Yeah I am pondering picking up a second copy before it is completely sold out because it is hilarious when it unexpectedly comes down against Infect/Twin/Affinity. Still not sure if it's worth running 2 copies though. Wouldn't something like Damnation be better for the mana cost?
It's much better than Damnation for its particular purpose, because it stops your opponent from just untapping, buffing a manland, and killing you anyways.
I've seen a few lists running 2x Damnation or All is Dust and 2x NoSB, and I think that's where you want to be in terms of Sweepers. I'm also going to experiment with Ratchet Bomb, because it comes down earlier than Damnation/AiDs and can deal with problematic non-creatures as well.
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Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Takes control over X creature w/ Eldrazi Obligator, use the opponent creature, then Path to Exile on controlled creatured then exile it and take a basic land for me.
I currently have one spot open and am willing to take out 1-2 wasteland stranglers for early game interaction. Looking for something proactive, potentially despise, or upping the numbers of IOK or duress. Once OGW comes out I can see taking out a combination of nihil spellbomb and wasteland strangler for thought-knot seer. Anyone like running spellskite in the main?
This may be a dumb question - but with the release of OGW focusing on colourless matters. Have people focused on a colourless version with a splash of Devoid.
Yeah I am pondering picking up a second copy before it is completely sold out because it is hilarious when it unexpectedly comes down against Infect/Twin/Affinity. Still not sure if it's worth running 2 copies though. Wouldn't something like Damnation be better for the mana cost?
It's much better than Damnation for its particular purpose, because it stops your opponent from just untapping, buffing a manland, and killing you anyways.
I've seen a few lists running 2x Damnation or All is Dust and 2x NoSB, and I think that's where you want to be in terms of Sweepers. I'm also going to experiment with Ratchet Bomb, because it comes down earlier than Damnation/AiDs and can deal with problematic non-creatures as well.
At best, Dust cost minimally 4 mana (tapped lands) and isn't always guaranteed. I feel like Damnation has a larger threat range. No worry about the cost changing, and you hit artifacts and other Eldrazi. I'm looking at you mirror match.
I'd rather have a 1-sided sweeper that also kills enchantments and planeswalkers than a symmetrical sweeper that always kills our guys. The only other colorless decks are Tron, where we don't really want sweepers anyway, and affinity, where we have Flaying Tendrils and Night of Soul's Betrayal and Ratchet Bomb, so we'd be running Damnation pretty much entirely for the mirror.
I currently have one spot open and am willing to take out 1-2 wasteland stranglers for early game interaction. Looking for something proactive, potentially despise, or upping the numbers of IOK or duress. Once OGW comes out I can see taking out a combination of nihil spellbomb and wasteland strangler for thought-knot seer. Anyone like running spellskite in the main?
If you're only running blue for Eldrazi Skyspawner there is no way you're playing a better deck than just mono black. Your mana is MUCH MUCH worse for a 2/1 flier that comes with a scion, that's incredibly low upside. If you're going in on blue you should at *least* be looking at Nullfier, Delay, Ashiok, etc.
Yeah I am pondering picking up a second copy before it is completely sold out because it is hilarious when it unexpectedly comes down against Infect/Twin/Affinity. Still not sure if it's worth running 2 copies though. Wouldn't something like Damnation be better for the mana cost?
It's much better than Damnation for its particular purpose, because it stops your opponent from just untapping, buffing a manland, and killing you anyways.
I've seen a few lists running 2x Damnation or All is Dust and 2x NoSB, and I think that's where you want to be in terms of Sweepers. I'm also going to experiment with Ratchet Bomb, because it comes down earlier than Damnation/AiDs and can deal with problematic non-creatures as well.
At best, Dust cost minimally 4 mana (tapped lands) and isn't always guaranteed. I feel like Damnation has a larger threat range. No worry about the cost changing, and you hit artifacts and other Eldrazi. I'm looking at you mirror match.
All is Dust and Languish are both significantly better than damnation in this deck. We do not care about large creatures. We don't. X/5s do not matter to us like they do to other decks. Sweepers should be focused on getting rid of small things while spot removal, discard, and our own giant creatures can focus on big things. Killing your opponents Siege Rhino isn't great if you have to also kill your own Oblivion Sower.
At best, Dust cost minimally 4 mana (tapped lands) and isn't always guaranteed. I feel like Damnation has a larger threat range. No worry about the cost changing, and you hit artifacts and other Eldrazi. I'm looking at you mirror match.
I don't think All is Dust is necessarily the "better card" currently I run a split 1 All is Dust MB and 1 Damnation SB. It has worked very well for me. The key fact is that my average Dust is a 5 CMC Garruk's Wake that also kills all other non-land permanents they own (including things like Keranos). That affect is just 1 sided, dumb and just another way to either bring the game back to parity or seal it out if you were at parity or are ahead.
This may be a dumb question - but with the release of OGW focusing on colourless matters. Have people focused on a colourless version with a splash of Devoid.
The trouble is that we got a huge repertoire of new cards and decks bending over backwards trying to fit them in at the moment and test. Right now the most important thing to remember is what kind of foundation you originally built the deck on and tweak it with the new cards, rather than trying to build around these new cards. All of them are powerful, but they are options swimming in a sea of modern playable cards that have been battle tested and proven. Out of all the new cards the one that really seems to stand out is probably Thought-Knot Seer for us. Reality Smasher will probably see play in other types of decks and possibly could see legacy play, so it's a good pick up monetary wise, but probably not a must include except as a possible sideboard against a removal happy player.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ratchet Bomb blows up all the 0 cost cards they play. Pithing Needle is pretty annoying for them as well. Oddly enough the eldrazi deck doesn't have many permanents that have the same low CMC that affinity runs, so it's a pretty good one way blow out with the bomb.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ratchet Bomb blows up all the 0 cost cards they play. Pithing Needle is pretty annoying for them as well. Oddly enough the eldrazi deck doesn't have many permanents that have the same low CMC that affinity runs, so it's a pretty good one way blow out with the bomb.
These, and I'd imagine that some of the problems are improved by OGW as well like the new removal spells, the new exile sweeper, etc. It's really not that bad of a matchup if you're prepared for it. If you're one of the durdley super ramp mono black decks then it's bad, but none of these decks look the same.
Agreed, although I'm personally waiting to pick up the Thought-Knot Seer because I think it will come down since it is really only useful in this archetype... Might not see much play outside of Modern. I do think it is worth picking up a set of Reality Smasher, Sea Gate Wreckage, and Warping Wail for cards that might be good in these decks but also as potential future specs. Smasher could see similar play as Newlamog as 1 or 2 ofs in Tron lists in addition to Eldrazi and will probably see a lot of Standard play. Sea Gate is a 1-of in most Eldrazi lists IMO and might be a big player down the line for all formats. Wail is getting a lot of hype in Legacy/Vintage as well as having a place in some modern decks.
After thinking a bit and goldfishing various ideas, here are some thoughts about where BR Eldrazi might be going:
I think what everyone has been trying to do with the red splash is leverage Lightning Bolt to play a more aggressive game. Before, this was a tough thing to do because (1) you had nothing at the 4-drop, and (2) Oblivion Sower and Ulamog were the best finishers you could play, but those don't lend themselves well to shorter games. Both these challenges have answers in OGW: Thought-Knot Seer solves (1) and Reality Smasher solves (2), and they curve into each other perfectly. I think Blight Herder is still good here as a kind of Grave Titan, even if you don't have a ridiculous bomb to ramp into. You can still often turn the Scion tokens into another Seer or Smasher, and having 7 power spread across 4 bodies is just intrinsically good, even if you don't use the Scion tokens for mana. So what you're cutting is the Oblivion Sower and Ulamog. This seems fine for a lower-to-the-ground deck, since those cards were the most awkward if you didn't have enough acceleration. Now we are only playing cards that aren't mediocre if you are forced to cast them on curve.
As I've mentioned before, I want to keep the midrange game plan intact. We are trying to be more aggressive the same way that Jund tries to be more aggressive than the other BGx decks - i.e. just a little more aggressive. So I don't want to shave removal or discard, even with Thought-Knot Seer. Having the turn 1 disruption is just too important, and overloading on discard makes it more likely that Reality Smasher will get there.
With all these colorless cards, Sulfurous Springs then becomes a necessity.
I'd rather have a 1-sided sweeper that also kills enchantments and planeswalkers than a symmetrical sweeper that always kills our guys. The only other colorless decks are Tron, where we don't really want sweepers anyway, and affinity, where we have Flaying Tendrils and Night of Soul's Betrayal and Ratchet Bomb, so we'd be running Damnation pretty much entirely for the mirror.
Thanks guys, that's why I ask, very good insight. I think I'm going to follow Exatraz and do a 1:1 split to start. I really like the idea of taking out Keranos and Plainswalkers, not something I really considered.
I'm not sure if it has been considered or mentioned yet, but another good sideboard card (at least for Mono B)... Chalice of the Void? Set for 0 slows down Affinity and shuts down Pacts. Set for 1 against Burn and Infect?
Edit: I guess 1 also shuts down IoK and Thoughtseize... Man, and Relic. Maybe not the best card for us.
I'm not sure if it has been considered or mentioned yet, but another good sideboard card (at least for Mono B)... Chalice of the Void? Set for 0 slows down Affinity and shuts down Pacts. Set for 1 against Burn and Infect?
Edit: I guess 1 also shuts down IoK and Thoughtseize...
...and Relic and Spellbomb and Path/Bolt and Surgical if you're running that. I don't think we can play Chalice.
I'm not sure if it has been considered or mentioned yet, but another good sideboard card (at least for Mono B)... Chalice of the Void? Set for 0 slows down Affinity and shuts down Pacts. Set for 1 against Burn and Infect?
Edit: I guess 1 also shuts down IoK and Thoughtseize...
And Relic, Claws, Map, etc.
It's a good card, but probably not right for a processor build of the deck. I could see it fit into a non-processor version of the deck that doesn't rely on most of those.
Yup, immediately remembered why it's a terrible card for us after posting. LOL. Really I was just thinking about the 0 setting for Affinity and Bloom (if it is still here after the 18th), but it's probably not worth it over Ratchet Bomb and NoSB/AiD.
I'd rather have a 1-sided sweeper that also kills enchantments and planeswalkers than a symmetrical sweeper that always kills our guys. The only other colorless decks are Tron, where we don't really want sweepers anyway, and affinity, where we have Flaying Tendrils and Night of Soul's Betrayal and Ratchet Bomb, so we'd be running Damnation pretty much entirely for the mirror.
Thanks guys, that's why I ask, very good insight. I think I'm going to follow Exatraz and do a 1:1 split to start. I really like the idea of taking out Keranos and Plainswalkers, not something I really considered.
Primary reason I split is because Dust can cost too much to save you before you get it out. Damnation/languish can be played at pretty much the latest moment you can spare on the worst board states (example you get to untap on T4 against Elves and need to board clear through an Ezuri. I am with folks that Languish is probably more optimal because it allows our things to live, but I already own a Full Art Damnation so I'm gonna use it.
Haven't put much of a SB together yet, but I think Something to help with burn 2 Ruin Processor, Tron I should be cool with, Infect can be doable, Goofy is no problem hahaha. I can Extract their Lingering or Seige Rhino if i rip it from their hand Probably a good idea for lili too. Affinity Ratchet bomb...
Colorless eldrazi. Take that Burn, Infect and Tron. What do you think ?
I noticed you aren't running any 1 CMC spells and immediately was going to say you should be running chalice.. and then I saw you were. Chalice on 1 too good.
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It's much better than Damnation for its particular purpose, because it stops your opponent from just untapping, buffing a manland, and killing you anyways.
I've seen a few lists running 2x Damnation or All is Dust and 2x NoSB, and I think that's where you want to be in terms of Sweepers. I'm also going to experiment with Ratchet Bomb, because it comes down earlier than Damnation/AiDs and can deal with problematic non-creatures as well.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Takes control over X creature w/ Eldrazi Obligator, use the opponent creature, then Path to Exile on controlled creatured then exile it and take a basic land for me.
Is it possible?
Ditto. I'll be changing some small numbers around here and there but overall this looks really solid.
Creatures (18)
1 spellskite
3 wasteland strangler
4 eldrazi skyspawner
4 blight herder
4 oblivion sower
2 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
Sorceries (5)
3 inquisition of kozilek
2 duress
Instants (4)
1 go for the throat
3 dismember
Artifacts (8)
2 expedition map
2 nihil spellbomb
4 relic of progenitus
Lands (24)
4 eye of ugin
4 eldrazi temple
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
5 swamp
4 island
1 polluted delta
1 sunken hollow
2 watery grave
1 ghost quarter
I currently have one spot open and am willing to take out 1-2 wasteland stranglers for early game interaction. Looking for something proactive, potentially despise, or upping the numbers of IOK or duress. Once OGW comes out I can see taking out a combination of nihil spellbomb and wasteland strangler for thought-knot seer. Anyone like running spellskite in the main?
With the release of Corrupted Crossroads to allow the deck to cast Devoid spells,Cavern of Souls to cast coloured Eldrazi (that can't be countered) and Unknown Shores to cast sideboared regular coloured cards (albeit a cost). This allows the deck to run more focus on colourless matter cards (like Endbringer Thought-Knot Seer Spatial Contortion, Warping Wail, Reality Smasher and whatever broken colourless matter cards they print.
Thoughts?
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
Is All is Dust really better than Damnation??
At best, Dust cost minimally 4 mana (tapped lands) and isn't always guaranteed. I feel like Damnation has a larger threat range. No worry about the cost changing, and you hit artifacts and other Eldrazi. I'm looking at you mirror match.
If you're only running blue for Eldrazi Skyspawner there is no way you're playing a better deck than just mono black. Your mana is MUCH MUCH worse for a 2/1 flier that comes with a scion, that's incredibly low upside. If you're going in on blue you should at *least* be looking at Nullfier, Delay, Ashiok, etc.
All is Dust and Languish are both significantly better than damnation in this deck. We do not care about large creatures. We don't. X/5s do not matter to us like they do to other decks. Sweepers should be focused on getting rid of small things while spot removal, discard, and our own giant creatures can focus on big things. Killing your opponents Siege Rhino isn't great if you have to also kill your own Oblivion Sower.
I don't think All is Dust is necessarily the "better card" currently I run a split 1 All is Dust MB and 1 Damnation SB. It has worked very well for me. The key fact is that my average Dust is a 5 CMC Garruk's Wake that also kills all other non-land permanents they own (including things like Keranos). That affect is just 1 sided, dumb and just another way to either bring the game back to parity or seal it out if you were at parity or are ahead.
The trouble is that we got a huge repertoire of new cards and decks bending over backwards trying to fit them in at the moment and test. Right now the most important thing to remember is what kind of foundation you originally built the deck on and tweak it with the new cards, rather than trying to build around these new cards. All of them are powerful, but they are options swimming in a sea of modern playable cards that have been battle tested and proven. Out of all the new cards the one that really seems to stand out is probably Thought-Knot Seer for us. Reality Smasher will probably see play in other types of decks and possibly could see legacy play, so it's a good pick up monetary wise, but probably not a must include except as a possible sideboard against a removal happy player.
For the Bx deck, we got Endless one, blight herder, oblivion sower, Wasteland Strangler, and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as core creatures. From there, we can do the tweaking game however we want as far as what we want to play.
By the way... why no Titan's Presence? I'd think this would be the ONE deck that could actually get value off that spell.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
These, and I'd imagine that some of the problems are improved by OGW as well like the new removal spells, the new exile sweeper, etc. It's really not that bad of a matchup if you're prepared for it. If you're one of the durdley super ramp mono black decks then it's bad, but none of these decks look the same.
I myself like 4xDragon's Claw in my list. I said it was very, very close...not exactly what I will build.
I think what everyone has been trying to do with the red splash is leverage Lightning Bolt to play a more aggressive game. Before, this was a tough thing to do because (1) you had nothing at the 4-drop, and (2) Oblivion Sower and Ulamog were the best finishers you could play, but those don't lend themselves well to shorter games. Both these challenges have answers in OGW: Thought-Knot Seer solves (1) and Reality Smasher solves (2), and they curve into each other perfectly. I think Blight Herder is still good here as a kind of Grave Titan, even if you don't have a ridiculous bomb to ramp into. You can still often turn the Scion tokens into another Seer or Smasher, and having 7 power spread across 4 bodies is just intrinsically good, even if you don't use the Scion tokens for mana. So what you're cutting is the Oblivion Sower and Ulamog. This seems fine for a lower-to-the-ground deck, since those cards were the most awkward if you didn't have enough acceleration. Now we are only playing cards that aren't mediocre if you are forced to cast them on curve.
As I've mentioned before, I want to keep the midrange game plan intact. We are trying to be more aggressive the same way that Jund tries to be more aggressive than the other BGx decks - i.e. just a little more aggressive. So I don't want to shave removal or discard, even with Thought-Knot Seer. Having the turn 1 disruption is just too important, and overloading on discard makes it more likely that Reality Smasher will get there.
With all these colorless cards, Sulfurous Springs then becomes a necessity.
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Graven Cairns
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Blight Herder
4 Reality Smasher
Thanks guys, that's why I ask, very good insight. I think I'm going to follow Exatraz and do a 1:1 split to start. I really like the idea of taking out Keranos and Plainswalkers, not something I really considered.
Edit: I guess 1 also shuts down IoK and Thoughtseize... Man, and Relic. Maybe not the best card for us.
And Relic, Claws, Map, etc.
It's a good card, but probably not right for a processor build of the deck. I could see it fit into a non-processor version of the deck that doesn't rely on most of those.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Primary reason I split is because Dust can cost too much to save you before you get it out. Damnation/languish can be played at pretty much the latest moment you can spare on the worst board states (example you get to untap on T4 against Elves and need to board clear through an Ezuri. I am with folks that Languish is probably more optimal because it allows our things to live, but I already own a Full Art Damnation so I'm gonna use it.
Here is my B<> List I'm working on:
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg Tomb
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Wasetes
7 swamp
4 Relic of Progentius
4 Inqusition
3 Thoughtseize
3 Sergical Extraction
3 Dismember
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Blight Herder
3 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceascless Hunger
Haven't put much of a SB together yet, but I think Something to help with burn 2 Ruin Processor, Tron I should be cool with, Infect can be doable, Goofy is no problem hahaha. I can Extract their Lingering or Seige Rhino if i rip it from their hand Probably a good idea for lili too. Affinity Ratchet bomb...
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
I noticed you aren't running any 1 CMC spells and immediately was going to say you should be running chalice.. and then I saw you were. Chalice on 1 too good.