BW tokens was never about speed and always about inevitability or card advantage. bitterblossom, in my opinion, is the single best token producer of this variety ever printed and as such, of course will see play. Even if you pyroclasm away the tokens one turn, another pops out next turn, for the simple cost of one life. It being an enchantment is that much better because it's much harder to blow sky high. To be honest, for the whole card advantage thing (tokens style, at any rate) only lingering souls is almost as good and it's still not as good as bitterblossom.
Honestly, I think we will see BG/x making a big shift over to either white for lingering souls/KotR/kitchen finks, or it will shift back towards the loam assualt type of deck. Both decks heavily utilized the graveyard. I think BG/x will probably stay up on the top tables, just not as much as before which is nice.
It's hard to say where the meta will go now. DRS kept a lot of things out of the format. With it being gone, the list of cards that are playable again is nearly endless.
Here is a list off the top of my head what is now considerably more playable with DRS gone (some of which are already seeing some play):
Honestly, I think we will see BG/x making a big shift over to either white for lingering souls/KotR/kitchen finks, or it will shift back towards the loam assualt type of deck. Both decks heavily utilized the graveyard. I think BG/x will probably stay up on the top tables, just not as much as before which is nice.
It's hard to say where the meta will go now. DRS kept a lot of things out of the format. With it being gone, the list of cards that are playable again is nearly endless.
Here is a list off the top of my head what is now considerably more playable with DRS gone (some of which are already seeing some play):
Honestly, I think we will see BG/x making a big shift over to either white for lingering souls/KotR/kitchen finks, or it will shift back towards the loam assualt type of deck. Both decks heavily utilized the graveyard. I think BG/x will probably stay up on the top tables, just not as much as before which is nice.
It's hard to say where the meta will go now. DRS kept a lot of things out of the format. With it being gone, the list of cards that are playable again is nearly endless.
Here is a list off the top of my head what is now considerably more playable with DRS gone (some of which are already seeing some play):
That's a lot of ****, and a lot of different strategies now become significantly more viable. Best bring your Scoozes.
You forgot Breaking // Entering. Now that DRS is banned, I am finally going to make Breaking Bad Reanimator a thing. Also, Polymorph with Bitterblossom is going to be sweet and less BGx will make Possibility Storm much more playable.
You forgot Breaking // Entering. Now that DRS is banned, I am finally going to make Breaking Bad Reanimator a thing. Also, Polymorph with Bitterblossom is going to be sweet and less BGx will make Possibility Storm much more playable.
No. I only listed cards that were playable now that DRS is gone. Breaking // entering is still bad. Also, why would Polymorph or Possibility storm now be any better? People are still going to play hand disruption and counterspells.
No. I only listed cards that were playable now that DRS is gone. Breaking // entering is still bad. Also, why would Polymorph or Possibility storm now be any better? People are still going to play hand disruption and counterspells.
Breaking // Entering works just fine. Cascade into Breaking // Entering casting Entering is legal, and 6 cmc is usually too high to be affected by Spellstutter Sprite. Polymorph gets to play around with Bitterblossom. And hopefully less hand disruption will be played now that BGx is going to be played less, which helps Possibility Storm (unless if UB Fae plays as much hand disruption as BGx).
I'm not certain how much better Breaking Bad Reanimator will get because Pod Chord of Calling for Scavenging Ooze is still a thing. (This was the most brutal thing that happened back when I initially tested the deck--Deathrite and Ooze without Flash were manageable with Kindle the Carnage and Oblivion Ring effects, and Leyline of Sanctity muffed a lot of other graveyard hate, but Oozes with Flash felt as brutal as Surgical Extraction.)
As for regular predictions, I predict the rise of UBx Faeries (I predict some Grixis Faeries play with maindeck Firespout/Rough // Tumble because its Pod match-up doesn't suck compared to UB Faeries's), Gruul-like Naya Zoo (way more 10 power on Turn 2 "Magical Christmas Land" plays--now both E1/Nacatl, BTE, BTE, Flinthoof/Nacatl and E1/Nacatl, BTE, Kird Ape, Nacatl pull it off), and BW Tokens (I don't know whether it'll try fitting in Bob or not).
If UB Faeries gets really popular, Pod will be its predator (Pod had awesome UB Faeries match-ups from my testing), and Geist of Saint Win will have a good time (Traft backed up with burn tended to transform Bitterblossom into a burn spell that hit its controller).
If BW Tokens ends up becoming the bigger boogeyman, RG Tron still eats it alive (hello Oblivion Stone).
If Zoo ends up surfacing on top, here's for faster combo decks rising!
I'm not certain how much better Breaking Bad Reanimator will get because Pod Chord of Calling for Scavenging Ooze is still a thing. (This was the most brutal thing that happened back when I initially tested the deck--Deathrite and Ooze without Flash were manageable with Kindle the Carnage and Oblivion Ring effects, and Leyline of Sanctity muffed a lot of other graveyard hate, but Oozes with Flash felt as brutal as Surgical Extraction.)
The thing is, Pod needs 6 mana or 4-5 mana and some creatures that don't produce mana to Chord in a Scavenging Ooze and then exile a creature. Also, Breaking // Entering tends to get at least 2 creatures into the graveyard. The Pod player rarely will have enough mana for that on turn 3.
I feel tron is hurt massively by this. A new faster deck in the format that can drop multiple 3 power guys the first few turns that pyroclasm cant kill. Faeries has tons of counters and tokens which make karn weak.
Plus jund will lose popularity and it was its best matchup.
I feel tron is hurt massively by this. A new faster deck in the format that can drop multiple 3 power guys the first few turns that pyroclasm cant kill. Faeries has tons of counters and tokens which make karn weak.
Plus jund will lose popularity and it was its best matchup.
On the bright side for Tron, Pod will gain popularity and that was an even better matchup than Jund was.
Here's the deck I've been using to test Faeries in the Banned List Testing thread. As with all reactive decks this is one that's going to thrive on calling the meta right, then splashing colors, biasing between Tempo/Control, hedging card choices, and a good sideboard based on your expected local metagame. You need to play perfect on the day and make good deckbuilding decisions the night before or you'll lose.
This is my version of the jack-of-all-trades versatility approach with a heavy control bias (it fits my play style). It seemed like a decent jumping off point with neutral-ish matchups but also didn't have any overwhelmingly good matchups either (except the all-in early combo decks):
I expect that from the get-go, either Grixis (tempo) or BUG (control) Faeries will be the best versions for an unknown metagame depending on what you like.
The deck tends to get mauled by Voice of Resurgence (usually nearly unwinnable if it resolves) and Pod in general, and I haven't seen a lot of the new 8-rack deck going around, but I imagine its a really really bad matchup.
1) Jund takes a large hit, still viable but no where near as attractive as it once was
2) Fae becomes popular, it has a lot of work to do before it proves itself a Tier 1, but it has a good match up against Tron and UWR, possibly Twin as well - not sure on last one
3) Zoo will be Tier 1, I don't think there is any question about this.
4) With Zoo Tier 1 Affinity loses a lot of popularity
5) Twin survives this relatively unscathed, it's match against Fae remains to be decoded. Black's Discard might play a factor here.
6) Tron takes a rather large indirect hit. It was made to be a jund killer, and now jund falls off and is replaced by Fae which is pretty solid against Tron.
7) UWR Control vs Fae...who wins? I would have said it would be a toss up until I saw a guy playing Cavern of Souls. That card was not available last time we saw Fae, and I have to believe its good vs UWR and Twin. Makes Spellstutter a Counterflux on a body.
...and my little 8Rack deck gets an enormous boost in Bitterblossom. The meta shifts above (if even remotely accurate) are also a huge boost for 8Rack. I know almost no one cares about 8Rack but its my baby and it just got a rocket launcher.
What do you guys think the best decks will be after the update takes effect? I am guessing that Faeries, Merfolk, Zoo, Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, and Splinter Twin will be the best decks, with BGx, Affinity, WB Tokens, Griselbrand Reanimator, Living End, and WUR Control coming close behind. Also, just wondering, did the joint ban of Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song affect the meta as much as this will?
What do you guys think the best decks will be after the update takes effect? I am guessing that Faeries, Merfolk, Zoo, Melira Pod, Kiki Pod, and Splinter Twin will be the best decks, with BGx, Affinity, WB Tokens, Griselbrand Reanimator, Living End, and WUR Control coming close behind. Also, just wondering, did the joint ban of Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song affect the meta as much as this will?
I mostly agree with those positions but Tron is missing and is a wild card with it's extremely screwed up list of good and bad matchups.
I'm confused as to why people think American midrange won't stay tier 1...on one hand, faeries will be good against it, but America has quite a few great sideboard cards (namely, Wear//Tear, Baneslayer Angel, Bonfire of the Damned, Thundermaw Hellkite, Batterskull). Naya Zoo is not really a threat from my playtesting because of all the damage in America midrange, and if it did become a problem, that would complete the shift towards blade splicer...
I think the meta could become really balanced now, after the update. We already have 1 more aggro and tempo deck. Losing DRS gives Gifts Control and UW Tron a chance to shine.
I think the meta could become really balanced now, after the update. We already have 1 more aggro and tempo deck. Losing DRS gives Gifts Control and UW Tron a chance to shine.
The question is how many decks will be weakened/pushed out.
What's important is that a CHANGE was made. The effect does not matter much. What matters is that it will keep us talking, testing, arguing, and otherwise busy for the next three months. Isn't it great?
What's important is that a CHANGE was made. The effect does not matter much. What matters is that it will keep us talking, testing, arguing, and otherwise busy for the next three months. Isn't it great?
the ones who say URW and geist will be better in this metagame never player urw and geist.
a double token block on geist and he's gone, and zoo is too fast for the deck especially if they play blood moon mb
Zoo isn't going to play Blood Moon mainboard. It makes Nacatl and Kird Ape worse and makes it much harder to cast creatures like Loxodon Smiter and Voice of Resurgence. You are right though that WUR Midrange isn't going to have an easy time in this meta.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
It's hard to say where the meta will go now. DRS kept a lot of things out of the format. With it being gone, the list of cards that are playable again is nearly endless.
Here is a list off the top of my head what is now considerably more playable with DRS gone (some of which are already seeing some play):
1 Raven's Crime
1 Life from the Loam
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical teachings
1 Vengevine
1 Bloodghast
1 Lingering Souls
1 Unburial Rites
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Kitchen Finks
1 think twice
1 Darkblast
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Footsteps of the Goryo
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Tarmogoyf (seems kind of funny, but it gets better with DRS gone)
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Eternal Witness
That's a lot of ****, and a lot of different strategies now become significantly more viable. Best bring your Scoozes.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Rest in Peace and Relic of Progenitus become a bit more important now
Might be time to try Gifts storm once again
You forgot Breaking // Entering. Now that DRS is banned, I am finally going to make Breaking Bad Reanimator a thing. Also, Polymorph with Bitterblossom is going to be sweet and less BGx will make Possibility Storm much more playable.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
No. I only listed cards that were playable now that DRS is gone. Breaking // entering is still bad. Also, why would Polymorph or Possibility storm now be any better? People are still going to play hand disruption and counterspells.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Mark my words...with the new best mana dork being Noble Heirarch again, Snapcaster Mage getting more powerful, and Knight of the Reliquary getting infinitely more powerful, you should be afraid of BANT...
Breaking // Entering works just fine. Cascade into Breaking // Entering casting Entering is legal, and 6 cmc is usually too high to be affected by Spellstutter Sprite. Polymorph gets to play around with Bitterblossom. And hopefully less hand disruption will be played now that BGx is going to be played less, which helps Possibility Storm (unless if UB Fae plays as much hand disruption as BGx).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
As for regular predictions, I predict the rise of UBx Faeries (I predict some Grixis Faeries play with maindeck Firespout/Rough // Tumble because its Pod match-up doesn't suck compared to UB Faeries's), Gruul-like Naya Zoo (way more 10 power on Turn 2 "Magical Christmas Land" plays--now both E1/Nacatl, BTE, BTE, Flinthoof/Nacatl and E1/Nacatl, BTE, Kird Ape, Nacatl pull it off), and BW Tokens (I don't know whether it'll try fitting in Bob or not).
If UB Faeries gets really popular, Pod will be its predator (Pod had awesome UB Faeries match-ups from my testing), and Geist of Saint Win will have a good time (Traft backed up with burn tended to transform Bitterblossom into a burn spell that hit its controller).
If BW Tokens ends up becoming the bigger boogeyman, RG Tron still eats it alive (hello Oblivion Stone).
If Zoo ends up surfacing on top, here's for faster combo decks rising!
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
The thing is, Pod needs 6 mana or 4-5 mana and some creatures that don't produce mana to Chord in a Scavenging Ooze and then exile a creature. Also, Breaking // Entering tends to get at least 2 creatures into the graveyard. The Pod player rarely will have enough mana for that on turn 3.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Plus jund will lose popularity and it was its best matchup.
On the bright side for Tron, Pod will gain popularity and that was an even better matchup than Jund was.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is my version of the jack-of-all-trades versatility approach with a heavy control bias (it fits my play style). It seemed like a decent jumping off point with neutral-ish matchups but also didn't have any overwhelmingly good matchups either (except the all-in early combo decks):
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Mistbind Clique
Enchantments - 4
4 Bitterblossom
Spells - 16
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
3 Smother
2 Dismember
3 Shadow of Doubt
4 Mutavault
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
4 Island
2 Swamp
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Deathmark
2 Extirpate
3 Spreading Seas
2 Annul
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Dissipate
2 Damnation
1 Cranial Extraction
I expect that from the get-go, either Grixis (tempo) or BUG (control) Faeries will be the best versions for an unknown metagame depending on what you like.
The deck tends to get mauled by Voice of Resurgence (usually nearly unwinnable if it resolves) and Pod in general, and I haven't seen a lot of the new 8-rack deck going around, but I imagine its a really really bad matchup.
Speculate less. Test more.
Melira Pod was a better matchup than Jund. Kiki-Pod was definitely a worse matchup than Jund, though, at least in my experience.
1) Jund takes a large hit, still viable but no where near as attractive as it once was
2) Fae becomes popular, it has a lot of work to do before it proves itself a Tier 1, but it has a good match up against Tron and UWR, possibly Twin as well - not sure on last one
3) Zoo will be Tier 1, I don't think there is any question about this.
4) With Zoo Tier 1 Affinity loses a lot of popularity
5) Twin survives this relatively unscathed, it's match against Fae remains to be decoded. Black's Discard might play a factor here.
6) Tron takes a rather large indirect hit. It was made to be a jund killer, and now jund falls off and is replaced by Fae which is pretty solid against Tron.
7) UWR Control vs Fae...who wins? I would have said it would be a toss up until I saw a guy playing Cavern of Souls. That card was not available last time we saw Fae, and I have to believe its good vs UWR and Twin. Makes Spellstutter a Counterflux on a body.
...and my little 8Rack deck gets an enormous boost in Bitterblossom. The meta shifts above (if even remotely accurate) are also a huge boost for 8Rack. I know almost no one cares about 8Rack but its my baby and it just got a rocket launcher.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I mostly agree with those positions but Tron is missing and is a wild card with it's extremely screwed up list of good and bad matchups.
|
|
Big Johnny.
The question is how many decks will be weakened/pushed out.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Cardsphere MTG Draft Simulator
Cardsphere Blog - Original Content
True. The format was getting stale.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
ashiok decks go? ashiok/liliana decks go?
turn 1: inquisition, t2: blossom t3: walker...wheeee christmasland plz. Ashiok seems much more viable now which is interesting.
I think a lot of new decks will pop up from this ban/unban, ones not even on the radar yet.
Zoo isn't going to play Blood Moon mainboard. It makes Nacatl and Kird Ape worse and makes it much harder to cast creatures like Loxodon Smiter and Voice of Resurgence. You are right though that WUR Midrange isn't going to have an easy time in this meta.
Free Bloodbraid Elf.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.