Welcome to the Modern banlist discussion! Here, you can discuss everything related to the banlist, from questioning the possibility of unbans to recent announcements of new bannings.
Please follow a few simple rules while you are here.
All MTGS forum rules apply here. For example, if you see a user flaming, spamming, or trolling, please report him/her instead of responding to it.
It is okay to discuss Legacy only if it is related to Modern bans and unbans.
Discussion about dramatically increasing the size of the banlist by more than 2-3 cards is not allowed. In the past, this sort of discussion has derailed the thread into completely unconstructive debate. There is a fine line between approved ban discussion (e.g. cards that are consistently breaking the turn 4 rule in top tier decks, or cards that make oppressive top tier decks) and spammy, prohibited discussion (e.g. banning Immolating Souleater and Fling because they theoretically break the turn 4 rule). If you see someone doing this, report them instead of responding to it. If you have a question about this, feel free to get in touch with staff to ask.
Do not discuss the "death of Modern" or generally claim that it is dying.
Do not discuss reprints of new cards or card design. We have other threads for bothtopics.
Remember, this is a place to discuss, and have fun. Keep it civil and keep your posts constructive.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some reasons that cards are banned in Modern:
Some cards enable a top tier deck to consistently win on turn 3 or earlier. Because this violates the "turn 4" rule of the format, the following cards have been banned:
Other cards have been banned because they make certain decks too consistent/reliable and thus stagnate the format. Here are some examples of these cards:
Some cards, currently only one, are banned because they were just mistakes. This card is one of the most broken cards of all time and has been banned in almost every format where it was or is legal:
Finally, there are some cards that were banned for logistical reasons. These cards made tournaments last too long and were banned to make events run smoother. They were not necessarily banned for power reasons.
GGT unbanned is nice I guess, but I am completely in shock that Wizards didn't unban Bloodbraid Elf or Ancestral Visions and instead banned both Cruise and Dig as well as Pod.
Honestly GGT should have never been on. It wont do anything.
Why does dig get banned? THe card isnt great for delver and it gives control SOMETHING. A deck like dredgevine can make a real run at it here now. It overruns other midrange decks and thats all its gonna be with some Twin and Tron.
Well like i said, Pod is consistent engine that is always viable because there is always creatures. Looks like FNM promo BBEs are going to go back down.
Well, all things we expected in one way or another. Maybe they could have unbanned a couple more cards, too. I guess it's an issue of keeping Modern *under* a certain power level and not necessarily balanced.
Pod gone is huge! I guess Junk will be the hot new deck to come out of it. Also, this shakeup definitely gets my Mono U Tron juices flowing again. Control definitely gets a step up.
I am positive Sam Black will bring a GGT-abusing brew to his next PT. Dredgevine is back with a vengeance!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Dying with good cards in your hand is the surest sign that you did something wrong, somewhere." -Caleb Durward
Treasure Cruise getting the axe was not surprising. I said right from the beginning that the card was poorly thought out and a design mistake.
Too bad about Dig Through Time though. I felt that that one was fine as it was.
And well Birthing Pod
Everybody knew that it is a problem card that would have to be banned eventually. It's surprising that Wizards thinks that time is now though.
Honestly GGT should have never been on. It wont do anything.
Why does dig get banned? THe card isnt great for delver and it gives control SOMETHING. A deck like dredgevine can make a real run at it here now. It overruns other midrange decks and thats all its gonna be with some Twin and Tron.
As a Delver player, I will say that Dig does still work in the slower 3-color versions of Delver that aren't just Gut Shot and Thought Scour. I can understand why they might still be worried, but they should have waited and seen. This is banning Preordain and Ponder at the same time all over again.
I don't even play blue or Pod, and I have a hard time understanding this decision. Why does Bloodbraid Elf and AV remains banned? And if you're going to ban Pod at least unban Green Sun Zenith.
Even though this is by all means a good thing because now I can narrow my sideboard better.
But punting a deck right in the jewels (even if it earned it) and banning a pair of good cards whose biggest crime was being good, that's a direct assault on my principles.
Plus a 3:1 ban/unban rate, that's blech. Hell it might as well be 3:0 because GGT is pretty WOW IT'S NOTHING without Dread Return.
I would say Wotc let everyone know what they expect from the format and what direction they will be taking the format. Some will be upset, others not so much. I personally was surprised they hit DTT also. The next few months should be interesting to say the least.
Sure, there is a chance of spending $4 on a booster and getting the Mythic Rare $30 super card. There is also a chance of surviving putting your tongue in a light socket.
To be fair, having Birthing Pod run free while Green Sun's Zenith was banned didn't make a whole lot of sense. But, this is not the direction I was hoping they would go. Not leaving Dig Through Time is a little surprising.
No changes
Next B&R Announcement:
July 13, 2015 - 11:00 AM EST / 10:00 AM CST / 9:00 AM PST
------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the Modern banlist discussion! Here, you can discuss everything related to the banlist, from questioning the possibility of unbans to recent announcements of new bannings.
Please follow a few simple rules while you are here.
- All MTGS forum rules apply here. For example, if you see a user flaming, spamming, or trolling, please report him/her instead of responding to it.
- It is okay to discuss Legacy only if it is related to Modern bans and unbans.
- Discussion about dramatically increasing the size of the banlist by more than 2-3 cards is not allowed. In the past, this sort of discussion has derailed the thread into completely unconstructive debate. There is a fine line between approved ban discussion (e.g. cards that are consistently breaking the turn 4 rule in top tier decks, or cards that make oppressive top tier decks) and spammy, prohibited discussion (e.g. banning Immolating Souleater and Fling because they theoretically break the turn 4 rule). If you see someone doing this, report them instead of responding to it. If you have a question about this, feel free to get in touch with staff to ask.
- Do not discuss the "death of Modern" or generally claim that it is dying.
- Do not discuss reprints of new cards or card design. We have other threads for both topics.
Remember, this is a place to discuss, and have fun. Keep it civil and keep your posts constructive.------------------------------------------------------------------
- Current DCI Modern Banned List
- Ancestral Vision
- Ancient Den
- Birthing Pod
- Blazing Shoal
- Bloodbraid Elf
- Chrome Mox
- Cloudpost
- Dark Depths
- Deathrite Shaman
- Dig Through Time
- Dread Return
- Glimpse of Nature
- Great Furnace
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Hypergenesis
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Mental Misstep
- Ponder
- Preordain
- Punishing Fire
- Rite of Flame
- Seat of the Synod
- Second Sunrise
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Seething Song
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Skullclamp
- Sword of the Meek
- Treasure Cruise
- Tree of Tales
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Vault of Whispers
------------------------------------------------------------------Here are some reasons that cards are banned in Modern:
- Some cards enable a top tier deck to consistently win on turn 3 or earlier. Because this violates the "turn 4" rule of the format, the following cards have been banned:
- Ancient Den
- Blazing Shoal
- Chrome Mox
- Dark Depths
- Dread Return
- Glimpse of Nature
- Golgari Grave-Troll
- Great Furnace
- Hypergenesis
- Seat of the Synod
- Sword of the Meek
- Tree of Tales
- Vault of Whispers
- Other cards have been banned because they make certain decks too consistent/reliable and thus stagnate the format. Here are some examples of these cards:
- Ancestral Vision
- Cloudpost
- Deathrite Shaman
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Mental Misstep
- Ponder
- Preordain
- Punishing Fire
- Rite of Flame
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Some cards, currently only one, are banned because they were just mistakes. This card is one of the most broken cards of all time and has been banned in almost every format where it was or is legal:
- Finally, there are some cards that were banned for logistical reasons. These cards made tournaments last too long and were banned to make events run smoother. They were not necessarily banned for power reasons.
------------------------------------------------------------------Skullclamp
Sensei's Divining Top
Second Sunrise
The following are links to WotC's in-depth explanations as to why cards have gotten banned since the beginning of the format:
Community Cup Announcement with the Initial Ban List.
1st Banned List change with explanations
2nd Banned List change with explanations
3rd Banned List change with explanations
Removal of Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Addition of Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song
Addition of Second Sunrise
Bitterblossom/Nacatl Unbanned. DRS Banned
Birthing Pod/Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time banned, Golgari Grave-Troll unbanned
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Old threads:
7/14/2014 - 1/19/2015
2/9/2014 - 7/14/2014
1/20/2014 - 2/10/2014
6/23/2014 - 1/20/2014
4/22/2013 - 6/23/213
1/27/2013 - 4/22/13
9/20/2012 - 1/27/2013
7/19/2012 - 9/20/2012
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yes, it makes no sense at all.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Nope. Pre Ktk era minus Pod+ Siege Rhino.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Why does dig get banned? THe card isnt great for delver and it gives control SOMETHING. A deck like dredgevine can make a real run at it here now. It overruns other midrange decks and thats all its gonna be with some Twin and Tron.
Pod gone is huge! I guess Junk will be the hot new deck to come out of it. Also, this shakeup definitely gets my Mono U Tron juices flowing again. Control definitely gets a step up.
I am positive Sam Black will bring a GGT-abusing brew to his next PT. Dredgevine is back with a vengeance!
Modern
Legacy
Too bad about Dig Through Time though. I felt that that one was fine as it was.
And well Birthing Pod
Everybody knew that it is a problem card that would have to be banned eventually. It's surprising that Wizards thinks that time is now though.
As a Delver player, I will say that Dig does still work in the slower 3-color versions of Delver that aren't just Gut Shot and Thought Scour. I can understand why they might still be worried, but they should have waited and seen. This is banning Preordain and Ponder at the same time all over again.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
GWB Angel PodWBR Mardu MidrangeGWB Wilted Abzan
I guess this means that BRx can come back to run the block?
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Scapeshift tier1 deck here I come back to you!
Even though this is by all means a good thing because now I can narrow my sideboard better.
But punting a deck right in the jewels (even if it earned it) and banning a pair of good cards whose biggest crime was being good, that's a direct assault on my principles.
Plus a 3:1 ban/unban rate, that's blech. Hell it might as well be 3:0 because GGT is pretty WOW IT'S NOTHING without Dread Return.
Dust of your Ancient Grudges, boys.