I have to see decklists of people who find snaps and grim getting along without fetchlands in this deck (aside-snaps and grim also sounds like a sweet idea for an mtg comic strip, bouncy lil tiago and a curmudgeony ol' grim. I gotta get going on that You heard it here first). The only cards I feel comfortable eating with grim are cantrips. Pierce and leak too if the game goes on long. I was actually thinking about trying the 1/1 split since there seems to be a lot of insistence that they can coexist peacefully without fetchlands. In my testing, if my lavamancer survived on the board, most of the time there wasn't much of an issue but there were several games where I'd regretted eating a remand or a leak but had no other choices at the time, or I just couldnt bring myself to eat a bolt. I think the tension is primarily early on in the game. Later on when you have several copies of any given card in the yard it probably isnt so bad. Hence why its not so good without fetchlands, as this deck doesnt wanna play too long anyway.
My meta probably has just as much affinity as it does twin. I've found clique to be amazing against twin, you dont have to tap out on turn three and get smashed by exarch. You can though, since the turn just gets passed to you and you can deal with the exarch or bait them into trying to combo out. I usually beat affinity without too much of a problem so I just never felt I needed grim. Im gonna give him a try tonight though.
And yeah theres a good shot at dickmans list being out in full force this weekend.
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When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
You don't have to play Grim Lavamancer right away, there are so many cards to lead with for this deck (Probe, Visions, Delver, tapped Steam Vents). Don't forget that you can also exile your creatures for free as well.
Sweet, 3.7% of day 2 meta at GP Minneapolis, hopefully we can keep this going so that we can have the third criteria filled out to be in the Proven section again.
I went first in a 9 man at a LGS, mostly due to opponents mulling to 4 and another mulling to 5. Granted, I was up a game on both matches.
My misplays for the game:
1. Playing Grim Lavamancer instead of playing Young Pyromancer turn 2 when I had no other spells against Tron. I was afraid of a Pyroclasm on my board, but either way, because I had a second Young Pyromancer, I should have been more mana efficient.
2. Grim Lavamancer is hard. UR Delver is dependent on being mana efficient, and it's difficult to plan your turns ahead knowing whether you will or won't activate Grim Lavamancer. I skipped an attack step with no graveyard with an active Grim Lavamancer, that was dumb.
3. Game 2 against RW Lockdown, I Snapcastered a Lightning Bolt in response to him blowing up my Steam Vents with Pillage instead of waiting for a land to flash back Negate, and then I ran the Snapcaster and Young Pyromancer into the Anger of the Gods that I saw with Gitaxian Probe. Always check your opponent's hands if you saw it with Probe before you plan out your turn.
Speaking of Grim Lavamancer, I've cut the Vendilion Cliques and gone to 2 Grim Lavamancer and a third on the sideboard. The card is great and incredibly good at grinding games out, I would much rather be able to run Grim Lavamancer than Mutavault. You can also kill an elemental token in response to blocking Wurmcoil Engine attack, that's pretty amazing in my book. I've also added a Counterflux on the sideboard along a Dispel for the UWR match up. The 4 Spell Snare is a local meta call.
In lieu of having 2x Grim Lavamancer, I'm thinking of adding an extra Mountain in the deck. There is no longer a need for double U outside of the occasional Counterflux, and double R becomes more relevant especially against Ajani Vengeant, Tectonic Edge, and the general post board against creature/Affinity decks without having to take a Shock.
I just realised I can build this deck from other decks I already have as long as I keep it super budget. This would just be for fun at a FNM, so any advice for a list that can't afford fetches/snap/clique?
In lieu of having 2x Grim Lavamancer, I'm thinking of adding an extra Mountain in the deck. There is no longer a need for double U outside of the occasional Counterflux, and double R becomes more relevant especially against Ajani Vengeant, Tectonic Edge, and the general post board against creature/Affinity decks without having to take a Shock.
I cut one Grim Lavamancer also. It's nice early against some decks but with 2x you can't reliably count on it, and it's better late-game against most decks anyway. I put the 2nd copy in the board. The open Main Deck slot became a Mana Leak. This feels like a positive step because it gives me 3 Leak, 3 Remand, 3 Snare, 1 Pierce as main deck counters, with a Dispel, Snare, and 2 Counterflux in the board. It also swaps a creature for an instant to help Delver flips and YP triggers (and Snappy food).
RE: your tournament report. Pillage is not a Modern-legal card. The last Standard-legal set it was printed in was 7th Edition, a core set before Modern's cutoff of 8th Edition.
I just realised I can build this deck from other decks I already have as long as I keep it super budget. This would just be for fun at a FNM, so any advice for a list that can't afford fetches/snap/clique?
I've actually never played vs jund but it doesn't seem like a good matchup. I imagine young pyromancer is our go-to threat here. Protect it as long as you can and hope your dorks get there. I think we have better chances with game 2 and 3 since we can attack their mana with blood moon. Squelch/spreading seas seems good here.
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When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
I know there has been some discussion in the middleish of this thread about the swords, but I haven't seen any recently. Have they just fallen by the wayside? I feel like something like War and Peace or Light and Shadow could be very effective as a singleton in this deck. Also, what do you guys think about running Grim Lavamancer in the sideboard for those who don't run fetches. That way he's not even there in the now super lackluster matches but you can side him in against aggro.
So I noticed that Dickmann and Mackl both played a Keranos in their SB for the more grindy matchups, including Jund. Was wondering if this might be something we could consider?
Keranos seems like he could help against jund but I would hate tapping out after finally reaching five mana to have it get pulsed. Theyre keeping all of their removal so I would rather bring something like vedalken shackles or threads of disloyalty. With shackles you can actually deal with their goyf before it gets pulsed and with threads its tthe same thing only youve traded three mana for three mana instead of five mana for three mana.
I wouldn't side out delvers. You still have to win with creatures and they'll still have all their removal. With fewer threats you have fewer ways to exhaust their answers, which is probably hard enough to do. I would probably side out gitaxian probe for the same package. Also I would advise finding room for blood moon. Just pull as much value from pyro as possible and make those elementals go the distance.
Again this is all theoretical as I havent played against jund with this deck. However this deck is really malleable and there isn't really a "stock" list as it should always be tuned cor your expected metagame. So if jund is a big part of your meta and your current list is a dog to it I would probably adjust the list to max out on spell snare to halt goys and max out on spell pierce to shut down their removal and lillies. It may even be a good idea to maindeck one copy of blood moon.
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When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
Even Twin lists are running Grim Lavamancer, it's just better in the meta right now. Grim Lavamancer is definitely better than Vendilion Clique again Twin here because there is no time that you can tap out for Vendilion Clique without Deceiver Exarch coming into play, which is an automatic 2 for 1 without Grim Lavamancer.
Here's Patrick Dickmann's list from the Bazaar of Moxen last week:
I played in GP Minneapolis this past weekend on a version of UR Aggro. I ended up going 6-2-1. My draw that kept me from making day 2 was against Blue Moon with him dead on board. (Still a little salty about that one)
Round 1: Bye
Round 2: Bye
Round 3: Affinity W:2-0 (Recall and electrolyze in conjunction is insane.)
Round 4: UWR Control L:0-2 (This is a difficult match up which was made way worse by never making it past 3 lands with a hand full of snapcasters.)
Round 5: Blue Moon D: 1-1 (Had him dead on board when we went to time. Especially proud of game one as I had to navigate around a shackled grim lavamancer)
Round 6: Twin W: 2-0 (I playtested against twin more than any other deck. Felt like I was running circles around the fellow. Vapor snag for days!)
Round 7: Twin W: 2-0 (See above.)
Round 8: Affinity W: 2-0 (Triple electrolyze in game one made this round a breeze.)
Round 9: Affinity L: 0-2 (Kept a few sketchy hands that gone ran over pretty hard.)
I couldn't see Grim Lavamancer enough. That card is absolutely insane in some match ups!
//Creature (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
If I were to make changes to the deck, I'd consider splashing green for ancient grudge out of the sideboard. Or maybe splashing black for rakdos charm. Either way, I feel the need to diversify the sideboard a bit.
What is the reason behind not splashing green for goyfs over pyros in this deck? Tried looking for the answer to this a few pages back but can't find it.
What is the reason behind not splashing green for goyfs over pyros in this deck? Tried looking for the answer to this a few pages back but can't find it.
Well there are a few reasons. The first is that typical lists won't have enchantments, artifacts (though sometimes Pike), tribal or planeswalkers to feed him. The most your side of the board can get him is 4/5. At that point you can argue he's worse than yp since yp can get the same or more power on the board but spread across more threats.
You can add those card types but they're permanents, which makes your delvers, snapcasters, and lavamancers worse.
Been tinkering around like the rest of you. Here's my list (note: 16 lands isn't as bad as you'd think it is, and sorry for no card tags; on mobile phone):
Creatures: 14
4x Delver
4x Snap
4x Young Pyro
2x Grim (sometimes a 1/1 Grim/Clique split)
My meta probably has just as much affinity as it does twin. I've found clique to be amazing against twin, you dont have to tap out on turn three and get smashed by exarch. You can though, since the turn just gets passed to you and you can deal with the exarch or bait them into trying to combo out. I usually beat affinity without too much of a problem so I just never felt I needed grim. Im gonna give him a try tonight though.
And yeah theres a good shot at dickmans list being out in full force this weekend.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/232512
Here's another with 2x Grim Lavamancer that also went 4-2:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/232318
Yet another that went 4-1:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/232147
You don't have to play Grim Lavamancer right away, there are so many cards to lead with for this deck (Probe, Visions, Delver, tapped Steam Vents). Don't forget that you can also exile your creatures for free as well.
I went first in a 9 man at a LGS, mostly due to opponents mulling to 4 and another mulling to 5. Granted, I was up a game on both matches.
My misplays for the game:
1. Playing Grim Lavamancer instead of playing Young Pyromancer turn 2 when I had no other spells against Tron. I was afraid of a Pyroclasm on my board, but either way, because I had a second Young Pyromancer, I should have been more mana efficient.
2. Grim Lavamancer is hard. UR Delver is dependent on being mana efficient, and it's difficult to plan your turns ahead knowing whether you will or won't activate Grim Lavamancer. I skipped an attack step with no graveyard with an active Grim Lavamancer, that was dumb.
3. Game 2 against RW Lockdown, I Snapcastered a Lightning Bolt in response to him blowing up my Steam Vents with Pillage instead of waiting for a land to flash back Negate, and then I ran the Snapcaster and Young Pyromancer into the Anger of the Gods that I saw with Gitaxian Probe. Always check your opponent's hands if you saw it with Probe before you plan out your turn.
Speaking of Grim Lavamancer, I've cut the Vendilion Cliques and gone to 2 Grim Lavamancer and a third on the sideboard. The card is great and incredibly good at grinding games out, I would much rather be able to run Grim Lavamancer than Mutavault. You can also kill an elemental token in response to blocking Wurmcoil Engine attack, that's pretty amazing in my book. I've also added a Counterflux on the sideboard along a Dispel for the UWR match up. The 4 Spell Snare is a local meta call.
2x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
2x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
4x Spell Snare
2x Vapor Snag
Sorcery (9)
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Pillar of Flame
4x Serum Visions
5x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
Creature (14)
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Young Pyromancer
1x Batterskull
2x Blood Moon
1x Combust
1x Counterflux
1x Dispel
1x Electrolyze
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Magma Spray
2x Negate
1x Shatterstorm
1x Spellskite
4 Mutavault
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
8 Island
4 Mountain
12 creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Electrolyze
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Vapor Snag
(Also bonus points for whoever can guess which 3 modern decks I play to build this without any monetary investment)
I cut one Grim Lavamancer also. It's nice early against some decks but with 2x you can't reliably count on it, and it's better late-game against most decks anyway. I put the 2nd copy in the board. The open Main Deck slot became a Mana Leak. This feels like a positive step because it gives me 3 Leak, 3 Remand, 3 Snare, 1 Pierce as main deck counters, with a Dispel, Snare, and 2 Counterflux in the board. It also swaps a creature for an instant to help Delver flips and YP triggers (and Snappy food).
RE: your tournament report. Pillage is not a Modern-legal card. The last Standard-legal set it was printed in was 7th Edition, a core set before Modern's cutoff of 8th Edition.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Storm, Burn, and Merfolk?
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
UR delver preys on combo and other winnie strategies but Jund is a big kryptonite... has anyone got experience on how to overcome this hill?
I posted my fetch/snap/clique-less list there, it should be exactly what you're looking for.
The delvers are really bad here as they get killed by any removal and don't get value. Worse if they just stay as 1/1 for a while before flipping.
Agree YP is key, but it will still die one way or another, just have to get some value by casting it turn 4 or turn 5 with some instants or card draw.
Batterskull seems to be the only path to victory as they need Pulse to deal with it.
Otherwise its uphill all the way.....
I wouldn't side out delvers. You still have to win with creatures and they'll still have all their removal. With fewer threats you have fewer ways to exhaust their answers, which is probably hard enough to do. I would probably side out gitaxian probe for the same package. Also I would advise finding room for blood moon. Just pull as much value from pyro as possible and make those elementals go the distance.
Again this is all theoretical as I havent played against jund with this deck. However this deck is really malleable and there isn't really a "stock" list as it should always be tuned cor your expected metagame. So if jund is a big part of your meta and your current list is a dog to it I would probably adjust the list to max out on spell snare to halt goys and max out on spell pierce to shut down their removal and lillies. It may even be a good idea to maindeck one copy of blood moon.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Round 1: Bye
Round 2: Bye
Round 3: Affinity W:2-0 (Recall and electrolyze in conjunction is insane.)
Round 4: UWR Control L:0-2 (This is a difficult match up which was made way worse by never making it past 3 lands with a hand full of snapcasters.)
Round 5: Blue Moon D: 1-1 (Had him dead on board when we went to time. Especially proud of game one as I had to navigate around a shackled grim lavamancer)
Round 6: Twin W: 2-0 (I playtested against twin more than any other deck. Felt like I was running circles around the fellow. Vapor snag for days!)
Round 7: Twin W: 2-0 (See above.)
Round 8: Affinity W: 2-0 (Triple electrolyze in game one made this round a breeze.)
Round 9: Affinity L: 0-2 (Kept a few sketchy hands that gone ran over pretty hard.)
I couldn't see Grim Lavamancer enough. That card is absolutely insane in some match ups!
//Creature (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
//Instant (19)
3 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
3 Vapor Snag
//Sorcery (8)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
//Land (19)
6 Island
1 Mountain
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
SB: 1 Anger of the Gods
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Combust
SB: 2 Counterflux
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Hibernation
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Magma Spray
SB: 1 Shatterstorm
SB: 1 Spellskite
If I were to make changes to the deck, I'd consider splashing green for ancient grudge out of the sideboard. Or maybe splashing black for rakdos charm. Either way, I feel the need to diversify the sideboard a bit.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Well there are a few reasons. The first is that typical lists won't have enchantments, artifacts (though sometimes Pike), tribal or planeswalkers to feed him. The most your side of the board can get him is 4/5. At that point you can argue he's worse than yp since yp can get the same or more power on the board but spread across more threats.
You can add those card types but they're permanents, which makes your delvers, snapcasters, and lavamancers worse.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Creatures: 14
4x Delver
4x Snap
4x Young Pyro
2x Grim (sometimes a 1/1 Grim/Clique split)
Spells:30
4x Remand
4x Probe
4x Serum Visions
3x Mana Leak
3x Spell Pierce
3x Spell Snare
4x Bolt
2x Pillar of Flame
3x Vapor Snag
Lands: 16
4x Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Island
1x Mountain
3x Shivan Reef