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Quote from JESUSSAYSNO » This would all be a non-issue if standard sets had many powerful cards like they did prior to Theros. Modern and Legacy can adapt to new cards due to their vast pool of answers, and when standard is a good format and the rotations are slower, people are willing to pay for expensive decks. The format didnt really get cheaper when card quality dropped, the price of standard cards that won't be useful post rotation is the same as the cards that are now modern staples, that existed in standard, when they were in standard. Print an odd half dozen cards people will play in eternal formats per set, raise the baseline power level of cards, knock it off with the ETB effect cards, and then things like energy won't ever come up, and the health of the format is raised fairly dramatically. Good bans, good for the format, doesnt fix format problems. Standard isnt appealing because very few of the cards have any sticking power in eternal formats.
Quote from Billiondegree »My favorite quote from a thread in the rumor mill regarding the standard bans: Quote from JESUSSAYSNO » This would all be a non-issue if standard sets had many powerful cards like they did prior to Theros. Modern and Legacy can adapt to new cards due to their vast pool of answers, and when standard is a good format and the rotations are slower, people are willing to pay for expensive decks. The format didnt really get cheaper when card quality dropped, the price of standard cards that won't be useful post rotation is the same as the cards that are now modern staples, that existed in standard, when they were in standard. Print an odd half dozen cards people will play in eternal formats per set, raise the baseline power level of cards, knock it off with the ETB effect cards, and then things like energy won't ever come up, and the health of the format is raised fairly dramatically. Good bans, good for the format, doesnt fix format problems. Standard isnt appealing because very few of the cards have any sticking power in eternal formats. Let's home play design fixes this mess and we get to see more modern playable cards as well as no more standard (or modern) bans
Quote from ktkenshinx »Quote from Billiondegree »My favorite quote from a thread in the rumor mill regarding the standard bans: Quote from JESUSSAYSNO » This would all be a non-issue if standard sets had many powerful cards like they did prior to Theros. Modern and Legacy can adapt to new cards due to their vast pool of answers, and when standard is a good format and the rotations are slower, people are willing to pay for expensive decks. The format didnt really get cheaper when card quality dropped, the price of standard cards that won't be useful post rotation is the same as the cards that are now modern staples, that existed in standard, when they were in standard. Print an odd half dozen cards people will play in eternal formats per set, raise the baseline power level of cards, knock it off with the ETB effect cards, and then things like energy won't ever come up, and the health of the format is raised fairly dramatically. Good bans, good for the format, doesnt fix format problems. Standard isnt appealing because very few of the cards have any sticking power in eternal formats. Let's home play design fixes this mess and we get to see more modern playable cards as well as no more standard (or modern) bans Well said. Standard design is laughably bad at this point. I fully expect major changes due to the crazy volume of bans, the bad press, and the format's terrible attendance and coverage. Dollars speak and the playerbase has spoken loudly this year. Here's hoping for better and more powerful cards coming down the 2018 pipeline.
Quote from pizzap » You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Quote from Teysa_Karlov »I don't get this line of logic. Very few standard cards ever impact Modern. The ones that do are no-brainers (Allied Fetches), or extremely powerful (Fatal Push). If you're asking for seven or eight eternally playable cards in every standard set, you're asking for a standard that would also be completely unplayable, unless you magically got them to all slot into different standard decks. The last time we got a serious influx of cards in Modern (INN/RTR), the standard format was U/W Control or bust. I know a lot of players enjoyed that format because you could bring U/W Control to any FNM and be assured a decent finish, but I doubt that would fly today with the stricter ban policy.
Quote from slipknot72102 »the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Quote from Teysa_Karlov » I don't get this line of logic. Very few standard cards ever impact Modern. The ones that do are no-brainers (Allied Fetches), or extremely powerful (Fatal Push). If you're asking for seven or eight eternally playable cards in every standard set, you're asking for a standard that would also be completely unplayable, unless you magically got them to all slot into different standard decks. The last time we got a serious influx of cards in Modern (INN/RTR), the standard format was U/W Control or bust. I know a lot of players enjoyed that format because you could bring U/W Control to any FNM and be assured a decent finish, but I doubt that would fly today with the stricter ban policy.
Quote from ashtonkutcher »Quote from Teysa_Karlov »I don't get this line of logic. Very few standard cards ever impact Modern. The ones that do are no-brainers (Allied Fetches), or extremely powerful (Fatal Push). If you're asking for seven or eight eternally playable cards in every standard set, you're asking for a standard that would also be completely unplayable, unless you magically got them to all slot into different standard decks. The last time we got a serious influx of cards in Modern (INN/RTR), the standard format was U/W Control or bust. I know a lot of players enjoyed that format because you could bring U/W Control to any FNM and be assured a decent finish, but I doubt that would fly today with the stricter ban policy.This is just so incredibly false. Multiple cards from almost every Standard set enter Modern, and about one in every three expansion marks a major shake-up in the format. Lists of them have been published time and again in this very thread (series).
Quote from Teysa_Karlov »Quote from ashtonkutcher »Quote from Teysa_Karlov »I don't get this line of logic. Very few standard cards ever impact Modern. The ones that do are no-brainers (Allied Fetches), or extremely powerful (Fatal Push). If you're asking for seven or eight eternally playable cards in every standard set, you're asking for a standard that would also be completely unplayable, unless you magically got them to all slot into different standard decks. The last time we got a serious influx of cards in Modern (INN/RTR), the standard format was U/W Control or bust. I know a lot of players enjoyed that format because you could bring U/W Control to any FNM and be assured a decent finish, but I doubt that would fly today with the stricter ban policy.This is just so incredibly false. Multiple cards from almost every Standard set enter Modern, and about one in every three expansion marks a major shake-up in the format. Lists of them have been published time and again in this very thread (series). Multiple cards? Amonkhet: Harsh Mentor (SB) Vizier of Remedies Hour of Devastation: Nothing Kaladesh: Chandra (sort of), Torrential Gearhulk (Sort of) Aether Revolt: Walking Ballista, Fatal Push, Baral, Sram (Sort of) Shadows: Thalia's LT, Traverse (Sort of), Prized Amalgam, Thraben Inspector (Sort of), Eldritch Moon: Collective Brutality, Grim Flayer, Spell Queller, Thalia (sort of) So in the last three blocks (not counting Ixalan yet), you have a bunch of cards used in fringe strats, with a couple solid Modern additions (Push, Amalgam, Brutality, Baral, Thalia's LT, Spell Queller, Flayer). 7 cards in three full blocks.
Quote from idSurge »Do we need to go through every Tier 1 and 2 deck list? Yes, MULTIPLE cards (aka 1+) are coming into Modern from almost every set.
Quote from gkourou »One tweet we all shall be loving (and especially Sheridan, cheers!) is this: Patrick Sullivan @BasicMountain I wish the official discussion spoke more to a framework of "what is fun?" rather than the specific percentage points of format balance. Aaron Forsythe @mtgaaron Fun is always front of mind, but it is so subjective and rarely as persuasive as hard data. Source: https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/952986914210037760
Patrick Sullivan @BasicMountain I wish the official discussion spoke more to a framework of "what is fun?" rather than the specific percentage points of format balance. Aaron Forsythe @mtgaaron Fun is always front of mind, but it is so subjective and rarely as persuasive as hard data.
Quote from Metillon »1-2 cards each set is a vast underestimation of what is going on. Many more find places. They might be more niche, but they find places. Like Hope of Ghirapur in Affinity. If you focus on a few Tier 1 decks, then yes, 1 card will be delivered to those, but many more shape new decks and strengthen the lower decks of the format potentially diversifying the format even more. The rate by which cards enter the Modern card pool is good. Not too few, not too many.
Quote from spawnofhastur » Which would be a more acceptable answer if they'd actually give us the data.
Quote from Teysa_Karlov »Quote from ktkenshinx »Quote from Billiondegree »My favorite quote from a thread in the rumor mill regarding the standard bans: Quote from JESUSSAYSNO » This would all be a non-issue if standard sets had many powerful cards like they did prior to Theros. Modern and Legacy can adapt to new cards due to their vast pool of answers, and when standard is a good format and the rotations are slower, people are willing to pay for expensive decks. The format didnt really get cheaper when card quality dropped, the price of standard cards that won't be useful post rotation is the same as the cards that are now modern staples, that existed in standard, when they were in standard. Print an odd half dozen cards people will play in eternal formats per set, raise the baseline power level of cards, knock it off with the ETB effect cards, and then things like energy won't ever come up, and the health of the format is raised fairly dramatically. Good bans, good for the format, doesnt fix format problems. Standard isnt appealing because very few of the cards have any sticking power in eternal formats. Let's home play design fixes this mess and we get to see more modern playable cards as well as no more standard (or modern) bans Well said. Standard design is laughably bad at this point. I fully expect major changes due to the crazy volume of bans, the bad press, and the format's terrible attendance and coverage. Dollars speak and the playerbase has spoken loudly this year. Here's hoping for better and more powerful cards coming down the 2018 pipeline. I don't get this line of logic. Very few standard cards ever impact Modern. The ones that do are no-brainers (Allied Fetches), or extremely powerful (Fatal Push). If you're asking for seven or eight eternally playable cards in every standard set, you're asking for a standard that would also be completely unplayable, unless you magically got them to all slot into different standard decks. The last time we got a serious influx of cards in Modern (INN/RTR), the standard format was U/W Control or bust. I know a lot of players enjoyed that format because you could bring U/W Control to any FNM and be assured a decent finish, but I doubt that would fly today with the stricter ban policy.
Quote from Teysa_Karlov »Quote from idSurge »Do we need to go through every Tier 1 and 2 deck list? Yes, MULTIPLE cards (aka 1+) are coming into Modern from almost every set. Only 1 or 2 are coming through every set, with the exception of powerful lands, which wasn't the point of my post. One or two cards coming through each set on average, and yet Standard has seen more bans now than any time since Mirrodin 1. And you expect more extremely powerful, Modern-relevant strength cards are going to come through?
Quote from 0evil_overlord0 »Wizards has to balance printing new modern-playables with avoiding power creep. 1cmc discard is a good example: there's little reason to run more than 8 cards with the effect, so any new playable 1cmc discard spell would have to replace Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize. It's only expected that as time passes we'll see fewer new modern-playables because more modern-playables exist after each set.
Quote from idSurge »-.- Be that as it may, there is design space that introduces new cards, in nearly every set. Thats the point of contension, and its a false narrative that 'Standard cannot impact Modern', when perfectly safe Standard cards, can and DO have major impacts on Modern. Treasure Cruise Dig through Time <Insert Broken Eldrazi Here> Cathartic Reunion All of the above had more than an impact, they essentially defined Modern for periods of time.