I've looked at jace for years and the one thing that kept him popular was the performance he had in standard. Landing turn four at the earliest in modern without being able to end the game on his own is what hurts him. Heck, in some cases he can just make the game take forever.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've looked at jace for years and the one thing that kept him popular was the performance he had in standard. Landing turn four at the earliest in modern without being able to end the game on his own is what hurts him. Heck, in some cases he can just make the game take forever.
Yeah, my biggest complaint about the Jace unban is that they didn't exclusively ban Shaheen Soorani from playing with him....
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I'm just saying thats what it takes to 'break Jace' in modern.
As to Jace in Modern, its a fine card, a good resource card, and a Modern appropriate planeswalker. The format is hostile enough to people who want to play the long game (and no, 6 turns is not 'long' in this context) that I have absolutely no concerns about him in the format at this point.
Until my Artifact to end all Creatures is created, just kill the guy before Turn 4 if you are so against seeing a Jace.
On the same day Wizards releases the competitive league 5-0 list showing 15 distinct Jace the Mind Sculptor decks, saying wizards hasn't achieved "competitive diversity" among blue decks is a very hard position to take.
Jace is not a deck. Jace, is a blue engine.[/quote]
Yes that would be why I used the words "15 distinct Jace the Mind Sculptor decks" to indicate I was referring to the fact that there were fifteen different blue decks that 5-0d a comp league since the last data dump.
In the Jeskai deck (I used the first one that came up on goldfish) cards that are more than $10 for a playset:
Snapcaster Mage, Spell Queller, Vendillion Clique, Jace, Path to Exile, Cryptic Command, Flooded Strand, Hallowed Fountain, Scalding Tarn, Steam Vents, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of other 1 of SB cards and Celestial Collonade. Literally the only one that hasn't been reprinted or in a set that recently was in standard is collonade.
Zzzz. Blah.
Re-read my original post. Let me quote it right here:
"(It doesn't help that the last two master sets have almost entirely avoided Jeskai cards outside of Jace.)"
I was talking about Iconic Master and M25. I only talked about the latest two because master sets only have short-term effect on prices. Snapcaster was 60 CAD$ before its MM reprint, went to 50-55, then rapidly climbed back up higher and now sits at 80-85 here. The MM reprint no longer has any effect on its price because the extra supply has been entirely absorbed. Tarn is still at 90 CAD$. Collonade keep climbing. Explosive at 60.
Of course, if you twist was I explicitly write, you can all the fun you want. Keep it on.
I respect all of your posts aboud Pod, that's fine, maybe are true and I'm blind on this.
I continue thinking birthing pod wouldn't be played at all (in legacy sees no play), I would prefer CoCo.
regards,
Would not be played? Bro, it was banned at a 20% meta share. Modern hasn't changed so much it would be bad. K Command, which is a 2 of in the decks that play it, are not answers to this deck
And you're wrong, your ass would switch to POD so fast if it were unbanned. CoCo is worse in every way. Birthing Pod is 3 mana (2 life). It involves no feel bad of bricking, you'll never draw 5 cards and play a Bird and Noble as your reveal. It can combo you out or play the value plan.
Finks, Voice of Resurgence, Rallier, Rhino, E-Wit, whatever combo win pieces it could tutor up.
It also can play spells if it wants, since it doesn't have to worry about the RNG factor of CoCo.
It's fine if you don't feel POD would break the format, but I question what you understand about this format on a fundamental level if you can't realize all of this, and that you think you'd prefer CoCo.
The person above me said it---it was the top deck even when treasure cruise/dig through time was legal.
With Felidar Guardian Pod combos just with Kitchen Finks on the board. No, thank you. Besides it is a very strong grinding machine.
This. I played Pod, you could often times just find whatever the best card in your deck was at will, it was absurd. With today's card pool you can turn 4 combo with birthing pod and virtually any creature in the deck in your opening hand. If you have a mana dork and a finks it's a turn 3 combo. If your opponent is going to disrupt your combo you just pod into siege rhino on turn 4, then siege rhino on turn 5, then siege rhino on turn 6 on top of whatever creatures you're actually casting from hand. The deck is ******* nutty. It's amazingly fun to play, and I wish there was a world where I could play it again that wouldn't be toxic as hell to the metagame, but it shouldn't be coming back any time soon.
just read this article on starcity by ben friedman, which i found myself nodding my head to as it echoes some of my suspicions about grixis death shadow. not sure if he is right, but its worth thinking about imo.
just read this article on starcity by ben friedman, which i found myself nodding my head to as it echoes some of my suspicions about grixis death shadow. not sure if he is right, but its worth thinking about imo.
The top 4 of SCG Dallas was Ponza, Storm, Infect. I was super surprised to see this and the overall success of Storm over the top 32. Where was the Burn or Death's Shadow? I can't imagine Death's Shadow being bad. I always thought it was probably the best deck in the format and I cant see the recent ubannings too different. idk Maybe Jund pushes it out, but i mean thats 1 deck
yeah thats why i mentioned before that i wish we could see the day 1 metagame breakdown. i think it is plausible that people moved off of grixis death shadow out of fear of being pushed out in a metagame that doesnt exist.
the fear mongering about certain decks being overly dominant after the unbannings, and how some decks would just be invalidated hasnt been proven true yet. and from my point of view GDS is a stupidly powerful deck - the closest thing this format has to legacy delver.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
just read this article on starcity by ben friedman, which i found myself nodding my head to as it echoes some of my suspicions about grixis death shadow. not sure if he is right, but its worth thinking about imo.
Birthing Pod was still the best performing deck during the Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time era of modern. That says it all.
The context of that format is that early and consistent Rhinos from turn 3 and on beat most decks. That doesn't necessarily mean that Birthing Pod competed on any level close to what Treasure Cruise did.
But like others, I also know that Pod can't be unbanned. Siege Rhino essentially put a nail on the coffin of Pod, a deck that was already pushing towards a possible ban and played by some of the best players this game has ever seen (LSV, Seth Manfield, Josh McClain, and Sam Pardee). Wizards simply can't push creatures the way that they want to with the card still around. Now, they can make any damn creature they want, lol.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The downturn in GDS was mostly due to fear of Jace decks. Since that fear's turned out to be overblown I expect GDS to make a comeback.
Whether you want to be playing Traverse Shadow or GDS depends on what removal you're expecting to face (Now that Traverse Shadow players have adopted Stubborn Denial and sometimes Snapcaster Mage.) If you want to beat Fatal Push, play GDS for the Delve creatures. If you want to beat Path to Exile, play Traverse Shadow for the higher threat density.
yeah each of the death shadow variants has their strengths and weakness.
you can also see that a convergence is happening between some decks. like traverse shadow incorporating the faithless looting + bedlam reveler engine. i wouldnt be surprised to see at some point just going full on 5-colors being a popular option.
sort of the same type of stuff you see with delver decks in legacy. color combos fall in and out of favor, and some people just jam two versions together.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Here are some reasons that cards are banned in Modern:
Some cards enable a top tier deck to consistently win on turn 3 or earlier. Because this violates the "turn 4" rule of the format, the following cards have been banned:
Other cards have been banned because they make certain decks too consistent/reliable and thus stagnate the format. Here are some examples of these cards:
Some cards, currently only one, are banned because they were just mistakes. This card is one of the most broken cards of all time and has been banned in almost every format where it was or is legal:
There are also some cards that were banned for logistical reasons. These cards made tournaments last too long and were banned to make events run smoother. They were not necessarily banned for power reasons.
It's fine if you don't feel POD would break the format, but I question what you understand about this format on a fundamental level if you can't realize all of this, and that you think you'd prefer CoCo.
Fundamental level, jajajaj, I'm not idiot man, where are the admins here?
I assume you said about the same about Jace and BBE. Powerlevel has changed. Would you kill before turn 4 with POD? hint: NO.
Shut up your mouth.
</blockquote>
Turn one birds, turn two pod sac birds for spellskite to protect combo. Turn 3 play finks, sac finks getting felidar guardian targeting pod, sac finks again getting resto angel targeting felidar guardian targeting pod, sac felidar guardian getting Kiki win the game on turn three
It's fine if you don't feel POD would break the format, but I question what you understand about this format on a fundamental level if you can't realize all of this, and that you think you'd prefer CoCo.
Fundamental level, jajajaj, I'm not idiot man, where are the admins here?
I assume you said about the same about Jace and BBE. Powerlevel has changed. Would you kill before turn 4 with POD? hint: NO.
Shut up your mouth.
</blockquote>
Turn one birds, turn two pod sac birds for spellskite to protect combo. Turn 3 play finks, sac finks getting felidar guardian targeting pod, sac finks again getting resto angel targeting felidar guardian targeting pod, sac felidar guardian getting Kiki win the game on turn three
Spirits
So you want a Rule of Law glued to a Torpor Orb, which are both stapled to Blind Obedience? What do you think Magic is? A LEGO play set? lol
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah, my biggest complaint about the Jace unban is that they didn't exclusively ban Shaheen Soorani from playing with him....
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I'm just saying thats what it takes to 'break Jace' in modern.
As to Jace in Modern, its a fine card, a good resource card, and a Modern appropriate planeswalker. The format is hostile enough to people who want to play the long game (and no, 6 turns is not 'long' in this context) that I have absolutely no concerns about him in the format at this point.
Until my Artifact to end all Creatures is created, just kill the guy before Turn 4 if you are so against seeing a Jace.
Spirits
Jace is not a deck. Jace, is a blue engine.[/quote]
Yes that would be why I used the words "15 distinct Jace the Mind Sculptor decks" to indicate I was referring to the fact that there were fifteen different blue decks that 5-0d a comp league since the last data dump.
Spirits
Zzzz. Blah.
Re-read my original post. Let me quote it right here:
"(It doesn't help that the last two master sets have almost entirely avoided Jeskai cards outside of Jace.)"
I was talking about Iconic Master and M25. I only talked about the latest two because master sets only have short-term effect on prices. Snapcaster was 60 CAD$ before its MM reprint, went to 50-55, then rapidly climbed back up higher and now sits at 80-85 here. The MM reprint no longer has any effect on its price because the extra supply has been entirely absorbed. Tarn is still at 90 CAD$. Collonade keep climbing. Explosive at 60.
Of course, if you twist was I explicitly write, you can all the fun you want. Keep it on.
Would not be played? Bro, it was banned at a 20% meta share. Modern hasn't changed so much it would be bad. K Command, which is a 2 of in the decks that play it, are not answers to this deck
And you're wrong, your ass would switch to POD so fast if it were unbanned. CoCo is worse in every way. Birthing Pod is 3 mana (2 life). It involves no feel bad of bricking, you'll never draw 5 cards and play a Bird and Noble as your reveal. It can combo you out or play the value plan.
Finks, Voice of Resurgence, Rallier, Rhino, E-Wit, whatever combo win pieces it could tutor up.
It also can play spells if it wants, since it doesn't have to worry about the RNG factor of CoCo.
It's fine if you don't feel POD would break the format, but I question what you understand about this format on a fundamental level if you can't realize all of this, and that you think you'd prefer CoCo.
The person above me said it---it was the top deck even when treasure cruise/dig through time was legal.
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
This. I played Pod, you could often times just find whatever the best card in your deck was at will, it was absurd. With today's card pool you can turn 4 combo with birthing pod and virtually any creature in the deck in your opening hand. If you have a mana dork and a finks it's a turn 3 combo. If your opponent is going to disrupt your combo you just pod into siege rhino on turn 4, then siege rhino on turn 5, then siege rhino on turn 6 on top of whatever creatures you're actually casting from hand. The deck is ******* nutty. It's amazingly fun to play, and I wish there was a world where I could play it again that wouldn't be toxic as hell to the metagame, but it shouldn't be coming back any time soon.
This^^^^^
Basically you are ok with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time or cards of that format warping caliber in Modern
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36774_If-Youll-Let-Me-Beat-You-With-Deaths-Shadow.html
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)The top 4 of SCG Dallas was Ponza, Storm, Infect. I was super surprised to see this and the overall success of Storm over the top 32. Where was the Burn or Death's Shadow? I can't imagine Death's Shadow being bad. I always thought it was probably the best deck in the format and I cant see the recent ubannings too different. idk Maybe Jund pushes it out, but i mean thats 1 deck
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
the fear mongering about certain decks being overly dominant after the unbannings, and how some decks would just be invalidated hasnt been proven true yet. and from my point of view GDS is a stupidly powerful deck - the closest thing this format has to legacy delver.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I know it will get some agreement, but I'm not sure I can buy into it.
If this were so, would not the Pro Tour have demonstrated it?
EDIT: OK, I read the article, I misconstrued the meaning/point. :]
Essentially, if you dont interact, GDS will kill you. Thats fair.
Spirits
The context of that format is that early and consistent Rhinos from turn 3 and on beat most decks. That doesn't necessarily mean that Birthing Pod competed on any level close to what Treasure Cruise did.
But like others, I also know that Pod can't be unbanned. Siege Rhino essentially put a nail on the coffin of Pod, a deck that was already pushing towards a possible ban and played by some of the best players this game has ever seen (LSV, Seth Manfield, Josh McClain, and Sam Pardee). Wizards simply can't push creatures the way that they want to with the card still around. Now, they can make any damn creature they want, lol.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Based solely on this card, saying GDS is such a power-house against infect, boggles, etc is hyperbole.
Edit: this was a reponse to the post about Ben Friedman's article.
Whether you want to be playing Traverse Shadow or GDS depends on what removal you're expecting to face (Now that Traverse Shadow players have adopted Stubborn Denial and sometimes Snapcaster Mage.) If you want to beat Fatal Push, play GDS for the Delve creatures. If you want to beat Path to Exile, play Traverse Shadow for the higher threat density.
you can also see that a convergence is happening between some decks. like traverse shadow incorporating the faithless looting + bedlam reveler engine. i wouldnt be surprised to see at some point just going full on 5-colors being a popular option.
sort of the same type of stuff you see with delver decks in legacy. color combos fall in and out of favor, and some people just jam two versions together.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I mean the very first post in the thread (and all B&R threads) summarizes this.
Turn one birds, turn two pod sac birds for spellskite to protect combo. Turn 3 play finks, sac finks getting felidar guardian targeting pod, sac finks again getting resto angel targeting felidar guardian targeting pod, sac felidar guardian getting Kiki win the game on turn three
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)How will you play AND activate pod on turn two?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW