I often found myself struggling to brew any deck with blue and/or red because after a while I would just tell myself "I can't beat twin with this... Might as well just add it to the deck". It pigeon holes the two most popular colors in the format into one deck type.
This is reversed logic. This logic (same one WoTC claimed) affirms that people aren't playing other URx decks because they just play Twin instead. Okay, that's true, but that's because these other decks all suck. You can't play a fair URx deck in this format without a combo. It would be valid if we had URx decks pretty close to tier 1 + some kind of unban to make them stronger. But you just remove a good matchup these decks had, a deck that held random unfair crap in check and expect it to get better?
Sure, you can play your Blue Moon, UR tempo/Delver deck now for lack of a better option. But that doesn't make these decks any better. They were all weak, and if anything they're even weaker now.
I often found myself struggling to brew any deck with blue and/or red because after a while I would just tell myself "I can't beat twin with this... Might as well just add it to the deck". It pigeon holes the two most popular colors in the format into one deck type.
In what way? URx decks tend to actually be pretty darn good against Twin. Delver and Grixis "Control," for example, have positive matchups against it.
Twin was literally one of the best match ups for almost all control decks. Esper, URW, etc. Banning Twin leaves a gaping hole in the metagame, and allows the decks that Twin formerly policed to fill the gap. Then again, the people who are celebrating the Twin ban might be on the receiving end of the next "lets shake up the format" ban. We may as well all just play T3-T2 decks.
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I often found myself struggling to brew any deck with blue and/or red because after a while I would just tell myself "I can't beat twin with this... Might as well just add it to the deck". It pigeon holes the two most popular colors in the format into one deck type.
This is reversed logic. This logic (same one WoTC claimed) affirms that people aren't playing other URx decks because they just play Twin instead. Okay, that's true, but that's because these other decks all suck. You can't play a fair URx deck in this format without a combo. It would be valid if we had URx decks pretty close to tier 1 + some kind of unban to make them stronger. But you just remove a good matchup these decks had, a deck that held random unfair crap in check and expect it to get better?
Sure, you can play your Blue Moon, UR tempo/Delver deck now for lack of a better option. But that doesn't make these decks any better. They were all weak, and if anything they're even weaker now.
My issue with Serum Visions is that its actively bad with fetchlands or other shuffle effects (or rather, the card gets a lot worse if you need to crack a fetch). Opt is pretty innocuous though and would be fine for the format, I think.
So, Ponder and Preordain are bad for blue, but Ancient Stirrings and Oath of Nissa are fair for green? A few years from now Magic players won't even know what the blue color symbol looks like, let alone play blue in their decks.
Boycott PT OGW.
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Decks like Scapeshift, Gifts, UWR Control/Geist just all got *worse*, not better. They lost a good matchup + the bad matchups got a bump. I really don't get the rationale.
Precisely.
I'd like to address two bad arguments that I've seen crop up.
1. "The Splinter Twin ban makes sense, because it allows for more diversity in tempo/control/blue decks."
This relies on a misunderstanding of why diversity exists and why decks are viable (or not viable). Magic is roughly a Rock–Paper–Scissors type of game. An idealized version of a healthy Magic format is: Midrange beats Aggro, Combo and Ramp beat Midrange, Control and Tempo (Aggro-Control) beat Combo and Ramp, and finally Aggro beats Control and Tempo.
However, decks and archetypes are not viable in a vacuum, they are *only* viable because they beat something else. Think of it like this: a format in competitive equilibrium doesn't want to keep the Scissors decks viable just because, instead it "wants" to have as few decks and archetypes as possible. Scarcity, not surplus, is the natural rule.
So, let's say Twin was the best Scissors deck. It could usually beat Paper (Tron and linear Aggro like Infect or Affinity) and lose to Rock (UWR Control, or other blue/control decks; also Jund and other BGx midrange and disruptive decks). When Scissors disappears because of something external to the game (a banning), the Rock decks won't magically step in to fill its role. Instead, they'll become worse because they've lost their natural prey. With Scissors dead, Rock begins to starve, and Paper cleans up.
I know it's a bummer to be brewer and always be told, "If you like blue control, why not play Twin?" but you have to appreciate that Twin is what created the niche for other control decks to exist in the first place. With the major Tempo/Control deck gone, the Ramp, Combo (except Bloom), and linear Aggro (nearly combo decks themselves) decks have nothing to fear.
When the dinosaurs died out, our rat-like mammalian ancestors peaked out of their holes and said, "What's stopping us now?" The answer was nothing.
2. "The Splinter Twin ban makes sense, because WOTC doesn't want a solved format."
This incorrectly implies that Modern was solved or was near to being solved. It was not. In the past year we've seen the competitive ascent of some old decks (Amulet Bloom, Grishoalbrand, Lantern) and we've seen entirely new decks (Eldrazi, CoCo, Grixis) thanks to new cards being printed (BFZ cards, Collected Company, and Tasigur/KCommand/Angler, respectively).
If absolutely no cards had been banned for another year, I guarantee that the meta would have continued to evolve. Slowly and subtlely, yes, but surely. Slow and subtle changes are what we should want for a non-rotating format. (Even chess — considered by some to be a "static" game — has an evolving metagame.) Standard should be fast and drastic, obviously appealing to new players. Modern should be slow and subtle, appealing to players who have been playing for at least two years and who plan to play for many more. The only bad thing about Legacy is its price*, its barrier to entry, not its stability or subtlety.
*And perhaps its lack of color balance. I will go on the record as saying archetype balance (which Legacy has) is far more important than color balance, because balance is only worth having when the things being balanced are inherently different. I'd much rather have a format where, for example, blue control, blue combo, and blue aggro are all viable, than a format with five colors of midrange.
The problem with Serum visions is it's the only playable cantrip. You really need two to get your curve right since there're really not a lot of other things to do on turn 1 except discard.
I think Ponder or Preordain are fine unbans for blue--the slight increase in consistency for storm is fine and would not even push it back to tier 2. Ad Nauseam is the only other concern and it needs a lot more than a better cantrip to make tier 1.
When will this company stop screwing up...
That's twice in a single week now
The best part was reprinting Twin literally just six months ago (along with a bunch of other Twin staples) in MM15, causing great increase in the deck's popularity by lowering the entry price to play. Some great choices right there.
Right now I'm scared for Tron, Affinity, and Infect. They banned Splinter Twin then the next guy on the chopping block is whoever takes first place again. The only real solution is that the game stores would have to start running tournaments without the ban rulings from Wizards and using some other banned card list dictated by a community play group (probably a good idea). This is also coming strait on the heels of Wizards talking about not supporting proxy tournaments for Legacy play, where it may be impossible to get some cards financially or even physically.
I'm not quitting magic because of this, but I'm definitely more inclined to invest in another TCG a bit more that isn't controlled by WoTC. Still got to find a Force of Will playgroup though.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
EDH, on the other hand, is more like a monster truck rally. It's more about the spectacle than the race, the games go long, and it's not usually clear who's in the lead until there's only one truck left.*
Single player EDH is like two guys smacking each other with pillows... until one of them pulls out a shotgun.
Count me in among the "this is the dumbest thing ever"-folks.
Splinter Twin was pretty far from being a dominant deck; it was, perhaps, top three, but nothing obnoxious. And to be able to stop it, you need but play normal Magic: the Gathering cards, such as creature removal; it's not like it attacked from such a unique and hard-to-be-prepared-for angle (unlike Amulet Bloom, which ban I am in agreement with). They cite, among other things, the 2011 Pro Tour Philadelphia win, which surely can't be considered to be in any way relevant to this decision; this is four and a half years ago, in a format quite different from the one we have today, with, among other cards, Ponder and Preordain being legal. Splinter Twin was just another deck you could play. It was one of the better decks in the format, sure, but that really is it. I personally played Twin in Modern for years, including at the aforementioned PT Philly back in '11, but switched decks just a couple months ago (not that I play a whole lot, but I do fire up a League on Modo every once in a while). I hardly felt the deck was busted, and so this ban took me quite by surprise.
Now, they claim that Twin has pushed other playable blue-red or RUG-colored decks out of the metagame. To which I'd say yes and no. Yes, people opt for Twin in these decks because it's just the better deck, but it is better because of the other decks in Modern. Twin is the deck that keeps other combo decks honest; as it is a deck with strong controlling elements, but also with a proactive gameplan, it can handle the various linear decks in the format. You can't expect to ban Twin and suddenly see a load of reactive blue decks taking its place, as the linear decks are too diverse for the controlling decks to realistically have answers for the whole field, or anywhere close to it. Not to mention that the Twin deck itself was arguably the reactive decks' best matchup to begin with.
When you also add the "players invest real money into Modern decks" argument, things start looking quite bad. I've watched people arguing back and forth about this all day, and I haven't seen anything that makes me feel like this wasn't just a dreadful blunder.
Decks like Scapeshift, Gifts, UWR Control/Geist just all got *worse*, not better. They lost a good matchup + the bad matchups got a bump. I really don't get the rationale.
Precisely.
I'd like to address two bad arguments that I've seen crop up.
1. "The Splinter Twin ban makes sense, because it allows for more diversity in tempo/control/blue decks."
This relies on a misunderstanding of why diversity exists and why decks are viable (or not viable). Magic is roughly a Rock–Paper–Scissors type of game. An idealized version of a healthy Magic format is: Midrange beats Aggro, Combo and Ramp beat Midrange, Control and Tempo (Aggro-Control) beat Combo and Ramp, and finally Aggro beats Control and Tempo.
However, decks and archetypes are not viable in a vacuum, they are *only* viable because they beat something else. Think of it like this: a format in competitive equilibrium doesn't want to keep the Scissors decks viable just because, instead it "wants" to have as few decks and archetypes as possible. Scarcity, not surplus, is the natural rule.
So, let's say Twin was the best Scissors deck. It could usually beat Paper (Tron and linear Aggro like Infect or Affinity) and lose to Rock (UWR Control, or other blue/control decks; also Jund and other BGx midrange and disruptive decks). When Scissors disappears because of something external to the game (a banning), the Rock decks won't magically step in to fill its role. Instead, they'll become worse because they've lost their natural prey. With Scissors dead, Rock begins to starve, and Paper cleans up.
I know it's a bummer to be brewer and always be told, "If you like blue control, why not play Twin?" but you have to appreciate that Twin is what created the niche for other control decks to exist in the first place. With the major Tempo/Control deck gone, the Ramp, Combo (except Bloom), and linear Aggro (nearly combo decks themselves) decks have nothing to fear.
When the dinosaurs died out, our rat-like mammalian ancestors peaked out of their holes and said, "What's stopping us now?" The answer was nothing.
2. "The Splinter Twin ban makes sense, because WOTC doesn't want a solved format."
This incorrectly implies that Modern was solved or was near to being solved. It was not. In the past year we've seen the competitive ascent of some old decks (Amulet Bloom, Grishoalbrand, Lantern) and we've seen entirely new decks (Eldrazi, CoCo, Grixis) thanks to new cards being printed (BFZ cards, Collected Company, and Tasigur/KCommand/Angler, respectively).
If absolutely no cards had been banned for another year, I guarantee that the meta would have continued to evolve. Slowly and subtlely, yes, but surely. Slow and subtle changes are what we should want for a non-rotating format. (Even chess — considered by some to be a "static" game — has an evolving metagame.) Standard should be fast and drastic, obviously appealing to new players. Modern should be slow and subtle, appealing to players who have been playing for at least two years and who plan to play for many more. The only bad thing about Legacy is its price*, its barrier to entry, not its stability or subtlety.
*And perhaps its lack of color balance. I will go on the record as saying archetype balance (which Legacy has) is far more important than color balance, because balance is only worth having when the things being balanced are inherently different. I'd much rather have a format where, for example, blue control, blue combo, and blue aggro are all viable, than a format with five colors of midrange.
I haven't read the thread yet, but I imagine it is a lot of people who agree with me and a lot of people who don't. I have to say that I am kinda done with this format for a while- at least spending money on events, singles, or sealed product. In hind site I was wrong about how right the Pod ban was, and I may be wrong about this Twin ban too (I really doubt it), but the idea that the format going forward is going to just ban the best deck even if it is not decreasing the variety of other decks, winning regularly before turn 4, or otherwise dominating a significant number of top 8's (IMO). Even if the recent history of the format had GPs with a little more twin than is ideal, the metagame could have easily adapted and changed that.
All this ban does is make people concerned about their deck if it does well. Not too well, not warping the meta, just well. I wouldn't recommend anyone buy into a deck that has proven to be a solid aspect of the metagame for any amount of time. Infect...no way. In no format should the discussion about a deck ever involve people hoping no one does well with their deck during a big even just because the deck had done well on the two previous. I know that is hyperbole, but I have seen it a couple of times in a couple of archetype threads, and this just exacerbates that. You know what deck will get a big ban next? The best one...for no other apparent reason. A non-rotating format should have people cheering for their favorite deck, not hoping that it doesn't get too high profile.
You know what's great about non-rotating formats? Buying in to a deck and being reasonbly sure that as long as your deck is not breaking one of the core tenants of the format it will be a deck you can pilot for a long while. With bans like Splinter Twin they have introduced a defacto rotation into Modern that is all the worse for being unpredictable.
I have been a ******* cheerleader for this format since day one, and have respected most of the bans so far even if I did not agree with them. I can't see myself doing that as much anymore. All I can do make my voice heard (I will be writing to the appropriate places) and vote with my wallet. As I have said to other people many times, if my view is in the majority and people do the same then Wizards will respond, and if my view is in the minority or people don't do the same then I guess the format has just left me behind. I am not pissing on my collection and then lighting it on fire, but my money is not going to be used to support it. It is simply a matter of do I want to put money into a format that does not make me feel good to support? Why would I?
Really sucks, too. I've long hated Limited, I never wanted to play Legacy really, I lost my faith in EDH with the tuck rule change, and I only half-assed play Standard ever because a buddy of mine does and wants me to go to FNM with him. Magic really has no formats left that I am willing to say that I support, at this point.
Other stuff:
Bloom Ban: Probably the right call, though I would never have objected to a Hive Mind ban as well on pure principle.
No SFM Unban: Yea, I expected as much. I just wish a ban on people talking about an unban came down as well.
No SotM unban: After the Splinter Twin ban I have zero faith that any card that might be used for a combo win, even if the deck that runs it is a Control deck, will come off the ban list.
I'm definitely not done with the format myself. Yes Twin was my primary deck that I sunk a lot of money into, but along the way I also built BW Tokens and Burn. Plus, I can swap over my URx shell into Delver or Control, or... something? At least I have things to play. I'm not a GP grinder and the only play I see is 4-5 rounds of local FNM-style play once a week. Regionals is coming up in a few weeks (which is also Modern), but I guess I'm just playing Burn there. Makes my choice easy.
DrWorm, you are definitely not alone on that one. Oh man are you not alone on that one.
The whole point of modern was that cards wouldn't rotate and even if prices are really high on some cards, once you owned them you were good for life (well, the life of that card, anyway. Deck protectors my friends! Beer and nacho cheese does not the healthy card make). Now we really don't have that anymore. Who knows, maybe that is what wizards wants now.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I also like brewing. But if you talked about brewing something with UR, you had better have a good reason why it wasn't playing twin or people will whine at you about it, because Twin was just better than most other things you could try to do. If you wanted to play a combo, you'd get asked, is it as good as twin though, why don't you just play twin instead?
This is true about all prospective decks in comparison to the currently good decks. Why make a ramp deck that isn't Tron? Why make a midrange deck that isn't Jund or Junk?
This isn't even just Standard. Why make an aggro deck that isn't Atarka Red? Note that this isn't to say there aren't good answers to these questions, but in all formats you need a reason why your deck is worth playing in comparison to the already good decks in the format.
Balance can be improved, it isn't just something to be given up on because making it absolutely perfect is impossible.
But most of all, I think banning twin is going to lead to a ton of new bans I think would be good...
Twin was a police deck, but it warped the format in the above noted ways, and without the twin police, other decks with broken cards and combos will start destroying the metagame and finally get some well deserved bans, stuff that is broken but 'oh, it's needed to keep twin in check' or 'twin keeps it in check' can now start eating bans.
So we should be happy because a ban will lead to... more bans. Hooray.
I'm also hopeful this will help drive down speculation and prices in Modern, as it scares out of the format people who only buy a single competitive deck, thinking of it as an 'investment' into the format, rather than seeing the format like I see it, a place to brew around with older cards that is fairer and more affordable than places like Legacy and Vintage. Keeping up the ban fears helps fight aggressive speculation of cards that might otherwise place in tournaments heavily due to being overpowered.
Except the people who buy only a single competitive deck aren't the ones responsible for the speculation and prices. They buy one deck and stick with it. The reason prices are going up is because people are getting more decks, either due to them already having a deck and thinking "that other deck looks good! I gotta have it!" and then buying those cards or a new player wanting to enter the format and needing a deck to play, and if one deck is off the table it just means they'd get another instead and sticking with that one. People who stick with a deck aren't the cause of rising prices because they're not giving demand; they're happy with their current decks. I suppose you can argue that it will keep prices in check because people will look at the bans and think "uh-oh, things aren't safe. I don't want to enter this format at all" thereby lowering demand due to fewer people playing. But that somehow seems counterproductive.
In fact, this could easily make the format more expensive, because you have the same issue as Standard in that you have to constantly buy new cards to stay competitive because cards in your deck aren't legal anymore. But Standard lets you know very well ahead of time when cards will be removed from the format rather than telling you one week ahead of time.
No, the people who buy a single competitive deck are the reason prices can get so high, because they are only investing in a single deck, they are willing to pay more for each individual card, so speculators can raise the prices on those cards if it is from a deck that the people who only buy a single deck think the deck is powerful and secure enough an investment. If people don't think decks are 'safe' and 'top' at the same time, then they won't go for high priced cards, and speculators will be unable to make a profit from anyone but collectors or eternal format players. I think Modern should be the speculator free format due to a more generous reprint policy, with much lower prices than it currently has, but dominance of 'sure' decks makes people willing to pay speculator prices.
I'm not done with the format, but it has absolutely reduced my interest and confidence in the format. I'd much rather axe the Pro Tour than Twin.
If this is the "cost" of having a Modern Pro Tour, then I absolutely agree with you. What happens after, in a few years, several other T1 decks have been banned in the name of "spicing things up" simply because they were good? Not great, not overbearing, just good. Are we just playing Super Standard at that point?
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Modern Decks WUBEsper ControlBUW URStormRU RGForest BelcherGR
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I probably going to take a break from magic for a while. I'll play with some friends, but I don't plan on supporting wizards in this decision. WotC cards more about "good" coverage, wanting new decks, instead of good commentary. They care nothing of the actual health of the Modern format, only in the number of eyes they can get on the PT. Hopefully my fears are proven to be unfounded, and Modern turns into a new brewers paradise, but I want to see how the format shakes out before I get anywhere near it.
I also like brewing. But if you talked about brewing something with UR, you had better have a good reason why it wasn't playing twin or people will whine at you about it, because Twin was just better than most other things you could try to do. If you wanted to play a combo, you'd get asked, is it as good as twin though, why don't you just play twin instead?
This is true about all prospective decks in comparison to the currently good decks. Why make a ramp deck that isn't Tron? Why make a midrange deck that isn't Jund or Junk?
This isn't even just Standard. Why make an aggro deck that isn't Atarka Red? Note that this isn't to say there aren't good answers to these questions, but in all formats you need a reason why your deck is worth playing in comparison to the already good decks in the format.
Balance can be improved, it isn't just something to be given up on because making it absolutely perfect is impossible.
A rebuttal that's unrelated to what I said. What in the world does what I just said have to do with anything you said here?
No, the people who buy a single competitive deck are the reason prices can get so high, because they are only investing in a single deck, they are willing to pay more for each individual card, so speculators can raise the prices on those cards if it is from a deck that the people who only buy a single deck think the deck is powerful and secure enough an investment. If people don't think decks are 'safe' and 'top' at the same time, then they won't go for high priced cards, and speculators will be unable to make a profit from anyone but collectors or eternal format players. I think Modern should be the speculator free format due to a more generous reprint policy, with much lower prices than it currently has, but dominance of 'sure' decks makes people willing to pay speculator prices.
If the goal is to scare people off like that, that just means they won't play the format at all; I sure know I wouldn't want to choose between "good deck" and "deck that won't get banned." To be fair, people not playing the format could make prices drop, but I hardly think that's the way to fix things.
So, Ponder and Preordain are bad for blue, but Ancient Stirrings and Oath of Nissa are fair for green? A few years from now Magic players won't even know what the blue color symbol looks like, let alone play blue in their decks.
Boycott PT OGW.
It's almost like grabbing any card and grabbing a colorless card/creature card are totally different effects....
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I played cascade swans when they banned bloodbraid elf, storm when the banned seething song, amulet when they banned summer bloom, and splinter twin when they banned it's namesake.
I am a little mad, and very concerned about the format. I have done a little research on wizards of the coast employees and have started sending this message to their Facebook pages, and I'll probibly do more. I just don't think R&D reads any of our comments or looks at the voter polls on other similar threads or we would see different results. Here is the message I have started sending out incase any others would echo it.
Hello, I am a long time mtg player and this is the 4th time I have been hit by a ban in the modern format. I very much enjoy the game but I and many others are concerned about the direction of the modern format. I and many others are calling for a larger card pool and unbannings while the format is continually seeing more bannings. Some decks or cards need bans, like summer bloom, but other decks that have been fine for years suddenly get banned and that seems unnessesary. The desire for a larger card pool is manifesting in the form of "no ban list modern" tourneys which are taking place in small but growing numbers. Your actions are resulting in lowering confidence in the stability of the format, and descouraging me and others from buying into the format or buying modern masters product because you may ban a key piece from a deck to spice up a pro tour.
I and others belive the answere is instead of continually banning cards from the most powerful decks, which will never stop because there will always be a most powerful deck, is to let the power level slowly rise. This would result in a exciting pro tour due to the shiny new card and decks it spawns instead of the lack of an old favorite due to a ban and the hostility that comes with bans.
I hope this is taken as constructive criticism from a friend that wants to continue to play the game with fun and joy instead of fear and a dark cloud hanging over every game I win worrying if my decks performance will result in a ban. Thank you for your time.
I was thinking this was a bit of a reckless decision and based on flawed interpretation of meta game shares before. Now I'm seeing suggestions that wotc did this to since up the pro tour and I'm absolutely furious. How the **** can you tell anyone "buy into modern, it's going to cost you around a grand give or take a few hundred dollars, and hopefully you can play your deck for more than a year and wizards doesn't decide to ban it just to shake things up for pro tour viewers". That's the kind of ***** you do for a format where prices allow you to easily switch decks on a dime, that's not something you do for a format where we're sometimes paying hundreds of dollars for a play set of one ******* card.
What a stupid, stupid thing to do. GTFO of my format wizards
For all those citing websites in regards to twin's metashare I'm pretty sure that wizards has way more data on the subject than those sites. On the twin banning I feel in my opinion it was right. I feel that infinite combos have no place in any tcg, not just magic. I also disliked the fact that the most efficient answers to the combo were very color specific.
I am honestly surprised by both bannings. I never thought either deck was much a problem. Sure bloom titan could be a little explosive at times, but that was only small percentage of the time. I think wizards has lost their head.
This is reversed logic. This logic (same one WoTC claimed) affirms that people aren't playing other URx decks because they just play Twin instead. Okay, that's true, but that's because these other decks all suck. You can't play a fair URx deck in this format without a combo. It would be valid if we had URx decks pretty close to tier 1 + some kind of unban to make them stronger. But you just remove a good matchup these decks had, a deck that held random unfair crap in check and expect it to get better?
Sure, you can play your Blue Moon, UR tempo/Delver deck now for lack of a better option. But that doesn't make these decks any better. They were all weak, and if anything they're even weaker now.
Twin was literally one of the best match ups for almost all control decks. Esper, URW, etc. Banning Twin leaves a gaping hole in the metagame, and allows the decks that Twin formerly policed to fill the gap. Then again, the people who are celebrating the Twin ban might be on the receiving end of the next "lets shake up the format" ban. We may as well all just play T3-T2 decks.
WUBEsper ControlBUW
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Exactly this.
Boycott PT OGW.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Precisely.
I'd like to address two bad arguments that I've seen crop up.
1. "The Splinter Twin ban makes sense, because it allows for more diversity in tempo/control/blue decks."
This relies on a misunderstanding of why diversity exists and why decks are viable (or not viable). Magic is roughly a Rock–Paper–Scissors type of game. An idealized version of a healthy Magic format is: Midrange beats Aggro, Combo and Ramp beat Midrange, Control and Tempo (Aggro-Control) beat Combo and Ramp, and finally Aggro beats Control and Tempo.
However, decks and archetypes are not viable in a vacuum, they are *only* viable because they beat something else. Think of it like this: a format in competitive equilibrium doesn't want to keep the Scissors decks viable just because, instead it "wants" to have as few decks and archetypes as possible. Scarcity, not surplus, is the natural rule.
So, let's say Twin was the best Scissors deck. It could usually beat Paper (Tron and linear Aggro like Infect or Affinity) and lose to Rock (UWR Control, or other blue/control decks; also Jund and other BGx midrange and disruptive decks). When Scissors disappears because of something external to the game (a banning), the Rock decks won't magically step in to fill its role. Instead, they'll become worse because they've lost their natural prey. With Scissors dead, Rock begins to starve, and Paper cleans up.
I know it's a bummer to be brewer and always be told, "If you like blue control, why not play Twin?" but you have to appreciate that Twin is what created the niche for other control decks to exist in the first place. With the major Tempo/Control deck gone, the Ramp, Combo (except Bloom), and linear Aggro (nearly combo decks themselves) decks have nothing to fear.
When the dinosaurs died out, our rat-like mammalian ancestors peaked out of their holes and said, "What's stopping us now?" The answer was nothing.
2. "The Splinter Twin ban makes sense, because WOTC doesn't want a solved format."
This incorrectly implies that Modern was solved or was near to being solved. It was not. In the past year we've seen the competitive ascent of some old decks (Amulet Bloom, Grishoalbrand, Lantern) and we've seen entirely new decks (Eldrazi, CoCo, Grixis) thanks to new cards being printed (BFZ cards, Collected Company, and Tasigur/KCommand/Angler, respectively).
If absolutely no cards had been banned for another year, I guarantee that the meta would have continued to evolve. Slowly and subtlely, yes, but surely. Slow and subtle changes are what we should want for a non-rotating format. (Even chess — considered by some to be a "static" game — has an evolving metagame.) Standard should be fast and drastic, obviously appealing to new players. Modern should be slow and subtle, appealing to players who have been playing for at least two years and who plan to play for many more. The only bad thing about Legacy is its price*, its barrier to entry, not its stability or subtlety.
*And perhaps its lack of color balance. I will go on the record as saying archetype balance (which Legacy has) is far more important than color balance, because balance is only worth having when the things being balanced are inherently different. I'd much rather have a format where, for example, blue control, blue combo, and blue aggro are all viable, than a format with five colors of midrange.
I think Ponder or Preordain are fine unbans for blue--the slight increase in consistency for storm is fine and would not even push it back to tier 2. Ad Nauseam is the only other concern and it needs a lot more than a better cantrip to make tier 1.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Right now I'm scared for Tron, Affinity, and Infect. They banned Splinter Twin then the next guy on the chopping block is whoever takes first place again. The only real solution is that the game stores would have to start running tournaments without the ban rulings from Wizards and using some other banned card list dictated by a community play group (probably a good idea). This is also coming strait on the heels of Wizards talking about not supporting proxy tournaments for Legacy play, where it may be impossible to get some cards financially or even physically.
I'm not quitting magic because of this, but I'm definitely more inclined to invest in another TCG a bit more that isn't controlled by WoTC. Still got to find a Force of Will playgroup though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
On building a Celestial Kirin Stax EDH:
Splinter Twin was pretty far from being a dominant deck; it was, perhaps, top three, but nothing obnoxious. And to be able to stop it, you need but play normal Magic: the Gathering cards, such as creature removal; it's not like it attacked from such a unique and hard-to-be-prepared-for angle (unlike Amulet Bloom, which ban I am in agreement with). They cite, among other things, the 2011 Pro Tour Philadelphia win, which surely can't be considered to be in any way relevant to this decision; this is four and a half years ago, in a format quite different from the one we have today, with, among other cards, Ponder and Preordain being legal. Splinter Twin was just another deck you could play. It was one of the better decks in the format, sure, but that really is it. I personally played Twin in Modern for years, including at the aforementioned PT Philly back in '11, but switched decks just a couple months ago (not that I play a whole lot, but I do fire up a League on Modo every once in a while). I hardly felt the deck was busted, and so this ban took me quite by surprise.
Now, they claim that Twin has pushed other playable blue-red or RUG-colored decks out of the metagame. To which I'd say yes and no. Yes, people opt for Twin in these decks because it's just the better deck, but it is better because of the other decks in Modern. Twin is the deck that keeps other combo decks honest; as it is a deck with strong controlling elements, but also with a proactive gameplan, it can handle the various linear decks in the format. You can't expect to ban Twin and suddenly see a load of reactive blue decks taking its place, as the linear decks are too diverse for the controlling decks to realistically have answers for the whole field, or anywhere close to it. Not to mention that the Twin deck itself was arguably the reactive decks' best matchup to begin with.
When you also add the "players invest real money into Modern decks" argument, things start looking quite bad. I've watched people arguing back and forth about this all day, and I haven't seen anything that makes me feel like this wasn't just a dreadful blunder.
Probably the best post I've read on this so far.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
All this ban does is make people concerned about their deck if it does well. Not too well, not warping the meta, just well. I wouldn't recommend anyone buy into a deck that has proven to be a solid aspect of the metagame for any amount of time. Infect...no way. In no format should the discussion about a deck ever involve people hoping no one does well with their deck during a big even just because the deck had done well on the two previous. I know that is hyperbole, but I have seen it a couple of times in a couple of archetype threads, and this just exacerbates that. You know what deck will get a big ban next? The best one...for no other apparent reason. A non-rotating format should have people cheering for their favorite deck, not hoping that it doesn't get too high profile.
You know what's great about non-rotating formats? Buying in to a deck and being reasonbly sure that as long as your deck is not breaking one of the core tenants of the format it will be a deck you can pilot for a long while. With bans like Splinter Twin they have introduced a defacto rotation into Modern that is all the worse for being unpredictable.
I have been a ******* cheerleader for this format since day one, and have respected most of the bans so far even if I did not agree with them. I can't see myself doing that as much anymore. All I can do make my voice heard (I will be writing to the appropriate places) and vote with my wallet. As I have said to other people many times, if my view is in the majority and people do the same then Wizards will respond, and if my view is in the minority or people don't do the same then I guess the format has just left me behind. I am not pissing on my collection and then lighting it on fire, but my money is not going to be used to support it. It is simply a matter of do I want to put money into a format that does not make me feel good to support? Why would I?
Really sucks, too. I've long hated Limited, I never wanted to play Legacy really, I lost my faith in EDH with the tuck rule change, and I only half-assed play Standard ever because a buddy of mine does and wants me to go to FNM with him. Magic really has no formats left that I am willing to say that I support, at this point.
Other stuff:
Bloom Ban: Probably the right call, though I would never have objected to a Hive Mind ban as well on pure principle.
No SFM Unban: Yea, I expected as much. I just wish a ban on people talking about an unban came down as well.
No SotM unban: After the Splinter Twin ban I have zero faith that any card that might be used for a combo win, even if the deck that runs it is a Control deck, will come off the ban list.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
The whole point of modern was that cards wouldn't rotate and even if prices are really high on some cards, once you owned them you were good for life (well, the life of that card, anyway. Deck protectors my friends! Beer and nacho cheese does not the healthy card make). Now we really don't have that anymore. Who knows, maybe that is what wizards wants now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
No, the people who buy a single competitive deck are the reason prices can get so high, because they are only investing in a single deck, they are willing to pay more for each individual card, so speculators can raise the prices on those cards if it is from a deck that the people who only buy a single deck think the deck is powerful and secure enough an investment. If people don't think decks are 'safe' and 'top' at the same time, then they won't go for high priced cards, and speculators will be unable to make a profit from anyone but collectors or eternal format players. I think Modern should be the speculator free format due to a more generous reprint policy, with much lower prices than it currently has, but dominance of 'sure' decks makes people willing to pay speculator prices.
If this is the "cost" of having a Modern Pro Tour, then I absolutely agree with you. What happens after, in a few years, several other T1 decks have been banned in the name of "spicing things up" simply because they were good? Not great, not overbearing, just good. Are we just playing Super Standard at that point?
WUBEsper ControlBUW
URStormRU
RGForest BelcherGR
To-Do List
WModern Death and TaxesW
WLegacy Death and TaxesW
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
If the goal is to scare people off like that, that just means they won't play the format at all; I sure know I wouldn't want to choose between "good deck" and "deck that won't get banned." To be fair, people not playing the format could make prices drop, but I hardly think that's the way to fix things.
"We look for competitively viable decks that frequently win before the fourth turn."
"Competitively viable" is a lot different standard for comparison than has been assumed in the past.
It's almost like grabbing any card and grabbing a colorless card/creature card are totally different effects....
I am a little mad, and very concerned about the format. I have done a little research on wizards of the coast employees and have started sending this message to their Facebook pages, and I'll probibly do more. I just don't think R&D reads any of our comments or looks at the voter polls on other similar threads or we would see different results. Here is the message I have started sending out incase any others would echo it.
Hello, I am a long time mtg player and this is the 4th time I have been hit by a ban in the modern format. I very much enjoy the game but I and many others are concerned about the direction of the modern format. I and many others are calling for a larger card pool and unbannings while the format is continually seeing more bannings. Some decks or cards need bans, like summer bloom, but other decks that have been fine for years suddenly get banned and that seems unnessesary. The desire for a larger card pool is manifesting in the form of "no ban list modern" tourneys which are taking place in small but growing numbers. Your actions are resulting in lowering confidence in the stability of the format, and descouraging me and others from buying into the format or buying modern masters product because you may ban a key piece from a deck to spice up a pro tour.
I and others belive the answere is instead of continually banning cards from the most powerful decks, which will never stop because there will always be a most powerful deck, is to let the power level slowly rise. This would result in a exciting pro tour due to the shiny new card and decks it spawns instead of the lack of an old favorite due to a ban and the hostility that comes with bans.
I hope this is taken as constructive criticism from a friend that wants to continue to play the game with fun and joy instead of fear and a dark cloud hanging over every game I win worrying if my decks performance will result in a ban. Thank you for your time.
What a stupid, stupid thing to do. GTFO of my format wizards
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)