Can we please stop arguing about what is control and what isn't, admit that control is in a pretty bad place, and then think about what we can do to change that?
This is what it comes down to for me. Why do we need to change it? Why does pure control HAVE to exist? It adds nothing to the format where decks with inevitability and sweepers/counters like Tron and Scapeshift exist. Hell, the whole BGx shell is basically control (a few game ending threats that it protects with removal and discard).
What does a control build look like? Does it have to be mostly creatureless? Does it have to play counters and removal? What about discard? If so, why are these elements required for a control deck?
Here's what it comes down to for me: why do we need more posts about "pure control"? I don't care about pure control. I don't care about your opinion of pure control. I don't care whether or not pure control is ever viable in this format, or even if the very idea is some idealistic fantasy that came to you while stoned. That doesn't concern me. I am worried about the entire control archetype. If you'd actually taken the time to read my post before clicking reply you'd see Scapeshift is one of many control decks I referenced, and its part of an archetype that is suffering in Modern. That is a problem to me, and probably to Wizards as well given the quote that's thrown around here so often about their desire to make several archetypes viable and disappointment that they haven't been able to yet.
Can we please stop arguing about what is control and what isn't, admit that control is in a pretty bad place, and then think about what we can do to change that?
This is what it comes down to for me. Why do we need to change it? Why does pure control HAVE to exist? It adds nothing to the format where decks with inevitability and sweepers/counters like Tron and Scapeshift exist. Hell, the whole BGx shell is basically control (a few game ending threats that it protects with removal and discard).
What does a control build look like? Does it have to be mostly creatureless? Does it have to play counters and removal? What about discard? If so, why are these elements required for a control deck?
Like every other deck archetype, pure control DOES add to the format. Sure, its not for everyone, but so what? Just because you dont like it, it shouldnt be in the format?
Whether people like the "pure, draw-go" control decks, those decks keep other decks in check.
I hate Blood Moon, it serves a purpose; it punishes people that play manabases that are too greedy or people who dont have ways to remove it in their 75. Just like low to the ground, Sligh Red/Burn type decks keep other decks under control. The point of having a variety of "viable" "strong" archetypes is so no one particular archetype becomes too dominant and over-the-top.
Love'em or Hate'em, control decks act as a check and balance on the format. Right now there is no viable control deck and its part of the reason the meta is so heavily warped.
Well I believe control works traditionally as a check against Combo and to a lesser extent midrange/attrition type decks. IMO Combo has always been the bane of Magic's existence. From the very beginning people have been breaking the game with unforeseen card interactions that lead to outlandishly noninteractive decks. From what WotC has been saying over the last several years it almost seems like Combo decks are accidents of deck evolution. Take Amulet for example, Summer Bloom was last printed in like 9th. Amulet was printed in Worldwake, Azusa in CoK, Karoos in Ravnica, and Prime Time in M11/12. 9th was in 2005, Kamigawa was before that, Ravnica later in 2005, M11 was 2010 and as was Worldwake. So it took over 5 years for the pieces to be printed and additional 5 before the deck was able to reach tier 1. There is no way for WotC to regulate this kind of thing preemptively. All they can do is ban cards when they become problematic.
And what was my point...ugh?
Anyway, I think Combo Control is another evolutionary step similar to Tempo and Attrition type decks. People who want pure control likely played it at some point and enjoyed it. Formats and the game as a whole has changed, they need to change with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Well I believe control works traditionally as a check against Combo and to a lesser extent midrange/attrition type decks.
I can agree. However, I am of the opinion that the emergence of tempo combats combo and ramp beats midrange (which, imo, is a more diverse format than having control beat both).
Well I believe control works traditionally as a check against Combo and to a lesser extent midrange/attrition type decks.
I can agree. However, I am of the opinion that the emergence of tempo combats combo and ramp beats midrange (which, imo, is a more diverse format than having control beat both).
It's worth noting that the only viable tempo decks in Modern are also combo decks. Oops?
Well I believe control works traditionally as a check against Combo and to a lesser extent midrange/attrition type decks.
I can agree. However, I am of the opinion that the emergence of tempo combats combo and ramp beats midrange (which, imo, is a more diverse format than having control beat both).
It's worth noting that the only viable tempo decks in Modern are also combo decks. Oops?
It's almost as if whenever combo/tempo decks combat they swap out their combo because it's bad against tempo.
Guyz I think they are unbanning AV this time for sure.
Can't tell if you are trolling or not, but either way I agree with you.
Haven't finished up the Twin testing yet so I'm not sure just how broken this is in our favorite UR combo deck. But I would bet that if the metagame looks like it does now after GP Vancouver, then AV and/or Sword is going to get unbanned. With MM2 coming out in May, Wizards probably wants the format hype to be as high as possible. Banning 2-3 more cards doesn't seem like a great way to do that. Unbanning 1-2 cards and then reprinting a ton of cards, on top of any new goodies in Dragons of Tarkir or Magic Origins that get spoiled, seems like a better business plan. This is on top of the metagame implications that a Sword/AV unban would have. I talked about this both at the end of the TC era and at the beginning of the Podless era; I still believe that the only reason AV didn't get unbanned then and there was because Wizards needed to see what a Podless metagame actually looked like. If the Modern metagame looks like it does now a few weeks before the March 23 announcement, then it is pretty clear that some added juice is needed in this format, particularly the blue variety.
We shouldn't forget that Wizards sees things a bit different too.
They classify hexproof strategies as combo decks for example.
It's certainly a possibility that Wizards is classifying BG/x as de facto control decks too.
I mean on this forum people cannot even agree what decks are what.
We don't know how Wizards is internally treating and classifying decks.
Guyz I think they are unbanning AV this time for sure.
I know this is probably sarcasm, but quite honestly they really should unban that card. As I've stated repeatedly, it had no business being banned in the first place, and in fact I think might have been the most ill-conceived ban they've ever done. Even GGT, at the time of its banning, made some sense, it just became a joke once they banned Dread Return.
I will say that the unban depends on the results of GP Vancouver. If the GP results in any way reflect the PT results, then AV/Sword are my go-to unban cards and I think Wizards will see it that way as well. But if the GP results aren't as bad, or totally new stuff emerges, then I'm not sure what they will do. One thing that the last few months showed us is that Wizards is totally willing to ban cards without giving the metagame much time to adapt; if it looks like it won't adapt, Wizards will err on the side of doubt and ban. Or, hopefully in this case, unban.
You have no idea if Jace would break combo decks. It's all conjecture. What we need is data.
I dont care. AF and Wotc has said we will not have access to it, I dont think about it. Just like the rest of the ban list. What makes you different then me is you dwell on the ban list, I do not.
Quote from rcwraspy »
The format is now Abzan>Splinter Twin>Burn>Abzan. Blech.
Better then Delver/Pod. I would rather have a format with 4 decks (which the current meta has many more then that), then 2 decks as it was prior to the bannings.
That being said, everyones region is slightly different. Where we were having problems firing PPTQs and Modern FNMs in the Delver/Pod time period, We have since limited out 2 PPTQs and FNM has fired every week since the bannings.
Quote from Talon_Blue »
I can think of one possible benefit. Potential extra revenue for Wizards from ads from Youtube vods and Twitch feeds as a result of longer games.
I dont see how Wotc makes money from something free? Color me confused...
Quote from Nyzzeh »
Guyz I think they are unbanning AV this time for sure.
I dont. If Wotc wouldnt/didnt release AV with the TC/DTT banning, I doubt we see AV unless the meta matures quite a bit more then it is now.
In all, we could have a T1 control deck and the masses on here would argue because it was the wrong type of control, using the wrong cards.
Well I believe control works traditionally as a check against Combo and to a lesser extent midrange/attrition type decks.
I can agree. However, I am of the opinion that the emergence of tempo combats combo and ramp beats midrange (which, imo, is a more diverse format than having control beat both).
It's worth noting that the only viable tempo decks in Modern are also combo decks. Oops?
It's almost as if whenever combo/tempo decks combat they swap out their combo because it's bad against tempo.
Whoa.
I must have misheard the sideboarding for the Leon vs. Wiegersma match, or maybe you're just better than them. Speaking in absolutes is rarely a good idea with this game. Also from game one:
Adding his third land, an Island, Wiegersma passed to Del Moral León who just attacked. Sleight of Hand ensured Wiegersma hit his fourth mana, and Bloom Moon joined the fray. At the end of the turn Del Moral León filtered away an unwanted Lightning Bolt. With Wiegersma tapped, Splinter Twin onto Deceiver Exarch ended the game in flash.
AV is near the power level of liliana so no wonder it hasn't been unbanned yet. Until now the format didn't really need it, uwr was a thing, it even won worlds, and unbanning it would probably have made uwr too strong.
Now that junk got a new toy, as well as burn, and infect got melira out of the format, uwr can't compete and scapeshift can't either because it's never been very good against aggro while also having to deal with liliana, because there's no real CA engine.
Twin is resisting even without any new toys, which is somewhat strange, but there has to be some explanation.
AV is near the power level of liliana so no wonder it hasn't been unbanned yet. Until now the format didn't really need it, uwr was a thing, it even won worlds, and unbanning it would probably have made uwr too strong.
Now that junk got a new toy, as well as burn, and infect got melira out of the format, uwr can't compete and scapeshift can't either because it's never been very good against aggro while also having to deal with liliana, because there's no real CA engine.
Twin is resisting even without any new toys, which is somewhat strange, but there has to be some explanation.
You have been playing Modern long enough to know how they correct what you brought up. It wont be with unabnning anything.
Can we please stop arguing about what is control and what isn't, admit that control is in a pretty bad place, and then think about what we can do to change that?
This is what it comes down to for me. Why do we need to change it? Why does pure control HAVE to exist? It adds nothing to the format where decks with inevitability and sweepers/counters like Tron and Scapeshift exist. Hell, the whole BGx shell is basically control (a few game ending threats that it protects with removal and discard).
What does a control build look like? Does it have to be mostly creatureless? Does it have to play counters and removal? What about discard? If so, why are these elements required for a control deck?
Here's what it comes down to for me: why do we need more posts about "pure control"? I don't care about pure control. I don't care about your opinion of pure control. I don't care whether or not pure control is ever viable in this format, or even if the very idea is some idealistic fantasy that came to you while stoned. That doesn't concern me. I am worried about the entire control archetype. If you'd actually taken the time to read my post before clicking reply you'd see Scapeshift is one of many control decks I referenced, and its part of an archetype that is suffering in Modern. That is a problem to me, and probably to Wizards as well given the quote that's thrown around here so often about their desire to make several archetypes viable and disappointment that they haven't been able to yet.
Whoops, I missed this the first time (MTGS y u no tell me people replied), so I'll address it now.
First off: u mad brah
Secondly, you say that you don't care about pure control, yet your requirements for control are strange. You count Scapeshift, which works I suppose, but you don't seem to count any tempo deck (which are essentially control), nor do you seem to count any Tron deck (which tend to be a ramp/control mix) or any of the Rock decks (which share many elements with control).
In what way is control not viable? Scapeshift was a powerful deck and is still completely playable. Tron is still good. Any BGx deck is still extremely good. Twin is fantastic. All share some elements of control and are doing fine in the metagame.
Thus my question, why does pure control have to exist, which is the only thing left. You discount any decks with control elements and leave only Ux decks with lots of counterspells and a bit of removal. That is not the basis for control.
Secondly, why does control have to have a large part of the metagame? The only really big control deck in Legacy is Miracles (and Lands, I suppose). They don't make up a huge part of the Legacy metagame. Why does Modern HAVE to be different?
Edit:
I must have misheard the sideboarding for the Leon vs. Wiegersma match, or maybe you're just better than them. Speaking in absolutes is rarely a good idea with this game. Also:
Bro, have you every heard of something called "generalizing?" Because that's what I was doing. The majority of the time you'll drop your combo or shave it to the bare minimum when you're playing against a tempo deck as Twin. There's too many ways to interact and stop your combo. Sometimes you'll keep one in to have that "oops I win" button in case they try to go for anything.
Also, that was from their game one. If you honestly think that you can sideboard before game 1, you're even worse at this game than I thought you were.
Secondly, you say that you don't care about pure control, yet your requirements for control are strange. You count Scapeshift, which works I suppose, but you don't seem to count any tempo deck (which are essentially control), nor do you seem to count any Tron deck (which tend to be a ramp/control mix) or any of the Rock decks (which share many elements with control).
In what way is control not viable? Scapeshift was a powerful deck and is still completely playable. Tron is still good. Any BGx deck is still extremely good. Twin is fantastic. All share some elements of control and are doing fine in the metagame.
Thus my question, why does pure control have to exist, which is the only thing left. You discount any decks with control elements and leave only Ux decks with lots of counterspells and a bit of removal. That is not the basis for control.
Secondly, why does control have to have a large part of the metagame? The only really big control deck in Legacy is Miracles (and Lands, I suppose). They don't make up a huge part of the Legacy metagame. Why does Modern HAVE to be different?
Edit:
I must have misheard the sideboarding for the Leon vs. Wiegersma match, or maybe you're just better than them. Speaking in absolutes is rarely a good idea with this game. Also:
Bro, have you every heard of something called "generalizing?" Because that's what I was doing. The majority of the time you'll drop your combo or shave it to the bare minimum when you're playing against a tempo deck as Twin. There's too many ways to interact and stop your combo. Sometimes you'll keep one in to have that "oops I win" button in case they try to go for anything.
Also, that was from their game one. If you honestly think that you can sideboard before game 1, you're even worse at this game than I thought you were.
You just categorized Twin, every tempo deck, Tron, and BGx as control. Even putting the control part of that aside, you just put lumped Twin, tempo, Tron, and BGx into one archetype. All of them. In one archetype. I'm just going to assume this is a joke.
Also your reading comprehension is abysmal. I'm not mad, I'm in wonder that you continue to reply to me and continue to betray your own ability to read. It is puzzling to me.
I will say that the unban depends on the results of GP Vancouver. If the GP results in any way reflect the PT results, then AV/Sword are my go-to unban cards and I think Wizards will see it that way as well. But if the GP results aren't as bad, or totally new stuff emerges, then I'm not sure what they will do. One thing that the last few months showed us is that Wizards is totally willing to ban cards without giving the metagame much time to adapt; if it looks like it won't adapt, Wizards will err on the side of doubt and ban. Or, hopefully in this case, unban.
I'm under the impression if things don't look terrible at the GP they're going to let the format sit for a while rather than unban something and risk upsetting it again. If it does look similar to the PT results then I agree, either AV or Sword is going to come off. I hope one or both comes off either way, but in the former situation I'm not getting my hopes up.
You just categorized Twin, every tempo deck, Tron, and BGx as control. Even putting the control part of that aside, you just put lumped Twin, tempo, Tron, and BGx into one archetype. All of them. In one archetype. I'm just going to assume this is a joke.
Nice try bro. I said they had control elements, not that they were all in the control archetype. In fact, I specifically said Tron and Scapeshift were both control hybrids. I suggest taking two doses of reading comprehension and coming back when you're feeling a bit better.
But let's be honest here: it's impossible to determine how control can be aided in Modern if you don't give your standards for control, which are so nebulous and vague that you could discount any deck as being control. Put them down in writing here.
We shouldn't forget that Wizards sees things a bit different too.
They classify hexproof strategies as combo decks for example.
It's certainly a possibility that Wizards is classifying BG/x as de facto control decks too.
I mean on this forum people cannot even agree what decks are what.
We don't know how Wizards is internally treating and classifying decks.
Wizards considers aggro control as a separate archetype from control. BGx obviously is an aggro-control deck because it can also be aggressive.
You just categorized Twin, every tempo deck, Tron, and BGx as control. Even putting the control part of that aside, you just put lumped Twin, tempo, Tron, and BGx into one archetype. All of them. In one archetype. I'm just going to assume this is a joke.
Nice try bro. I said they had control elements, not that they were all in the control archetype. In fact, I specifically said Tron and Scapeshift were both control hybrids. I suggest taking two doses of reading comprehension and coming back when you're feeling a bit better.
But let's be honest here: it's impossible to determine how control can be aided in Modern if you don't give your standards for control, which are so nebulous and vague that you could discount any deck as being control. Put them down in writing here.
The only thing impossible here is trying to argue when you didn't read the posts you're replying to. If you have some point to make then go back, read, and try it again.
Thus my question, why does pure control have to exist, which is the only thing left. You discount any decks with control elements and leave only Ux decks with lots of counterspells and a bit of removal. That is not the basis for control.
Secondly, why does control have to have a large part of the metagame? The only really big control deck in Legacy is Miracles (and Lands, I suppose). They don't make up a huge part of the Legacy metagame. Why does Modern HAVE to be different?
Why does pure control "have" to exist? Why does midrange "have" to exist? Why does tempo "have" to exist? Why does combo "have" to exist? The answer is that they don't. But that doesn't mean it isn't good that they exist. Asking why control has to exist is far less relevant than asking whether or not it would be nice for Modern if it did exist. Because different players have different playstyles, and some players love playing pure control. And it doesn't have to be a huge part of the meta, it would just be nice if it were viable. It would be nice if Modern player Bob could play the archetype he wanted, rather than almost what he wanted to play.
The only thing impossible here is trying to argue when you didn't read the posts you're replying to. If you have some point to make then go back, read, and try it again.
I've read every single one. But I guess if you're too cowardly to actually say what you consider control to be, then I'm going to have to take your name at face value. Arguing with people like you is futile when they dodge every question and refuse to commit.
With a control deck, it will keep combo in check this is what BGx decks can't since proactive answers can only do that much, what we need is more reactive answers that are actually good.
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Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
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Here's what it comes down to for me: why do we need more posts about "pure control"? I don't care about pure control. I don't care about your opinion of pure control. I don't care whether or not pure control is ever viable in this format, or even if the very idea is some idealistic fantasy that came to you while stoned. That doesn't concern me. I am worried about the entire control archetype. If you'd actually taken the time to read my post before clicking reply you'd see Scapeshift is one of many control decks I referenced, and its part of an archetype that is suffering in Modern. That is a problem to me, and probably to Wizards as well given the quote that's thrown around here so often about their desire to make several archetypes viable and disappointment that they haven't been able to yet.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Like every other deck archetype, pure control DOES add to the format. Sure, its not for everyone, but so what? Just because you dont like it, it shouldnt be in the format?
Whether people like the "pure, draw-go" control decks, those decks keep other decks in check.
I hate Blood Moon, it serves a purpose; it punishes people that play manabases that are too greedy or people who dont have ways to remove it in their 75. Just like low to the ground, Sligh Red/Burn type decks keep other decks under control. The point of having a variety of "viable" "strong" archetypes is so no one particular archetype becomes too dominant and over-the-top.
Love'em or Hate'em, control decks act as a check and balance on the format. Right now there is no viable control deck and its part of the reason the meta is so heavily warped.
What does it add that the tempo decks do not?
I'll take "Failed Assumptions" for $500, Alex.
What to they balance/check that isn't already balanced and checked?
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
And what was my point...ugh?
Anyway, I think Combo Control is another evolutionary step similar to Tempo and Attrition type decks. People who want pure control likely played it at some point and enjoyed it. Formats and the game as a whole has changed, they need to change with it.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
I can agree. However, I am of the opinion that the emergence of tempo combats combo and ramp beats midrange (which, imo, is a more diverse format than having control beat both).
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
It's worth noting that the only viable tempo decks in Modern are also combo decks. Oops?
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
It's almost as if whenever combo/tempo decks combat they swap out their combo because it's bad against tempo.
Whoa.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Can't tell if you are trolling or not, but either way I agree with you.
Haven't finished up the Twin testing yet so I'm not sure just how broken this is in our favorite UR combo deck. But I would bet that if the metagame looks like it does now after GP Vancouver, then AV and/or Sword is going to get unbanned. With MM2 coming out in May, Wizards probably wants the format hype to be as high as possible. Banning 2-3 more cards doesn't seem like a great way to do that. Unbanning 1-2 cards and then reprinting a ton of cards, on top of any new goodies in Dragons of Tarkir or Magic Origins that get spoiled, seems like a better business plan. This is on top of the metagame implications that a Sword/AV unban would have. I talked about this both at the end of the TC era and at the beginning of the Podless era; I still believe that the only reason AV didn't get unbanned then and there was because Wizards needed to see what a Podless metagame actually looked like. If the Modern metagame looks like it does now a few weeks before the March 23 announcement, then it is pretty clear that some added juice is needed in this format, particularly the blue variety.
They classify hexproof strategies as combo decks for example.
It's certainly a possibility that Wizards is classifying BG/x as de facto control decks too.
I mean on this forum people cannot even agree what decks are what.
We don't know how Wizards is internally treating and classifying decks.
I dont care. AF and Wotc has said we will not have access to it, I dont think about it. Just like the rest of the ban list. What makes you different then me is you dwell on the ban list, I do not.
Better then Delver/Pod. I would rather have a format with 4 decks (which the current meta has many more then that), then 2 decks as it was prior to the bannings.
That being said, everyones region is slightly different. Where we were having problems firing PPTQs and Modern FNMs in the Delver/Pod time period, We have since limited out 2 PPTQs and FNM has fired every week since the bannings.
I dont see how Wotc makes money from something free? Color me confused...
I dont. If Wotc wouldnt/didnt release AV with the TC/DTT banning, I doubt we see AV unless the meta matures quite a bit more then it is now.
In all, we could have a T1 control deck and the masses on here would argue because it was the wrong type of control, using the wrong cards.
I must have misheard the sideboarding for the Leon vs. Wiegersma match, or maybe you're just better than them. Speaking in absolutes is rarely a good idea with this game. Also from game one:
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Now that junk got a new toy, as well as burn, and infect got melira out of the format, uwr can't compete and scapeshift can't either because it's never been very good against aggro while also having to deal with liliana, because there's no real CA engine.
Twin is resisting even without any new toys, which is somewhat strange, but there has to be some explanation.
You have been playing Modern long enough to know how they correct what you brought up. It wont be with unabnning anything.
Whoops, I missed this the first time (MTGS y u no tell me people replied), so I'll address it now.
First off: u mad brah
Secondly, you say that you don't care about pure control, yet your requirements for control are strange. You count Scapeshift, which works I suppose, but you don't seem to count any tempo deck (which are essentially control), nor do you seem to count any Tron deck (which tend to be a ramp/control mix) or any of the Rock decks (which share many elements with control).
In what way is control not viable? Scapeshift was a powerful deck and is still completely playable. Tron is still good. Any BGx deck is still extremely good. Twin is fantastic. All share some elements of control and are doing fine in the metagame.
Thus my question, why does pure control have to exist, which is the only thing left. You discount any decks with control elements and leave only Ux decks with lots of counterspells and a bit of removal. That is not the basis for control.
Secondly, why does control have to have a large part of the metagame? The only really big control deck in Legacy is Miracles (and Lands, I suppose). They don't make up a huge part of the Legacy metagame. Why does Modern HAVE to be different?
Edit:
Bro, have you every heard of something called "generalizing?" Because that's what I was doing. The majority of the time you'll drop your combo or shave it to the bare minimum when you're playing against a tempo deck as Twin. There's too many ways to interact and stop your combo. Sometimes you'll keep one in to have that "oops I win" button in case they try to go for anything.
Also, that was from their game one. If you honestly think that you can sideboard before game 1, you're even worse at this game than I thought you were.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
You just categorized Twin, every tempo deck, Tron, and BGx as control. Even putting the control part of that aside, you just put lumped Twin, tempo, Tron, and BGx into one archetype. All of them. In one archetype. I'm just going to assume this is a joke.
Also your reading comprehension is abysmal. I'm not mad, I'm in wonder that you continue to reply to me and continue to betray your own ability to read. It is puzzling to me.
I'm under the impression if things don't look terrible at the GP they're going to let the format sit for a while rather than unban something and risk upsetting it again. If it does look similar to the PT results then I agree, either AV or Sword is going to come off. I hope one or both comes off either way, but in the former situation I'm not getting my hopes up.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Nice try bro. I said they had control elements, not that they were all in the control archetype. In fact, I specifically said Tron and Scapeshift were both control hybrids. I suggest taking two doses of reading comprehension and coming back when you're feeling a bit better.
But let's be honest here: it's impossible to determine how control can be aided in Modern if you don't give your standards for control, which are so nebulous and vague that you could discount any deck as being control. Put them down in writing here.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Wizards considers aggro control as a separate archetype from control. BGx obviously is an aggro-control deck because it can also be aggressive.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The only thing impossible here is trying to argue when you didn't read the posts you're replying to. If you have some point to make then go back, read, and try it again.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
I've read every single one. But I guess if you're too cowardly to actually say what you consider control to be, then I'm going to have to take your name at face value. Arguing with people like you is futile when they dodge every question and refuse to commit.
Come back to me when you get a spine, eh?
Warning for flaming
-ktkenshinx-
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU