS: on the BBE front, I don't think we've yet reached it's final bloom. It's getting more and more plays in more decks by the days. As others have observed, it actually wrecked the first coming of Jace. And on the PW in modern front, the problem with PWs is that they're sorcery-speed beasts. The format is filled with instant-speed threats and answers.
I've been playing and tuning Hollow One for about 6 months now, and as soon as BBE was unbanned, I was all over Ponza. I've been doing great with both decks, though I've only taken Hollow One to larger events, and feel like Modern is in a great place. I was wary of Jace, and especially disliked the effect it could have on the secondary market, but a good friend of mine talked me down on the subject. I was definitely wrong, so I try to keep an open mind. Definitely appreciate the discussion here, which is what I assume the point of this Thread is, haha!
Just to be clear about the JTMS doomsaying, I want to differentiate between a) merely being worried about JTMS and b) predicting something outrageous like its rebanning/the end of Modern/it being the most broken card in the format, etc.
The former is fine and should not be vilified. That's just a missed prediction/opinion and everyone has them. It's good faith skepticism of the card based on past experience or current format analysis, and there's nothing wrong with that. These kinds of claims, although proven wrong, were measured and reasonable based on an (ultimately inaccurate) interpretation of available evidence and experience. Nothing wrong with that!
The latter, however, represented that awful intersection of click bait, hyperbole, uncritical sensationalism, and wanton Modern misunderstandings that frequently plagues Modern conversation. We need to push back against this stuff whenever possible, and the absolutely unjustifiable outcry after JTMS' unbanning is a perfect example of this. Anyone who participated in the non-measured, categorical, and alarmist outrage against JTMS should be treated with significant skepticism in the future. They are either not credible sources because they are deliberately outrageous, and/or because they are totally disconnected from Modern as a format.
Also, it does not count when the claimant leaves themselves a lazy out like "Maybe JTMS turns out fine for reasons x, y, z, but if not, you heard it hear first." This is often just a lazy way of saving face in the event one is totally wrong, rather than a legitimate acknowledgement of an argument's weaknesses. Treat this with skepticism as well.
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
I feel it's worth pointing out that Death & Taxes just Top 8'd a Grand Prix yesterday.
Of all the unbans that turned out to be fine, the only one that surprised me is Sword of the Meek. Why isn't the Foundry / Sword combo being played more, or at all? Gaining 1 life and putting a 1/1 flyer for each mana still sounds like a backbreaker agains most forms of aggro, yet it seems that neither Jeskai, Grixis or any other combination cares. Which cards or decks are good enough to keep it into tier 2 status?
Now for some tough talk. Given the power level of the cards that have been unbanned as of late without making an impact, why is Punishing Fire still banned?
It got hit with the banhammer along Wild Nacatl, which is already telling, and the main rationale that was given at the time was that "Tribal decks relying on 2 toughness "lords" see very little play, and this is a major barrier to their success.". Fast forward to now, the dust have settled and no tribal deck other than humans is tier 1 due to them being intrinsically weak.
Punishing Fire isn't good at every stage of the game. It's terribly inefficient on turn 2 and the opponent needs to play along in order for it to have a juicy target (Dark confidant is the only one that comes to mind). Anything else like a Thalia on the play, an Affinity busted opening or a infect creature with Mutagenic Growth at the ready laugh at a turn 2 Punishing Fire. It is good at making sure those decks don't win off a bad streak of drawing several lands in a row in the late game but it isn't something that you put on the deck and guarantees you a favorable matchup.
Before its ban Punishing Fire wasn't even obligatory for GR decks: variants of Zoo and Jund with and without it coexisted. Similarly, there wasn't a case of P-Fire being 50 % of the format and people having to play it or play against it. It would probably be better working against Jund than toward it, since it handles Confidant, Liliana and Bloodbraid quite well. It would probably help Scapeshift decks to keep up with the tier 1 decks and it could enable an aggro loam deck, both which would be fine additions to the format.
not only did it top 8 but im not even sure d&t qualifies as a typical midrange deck.
i see people bring up d&t when talking about whites presence in the format, which doesnt make much sense to me. the deck is pretty close to being mono-white. its like me calling blue weak because my mono-blue control deck isnt cutting it.
as for bbe. some people have pointed out that it will only continue to show up more and more. im actually leaning in the other direction at the moment. i predict jace will slowly rise in presence over time as people figure out how to play with the card, and bbe's meteoric rise will plateau and slowly fall until its only showing up in decks it is obviously good in.
right now people are trying to jam bbe into every deck that can conceivably run it, and while they might have moderate success - ultimately i believe that they will come to the conclusion that their deck isnt actually better off. just slightly different.
humans with bbe, titanshift with bbe, company decks using bbe, death shadow decks with bbe, hell even elves using bbe.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
I feel it's worth pointing out that Death & Taxes just Top 8'd a Grand Prix yesterday.
Skred won a GP last year right? The issue D&T has is it struggles to find a balance of clock and disruption because the beaters are so crappy, and the deck has struggled to perform for years as a result. It has a few top 8's but it never performs consistently. Bad win rates, bad conversion, low meta share, etc. You can see all the different splashes to see how scattered the deck is trying to find a decent clock.
BTL scapeshift also top 8'd, a deck that has zero meta share and terrible performance. There's just a lot of dice rolling that goes into a top 8.
not only did it top 8 but im not even sure d&t qualifies as a typical midrange deck.
i see people bring up d&t when talking about whites presence in the format, which doesnt make much sense to me. the deck is pretty close to being mono-white. its like me calling blue weak because my mono-blue control deck isnt cutting it.
The reason people bring up D&T is that it's close to midrange (on the control/midrange spectrum) and it's literally the only white deck in the entire format other than humans (another 3+ thalia deck) which is hard to classify (though it is heavily white and quite Thalia dependent).
We know that D&T is an established deck that would be improved with Stoneforge and almost surely play it; Jeskai and Abzan are the others people float, though they aren't really white decks (splashes).
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
I feel it's worth pointing out that Death & Taxes just Top 8'd a Grand Prix yesterday.
Skred won a GP last year right? The issue D&T has is it struggles to find a balance of clock and disruption because the beaters are so crappy, and the deck has struggled to perform for years as a result. It has a few top 8's but it never performs consistently. Bad win rates, bad conversion, low meta share, etc. You can see all the different splashes to see how scattered the deck is trying to find a decent clock.
Eh, there's usually one pretty good blue deck at a time. At the GP it was Breach moon from the look o things. But it's hard to keep chasing the meta with those decks.
But not far from that really. most people playing U based control are kidding themselves--it's a top 1% skill level thing to play and most people are not.
SFM would turn D&T from a fringe deck with minimal actual success into a tier 1 midrange deck, and would also likely revive Abzan as a deck. Those both seem like fine things to me.
I feel it's worth pointing out that Death & Taxes just Top 8'd a Grand Prix yesterday.
Skred won a GP last year right? The issue D&T has is it struggles to find a balance of clock and disruption because the beaters are so crappy, and the deck has struggled to perform for years as a result. It has a few top 8's but it never performs consistently. Bad win rates, bad conversion, low meta share, etc. You can see all the different splashes to see how scattered the deck is trying to find a decent clock.
BTL scapeshift also top 8'd, a deck that has zero meta share and terrible performance. There's just a lot of dice rolling that goes into a top 8.
No, I think that came from the fact RUG Scapeshift (Bring to Light Scapeshift is just RUG Scapeshift with a Black splash for Bring to Light) has been gaining popularity, with this finish just being a continuation of that. On the same weekend, a RUG Scapeshift deck got 2nd place at a 192-person event in Rome. The reason we're only seeing this recently is because it's only been recently that the card responsible for this return, Jace the Mind Sculptor, was legal to play in the format.
It might be true that this will just be a quick blip for Death & Taxes, but I think RUG Scapeshift (with or without Bring to Light) is going to stick around as a real deck.
not only did it top 8 but im not even sure d&t qualifies as a typical midrange deck.
i see people bring up d&t when talking about whites presence in the format, which doesnt make much sense to me. the deck is pretty close to being mono-white. its like me calling blue weak because my mono-blue control deck isnt cutting it.
The reason people bring up D&T is that it's close to midrange (on the control/midrange spectrum) and it's literally the only white deck in the entire format other than humans (another 3+ thalia deck) which is hard to classify (though it is heavily white and quite Thalia dependent).
We know that D&T is an established deck that would be improved with Stoneforge and almost surely play it; Jeskai and Abzan are the others people float, though they aren't really white decks (splashes).
the only white deck in the format? what? besides being dubious about d&t being labeled midrange at all, where are all these other mono-colored midrange decks?
humans is literally classified as 5 colors.
im not even arguing against SFM, cause frankly i just stopped caring. i even think white could use some better value creatures. however how well d&t is doing is hardly some metric to gauge how well the color is doing in the format. by that reasoning you could say that black is the worst color in the format because all mono black decks suck and they have no "midrange finisher" of their own.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Death's Shadow, Tasigur and Angler say hi. But I'm clearly not talking about mono colored decks. Jund is a black deck (though it's very strong G as well these days with goyf/ooze/bbe), Abzan company is a green deck, RG scapeshift is a green deck, UWR control is a blue deck, Grixis death Shadow is a black deck. That help?
It's not strictly about beaters either although that is one of the deficiencies; obviously colors are going to be better at some things than others, but white just struggles from an efficiency perspective in modern. There're really only two good white cards in the midrange spectrum: Thalia and Path. The rest are sideboard cards or super fringe.
People slum it with Gideons and such but they're just not really very efficient in comparison to cards like Tasigur, Angler, Bob, Shadow, Goyf, Snapcaster, BBE, Liliana, etc. In Legacy White is fairly well represented largely because of Stoneforge picking up the slack from a closing it out perspective as well as the efficiency perspective. And StP of course
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I did this exercise a few years ago and it's even worse now. If you look at established decks in the format that have results, here's how the core colors break down:
Black: GDS (U), Jund (G)
Green: Tron, Titanshift, Ponza, Gx Company, Elves, RG Eldrazi (I guess)
White: D&T, Humans (Rainbow),
Red: Burn, Dredge, Hollowed One, Living End (B)
Blue: UWx, URx, Merfolk, RUG Scapeshift, Storm
Brown: E-Tron, Ironworks, Affinity, Lantern (Arguably U/B? Hard to classify)
It doesn't take long to see that White sucks. It's not even a popular splash color anymore in decks that perform, outside of company decks. Not even confining it to the midrange / control spectrum there're basically no core white decks because the cards are largely trash.
What I'd love to do is dump all the decklists/manabases and such of established decks into some analytics, show the color distribution of cards played and so on. I'm pretty sure we would see that Green is the dominant color of modern with Red/Black/Blue kinda in the middle and White in last place both from a mana and card distribution perspective.
Death's Shadow, Tasigur and Angler say hi. But I'm clearly not talking about mono colored decks. Jund is a black deck (though it's very strong G as well these days with goyf/ooze/bbe), Abzan company is a green deck, RG scapeshift is a green deck, UWR control is a blue deck, Grixis death Shadow is a black deck. That help?
It's not strictly about beaters either although that is one of the deficiencies; obviously colors are going to be better at some things than others, but white just struggles from an efficiency perspective in modern. There're really only two good white cards in the midrange spectrum: Thalia and Path. The rest are sideboard cards or super fringe.
People slum it with Gideons and such but they're just not really very efficient in comparison to cards like Tasigur, Angler, Bob, Shadow, Goyf, Snapcaster, BBE, Liliana, etc. In Legacy White is fairly well represented largely because of Stoneforge picking up the slack from a closing it out perspective as well as the efficiency perspective. And StP of course
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I did this exercise a few years ago and it's even worse now. If you look at established decks in the format that have results, here's how the core colors break down:
Black: GDS (U), Jund (G)
Green: Tron, Titanshift, Ponza, Gx Company, Elves, RG Eldrazi (I guess)
White: D&T, Humans (Rainbow),
Red: Burn, Dredge, Hollowed One, Living End (B)
Blue: UWx, URx, Merfolk, RUG Scapeshift, Storm
Brown: E-Tron, Ironworks, Affinity, Lantern (Arguably U/B? Hard to classify)
It doesn't take long to see that White sucks. It's not even a popular splash color anymore in decks that perform, outside of company decks. Not even confining it to the midrange / control spectrum there're basically no core white decks because the cards are largely trash.
What I'd love to do is dump all the decklists/manabases and such of established decks into some analytics, show the color distribution of cards played and so on. I'm pretty sure we would see that Green is the dominant color of modern with Red/Black/Blue kinda in the middle and White in last place both from a mana and card distribution perspective.
if you look at it that way its actually the exact same in legacy. besides death and taxes every other deck that is playing white is only "splashing" and is founded on the power of cards from other colors. decks like jeskai stoneblade are as white as a modern abzan deck playing lingering souls and paths.
not too long ago i offered my opinion that white is just the weakest color in magic. not many people agreed with me though.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
If Wizards would just print StP into Modern, White would have a good game against most archetypes. it's not even about deciding if it is better than Path, just more of that effect. White may not have overly efficient threats, but it just needs things that are good in the early game at GETTING to late game. Baneslayer will never be anything short of 'kill on sight or lose. Hell, Serra Angel will get the job done pretty quickly. White has answers to stop stuff from hitting the field, and it has beaters, it just needs more retroactive stuff for the cards that have already landed. I would love a SFM unban, the card is super fun, and it would give us a relevant white deck just based on power, but it doesn't actually answer what I see as the big weakness.
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Yeah, White's general weakness is why I keep saying a 1-drop decent threat needs to be printed for them. SFM is either unhealthy for the meta, or a breeze to answer with MD K-Command and tons of 1-drop removal spells all over the place, but either way, a 4-mana Batterskull on Turn 3 isn't really doing much to help White put pressure on opponents. They just need a threatening 1-drop, that's all.
i mean...i guess thats one route. a cheap all purpose removal spell that can easily be splashed for? as someone who plays the, apparently, non-white jeskai control deck with snapcasters you wont see me complaining.
though im pretty sure if swords became modern legal and you showed up with baneslayers and serra angels youd be laughed out of the building.
you are either proactively pushing to employ your own strategy, finding a balance of disruption and with closing the game on your own terms, or focus on reacting until your opponent no longer poses a threat. outside of black and blue there arent many ways to accomplish the latter two options.
from my point of view im not looking at death and taxes in modern as some sort of metric. im looking at why a vanilla naya midrange deck has never been able to have lasting success. another removal spell isnt going to change that. outside of packing the right types of hate cards there isnt much you can do to stop the opponent from doing what they want.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I do think the ramping effect of Path has a huge impact. Swords instead? Sure. I mean Naya Zoo USED to work, its simply been left behind. Loam Lion, Kird Ape, and Wild Nacatl used to do work.
I mean what kind of pushed 1 drop are we talking about here. Kytheon, Hero of Akros levels?
A 1-mana White Legendary 2/1 that makes another 2/1 when it ETBs would be more what I'm talking about. If you interact, or put out a decent Board, it's probably not all that amazing. If you don't interact? You're probably dead by Turn 3 or 4 if they back it up with Thalia or something.
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I can't believe how incredibly wrong I was. At this point, I don't have many reservations on SFM existing WITH Jace. White kinda sucks and could use a super power for themselves.
Modern looks great overall, I was mainly just wanting people's perspectives on blue decks.
On a person level, do you guys feel better losing to a Jund deck or a Shadow deck? I'm pretty amazed how tiny the Shadow meta shrunk, even with Jace underperforming a little.
I'm relieved that modern was a strong enough format to handle BBE and Jace, all those articles about WOTC's recent unbanning look sillier and sillier as the weeks pass by.
It takes a man to admit it. Most others won't admit it and will even deny that they said anything. I always try to admit when I've been wrong in the past. I underestimated BBE and overestimated Jace, but I was fairly close on both.
Regarding Sowing Salt, it DID see some SB play. I ran 2 in my RG Breach deck; they are best off in a deck that always has 4 mana on turn 3. For other decks, yep, they're just too slow. Sowing Salt on someone's Tron land the turn after the cast Karn Liberated does very little usually.
I've had some sort of a mini-revelation recently, a Brennan DeCandio sized revelation. I had run into some variance in the past 3 months and probably won very close to only 50% of my Modern matches. So, I decided to STOP variance and run Grixis Shadow. Since running it (and certainly not making the best plays, but making solid ones so far), I have been 2-1-1, 3-1, and 4-0 with it. It is not that spectacular, but compared to my win percentage recently (I got destroyed by a Mardu Reveler player, who in his next match, double blocked a Goyf with two 1/1 Elemental tokens and a Scooze with a 1/1 and a Reveler, only to see the Scooze eat a single creature and he lost his board), it's pretty solid. I'm happy with GDS so far, but then I do also remember trying Affinity recently and starting off 11-0 in my first 11 matches. Also, I have to admit that GDS is not as boring as I thought it to be.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'm kind of in a slump at my FNM, going 2-2 a lot lately. Outside of the Philly Classic and a making top 8 at a 1K, I've been performing pretty poorly, and with my own deck (Jund) on top of it.
Modern is great though, even if I'm personally doing crappy right now.
I'd rather be Junded out, than look at the stupidity of a 5/5 for B, but as you know I'm of the old school 'bring back the pillars' mindset. Not that I dislike GDS as a deck, I just prefer Jund being around, instead of the very greedy GDS/4C Pyro/Traverse with Stubborn type decks.
GDS does seem to be a deck where if you could play it tight enough, you are in a good place.
Spirits
Also, regarding the speculation, it was really surprising how hard it was to get people to understand why BBE is not similar to CoCo/ would probably be quite a large upgrade. I think I overestimated Jace slightly; it seems like a marginal upgrade, whereas I thought it would be sort of a centralizing theme for blue.
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
It's just 1 extra mana to nearly guarantee Delirium. Seems not bad.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I was scratching my head over it and did not include it in my build. Now I realized that the point is that architects of will is a 2-card-types in GY cantrip for a single mana. On some angles, it's better than mishra's bauble. It's not free like the bauble though, so I'm not sure the extra card type compensate, really.
PS: on the BBE front, I don't think we've yet reached it's final bloom. It's getting more and more plays in more decks by the days. As others have observed, it actually wrecked the first coming of Jace. And on the PW in modern front, the problem with PWs is that they're sorcery-speed beasts. The format is filled with instant-speed threats and answers.
The former is fine and should not be vilified. That's just a missed prediction/opinion and everyone has them. It's good faith skepticism of the card based on past experience or current format analysis, and there's nothing wrong with that. These kinds of claims, although proven wrong, were measured and reasonable based on an (ultimately inaccurate) interpretation of available evidence and experience. Nothing wrong with that!
The latter, however, represented that awful intersection of click bait, hyperbole, uncritical sensationalism, and wanton Modern misunderstandings that frequently plagues Modern conversation. We need to push back against this stuff whenever possible, and the absolutely unjustifiable outcry after JTMS' unbanning is a perfect example of this. Anyone who participated in the non-measured, categorical, and alarmist outrage against JTMS should be treated with significant skepticism in the future. They are either not credible sources because they are deliberately outrageous, and/or because they are totally disconnected from Modern as a format.
Also, it does not count when the claimant leaves themselves a lazy out like "Maybe JTMS turns out fine for reasons x, y, z, but if not, you heard it hear first." This is often just a lazy way of saving face in the event one is totally wrong, rather than a legitimate acknowledgement of an argument's weaknesses. Treat this with skepticism as well.
Now for some tough talk. Given the power level of the cards that have been unbanned as of late without making an impact, why is Punishing Fire still banned?
It got hit with the banhammer along Wild Nacatl, which is already telling, and the main rationale that was given at the time was that "Tribal decks relying on 2 toughness "lords" see very little play, and this is a major barrier to their success.". Fast forward to now, the dust have settled and no tribal deck other than humans is tier 1 due to them being intrinsically weak.
Punishing Fire isn't good at every stage of the game. It's terribly inefficient on turn 2 and the opponent needs to play along in order for it to have a juicy target (Dark confidant is the only one that comes to mind). Anything else like a Thalia on the play, an Affinity busted opening or a infect creature with Mutagenic Growth at the ready laugh at a turn 2 Punishing Fire. It is good at making sure those decks don't win off a bad streak of drawing several lands in a row in the late game but it isn't something that you put on the deck and guarantees you a favorable matchup.
Before its ban Punishing Fire wasn't even obligatory for GR decks: variants of Zoo and Jund with and without it coexisted. Similarly, there wasn't a case of P-Fire being 50 % of the format and people having to play it or play against it. It would probably be better working against Jund than toward it, since it handles Confidant, Liliana and Bloodbraid quite well. It would probably help Scapeshift decks to keep up with the tier 1 decks and it could enable an aggro loam deck, both which would be fine additions to the format.
i see people bring up d&t when talking about whites presence in the format, which doesnt make much sense to me. the deck is pretty close to being mono-white. its like me calling blue weak because my mono-blue control deck isnt cutting it.
as for bbe. some people have pointed out that it will only continue to show up more and more. im actually leaning in the other direction at the moment. i predict jace will slowly rise in presence over time as people figure out how to play with the card, and bbe's meteoric rise will plateau and slowly fall until its only showing up in decks it is obviously good in.
right now people are trying to jam bbe into every deck that can conceivably run it, and while they might have moderate success - ultimately i believe that they will come to the conclusion that their deck isnt actually better off. just slightly different.
humans with bbe, titanshift with bbe, company decks using bbe, death shadow decks with bbe, hell even elves using bbe.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Skred won a GP last year right? The issue D&T has is it struggles to find a balance of clock and disruption because the beaters are so crappy, and the deck has struggled to perform for years as a result. It has a few top 8's but it never performs consistently. Bad win rates, bad conversion, low meta share, etc. You can see all the different splashes to see how scattered the deck is trying to find a decent clock.
BTL scapeshift also top 8'd, a deck that has zero meta share and terrible performance. There's just a lot of dice rolling that goes into a top 8.
The reason people bring up D&T is that it's close to midrange (on the control/midrange spectrum) and it's literally the only white deck in the entire format other than humans (another 3+ thalia deck) which is hard to classify (though it is heavily white and quite Thalia dependent).
We know that D&T is an established deck that would be improved with Stoneforge and almost surely play it; Jeskai and Abzan are the others people float, though they aren't really white decks (splashes).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
So like Blue since Twin.
Spirits
But not far from that really. most people playing U based control are kidding themselves--it's a top 1% skill level thing to play and most people are not.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
It might be true that this will just be a quick blip for Death & Taxes, but I think RUG Scapeshift (with or without Bring to Light) is going to stick around as a real deck.
the only white deck in the format? what? besides being dubious about d&t being labeled midrange at all, where are all these other mono-colored midrange decks?
humans is literally classified as 5 colors.
im not even arguing against SFM, cause frankly i just stopped caring. i even think white could use some better value creatures. however how well d&t is doing is hardly some metric to gauge how well the color is doing in the format. by that reasoning you could say that black is the worst color in the format because all mono black decks suck and they have no "midrange finisher" of their own.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)It's not strictly about beaters either although that is one of the deficiencies; obviously colors are going to be better at some things than others, but white just struggles from an efficiency perspective in modern. There're really only two good white cards in the midrange spectrum: Thalia and Path. The rest are sideboard cards or super fringe.
People slum it with Gideons and such but they're just not really very efficient in comparison to cards like Tasigur, Angler, Bob, Shadow, Goyf, Snapcaster, BBE, Liliana, etc. In Legacy White is fairly well represented largely because of Stoneforge picking up the slack from a closing it out perspective as well as the efficiency perspective. And StP of course
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I did this exercise a few years ago and it's even worse now. If you look at established decks in the format that have results, here's how the core colors break down:
Black: GDS (U), Jund (G)
Green: Tron, Titanshift, Ponza, Gx Company, Elves, RG Eldrazi (I guess)
White: D&T, Humans (Rainbow),
Red: Burn, Dredge, Hollowed One, Living End (B)
Blue: UWx, URx, Merfolk, RUG Scapeshift, Storm
Brown: E-Tron, Ironworks, Affinity, Lantern (Arguably U/B? Hard to classify)
It doesn't take long to see that White sucks. It's not even a popular splash color anymore in decks that perform, outside of company decks. Not even confining it to the midrange / control spectrum there're basically no core white decks because the cards are largely trash.
What I'd love to do is dump all the decklists/manabases and such of established decks into some analytics, show the color distribution of cards played and so on. I'm pretty sure we would see that Green is the dominant color of modern with Red/Black/Blue kinda in the middle and White in last place both from a mana and card distribution perspective.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
if you look at it that way its actually the exact same in legacy. besides death and taxes every other deck that is playing white is only "splashing" and is founded on the power of cards from other colors. decks like jeskai stoneblade are as white as a modern abzan deck playing lingering souls and paths.
not too long ago i offered my opinion that white is just the weakest color in magic. not many people agreed with me though.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Get Bolted?
I mean what kind of pushed 1 drop are we talking about here. Kytheon, Hero of Akros levels?
Spirits
though im pretty sure if swords became modern legal and you showed up with baneslayers and serra angels youd be laughed out of the building.
you are either proactively pushing to employ your own strategy, finding a balance of disruption and with closing the game on your own terms, or focus on reacting until your opponent no longer poses a threat. outside of black and blue there arent many ways to accomplish the latter two options.
from my point of view im not looking at death and taxes in modern as some sort of metric. im looking at why a vanilla naya midrange deck has never been able to have lasting success. another removal spell isnt going to change that. outside of packing the right types of hate cards there isnt much you can do to stop the opponent from doing what they want.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
A 1-mana White Legendary 2/1 that makes another 2/1 when it ETBs would be more what I'm talking about. If you interact, or put out a decent Board, it's probably not all that amazing. If you don't interact? You're probably dead by Turn 3 or 4 if they back it up with Thalia or something.