I'm sort of under the impression that Urborg+Eye giving you basically four mana on turn two is half the reason this deck is good. The other half being that Eye+Temple or Temple+Temple gives you the same.
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*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
The main reason to running Urborg isn't making Eye tap for B, it is for all those fetches u get from Sower tapping for B instead of just being there doing nothing.
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Standard : What is Stand-tart
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
The main reason to running Urborg isn't making Eye tap for B, it is for all those fetches u get from Sower tapping for B instead of just being there doing nothing.
Both modes are pretty important and about equally common, I think.
I don't get this. Could you explain? How does cutting Urborg and going to 4 GQ help cast spells? GQ can tap for colorless either way. But it can't tap black w/o Urborg. Urborg also turns on the stolen enemy fetches that we can't otherwise use. What color variant are you thinking about here? (I wish people would ID their decks, I lose track of who is who.)
It has significantly improved my mana consistency, though it is still not perfect, at 13 B and 10 W instead of 14/12, with only 3 basics. Could cut one more Swamp for +1 Caves of Koilos to go to 13/11 and still have one of each basic. This comes at at the cost of weakening the game against Inkmoth/Tron by cutting GQ. My low basic count also feels pretty marginal in a meta full of Path, Blood Moon, and GQ.
BW is already pretty good against Inkmoth but Tron is everywhere and is so hard to beat without a good dose of luck. 2 more GQ and 2 Crucible of Worlds in the board would help a lot.
How is Mono-B vs. Tron? Vs. Affinity and Infect? Anyone want to post reports on these match ups from either or both perspectives?
The key is in the details
"Ok I'm thinking out of the box here. What if... we dont play Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth but instead put in duallands or utility cards in that spot? then we could play 4 of Ghost Quarter no problem, we would be able to play our spells on time consistently. "
Eldrazi Temple 4
Ghost Quarter 3
Marsh Flats 4
Eye of Ugin 3
Godless Shrine 4
Swamp 1
Plains 1
Caves of Koilos 4
= 24 lands
Gives you 13 of either black or white source (one to many white, one too few black). Or if you prefer 2 eye of ugin - then you could play 4 Ghost quarters.
Ah enemy fetches, yes there is a reason to run Urborg. That might also be a reason why you should run Expedition maps.
What? You're cutting Urborg to add more Godless shrines? What? Dude, what?
Ok, so i guess it should be clear that cutting urborg is just a bad idea. Eye and opponents fetches are more than enough reasons to play it. Also you might want to have more than one black source (e.g. if you play Dismember or if you want to play Strangler+Discard).
Is this really to be discussed Oo ?
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The great Eldrazi Overlords will return to the Modern World.
Challenging the norm and taking out a key card in the engine of the deck are two completely things. "Hey guys, what if we don't play exarch in twin?" "Hey guys, does Tron really need Ancient Stirrings?" "You know what we should take out of burn, Lightning Bolt."
We're at the beginning of something Really Excellent here.
So I am thinking of a curve for this deck.
>Eldrazi Temple, pass
>Eye of Ugin, Thought-Knot Seer
> Urborg, Reality Smasher, Inquistion of Kozilek
You pull the 2 best cards out of their hand and stick a 5/5 with Trample and Haste that's going to further shrink their hand size to remove. Combine with Lilliana of the Veil and Sea Gate Wreckage and grind them out. Is the processor/Progenitus angle even required anymore?
I fully agree that this is first and foremost a TEMPO DECK. This deck does not excel at control-- the mana base is at odds with removal (An abundance of excellent colourless creatures, a lack of quality colorless removal ((Yes, Spatial Contortion, yes, Warping Wail, but really nothing that compares to the efficiency of Path, Bolt, Dismember)) as are the creatures themselves. What is a turn 3 Blight Herder, Oblivion Sower, et al. doing that any other curve topper can't? A trigger that can't be countered? True, but is sticking 3 1/1s or gaining 1 to 2 lands really what the control deck wants to be doing with it's "win con"? Even if you wanted to stick with the Processors, Wasteland Strangler is the definition of tempo- deconstructs your opponent's board while building your own. It's not efficient at either thing separately (3 mana for -3/-3 or 3 mana for a 3/2) but combined it's a powerful motion. Backed by cheap removal it plays much more like Delver, a tempo deck.
That said, I am getting the impression that the processing angle is not really valuable. Relic of Progenitus isn't a fantastic card in most matchups so you are running suboptimal cards to enable a so-so pay-off. Against Bloom for example, you're running nearly 8 dead cards and this is true for basically any combo match-up that doesn't use the graveyard (So Tron as well)
I like the direction of a <>B deck here and capitalizing on the turn-2 4 mana Eldrazi (That protect themselves/don't die to removal) to overtake the game before it begins.
Ok, so i guess it should be clear that cutting urborg is just a bad idea. Eye and opponents fetches are more than enough reasons to play it. Also you might want to have more than one black source (e.g. if you play Dismember or if you want to play Strangler+Discard).
Is this really to be discussed Oo ?
Yes, always open for discussion. Unless you just want to netdeck and say "but someone else play them". However, i doubt either you or I will come up with more pros (early game colour fixing, utility lands) and cons (slower ramp, less late game value from sower) than those already stated. And we will only be convinced if we see some real results from a professional tournament (or many) of the different builds.
I presented the idea for readers to playtest, use it if you want. Similar as to how some people argue that we should cut maps and play removals or discards instead.
Oh my god, you can't keep using the "real results" argument when there ARE real results. Honestly, what it seems like is you haven't played the deck at all. If you can even consider cutting Urborg, you just generally have a lack of understanding of what is going on. Urborg IS fixing. It turns colorless into colorless + Black. Every land is now a dual land. Sweet. Its also fixing early game when you're looking to cast a strangler or a discard spell. So your "pro" of cutting it is ridiculous. Your cons, are just overwhelming, too. You can't just make a list and say "There is a penny in that fire, Pro: I could have a penny. Con: I could die. Well, looks like we are all tied up, boys." It doesn't work that way. This deck would not be a deck without Urborg. It wouldn't function. Urborg lets you ramp with eye without giving up the ability to still play spells. Again, Ill reiterate, it honestly feels like you haven't played the deck. Don't be dense. A lot of us have, and we are telling you it just is a really bad idea. Not all ideas are worth testing. Sorry.
Black IS an off color in this deck. Its also the most IMPORTANT off color in the deck. And holy *****, you're just throwing out "hypergeometric distribution" in a place it doesn't belong. I don't think you get it. If you play Eye without Urborg in play, that is 1 less spell you can play. Be it a relic. A map. An IoK. A removal spell. It doesn't tap for mana. It can't cast anything. Urborg, you see, adds swamp to every land. So now Eye can cast and pay for generic at the VERY least on every spell in the deck. "How often do you draw it?" Is not a reason to not play it. Thats completely absurd. And people actually DO run 4 and have been successful with it. The reason you don't is legendary, but again, I get the impression you haven't played the deck enough to understand that. I mean, seriously, man. Play the deck and come back and tell me Urborg isnt more powerful than your third or fourth godless shrine. Like, damn. Play the deck, dude. You're literally just trolling at this point.
I mean the ineraction with exiled Oblivion Sowers lands is reason enough. Without Urborg you're likely sitting there with 4 useless fetchlands instead of ramp for other things. I might buy your argument if there was if the alternative is just THAT much better. But a few more shocklands isn't it.
We're at the beginning of something Really Excellent here.
So I am thinking of a curve for this deck.
>Eldrazi Temple, pass
>Eye of Ugin, Thought-Knot Seer
> Urborg, Reality Smasher, Inquistion of Kozilek
You pull the 2 best cards out of their hand and stick a 5/5 with Trample and Haste that's going to further shrink their hand size to remove. Combine with Lilliana of the Veil and Sea Gate Wreckage and grind them out. Is the processor/Progenitus angle even required anymore?
I fully agree that this is first and foremost a TEMPO DECK. This deck does not excel at control-- the mana base is at odds with removal (An abundance of excellent colourless creatures, a lack of quality colorless removal ((Yes, Spatial Contortion, yes, Warping Wail, but really nothing that compares to the efficiency of Path, Bolt, Dismember)) as are the creatures themselves. What is a turn 3 Blight Herder, Oblivion Sower, et al. doing that any other curve topper can't? A trigger that can't be countered? True, but is sticking 3 1/1s or gaining 1 to 2 lands really what the control deck wants to be doing with it's "win con"? Even if you wanted to stick with the Processors, Wasteland Strangler is the definition of tempo- deconstructs your opponent's board while building your own. It's not efficient at either thing separately (3 mana for -3/-3 or 3 mana for a 3/2) but combined it's a powerful motion. Backed by cheap removal it plays much more like Delver, a tempo deck.
That said, I am getting the impression that the processing angle is not really valuable. Relic of Progenitus isn't a fantastic card in most matchups so you are running suboptimal cards to enable a so-so pay-off. Against Bloom for example, you're running nearly 8 dead cards and this is true for basically any combo match-up that doesn't use the graveyard (So Tron as well)
I like the direction of a <>B deck here and capitalizing on the turn-2 4 mana Eldrazi (That protect themselves/don't die to removal) to overtake the game before it begins.
Thank you for a post actually worth reading here!
What is the other 4-mana Eldrazi that's powerful? I haven't found one that isn't mediocre. Only Thought-Knot Seer makes the cut. Maybe you mean Endless One?
So you're advocating on Lili replacing the graveyard hate we currently play? Lili and what else? More removal? It's an interesting idea at least. I'm just worried that Reality Smasher and Seer aren't enough to really win the game — they're still vulnerable and don't possess the inevitability of things like Oblivion Sower and Blight Herder, which enable you to ramp into Ulamog.
A radically different vision of the deck, I think, and one that has its appeal. But I think we're not quite there yet in terms of creatures.
Man, Im so done with this absurd conversation. Please, go test it. Good luck.
Can't havnt recieved my cards yet Have been following the deck since 20 dec and ordered the cards right after xmas, but due to new year both the bank and the postal services have been on holiday so havnt been able to get my cards yet.
So all I can do is reading these forums, watching all videos of this deck (and its variants) on youtube, stuying decklists from tournaments and watching streamers do their thing.
Oh and I don't think your comment added much to the discussion except for flaming, but ill leave you to it.
You've literally never played the deck and you're suggesting to take out one of the cornerstone lands. Come on, man. Jesus.
You seem to fail to understand my reasoning, i refer you back to my post again. urborg does not, i repeat, does not help you with your offcolour fixing. Which if you have followed this thread seem to be a problem. Your statement that "Urborg lets you ramp with eye without giving up the ability to still play spells." is false based on those players empirical playtesting and the statistical results (hypergeometric distribution) based on their manabase.
In addition, How often do you play Ulamog the turn after you sower? How many turns does it take to draw into an Urborg (or to find a map to crack and fetch one after you have played a sower)? All of this matter when determining how many urborgs you should play. Based on your line of reasoning, we should play 4 of Urborgs. Which most list doesnt do. Why is that?
How often do we really crack a map to find a Urborg instead of an temple or an eye? The only eldrazi that benefit from urbogs is Wasteland strangler while all other dont care. Urborg also help you play double black the turn it enters the battlefield, which could allow 2 discard spells the same turn.
How often do you play Oblivion Sower on say, turn 3 with temple, eye and Urborg. (2 temples and an Eye does the same) Say you have an Temple and an Eye out (and some other land) - do you ever crack map for an Urborg or do you go for another Temple? (if you get temple it gives you 4 colourless eldrazi mana that turn with the possibility to play the new waste-mana type, if you find urborg you also get 4 eldrazi mana, but with two sources of black).
With urborg you would have 7 mana to play eldrazi next turn, or 4 mana for regular spells (at least 2 of them black coloured, 3 if the "other land" could provide).
With temple you would also have 7 mana to play eldrazi, but only 3 play regular spells (with maximum 1 coloured mana if "other land" could provide).
Urborg doesnt help us ramp into eldrazi, but does help us play other spells with its black mana it gives Eye.
With the new set, double black could be relevant for that black sweeper.
0. How often do you play Oblivion Sower on say, turn 3 with temple, eye and Urborg. (2 temples and an Eye does the same)
Assuming 4 Temple, 2 Eye
Without Urborg, You can have 3 Temples (4 combos) or 2 Temples + Eye (12 combos). Total 16 combos.
With 2x Urborg, You can have 3 Temples (4 combos), 2 Temples + Eye (12 combos), or Temple+Eye+Urborg (16 combos). Total 32 combos.
So the answer is 100% more often.
Context: Below I'm ignoring OGW in the time being as there is still one big tournament (SCG Charlotte) coming this weekend. So I am indifferent between colorless and black mana. I believe post-OGW the monoblack version would be better as we will have more colorless requirement.
1. Urborg fixes black, which is more important than white (or whatever off color it is).
2. In fact, if you already have Eye in play, you should always Map for Urborg instead of Temple. (And if you already have Urborg you should always Map for Eye instead of Temple.)
3. Urborg does help us ramp into Ulamog. Oblivion Sower into Ulamog.
4. Legendary is the reason why we're not playing 4. It is extensively discussed, tested, and most of us agreed that 2/3 Eye+2 Urborg is optimal for splash color builds.
Now this:
5. Mana is hard, that I agree. But Urborg does not seem like the cut here. Have you ever thought of cutting other cards instead?
Can you play more lands or more Maps? I was missing white sources when I played 24 lands+2 Maps so I went up to 25. I feel comfortable there.
Can you cut some 'off-color' spells? http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11230&d=263776&f=MO This one only plays 3 Lingering Souls for example.
Can you cut some colorless lands? I only play 2 Ghost Quarters, but extra land hate in the SB.
We're at the beginning of something Really Excellent here.
So I am thinking of a curve for this deck.
>Eldrazi Temple, pass
>Eye of Ugin, Thought-Knot Seer
> Urborg, Reality Smasher, Inquistion of Kozilek
You pull the 2 best cards out of their hand and stick a 5/5 with Trample and Haste that's going to further shrink their hand size to remove. Combine with Lilliana of the Veil and Sea Gate Wreckage and grind them out. Is the processor/Progenitus angle even required anymore?
I fully agree that this is first and foremost a TEMPO DECK. This deck does not excel at control-- the mana base is at odds with removal (An abundance of excellent colourless creatures, a lack of quality colorless removal ((Yes, Spatial Contortion, yes, Warping Wail, but really nothing that compares to the efficiency of Path, Bolt, Dismember)) as are the creatures themselves. What is a turn 3 Blight Herder, Oblivion Sower, et al. doing that any other curve topper can't? A trigger that can't be countered? True, but is sticking 3 1/1s or gaining 1 to 2 lands really what the control deck wants to be doing with it's "win con"? Even if you wanted to stick with the Processors, Wasteland Strangler is the definition of tempo- deconstructs your opponent's board while building your own. It's not efficient at either thing separately (3 mana for -3/-3 or 3 mana for a 3/2) but combined it's a powerful motion. Backed by cheap removal it plays much more like Delver, a tempo deck.
That said, I am getting the impression that the processing angle is not really valuable. Relic of Progenitus isn't a fantastic card in most matchups so you are running suboptimal cards to enable a so-so pay-off. Against Bloom for example, you're running nearly 8 dead cards and this is true for basically any combo match-up that doesn't use the graveyard (So Tron as well)
I like the direction of a <>B deck here and capitalizing on the turn-2 4 mana Eldrazi (That protect themselves/don't die to removal) to overtake the game before it begins.
I keep seeing Eldrazi Mimic be undervalued and this example perfectly illustrates why it shouldn't be. You're talking about this as a tempo deck with no T1 first of all, so I'm going to add Mimic into this curve.
T1, Temple, Mimic
T2, Eye, Thought-Knot Seer, (Attack with Mimic for 4)
T3 Urborg, Reality Smasher, Inquisition (Attack with Smasher, Seer and Mimic for 14)
Thats attacking for a potential 18 damage on a not particularly unreasonable hand in monoBC, make Eye a T1 play to play as many Mimics and Endless Ones as your hand allows and then you're really cooking.
I think we will see 3 different versions of this deck in the future:
- mono b, more a ramp deck
- b/w midrange
- b/r aggro
Eldrazi mimic is undervalued, you can cast it turn one and attack for 4 next turn, as you said
Interesting stuff. So a more aggro list might look like:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
2 Bearer of Silence
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
1 Expedition Map
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
The mana is still a bit funky because I'm not sure exactly how the BR base should be built: obviously we want some number of Sulfurous Springs, but then what's the proper Fetch/Dual/Basic ratio after that? Not sure.
For creatures, I like the idea of early Endless Ones and Eldrazi Mimics curving into Seers and Smashers. Seems strong.
And I like cutting exile-reliance from the deck. Makes it less explosive but more consistent. Lili + Sea Gate Wreckage seems like a solid way to grind. Maybe we should find room for more Sea Gate or more Expedition Maps.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Both modes are pretty important and about equally common, I think.
What? You're cutting Urborg to add more Godless shrines? What? Dude, what?
You can play 25 lands or some Expedition Maps if you want more white.
Is this really to be discussed Oo ?
So I am thinking of a curve for this deck.
>Eldrazi Temple, pass
>Eye of Ugin, Thought-Knot Seer
> Urborg, Reality Smasher, Inquistion of Kozilek
You pull the 2 best cards out of their hand and stick a 5/5 with Trample and Haste that's going to further shrink their hand size to remove. Combine with Lilliana of the Veil and Sea Gate Wreckage and grind them out. Is the processor/Progenitus angle even required anymore?
I fully agree that this is first and foremost a TEMPO DECK. This deck does not excel at control-- the mana base is at odds with removal (An abundance of excellent colourless creatures, a lack of quality colorless removal ((Yes, Spatial Contortion, yes, Warping Wail, but really nothing that compares to the efficiency of Path, Bolt, Dismember)) as are the creatures themselves. What is a turn 3 Blight Herder, Oblivion Sower, et al. doing that any other curve topper can't? A trigger that can't be countered? True, but is sticking 3 1/1s or gaining 1 to 2 lands really what the control deck wants to be doing with it's "win con"? Even if you wanted to stick with the Processors, Wasteland Strangler is the definition of tempo- deconstructs your opponent's board while building your own. It's not efficient at either thing separately (3 mana for -3/-3 or 3 mana for a 3/2) but combined it's a powerful motion. Backed by cheap removal it plays much more like Delver, a tempo deck.
That said, I am getting the impression that the processing angle is not really valuable. Relic of Progenitus isn't a fantastic card in most matchups so you are running suboptimal cards to enable a so-so pay-off. Against Bloom for example, you're running nearly 8 dead cards and this is true for basically any combo match-up that doesn't use the graveyard (So Tron as well)
I like the direction of a <>B deck here and capitalizing on the turn-2 4 mana Eldrazi (That protect themselves/don't die to removal) to overtake the game before it begins.
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
Oh my god, you can't keep using the "real results" argument when there ARE real results. Honestly, what it seems like is you haven't played the deck at all. If you can even consider cutting Urborg, you just generally have a lack of understanding of what is going on. Urborg IS fixing. It turns colorless into colorless + Black. Every land is now a dual land. Sweet. Its also fixing early game when you're looking to cast a strangler or a discard spell. So your "pro" of cutting it is ridiculous. Your cons, are just overwhelming, too. You can't just make a list and say "There is a penny in that fire, Pro: I could have a penny. Con: I could die. Well, looks like we are all tied up, boys." It doesn't work that way. This deck would not be a deck without Urborg. It wouldn't function. Urborg lets you ramp with eye without giving up the ability to still play spells. Again, Ill reiterate, it honestly feels like you haven't played the deck. Don't be dense. A lot of us have, and we are telling you it just is a really bad idea. Not all ideas are worth testing. Sorry.
LOL, naw dawg, Urborg means we can't cast spells. Apparently? /s
Turn 2 Eye, Thought-knot seer, fking how good is Urborg!!!!
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
Thank you for a post actually worth reading here!
What is the other 4-mana Eldrazi that's powerful? I haven't found one that isn't mediocre. Only Thought-Knot Seer makes the cut. Maybe you mean Endless One?
So you're advocating on Lili replacing the graveyard hate we currently play? Lili and what else? More removal? It's an interesting idea at least. I'm just worried that Reality Smasher and Seer aren't enough to really win the game — they're still vulnerable and don't possess the inevitability of things like Oblivion Sower and Blight Herder, which enable you to ramp into Ulamog.
A radically different vision of the deck, I think, and one that has its appeal. But I think we're not quite there yet in terms of creatures.
You've literally never played the deck and you're suggesting to take out one of the cornerstone lands. Come on, man. Jesus.
0. How often do you play Oblivion Sower on say, turn 3 with temple, eye and Urborg. (2 temples and an Eye does the same)
Assuming 4 Temple, 2 Eye
Without Urborg, You can have 3 Temples (4 combos) or 2 Temples + Eye (12 combos). Total 16 combos.
With 2x Urborg, You can have 3 Temples (4 combos), 2 Temples + Eye (12 combos), or Temple+Eye+Urborg (16 combos). Total 32 combos.
So the answer is 100% more often.
Context: Below I'm ignoring OGW in the time being as there is still one big tournament (SCG Charlotte) coming this weekend. So I am indifferent between colorless and black mana. I believe post-OGW the monoblack version would be better as we will have more colorless requirement.
1. Urborg fixes black, which is more important than white (or whatever off color it is).
2. In fact, if you already have Eye in play, you should always Map for Urborg instead of Temple. (And if you already have Urborg you should always Map for Eye instead of Temple.)
3. Urborg does help us ramp into Ulamog. Oblivion Sower into Ulamog.
4. Legendary is the reason why we're not playing 4. It is extensively discussed, tested, and most of us agreed that 2/3 Eye+2 Urborg is optimal for splash color builds.
Now this:
5. Mana is hard, that I agree. But Urborg does not seem like the cut here. Have you ever thought of cutting other cards instead?
Can you play more lands or more Maps? I was missing white sources when I played 24 lands+2 Maps so I went up to 25. I feel comfortable there.
Can you cut some 'off-color' spells? http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11230&d=263776&f=MO This one only plays 3 Lingering Souls for example.
Can you cut some colorless lands? I only play 2 Ghost Quarters, but extra land hate in the SB.
Doesn't work. You need colorless mana. (You only have 2 black)
Legacy: Dark Depths, Pox, Eldrazi Agro
Vintage: Dark Depths, Grey Orge
Pauper: Faerie Ninja
7pt Highlander: BW Combo
EDH: Horobi, (t)Toshiro, (t)Isamaru
I don't think so.
Check out the Expedition for confirmation.
Interesting stuff. So a more aggro list might look like:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
2 Bearer of Silence
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
1 Expedition Map
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
The mana is still a bit funky because I'm not sure exactly how the BR base should be built: obviously we want some number of Sulfurous Springs, but then what's the proper Fetch/Dual/Basic ratio after that? Not sure.
For creatures, I like the idea of early Endless Ones and Eldrazi Mimics curving into Seers and Smashers. Seems strong.
And I like cutting exile-reliance from the deck. Makes it less explosive but more consistent. Lili + Sea Gate Wreckage seems like a solid way to grind. Maybe we should find room for more Sea Gate or more Expedition Maps.
Vile Aggregate just seems bad. A 1/5 for 3? I'll pass.
Eldrazi Obligator should probably make the cut, yeah.
Dust Stalker's drawback also seems fairly hefty.
Flayer Drone also seems fairly underpowered.
I don't love Terminate because I don't want to be wed to having BR on turn 2.
So yes, I'd like to make room for some number of Obligator's. I'll think about how.
Lili + Sea Gate seems so good. But maybe going down to 1-2 Lilis is OK.