I am planning to make this deck. What do you guys think of this decklist for an unknown meta (though if anyone knows what decks are popular at MTG Card Market, please tell me)?
Other than the land base, that's very close to my main deck. The differences between our MDs (again, other than how the land base is constructed) is:
-1 Chimera
-3 Deprive
-1 Electrolyze
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Land
+1 Vapor Snag
+2 Grim Lavamancer
+2 Pillar of Flame
I don't dislike loading on more counters, but if you play Deprive I'd imagine that you want more land in there to help you cast multiple spells a turn. If you want the same total number of counters as you've listed then consider shaving some or all Deprive for Mana Leak.
I like the MD Pillars and Lavamancers because they really help my first game %age against Pod, Affinity, and Merfolk.
For SB, I don't know that meta, sorry, but since you're leaning more counter-heavy MD I'd say you'll want to have considerable space for anti creature cards. Other than that, you know the big hitters in the format so prepare accordingly. I try to prepare for Twin, Pod, UWR, and Affinity while utilizing cards that can be run in other matchups like Boggles, Merfolk, Tron, Storm, etc. Cards like Magma Spray, Flame Slash, Combust, Dispel, Hibernation, Spellskite, Echoing Truth, Essence Scatter, Counterflux. I don't own any but a lot of people like Threads of Disloyalty, and some people have V-Clique in main, board, or both.
I might add another land.
Deprive is good because I don't play many lands. I am not drawing many lands so it generally causes very little tempo loss.
Pillar might be good against Melira Pod, but I would think that Burst Lightning is better against Affinity and Merfolk.
Lavamancer isn't that good without the fetchlands IMO.
Chimera is there because I wanted a strong lategame threat that works well earlier too (and because I can't afford V-Clique).
I am planning to make this deck. What do you guys think of this decklist for an unknown meta (though if anyone knows what decks are popular at MTG Card Market, please tell me)?
i would be very wary of playing more than two spell snare in your main. it is damn good but it is a conditional counter at the end of the day and g1 against certain decks it isn't going to do very much for you. take tron for example. if its U tron, the only thing it counters is their remand. if its GR tron, the only thing it counters is sylvan scrying, and thats not what you want to be countering. you want to avoid having dead cards, especially in game 1 so i think that 2-2 split of snare and pierce is the way to go.
chimera is interesting but it does have anti-synergy with snapcaster. it also is a bit high on the curve for this kind of deck. that said, its much better given that you aren't running any grim lavamancers, the lack of synergy there would be too big to ignore.
i would strongly advise playing mana leaks and cutting down on some deprive and remands in order to do so. mana leak may not seem like the best at a glance but it is as close as you are going to get to a hard counter at 2 mana.
as for sideboard, its really hard to play this deck to victory in a blind meta, and even harder to make a sideboard. watch out for the usual suspects like jund, twin, affinity, pod, etc.
i think my sideboard in my earlier post is pretty decent for an unknown meta, that was where i was at when i created it. for your reference:
the shackles are not for everyone. next time i think i will play tormods crypt instead of relic because i don't like to shut off my own snapcasters or grim lavamancers. vandalblast could easily be shattering spree and now that i know jund is the flavor of the month where i play, i will probably make room for a flame slash or two.
I am planning to make this deck. What do you guys think of this decklist for an unknown meta (though if anyone knows what decks are popular at MTG Card Market, please tell me)?
i would be very wary of playing more than two spell snare in your main. it is damn good but it is a conditional counter at the end of the day and g1 against certain decks it isn't going to do very much for you. take tron for example. if its U tron, the only thing it counters is their remand. if its GR tron, the only thing it counters is sylvan scrying, and thats not what you want to be countering. you want to avoid having dead cards, especially in game 1 so i think that 2-2 split of snare and pierce is the way to go.
That is true. Until I figure out the meta, I'll replace it with Burst Lightning. Even as a Shock it is pretty good in Modern and the option of casting it to deal 4 damage is pretty good.
chimera is interesting but it does have anti-synergy with snapcaster. it also is a bit high on the curve for this kind of deck. that said, its much better given that you aren't running any grim lavamancers, the lack of synergy there would be too big to ignore.
It is a little expensive, but I think that it works just fine as a 1 of.
i would strongly advise playing mana leaks and cutting down on some deprive and remands in order to do so. mana leak may not seem like the best at a glance but it is as close as you are going to get to a hard counter at 2 mana.
I'll keep testing, but Deprive has been working for me. When you have only 18 lands in a deck, it isn't much of a tempo loss to cast Deprive because you usually won't be drawing another land on the next turn.
as for sideboard, its really hard to play this deck to victory in a blind meta, and even harder to make a sideboard. watch out for the usual suspects like jund, twin, affinity, pod, etc.
i think my sideboard in my earlier post is pretty decent for an unknown meta, that was where i was at when i created it. for your reference:
the shackles are not for everyone. next time i think i will play tormods crypt instead of relic because i don't like to shut off my own snapcasters or grim lavamancers. vandalblast could easily be shattering spree and now that i know jund is the flavor of the month where i play, i will probably make room for a flame slash or two.
Fairly easily. Twin plays a lot of the same cards as us but they shave copies and spells to jam the combo. Since we're not interested in combo'ing, we have a greater density of the tempo cards and some more punch with the burn and YP$. It's pretty easy for us to leave up removal and/or counters on the important combo turns and profit from casting them with YP.
That said, this is definitely a matchup that punishes Deprive's double blue casting cost if you're still intent on running it.
well thats actually the reason i was running vedalken shackles. the twin player can't combo off or really do anything with creatures once you resolve a shackles. however, i think the best card for the matchup is combust. it kills all their creatures and it can't be countered. to me the tempo twin deck without its combo in hand is just a slower version of our own deck with all the same counterspells but with less mana efficient threats. if you can keep countermagic up for the hypothetical splinter twin, you should be fine.
well thats actually the reason i was running vedalken shackles. the twin player can't combo off or really do anything with creatures once you resolve a shackles. however, i think the best card for the matchup is combust. it kills all their creatures and it can't be countered. to me the tempo twin deck without its combo in hand is just a slower version of our own deck with all the same counterspells but with less mana efficient threats. if you can keep countermagic up for the hypothetical splinter twin, you should be fine.
Completely agree. Combust is an auto-include in our board because of its applicability for Twin and UWR Mid or Control (Colonnade primarily).
The only twin deck that is really a problem for us is rug twin. The combokill is really just gravy for them and our deck is weak to goyfs that escape countermagic. We are favored against most forms of twin because we establish a clock while forcing them to respect countermagic when they aim to play the combo. I usually win games against twin with a swarm of pyromancer tokens and some snapcasters. I also maindeck clique, which helps against combo matchups, but seems to be fading from popularity when I look at most other lists. I run a clique main deck over lavamancer primarily because I don't have fetchlands, but after many, many games I feel clique is the better card in most matches anyway.
I ran spellheart chimera in my sideboard to help close games out before I acquired vedalken shackles. I don't advise running any number in the maindeck or sideboard. This is a deck that loses almost every game that it falls behind in and doesn't need any help winning the games that it's already ahead in. Spellheart chimera is not a card that will pull you ahead when you are behind. The one-of 3 drop slot is best occupied by a sword or a vendilion clique. I realize that It may sound like I'm arguing against myself when I said I used to run it to help close out games; more specifically I ran it to help close out games against decks like soul sisters and blue white tron. They are popular in my meta. They don't run much in the way of targeted removal and can steal games from us if they go on too long, so having an obnoxiously large beater is exactly what those matches call for. However cards like vedalken shackles or mirrodin swords can fill that role while also being better than the chimera in most matches where you would want them. However if you are running the chimera because the other cards I mentioned are not within your budget, then by all means run them (but only in the sideboard), the look you get from opponents is hilarious when you play it and it's efficient enough I suppose, but seriously consider upgrading that spot.
I'm glad to see this deck seems to be picking up popularity, especially since we've been "demoted" from the "proven" threads ;p
Fairly easily. Twin plays a lot of the same cards as us but they shave copies and spells to jam the combo. Since we're not interested in combo'ing, we have a greater density of the tempo cards and some more punch with the burn and YP$. It's pretty easy for us to leave up removal and/or counters on the important combo turns and profit from casting them with YP.
That said, this is definitely a matchup that punishes Deprive's double blue casting cost if you're still intent on running it.
I am just having trouble dealing with Deceiver Exarch in my testing.
well thats actually the reason i was running vedalken shackles. the twin player can't combo off or really do anything with creatures once you resolve a shackles. however, i think the best card for the matchup is combust. it kills all their creatures and it can't be countered. to me the tempo twin deck without its combo in hand is just a slower version of our own deck with all the same counterspells but with less mana efficient threats. if you can keep countermagic up for the hypothetical splinter twin, you should be fine.
i would be very wary of playing more than two spell snare in your main. it is damn good but it is a conditional counter at the end of the day and g1 against certain decks it isn't going to do very much for you. take tron for example. if its U tron, the only thing it counters is their remand. if its GR tron, the only thing it counters is sylvan scrying, and thats not what you want to be countering. you want to avoid having dead cards, especially in game 1 so i think that 2-2 split of snare and pierce is the way to go.
Playing 3 Spell Snare is perfectly fine in Modern, you're essentially trading consistency for tempo since you're paying 1 to counter your opponent's 2 CMC spells. Spell Snare is incredibly powerful in the sense that it stops a turn 2 Goyf on the draw, and it's the best answer to Snapcaster Mage, the premier card of the Modern format. There are very few decks it's weak against, Living End being the only one where it doesn't hit anything of importance. Against Snapcaster decks, like RUG Twin, UWR variations, and UR Delver, it's a house. It's also one of the best card against match ups like Bogle and Affinity. Not playing Vendilion Clique alongside Spell Snare does make it slightly worse game 1 in some match ups.
i would be very wary of playing more than two spell snare in your main. it is damn good but it is a conditional counter at the end of the day and g1 against certain decks it isn't going to do very much for you. take tron for example. if its U tron, the only thing it counters is their remand. if its GR tron, the only thing it counters is sylvan scrying, and thats not what you want to be countering. you want to avoid having dead cards, especially in game 1 so i think that 2-2 split of snare and pierce is the way to go.
Playing 3 Spell Snare is perfectly fine in Modern, you're essentially trading consistency for tempo since you're paying 1 to counter your opponent's 2 CMC spells. Spell Snare is incredibly powerful in the sense that it stops a turn 2 Goyf on the draw, and it's the best answer to Snapcaster Mage, the premier card of the Modern format. There are very few decks it's weak against, Living End being the only one where it doesn't hit anything of importance. Against Snapcaster decks, like RUG Twin, UWR variations, and UR Delver, it's a house. It's also one of the best card against match ups like Bogle and Affinity. Not playing Vendilion Clique alongside Spell Snare does make it slightly worse game 1 in some match ups.
Fairly easily. Twin plays a lot of the same cards as us but they shave copies and spells to jam the combo. Since we're not interested in combo'ing, we have a greater density of the tempo cards and some more punch with the burn and YP$. It's pretty easy for us to leave up removal and/or counters on the important combo turns and profit from casting them with YP.
That said, this is definitely a matchup that punishes Deprive's double blue casting cost if you're still intent on running it.
I am just having trouble dealing with Deceiver Exarch in my testing.
Could you elaborate on this? What exactly about it is giving you trouble? Also, are you testing a bunch of game 1s or are you siding also?
Whenever I see Islands and Mountains I put my opponent on tempo twin unless they prove otherwise. It's doubtful a UWR player would have kept a hand with no white source, and I don't put anybody on the mirror unless they show me a Delver or YP (or SSS I guess). So that means you have to play around/through their T3 Exarch, T4 Twin. Make sure you have 2 mana up when you say "pass turn." Or even just 1 mana if you have a Vapor Snag in hand to float the mana then remove Exarch after it resolves. As for their T4, Snag on the Twin target is super nice if they're going for it without a Peek or backup. Spell Snare on the Twin is very good too, and so is Remand because it basically time walks them. You still have to play around it, but it gives you great knowledge and time.
In my experience it's all about knowing what to expect from the opponent. What are his lines, and which ones are better?
EDIT: Islands and Mountains could be Storm too, but that becomes evident very quickly.
Fairly easily. Twin plays a lot of the same cards as us but they shave copies and spells to jam the combo. Since we're not interested in combo'ing, we have a greater density of the tempo cards and some more punch with the burn and YP$. It's pretty easy for us to leave up removal and/or counters on the important combo turns and profit from casting them with YP.
That said, this is definitely a matchup that punishes Deprive's double blue casting cost if you're still intent on running it.
I am just having trouble dealing with Deceiver Exarch in my testing.
Could you elaborate on this? What exactly about it is giving you trouble? Also, are you testing a bunch of game 1s or are you siding also?
Whenever I see Islands and Mountains I put my opponent on tempo twin unless they prove otherwise. It's doubtful a UWR player would have kept a hand with no white source, and I don't put anybody on the mirror unless they show me a Delver or YP (or SSS I guess). So that means you have to play around/through their T3 Exarch, T4 Twin. Make sure you have 2 mana up when you say "pass turn." Or even just 1 mana if you have a Vapor Snag in hand to float the mana then remove Exarch after it resolves. As for their T4, Snag on the Twin target is super nice if they're going for it without a Peek or backup. Spell Snare on the Twin is very good too, and so is Remand because it basically time walks them. You still have to play around it, but it gives you great knowledge and time.
In my experience it's all about knowing what to expect from the opponent. What are his lines, and which ones are better?
EDIT: Islands and Mountains could be Storm too, but that becomes evident very quickly.
I am testing game 1s so that I know what my sideboard should be. Thanks for the help.
Thoughts / suggestions?
Still have some struggles against twin and U/B faeries
Dude rocks squelch!!!
Haha in all seriousness I think this list is pretty good but I would drop the stomping ground/ancient grudge plan for another island and a vandalblast or smelt or shattering spree. Also the squelch plan is only good when you are all-in on it. Its at its best when you blow up a fetchland on your t2 on the play. Id go up to 3 copies or just lose them alltogether. Since you run 19 land and you might be cutting a stomping ground for an island I think cryptic is ok here. If you dont add another blue source I would cut them for leaks. I used to run cryptic in my 18 land build. They werent reliable(rather, my deck couldnt reliably cast them. Cryptic itself might as well be called ol' reliable. I just dont think this deck is where they want to be).
Ive never played against ub fae. I dont understand why so many people on this thread seem to have trouble with twin. 2 card combo decks are this decks bread and butter.
I guess some tips for twin would be: vapor snag is probably your best card.
Establish a clock early. If you cant get a body on your board by 3 you should not have kept the hand. Once they have a bit more mana than us we lose the counter war.
Sandbag your counters for the combo. Nothing else they do matters. The cantrips in modern suck so its usually not worth it to counter them like it is vs the combo decks in legacy. This also means let them bolt/slash your delvers. Be a littke more protective of YP.
altered my deck a bit from last week. this time i was expecting jund everywhere again, so i maindecked a flame slash. shackles did so well last time so i decided i would maindeck one for fun, although they didn't show up much the whole evening. i wanted more reach and more ways to kill those beefy jund creatures game 1 so i opted to shave a vapor snag and a probe to play a pair of burst lightning which did work the whole evening. my sideboard didn't change much. played 1 engineered explosives because i am still afraid of that random person showing up and playing bogles and i wanted to kill all the memnites and ornithopters of the world. played 1 pithing needle on a whim i guess for pod and other matchups where it would have been funny, like picking cranial plating or karn or liliana.
round 1, 2-0 vs jund:
this match was pretty straightforward. did not let the guy have an upkeep with a bob ever because he was always at double digits of life when he did. i don't mind jund players having a bob out if they are at 10 or less life because i have the burn and reach to just kill them. flame slash did a lot of work here as it kills courser and killed a few medium sized goyfs. tectonic edge was also pretty huge in this matchup because it kills that annoying raging ravine. with tec edge and vapor snag, this matchup seemed much less scary to me than it did last week. the guy said he had batterskull and all kinds of other stuff sided in against me, but i didn't end up seeing it and i did have counterspells in hand if things were to get hairy.
round 2, 2-1 vs UWR control
game 1 i kept a super greedy one lander with delver, two pyromancers, serum visions, probe, and a bolt. somehow ended up getting there through my knowledge of my opponents hand to win. game two was really grindy and drawn out but i eventually succumbed to the control on his end. game 3 had my heart racing because there was only about 4 minutes left in the round when we were shuffling up. i drew the perfect hand for the situation with double delver and managed to kill him once we went to time and were on the fourth turn. really enjoyed burst lightning in this matchup. once we got past the early stages of the game, it gave me huge reach and burning his face for 4 to draw out a counterspell to slide in a pyromancer later on was really handy. tec edge was also really instrumental here in killing colonnades, which were the main threats on his end. i would not call this a favorable matchup. game 2 played out like a control mirror, there was plenty of remanding my own spells going on in order to stay ahead. remanding your own cryptic is the best feeling ever! i believe the games vs. blue decks are the most skill testing of all the matchups for this deck. you need to know when to go on the offensive and when to sit back and play draw-go with them.
round 3, 1-1-1 vs. UR twin (hi kevin if you're reading this!)
i got there game 1 with pyromancer tokens while keeping my opponents board state at a minimum. game two was really long and drawn out with me finally losing after putting my opponent to 1. it was really hard to decide the best play toward the end. he was at 2 and i had a vapor snag. my only good play at the time seemed to be vapor snagging his snapcaster back to his hand to avoid getting beaten down quickly from tiago beats, but it came back to bite me in the end when i got snap bolted and killed. game 3 went to time and nobody was able to finish the job. didn't draw either of my vedalken shackles in games 2 and 3 or things may have played out a bit differently, but hey, thats magic for you. i think 1-2 combusts are needed in my sideboard for next time. i thought i already had enough things for the twin matchup but combust is also very valuable vs UWR control as it kills colonnades for days.
round 4, 1-2 vs. UR fae delver
this round was against my friends deck which i would describe as the UR delver deck sans pyromancer but with spellstutters, vendillion cliques, mutavaults, and swords for fae, specifically sword of light and shadow, for doing something meaningful with x/1's after ETB triggers. he got me game 1 when we were both racing each other with t1 delvers. game two i was able to resolve a pyromancer and counter an electrolyze on his end and it was unwinnable for him once i had 3-4 tokens in play. game 3 was much more intense. i was at 9 life most of the game and the only thing keeping me from death was vedalken shackles, but eventually i had to make the choice between stealing something and mana leaking (which wouldn't have countered a spell) to get an extra token to chump block. i knew he had a snapcaster in hand, 6 untapped lands, and a cystic in his graveyard to all i could do was scoop at that point.
not sure what i will change for next week, but stay tuned! i'll be trying to continually improve my analyses and the deck. i think i need to get on the deprive train though. mana leak was making me really sad in the drawn out games i had against other blue decks. there was even a point against UWR control where i had double mana leak AND a spell pierce and it still wasn't enough to counter what he was doing. perhaps shaving a leak or two for deprives is in order. also, i was borrowing a friends cryptic commands this week. i won't have an opportunity to use them next week and am trying to consider what to play in their place. maindeck counterflux wouldn't be bad. also if i am playing deprives then i could maybe justify an izzet charm since it can throw away the unnecessary land that deprive gives back to me. thoughts?
Nice report. Might have one posted tomorrow myself. May or may not be attending tuesday night modern.
2 cryptics and 2 tec edges alongside 17 color producing land is... ambitious. Brutal when your deck is running great. I see this configuration shooting itself in the foot more often than not, though. When you can't get your hands on cryptic, I suggest +1 remand and +1 spell pierce/snare. I would also suggest losing a tec edge for more spell snare/pierce (its a meta call, whichever you go with)
Ive been thinking about switching to the deprive plan in the board myself. I like the thought of using izzet charm to loot away excess land BUT: izzet charm is just outside of playable in this deck. I dont think a little added utility with a sideboard card gives it enough push. What would you really cut from the main to include izzet charm? And don't say vedalken shackles because that should be a remand anyway ;). Interesting choice though.
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i had a version of the deck awhile ago that had izzet charms mostly to feed grim lavamancer, but i just don't think its a very good fit. none of the modes are that ideal. the two damage doesn't kill a lot of creatures, the counter is weaker than mana leak and more conditional, and the card draw is only truly good when you have lands to pitch. izzet charm is a terrible topdeck and i wouldn't play it for that reason.
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I might add another land.
Deprive is good because I don't play many lands. I am not drawing many lands so it generally causes very little tempo loss.
Pillar might be good against Melira Pod, but I would think that Burst Lightning is better against Affinity and Merfolk.
Lavamancer isn't that good without the fetchlands IMO.
Chimera is there because I wanted a strong lategame threat that works well earlier too (and because I can't afford V-Clique).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
i would be very wary of playing more than two spell snare in your main. it is damn good but it is a conditional counter at the end of the day and g1 against certain decks it isn't going to do very much for you. take tron for example. if its U tron, the only thing it counters is their remand. if its GR tron, the only thing it counters is sylvan scrying, and thats not what you want to be countering. you want to avoid having dead cards, especially in game 1 so i think that 2-2 split of snare and pierce is the way to go.
chimera is interesting but it does have anti-synergy with snapcaster. it also is a bit high on the curve for this kind of deck. that said, its much better given that you aren't running any grim lavamancers, the lack of synergy there would be too big to ignore.
i would strongly advise playing mana leaks and cutting down on some deprive and remands in order to do so. mana leak may not seem like the best at a glance but it is as close as you are going to get to a hard counter at 2 mana.
as for sideboard, its really hard to play this deck to victory in a blind meta, and even harder to make a sideboard. watch out for the usual suspects like jund, twin, affinity, pod, etc.
i think my sideboard in my earlier post is pretty decent for an unknown meta, that was where i was at when i created it. for your reference:
1 dismember
1 dispel
1 negate
1 counterflux
2 relic of progenitus
2 pillar of flame
1 spell snare
1 spell pierce
1 spellskite
1 electrolyze
1 vandalblast
the shackles are not for everyone. next time i think i will play tormods crypt instead of relic because i don't like to shut off my own snapcasters or grim lavamancers. vandalblast could easily be shattering spree and now that i know jund is the flavor of the month where i play, i will probably make room for a flame slash or two.
That is true. Until I figure out the meta, I'll replace it with Burst Lightning. Even as a Shock it is pretty good in Modern and the option of casting it to deal 4 damage is pretty good.
It is a little expensive, but I think that it works just fine as a 1 of.
I'll keep testing, but Deprive has been working for me. When you have only 18 lands in a deck, it isn't much of a tempo loss to cast Deprive because you usually won't be drawing another land on the next turn.
This looks pretty good. Thanks for the help.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Fairly easily. Twin plays a lot of the same cards as us but they shave copies and spells to jam the combo. Since we're not interested in combo'ing, we have a greater density of the tempo cards and some more punch with the burn and YP$. It's pretty easy for us to leave up removal and/or counters on the important combo turns and profit from casting them with YP.
That said, this is definitely a matchup that punishes Deprive's double blue casting cost if you're still intent on running it.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Completely agree. Combust is an auto-include in our board because of its applicability for Twin and UWR Mid or Control (Colonnade primarily).
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I ran spellheart chimera in my sideboard to help close games out before I acquired vedalken shackles. I don't advise running any number in the maindeck or sideboard. This is a deck that loses almost every game that it falls behind in and doesn't need any help winning the games that it's already ahead in. Spellheart chimera is not a card that will pull you ahead when you are behind. The one-of 3 drop slot is best occupied by a sword or a vendilion clique. I realize that It may sound like I'm arguing against myself when I said I used to run it to help close out games; more specifically I ran it to help close out games against decks like soul sisters and blue white tron. They are popular in my meta. They don't run much in the way of targeted removal and can steal games from us if they go on too long, so having an obnoxiously large beater is exactly what those matches call for. However cards like vedalken shackles or mirrodin swords can fill that role while also being better than the chimera in most matches where you would want them. However if you are running the chimera because the other cards I mentioned are not within your budget, then by all means run them (but only in the sideboard), the look you get from opponents is hilarious when you play it and it's efficient enough I suppose, but seriously consider upgrading that spot.
I'm glad to see this deck seems to be picking up popularity, especially since we've been "demoted" from the "proven" threads ;p
I am just having trouble dealing with Deceiver Exarch in my testing.
Thanks for reminding me about Combust.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Watch out for Spellskite though.
That doesn't stop Combust.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Spellskite cannot redirect combust because it isn't a legal target. Spellskite is also a good weapon of our own for the twin matchup.
I wish that Combust could target any creature. Then I'd play it maindeck in every red deck that I could.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Haha basically a red abrupt decay. MaRo are you reading this? Red could use some love...
At the very least they could print a card like this
Lightning Lash RR
Instant
Lightning Lash deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
Actually, that doesn't seem that broken (for Modern).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Playing 3 Spell Snare is perfectly fine in Modern, you're essentially trading consistency for tempo since you're paying 1 to counter your opponent's 2 CMC spells. Spell Snare is incredibly powerful in the sense that it stops a turn 2 Goyf on the draw, and it's the best answer to Snapcaster Mage, the premier card of the Modern format. There are very few decks it's weak against, Living End being the only one where it doesn't hit anything of importance. Against Snapcaster decks, like RUG Twin, UWR variations, and UR Delver, it's a house. It's also one of the best card against match ups like Bogle and Affinity. Not playing Vendilion Clique alongside Spell Snare does make it slightly worse game 1 in some match ups.
Please quote the right person. I didn't say that.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Could you elaborate on this? What exactly about it is giving you trouble? Also, are you testing a bunch of game 1s or are you siding also?
Whenever I see Islands and Mountains I put my opponent on tempo twin unless they prove otherwise. It's doubtful a UWR player would have kept a hand with no white source, and I don't put anybody on the mirror unless they show me a Delver or YP (or SSS I guess). So that means you have to play around/through their T3 Exarch, T4 Twin. Make sure you have 2 mana up when you say "pass turn." Or even just 1 mana if you have a Vapor Snag in hand to float the mana then remove Exarch after it resolves. As for their T4, Snag on the Twin target is super nice if they're going for it without a Peek or backup. Spell Snare on the Twin is very good too, and so is Remand because it basically time walks them. You still have to play around it, but it gives you great knowledge and time.
In my experience it's all about knowing what to expect from the opponent. What are his lines, and which ones are better?
EDIT: Islands and Mountains could be Storm too, but that becomes evident very quickly.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I am testing game 1s so that I know what my sideboard should be. Thanks for the help.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Dude rocks squelch!!!
Haha in all seriousness I think this list is pretty good but I would drop the stomping ground/ancient grudge plan for another island and a vandalblast or smelt or shattering spree. Also the squelch plan is only good when you are all-in on it. Its at its best when you blow up a fetchland on your t2 on the play. Id go up to 3 copies or just lose them alltogether. Since you run 19 land and you might be cutting a stomping ground for an island I think cryptic is ok here. If you dont add another blue source I would cut them for leaks. I used to run cryptic in my 18 land build. They werent reliable(rather, my deck couldnt reliably cast them. Cryptic itself might as well be called ol' reliable. I just dont think this deck is where they want to be).
Ive never played against ub fae. I dont understand why so many people on this thread seem to have trouble with twin. 2 card combo decks are this decks bread and butter.
I guess some tips for twin would be: vapor snag is probably your best card.
Establish a clock early. If you cant get a body on your board by 3 you should not have kept the hand. Once they have a bit more mana than us we lose the counter war.
Sandbag your counters for the combo. Nothing else they do matters. The cantrips in modern suck so its usually not worth it to counter them like it is vs the combo decks in legacy. This also means let them bolt/slash your delvers. Be a littke more protective of YP.
Run vendilion clique.
i'm reporting back just as i said i would after playing another modern event at my LGS. i ended up going 2-1-1 with this list:
4 young pyromancer
3 snapcaster mage
2 grim lavamancer
4 lightning bolt
4 serum visions
3 gitaxian probe
3 mana leak
2 cryptic command
2 remand
2 spell snare
1 spell pierce
1 vedalken shackles
2 burst lightning
3 vapor snag
1 flame slash
3 shivan reef
3 sulfur falls
2 tectonic edge
1 mountain
6 island
1 engineered explosives
1 negate
1 counterflux
1 dispel
1 dismember
1 vandalblast
1 vedalken shackles
2 pillar of flame
1 spell snare
1 spell pierce
2 tormod's crypt
1 spellskite
1 pithing needle
altered my deck a bit from last week. this time i was expecting jund everywhere again, so i maindecked a flame slash. shackles did so well last time so i decided i would maindeck one for fun, although they didn't show up much the whole evening. i wanted more reach and more ways to kill those beefy jund creatures game 1 so i opted to shave a vapor snag and a probe to play a pair of burst lightning which did work the whole evening. my sideboard didn't change much. played 1 engineered explosives because i am still afraid of that random person showing up and playing bogles and i wanted to kill all the memnites and ornithopters of the world. played 1 pithing needle on a whim i guess for pod and other matchups where it would have been funny, like picking cranial plating or karn or liliana.
round 1, 2-0 vs jund:
this match was pretty straightforward. did not let the guy have an upkeep with a bob ever because he was always at double digits of life when he did. i don't mind jund players having a bob out if they are at 10 or less life because i have the burn and reach to just kill them. flame slash did a lot of work here as it kills courser and killed a few medium sized goyfs. tectonic edge was also pretty huge in this matchup because it kills that annoying raging ravine. with tec edge and vapor snag, this matchup seemed much less scary to me than it did last week. the guy said he had batterskull and all kinds of other stuff sided in against me, but i didn't end up seeing it and i did have counterspells in hand if things were to get hairy.
round 2, 2-1 vs UWR control
game 1 i kept a super greedy one lander with delver, two pyromancers, serum visions, probe, and a bolt. somehow ended up getting there through my knowledge of my opponents hand to win. game two was really grindy and drawn out but i eventually succumbed to the control on his end. game 3 had my heart racing because there was only about 4 minutes left in the round when we were shuffling up. i drew the perfect hand for the situation with double delver and managed to kill him once we went to time and were on the fourth turn. really enjoyed burst lightning in this matchup. once we got past the early stages of the game, it gave me huge reach and burning his face for 4 to draw out a counterspell to slide in a pyromancer later on was really handy. tec edge was also really instrumental here in killing colonnades, which were the main threats on his end. i would not call this a favorable matchup. game 2 played out like a control mirror, there was plenty of remanding my own spells going on in order to stay ahead. remanding your own cryptic is the best feeling ever! i believe the games vs. blue decks are the most skill testing of all the matchups for this deck. you need to know when to go on the offensive and when to sit back and play draw-go with them.
round 3, 1-1-1 vs. UR twin (hi kevin if you're reading this!)
i got there game 1 with pyromancer tokens while keeping my opponents board state at a minimum. game two was really long and drawn out with me finally losing after putting my opponent to 1. it was really hard to decide the best play toward the end. he was at 2 and i had a vapor snag. my only good play at the time seemed to be vapor snagging his snapcaster back to his hand to avoid getting beaten down quickly from tiago beats, but it came back to bite me in the end when i got snap bolted and killed. game 3 went to time and nobody was able to finish the job. didn't draw either of my vedalken shackles in games 2 and 3 or things may have played out a bit differently, but hey, thats magic for you. i think 1-2 combusts are needed in my sideboard for next time. i thought i already had enough things for the twin matchup but combust is also very valuable vs UWR control as it kills colonnades for days.
round 4, 1-2 vs. UR fae delver
this round was against my friends deck which i would describe as the UR delver deck sans pyromancer but with spellstutters, vendillion cliques, mutavaults, and swords for fae, specifically sword of light and shadow, for doing something meaningful with x/1's after ETB triggers. he got me game 1 when we were both racing each other with t1 delvers. game two i was able to resolve a pyromancer and counter an electrolyze on his end and it was unwinnable for him once i had 3-4 tokens in play. game 3 was much more intense. i was at 9 life most of the game and the only thing keeping me from death was vedalken shackles, but eventually i had to make the choice between stealing something and mana leaking (which wouldn't have countered a spell) to get an extra token to chump block. i knew he had a snapcaster in hand, 6 untapped lands, and a cystic in his graveyard to all i could do was scoop at that point.
not sure what i will change for next week, but stay tuned! i'll be trying to continually improve my analyses and the deck. i think i need to get on the deprive train though. mana leak was making me really sad in the drawn out games i had against other blue decks. there was even a point against UWR control where i had double mana leak AND a spell pierce and it still wasn't enough to counter what he was doing. perhaps shaving a leak or two for deprives is in order. also, i was borrowing a friends cryptic commands this week. i won't have an opportunity to use them next week and am trying to consider what to play in their place. maindeck counterflux wouldn't be bad. also if i am playing deprives then i could maybe justify an izzet charm since it can throw away the unnecessary land that deprive gives back to me. thoughts?
2 cryptics and 2 tec edges alongside 17 color producing land is... ambitious. Brutal when your deck is running great. I see this configuration shooting itself in the foot more often than not, though. When you can't get your hands on cryptic, I suggest +1 remand and +1 spell pierce/snare. I would also suggest losing a tec edge for more spell snare/pierce (its a meta call, whichever you go with)
Ive been thinking about switching to the deprive plan in the board myself. I like the thought of using izzet charm to loot away excess land BUT: izzet charm is just outside of playable in this deck. I dont think a little added utility with a sideboard card gives it enough push. What would you really cut from the main to include izzet charm? And don't say vedalken shackles because that should be a remand anyway ;). Interesting choice though.