Wonder if people will eventually grow tired of having wizards ban every single viable deck there is in the format because since there are so many bans, there will never be more than one good deck in the format at the same time.
It's so ridiculous they quote competitive diversity as a reason to actually remove diversity from the format. Banning will never help, what we need is unbannings and cards that have similar power levels on all colors, having one good color/deck each year so it can be banned the next one will never promote diversity. It just promotes a get the good deck after the ban, then sell it before the next one so you don't lose the money for no reason.
Kiki is bad. The cards price is gonna go up but the deck wont be good. Blue is in a awful spot now. Merfolk or delver is pretty much it.. and merfolk isnt really a blue deck but a tribal deck
Hopefully these bans mean more people shifting into Legacy
If the base to build ANY legacy deck was not 90% plus composed of cards in the restricted list that each go for over $100 modern would not be a format, its boring and super constricted, while legacy has infinite diversity and its incredibly fun to play.
However not everyone has $3-4k to dump into a legacy deck just because. As long as the restricted list exist, Legacy will be a format for rich people, which sucks because its the best format of magic, modern keeps getting more and more watered down with each year because they keep banning cards for no good reason other than to make the format slower and dumber.
Meh not really. They unbanned nothing because they were being conservative. If anything, I'd expect to see another crazy shakeup for the next protour.
Really? You really think that shake-up will be an unban of a powerful, straight-to-tier-1 card?
If anything, I think now we can start talking about a Preordain unban in the relative future.
Stoneforge shakes up the format while preordain just slots into blue based decks. Wizards likes shaking up the format for their protours.
I know Valakut, Nacatl, and BB were all powerful cards and were unbanned before PTs, but other than those cards which presented low to no impact, all the "shake-ups" have been bans, not unbans. And none of those cards come anywhere close to SFM's potential.
And you just made my point for me. Nacatl, Valakut and BB are underpowered in this format hence why they DIDN'T make an impact on the game. Stoneforge is strong enough to make a difference.
No way man. They've just proven they're headed in the complete opposite direction. If you can't see that then I'm sorry. But either we were WAY off on their definition of consistency or Twin's ban is WOTC actively powering down the format or both. Either way a super powerful card that will slot into Tier 1 decks and create more Tier 1 decks is categorically opposed to what WOTC just did.
I'm blown away by this ban. No shock I play twin, have for...a long time now, but wow. All this really says is 'if your deck is good, you may eat a ban.'
Someone months ago was posting how the ban is not to balance the format, not to manage it, but to just shake things up for the Pro Tour. I give that person a lot more weight now, because there's simply no way Twin deserved a ban, and something from Affinity (Plating?) and Jund (lily???) dont.
I don't think the Twin ban is the end of the world for blue decks. Now you can safely unban AV and Preordain. Maybe even JTMS. You can also print Counterspell, reprint Force of Will, etc. Blue can now be pushed strongly towards control with no fear of making Twin the dominant deck. So from that long-term perspective, there is a silver lining to the ban.
But the real disaster is in the messaging. This shows that Wizards will ban ANY Tier 1 deck just to shake things up for a Pro Tour, whether or not the deck is actually causing metagame issues throughout the year. This will act as a strong caution to players who want to invest in Modern. BGx Midrange, Affinity, Tron, Eldrazi, Burn, etc. are all just one good year away from a ban, and that's the kind of format-wide uncertainty which is terrible for a supposedly nonrotating format. Indeed, Modern can no longer be called "nonrotating". It's really a rotating format now where rotations are rammed through by a hamfisted Wizards.
Hopefully these bans mean more people shifting into Legacy
If the base to build ANY legacy deck was not 90% plus composed of cards in the restricted list that each go for over $100 modern would not be a format, its boring and super constricted, while legacy has infinite diversity and its incredibly fun to play.
However not everyone has $3-4k to dump into a legacy deck just because. As long as the restricted list exist, Legacy will be a format for rich people, which sucks because its the best format of magic, modern keeps getting more and more watered down with each year because they keep banning cards for no good reason other than to make the format slower and dumber.
I'll just mention that modern has reached very close to this point. I'm $600+ off from playing most modern decks, despite having more than half the cards of most of them.
Love the bans, looks like wizards are finally getting it together over there
Disagree. This sends a very offputting message to players that their Tier 1 investment can be banned for just being a good deck. Affinity, Tron, Burn, Eldrazi, BGx Midrange, etc. could all be next just for having good years and being strong strategies. This makes Modern a very scary format to invest in.
Twin being banned opes up the format some. AF said they will be looking at AV with the twinless meta.
I for one am very happy Wotc is treating Modern different then other older formats. But I dont like Legacy (or Vintage) so I dont want a format treated like Legacy. When the news came out last night at the midnight prerelease, there were just as many happy Modern players as upset. It will be interesting to see what attendance looks like in the coming weeks locally and on the big stage.
At least Wotc has been consistent in its reasoning of bans since the inception of the format.
'Best' in the format means large meta share, not always the 'best' deck. Which makes sense with Wotc pushing diversity from the get go.
I don't think the Twin ban is the end of the world for blue decks. Now you can safely unban AV and Preordain. Maybe even JTMS. You can also print Counterspell, reprint Force of Will, etc. Blue can now be pushed strongly towards control with no fear of making Twin the dominant deck. So from that long-term perspective, there is a silver lining to the ban.
This is not true and was never stated by anyone in Wizards. Visions was said maybe but the others are completely no. Maro has even recently doubled down on the "no strong counters because market research shows people don't like it."
You are playing into Wizards holding a carrot in front of you. Hoping they can now print more powerful cards. Theyre in a period of game slowdown. If we do see these powerful cards it wont be for almost a year, and by then who knows how the format shapes out. It could easily have another semi decent blue deck that keeps us from having this.
Im salty about the ban as a non twi
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Love the bans, looks like wizards are finally getting it together over there
Disagree. This sends a very offputting message to players that their Tier 1 investment can be banned for just being a good deck. Affinity, Tron, Burn, Eldrazi, BGx Midrange, etc. could all be next just for having good years and being strong strategies. This makes Modern a very scary format to invest in.
I am pretty bummed. Yes I play twin, but the UR shell can shift to Delver or something *****ty. The reason I am bummed is because now I have no idea what deck is safe. Tron is doomed. Quote me on this. Tron will become the best deck by a mile and will be gone by this time next year.
Banning Twin feels like an enormous mistake, mostly because I'm not sure what can keep Affinity in check. Bloom and Twin were Affinity's two truly "bad" Tier 1 matchups, meaning that Affinity is now 50/50+ vs. a huge percentage of the field. Bloom I can deal with, but Modern falls apart without Twin.
It's so ridiculous they quote competitive diversity as a reason to actually remove diversity from the format. Banning will never help, what we need is unbannings and cards that have similar power levels on all colors, having one good color/deck each year so it can be banned the next one will never promote diversity. It just promotes a get the good deck after the ban, then sell it before the next one so you don't lose the money for no reason.
If the base to build ANY legacy deck was not 90% plus composed of cards in the restricted list that each go for over $100 modern would not be a format, its boring and super constricted, while legacy has infinite diversity and its incredibly fun to play.
However not everyone has $3-4k to dump into a legacy deck just because. As long as the restricted list exist, Legacy will be a format for rich people, which sucks because its the best format of magic, modern keeps getting more and more watered down with each year because they keep banning cards for no good reason other than to make the format slower and dumber.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Someone months ago was posting how the ban is not to balance the format, not to manage it, but to just shake things up for the Pro Tour. I give that person a lot more weight now, because there's simply no way Twin deserved a ban, and something from Affinity (Plating?) and Jund (lily???) dont.
Spirits
That was... unexpected.
Not quitting yet and have a lot of forum stuff to do in light of this, but I will post my kneejerk thoughts that I just published to the Nexus:
http://modernnexus.com/saturday-brief-summer-bloom-splinter-twin-banned/
I don't think the Twin ban is the end of the world for blue decks. Now you can safely unban AV and Preordain. Maybe even JTMS. You can also print Counterspell, reprint Force of Will, etc. Blue can now be pushed strongly towards control with no fear of making Twin the dominant deck. So from that long-term perspective, there is a silver lining to the ban.
But the real disaster is in the messaging. This shows that Wizards will ban ANY Tier 1 deck just to shake things up for a Pro Tour, whether or not the deck is actually causing metagame issues throughout the year. This will act as a strong caution to players who want to invest in Modern. BGx Midrange, Affinity, Tron, Eldrazi, Burn, etc. are all just one good year away from a ban, and that's the kind of format-wide uncertainty which is terrible for a supposedly nonrotating format. Indeed, Modern can no longer be called "nonrotating". It's really a rotating format now where rotations are rammed through by a hamfisted Wizards.
I'll just mention that modern has reached very close to this point. I'm $600+ off from playing most modern decks, despite having more than half the cards of most of them.
Nothing that was not playable before already, it just pushes the rest of the decks up in the tier.
Sort of. We hit it out of the park on the Bloom ban. Twin? Not so much.
Disagree. This sends a very offputting message to players that their Tier 1 investment can be banned for just being a good deck. Affinity, Tron, Burn, Eldrazi, BGx Midrange, etc. could all be next just for having good years and being strong strategies. This makes Modern a very scary format to invest in.
I for one am very happy Wotc is treating Modern different then other older formats. But I dont like Legacy (or Vintage) so I dont want a format treated like Legacy. When the news came out last night at the midnight prerelease, there were just as many happy Modern players as upset. It will be interesting to see what attendance looks like in the coming weeks locally and on the big stage.
At least Wotc has been consistent in its reasoning of bans since the inception of the format.
'Best' in the format means large meta share, not always the 'best' deck. Which makes sense with Wotc pushing diversity from the get go.
Like ktkenshinx says 'This makes Modern a very scary format to invest in.'
I was JUST going to start putting together a new deck too. Forget that.
Spirits
This is not true and was never stated by anyone in Wizards. Visions was said maybe but the others are completely no. Maro has even recently doubled down on the "no strong counters because market research shows people don't like it."
You are playing into Wizards holding a carrot in front of you. Hoping they can now print more powerful cards. Theyre in a period of game slowdown. If we do see these powerful cards it wont be for almost a year, and by then who knows how the format shapes out. It could easily have another semi decent blue deck that keeps us from having this.
Im salty about the ban as a non twi
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I am pretty bummed. Yes I play twin, but the UR shell can shift to Delver or something *****ty. The reason I am bummed is because now I have no idea what deck is safe. Tron is doomed. Quote me on this. Tron will become the best deck by a mile and will be gone by this time next year.
Unless the decks that rush in to fill Twin's void can beat the same decks that Twin beat, naturally, the decks that used to lose to Twin would rise.
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Big Johnny.
The new banlist thread is up. As is our tradition, we open the new thread right after the announcement goes up so all discussion can take place in that new context. Please take all conversation there.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/662745-current-modern-banlist-discussion-1-18-2016-update