What disappoints me is the lack of explanation. Instead of just writing "no changes", how about explaining why? They do that when they ban or unban cards, but in some cases a lack of action should also be explained.
You can only write "everything is fine" in so many ways
Aaron Forsythe saw his shadow. Three more months of linearity.
Interaction is here. The format IS interactive.
Go look at the recent top 32 at the SCG Open. 1 Jund list and 2 Jeskai lists in a sea of linearity. Face the facts: the format is ultra linear right now.
Tiers indicate prevalence in the metagame, not tournament results or chances of success. People will stubbornly continue to play interactive decks like Jund in spite of the fact that they are not good choices for spiking an event.
What disappoints me is the lack of explanation. Instead of just writing "no changes", how about explaining why? They do that when they ban or unban cards, but in some cases a lack of action should also be explained.
This. At least the commander threat had an answer from Sheldon. He took the time to write more than two words
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Wizards almost always believe that their fall set will influence Modern more than anything the ban list can do. Ultimately, that's what they want, to have Modern shaped primarily
by Standard sets opposed to their R&D announcements. Once they see nothing has really come of Kaladesh they'll probably do something in January, or that they feel AV/Sword was big enough change for one year's time in Modern. Baby steps I guess, but not really necessary at the point given how the card pool has grown since stuff like JTMS was the boogeyman on everyone's mind.
If you're not sure what to do, don't do anything. Fine with me
When the "problem" decks have 5% meta share and the police deck has 10%, do we need to rush to fix anything?
I don't feel like the format is languishing. Maybe we could use some better countermagic or filtering, but am I going to stop playing modern if it doesn't get a slight improvement? Nope.
Wizards almost always believe that their fall set will influence Modern more than anything the ban list can do. Ultimately, that's what they want, to have Modern shaped primarily
by Standard sets opposed to their R&D announcements.
For that to happen they would need to actually print good cards in Standard though.
For that to happen they would need to actually print good cards in Standard though.
But that's the point, their delusion in thinking that new sets dramatically shake up Modern. We have seen some exceptions here and there, like Nahiri, Kolaghan's Command and Kalitas but most of their newer sets are water down compared to Innistrad or Return to Ravnica. How can we inspect good answers when Mana Leak is deemed too powerful and the best they can come up with is Revolutionary Rebuff? Banning Twin shook up the format more than anything printed in the last year or so.
For that to happen they would need to actually print good cards in Standard though.
But that's the point, their delusion in thinking that new sets dramatically shake up Modern. We have seen some exceptions here and there, like Nahiri, Kolaghan's Command and Kalitas but most of their newer sets are water down compared to Innistrad or Return to Ravnica. How can we inspect good answers when Mana Leak is deemed too powerful and the best they can come up with is Revolutionary Rebuff? Banning Twin shook up the format more than anything printed in the last year or so.
Then let them delude themselves if that means we don't have to cope with reactionary bans and have a healthy and balanced format where ridiculous cards come out of the banlist slow but steady as they fail to impact the format with yet another variation of a green 5/5 for 4. We can always bank on mistakes like CoCo or Treasure Cruise (although that was a rather brutal one) happening and impacting the format.
Not TKS, Reality smasher etc? Eldrazi winter was a thing.
Yes, Eldrazi Winter was a thing, but how would it have been if Twin and Bloom were still around? Clearing the way for Eldrazi certainly helped in its success.
Wizards almost always believe that their fall set will influence Modern more than anything the ban list can do. Ultimately, that's what they want, to have Modern shaped primarily
by Standard sets opposed to their R&D announcements.
For that to happen they would need to actually print good cards in Standard though.
Yeah, because allied fetchlands, collected company, nahiri, kalitas, atarka's command, kolaghan's command, ugin, ulamog, become immense, temur battle rage, deflecting palm, harbinger of the tides, ghirapur aether grid, grim flayer, insolent neonate, prized amalgam, tks, smasher, drowner, displacer, reshaper and so many others haven't seen modern play at all... Now we are getting enemy fastlands, blossoming defense, cathartic reunion and probably a couple more sleepers.
But yeah, recent standard cards are bad and do not impact modern. This "argument" is always brought up though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Not TKS, Reality smasher etc? Eldrazi winter was a thing.
Yes, Eldrazi Winter was a thing, but how would it have been if Twin and Bloom were still around? Clearing the way for Eldrazi certainly helped in its success.
if you think twin or amulet could beat eldrazi, your a) delusional and b) saying that twin and bloom are more powerful than the most broken modern deck ever, which makes me more glad they got the axe
For that to happen they would need to actually print good cards in Standard though.
But that's the point, their delusion in thinking that new sets dramatically shake up Modern. We have seen some exceptions here and there, like Nahiri, Kolaghan's Command and Kalitas but most of their newer sets are water down compared to Innistrad or Return to Ravnica. How can we inspect good answers when Mana Leak is deemed too powerful and the best they can come up with is Revolutionary Rebuff? Banning Twin shook up the format more than anything printed in the last year or so.
i can't think of a set since theros block that hasn't contributed staples/playable to the modern pool. khans block brought us tons us stuff, origins brought us stuff, bfz block created the most broken deck in history and still has a tier 1 deck represented by it, shadows has brought us tons us stuff as well. when you say "innistrad/rtr brought us tons of stuff", i hope you realize those blocks brought us about 4 staples combined
How many of those actually address problems in Modern? If anything some of those added to its current linear nature. There a few too many good threats compared to reliable answers.
No new thread needed, although I did update the OP. It's a "no changes" announcement and this current thread is pretty tame at only 100 or so pages. It will stay open until January.
if you think twin or amulet could beat eldrazi, your a) delusional and b) saying that twin and bloom are more powerful than the most broken modern deck ever, which makes me more glad they got the axe
So you going to back that up with anecdotal evidence?
if you think twin or amulet could beat eldrazi, your a) delusional and b) saying that twin and bloom are more powerful than the most broken modern deck ever, which makes me more glad they got the axe
So you going to back that up with anecdotal evidence?
I believe there are 1-2 video series by SCG or channelfireball that do just that. One group gets crushed by eldrazi. One group beats it
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
if you think twin or amulet could beat eldrazi, your a) delusional and b) saying that twin and bloom are more powerful than the most broken modern deck ever, which makes me more glad they got the axe
So you going to back that up with anecdotal evidence?
Nothing anecdotal about it. Twin and blooms worst matchups were decks that could heavily disrupt them with a fast clock to back it up. Eldrazi was exactly this
Aaron Forsythe saw his shadow. Three more months of linearity.
Interaction is here. The format IS interactive.
Go look at the recent top 32 at the SCG Open. 1 Jund list and 2 Jeskai lists in a sea of linearity. Face the facts: the format is ultra linear right now.
Tiers indicate prevalence in the metagame, not tournament results or chances of success. People will stubbornly continue to play interactive decks like Jund in spite of the fact that they are not good choices for spiking an event.
Wizards- "We broke these decks as planned, good we can ban something in them now"
Ban - Grave troll dredge is bonkers now
- mutigenic growth or become immense- infect has become harder to intract with or race, and has top 8ed to many times.
And hopefully unbans to shake things up next time around
How many of those actually address problems in Modern? If anything some of those added to its current linear nature. There a few too many good threats compared to reliable answers.
The argument was that standard sets do not influence Modern, which is false and just the most recents sets are enough to prove that. As for "problems", they have the banlist for that. They won't risk warping standard to try and "fix" modern, whether you agree or not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I'm not going to get into a argument over what old deck could beat another since there is literally no point. I already find this tiring and fruitless as it is.
I could have worded my initial post a bit better ( I'm on very little sleep ) but the jest of what I'm saying is that Wizards doesn't give us the answers we need to address what
is plaguing Modern. We get nifty stuff to brew and a lot more threats but nothing to really balance the latter out. At least they could give us Counterspell.
Aaron Forsythe saw his shadow. Three more months of linearity.
Interaction is here. The format IS interactive.
Go look at the recent top 32 at the SCG Open. 1 Jund list and 2 Jeskai lists in a sea of linearity. Face the facts: the format is ultra linear right now.
Tiers indicate prevalence in the metagame, not tournament results or chances of success. People will stubbornly continue to play interactive decks like Jund in spite of the fact that they are not good choices for spiking an event.
Wizards- "We broke these decks as planned, good we can ban something in them now"
Ban - Grave troll dredge is bonkers now
- mutigenic growth or become immense- infect has become harder to intract with or race, and has top 8ed to many times.
And hopefully unbans to shake things up next time around
Infect has had 4 top 8's since march, jund has had much more than that, do you think jund needs the axe too?
if you think twin or amulet could beat eldrazi, your a) delusional and b) saying that twin and bloom are more powerful than the most broken modern deck ever, which makes me more glad they got the axe
So you going to back that up with anecdotal evidence?
Amulet would annihilate eldrazi. Please playtest that one and report back. Jund could barely manage an even matchup with Amulet and they played turn 6-7 pieces of turn 1 discard and fulminator mages in the sideboard
You can only write "everything is fine" in so many ways
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The WMCQ results immediately after that, and all of the events prior to it disagree with you
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
This. At least the commander threat had an answer from Sheldon. He took the time to write more than two words
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
by Standard sets opposed to their R&D announcements. Once they see nothing has really come of Kaladesh they'll probably do something in January, or that they feel AV/Sword was big enough change for one year's time in Modern. Baby steps I guess, but not really necessary at the point given how the card pool has grown since stuff like JTMS was the boogeyman on everyone's mind.
When the "problem" decks have 5% meta share and the police deck has 10%, do we need to rush to fix anything?
I don't feel like the format is languishing. Maybe we could use some better countermagic or filtering, but am I going to stop playing modern if it doesn't get a slight improvement? Nope.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
For that to happen they would need to actually print good cards in Standard though.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
But that's the point, their delusion in thinking that new sets dramatically shake up Modern. We have seen some exceptions here and there, like Nahiri, Kolaghan's Command and Kalitas but most of their newer sets are water down compared to Innistrad or Return to Ravnica. How can we inspect good answers when Mana Leak is deemed too powerful and the best they can come up with is Revolutionary Rebuff? Banning Twin shook up the format more than anything printed in the last year or so.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
it was me, hence why I recognized it
Then let them delude themselves if that means we don't have to cope with reactionary bans and have a healthy and balanced format where ridiculous cards come out of the banlist slow but steady as they fail to impact the format with yet another variation of a green 5/5 for 4. We can always bank on mistakes like CoCo or Treasure Cruise (although that was a rather brutal one) happening and impacting the format.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Also, cards seeing modern (and sometimes legacy) play
And that's pretty much all just EMN.
Anyone who doesn't think Wizards is pushing for Modern needs to take a second look.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Yes, Eldrazi Winter was a thing, but how would it have been if Twin and Bloom were still around? Clearing the way for Eldrazi certainly helped in its success.
Kudos, good sir.
But yeah, recent standard cards are bad and do not impact modern.
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
if you think twin or amulet could beat eldrazi, your a) delusional and b) saying that twin and bloom are more powerful than the most broken modern deck ever, which makes me more glad they got the axe
i can't think of a set since theros block that hasn't contributed staples/playable to the modern pool. khans block brought us tons us stuff, origins brought us stuff, bfz block created the most broken deck in history and still has a tier 1 deck represented by it, shadows has brought us tons us stuff as well. when you say "innistrad/rtr brought us tons of stuff", i hope you realize those blocks brought us about 4 staples combined
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
No new thread needed, although I did update the OP. It's a "no changes" announcement and this current thread is pretty tame at only 100 or so pages. It will stay open until January.
So you going to back that up with anecdotal evidence?
I believe there are 1-2 video series by SCG or channelfireball that do just that. One group gets crushed by eldrazi. One group beats it
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
Nothing anecdotal about it. Twin and blooms worst matchups were decks that could heavily disrupt them with a fast clock to back it up. Eldrazi was exactly this
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Pretty much this,
Here's my hope
Wizards- "We broke these decks as planned, good we can ban something in them now"
Ban - Grave troll dredge is bonkers now
- mutigenic growth or become immense- infect has become harder to intract with or race, and has top 8ed to many times.
And hopefully unbans to shake things up next time around
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I could have worded my initial post a bit better ( I'm on very little sleep ) but the jest of what I'm saying is that Wizards doesn't give us the answers we need to address what
is plaguing Modern. We get nifty stuff to brew and a lot more threats but nothing to really balance the latter out. At least they could give us Counterspell.
Infect has had 4 top 8's since march, jund has had much more than that, do you think jund needs the axe too?
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Confirmed bad matchup for Twin (Bant Eldrazi).
#unbanTwinJanuary
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall