From now on when discussing the modern meta, use this thread. What should be discussed in this thread? Here are some examples, although they definitely aren't exclusive.
Is Twin/Scapeshift/Merfolk dead?
Is _____ a good deck right now?
Is Infect ready to take the meta by storm?
Will Humans Tribal be a deck in the future?
Any other free form metagame discussion!
Its also OK to talk about topics like this:
I saw this card today... does it work in the meta?
i am gonna start this thread with a couple of questions:
1) is affinity a good choice right now?
2) in your opinion, is theros gonna shake the modern metagame or will it remain this way until next set?
Theros is an EDH set with a lot of high mana bombs but not broken low mana cards. Maybe the Thassa is an exception, which may sees some play in Merfolk. So I don't think Theros will shake up Modern.
Theros reminds me of world wake in terms of power. I don't think it's unreasonable to view it as maybe a sleeper set. And affinity is a great choice right now. With the format being control, tempo, and combo that can be raced. Midrange is still everywhere though and that's a bad matchup.
i am gonna start this thread with a couple of questions:
1) is affinity a good choice right now?
2) in your opinion, is theros gonna shake the modern metagame or will it remain this way until next set?
1) Affinity is an awesome choice right now, at least if MTGO is any indication. In the past few weeks, it has risen from being in the top 5-6 most-played decks to being the most played deck period across the Modern scene. It is also one of the most overperforming decks online right now. Affinity players make up just over 8% of the metagame, but they make up a disproportionate 12.5% share of the 4-0/3-1 finishes. That deck is totally on fire right now. Although I expect the pendulum to swing the other way, as it often does on even the best decks, it's definitely a good sign for Affinity players everywhere.
2) Legacy players are happy if 1-2 cards has any impact on the format. RtR and Inn were sort of exceptions to this with a lot more playable staples. Modern is a smaller format, relative to Legacy, so I would expect maybe 2-3 times that many playables in a format (realistically, 1.5 to 2, if we want to be pessimistic). In both format's cases, it is unlikely that those cards will dramatically alter a format, but they should either introduce decks or improve existing ones. I expect the same with Theros. Theros should introduce a few generally playable cards, improve 1-2 decks, and create 1 new one.
I'm not an expert of MTGO modern meta but aren't affinity decks easily hated out?
All their creatures, with the relative exception of Etched Champion, seem very vulnerable to me.
The rising of this archetype in popularity isn't a consequence of a relative cheap cost, a fast aggro tempo that doesn't exhaust the players during dailies and a temporary reduction of SB hate?
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
The affinity success has been going on for about 2 weeks. Until then gruul zoo was the aggro king. But after worlds gb rock has gone way up in numbers and that deck kicks zoo in the metaphorical balls. But affinity has a speed edge (exploive but unstable deal) and can race it it. Sometime racing still beats out over hate.
I'm sure the cost has something to do with it, but affinity is fine right now. The deck has been fighting hate since it was made. It's more likely to faulter due to its own draws being crappy in all reality.
i am gonna start this thread with a couple of questions:
1) is affinity a good choice right now?
2) in your opinion, is theros gonna shake the modern metagame or will it remain this way until next set?
To answer number 2, I looked through the cards and spoiled so far for what might be playable. The cards that might be played are Stormbreath Dragon (as a replacement for Thundermaw Hellkite), Sylvan Caryatid (as a split with Birds of Paradise in Pod decks), Destructive Revelry (as a sideboard card), Thassa (in merfolk), and possibly Xenagos (in a gruul aggro build with more expensive cards). Nykthos might inspire its own build, but it is unlikely. However, none of these cards will change the metagame at all.
This seems like a really awkward thread, given how...well...aren't most threads metagame focused?
Anyways, I don't think Twin/Scapeshift/Merfolk can ever be considered 'dead' without their hearts being banned out(which is to say Merfolk will never die). Popularity is a gradient, and its numbers may have diminished, but dead would be unplayable, 0. Just like burn, they are always going to see some level of play, and some level of success.
Those were just examples. And no. It's a free form discussion, where anything related to the modern meta is acceptable. It's better to have one thread than 23 three reply threads.
The problem I see with this thread is the difference between the paper meta and on line. When I play in paper I see much different decks then I see when I play on line (MTGO). I think some of it has to do with cost of said decks and availability of cards.
Anyway, in paper I have been seeing a lot of D&T controlish builds along with scapeshift with counters and different builds of tron. On line I see a lot of rogue decks. The main 'proven' decks I see on line are affinity and tron.
I dont know how much relevance Is vedalken shackles still a safe main deck card option in UR decks or is it a dead card in too many matchups to be more than SB right now? Taking into consideration bocephys's statement its paper meta leaning toward Gr tron. My thoughts are that racing or outplaying that deck in particular potentially leads to an influx of creatures outclassed by bolt.
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
While I agree the online and the paper are differnt, they do inform each other. and people can (and have been) specifying what meta they are talking about.
Plus the online meta thread hasnt been touched in almost a month, and hasn't been updated in a year.
What is the meta at Detroit expected to be? I've heard there will be a lot of affinity, which seems likely. What other decks will make a showing?
I'll be making a GP Detroit thread on Monday or Tuesday to get discussion going. I have some theories about what is going to be there, but they are just theories supported by the decks of Worlds and MTGO. BG Rock is really quite strong; 4 Tectonic Edge is just quite good in this format, along with the maindecked Dismember and Scavenging Ooze/Goyf pair. I'm also thinking that this is going to be RG Tron's big debut tournament, along with a few other ideas of how it will look. Affinity seems like a good bet as well; it's definitely the "Best" aggro deck in the format now, even if it is relatively easy to board against. I'll start setting that GP thread up soon.
I expect a bunch of UWR Control at GP Detroit to be honest. If people are predicting this Affinity shift, UWR is decently poised in that matchup, being able to bring in all manners of Wraths to complement the burn they already have, plus the usual stuff like Wear // Tear and Stony Silence. I also find UWR Control to be very solid against RG Tron, since it's easy to Sowing Salt them, and with cards like Tec Edge and Shadow of Doubt, you can completely crush them early and keep them from Tron. We've seen it online, it's like 10% of the meta right now if not more. If you're in green, be prepared with Thruns.
I'm also expecting a kiblar Naya. He's been focusing a lot... ALOT, on making it be able to beat Jund, affinity, and control... Mostly control. 4 domris because Jund and control and tempo simply can't deal with it.
Is any grave based deck dead because Ooze+Deathrite ?
Jund! Jk. Yes there is. Generally, you can't play all in grave deck, but you can do two options. Either use the grave as an extension of the hand in the same way snap faster decks do, or more midrange dredge does, or you go super explosive like grizzlebanned does. Madness or legacy dredge doesn't exist, because it doesn't have the same enablers like lions eye diamond.
I agree with magix. Living end has so much land destruction. It kind of reminds me of the RTR block graveyard hate vs junk rites. They would just play their turn 3 or 4 acidic slime and then blink it and just win through regular midrange/land destruction.
2) in your opinion, is theros gonna shake the modern metagame or will it remain this way until next set?
It's hard to say.
A lot of the content looks very Standard-minded, but it also strikes me as the kind of set that will sneak in something absolutely outrageous. Some cards are clearly flavor-first, and that's a double edged sword, but there are others like the black self-hate card that look really great once a particular narrow scenario rears its ugly head.
Incidentally I'm wondering if this set might be the final push needed to get Enchantress rolling in Modern. While the format lacks a resilient variant of the namesake draw engine, it does have access to Mesa and Verduran Enchantresses, a decent start I'd say. I think we're more fleshed out in the actual enchantments worth playing (incidentally, Blood Moon underplayed much?), and if any set is likely to spawn good Enchantress material, it'd be an Enchantments block (like Urza block's Argothian!)
Man I actually want to talk more about the enchantments of the format, there are some snazzy ones out there (is it just me or is Blind Obedience the best Kismet variant around?) and I'm not sure if I should spew it out here or if I can go off and make an MCD about it...
I'm not an expert of MTGO modern meta but aren't affinity decks easily hated out?
All their creatures, with the relative exception of Etched Champion, seem very vulnerable to me.
The rising of this archetype in popularity isn't a consequence of a relative cheap cost, a fast aggro tempo that doesn't exhaust the players during dailies and a temporary reduction of SB hate?
- L
I've noticed that Affinity is much more resilient to hate than you'd think.
Spot removal is less good because of Thoughtcast and their ability to just spit their hand out onto the board and kill you before you draw enough answers.
Their manlands make them a bit more resilient to sweeper effects, which can be more than enough to close out a game if they get an aggressive start.
I'm curious about the Esper Blade deck that was posted on the Mothership yesterday (9/10/13). Was that just a lucky run or does this deck have some real potential?
Eh, I honestly would never put any faith in a deck that tries to caw out (seriously, swarming some Hawks into your hand and calling it CA always felt like a total load in my eyes... which is a bit hypocritical since I'm a major Ranger of Eos fan)
Especially without a reliable sword tutor in this scenario.
Plus come to think of it, Abrupt Decay hits swords. Bit of a valid weakness wouldn't you say?
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Theros is an EDH set with a lot of high mana bombs but not broken low mana cards. Maybe the Thassa is an exception, which may sees some play in Merfolk. So I don't think Theros will shake up Modern.
1) Affinity is an awesome choice right now, at least if MTGO is any indication. In the past few weeks, it has risen from being in the top 5-6 most-played decks to being the most played deck period across the Modern scene. It is also one of the most overperforming decks online right now. Affinity players make up just over 8% of the metagame, but they make up a disproportionate 12.5% share of the 4-0/3-1 finishes. That deck is totally on fire right now. Although I expect the pendulum to swing the other way, as it often does on even the best decks, it's definitely a good sign for Affinity players everywhere.
2) Legacy players are happy if 1-2 cards has any impact on the format. RtR and Inn were sort of exceptions to this with a lot more playable staples. Modern is a smaller format, relative to Legacy, so I would expect maybe 2-3 times that many playables in a format (realistically, 1.5 to 2, if we want to be pessimistic). In both format's cases, it is unlikely that those cards will dramatically alter a format, but they should either introduce decks or improve existing ones. I expect the same with Theros. Theros should introduce a few generally playable cards, improve 1-2 decks, and create 1 new one.
All their creatures, with the relative exception of Etched Champion, seem very vulnerable to me.
The rising of this archetype in popularity isn't a consequence of a relative cheap cost, a fast aggro tempo that doesn't exhaust the players during dailies and a temporary reduction of SB hate?
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I'm sure the cost has something to do with it, but affinity is fine right now. The deck has been fighting hate since it was made. It's more likely to faulter due to its own draws being crappy in all reality.
RG Tron
UR Delver/Twin
Grand Architect
Standard:
Junk Tokens
To answer number 2, I looked through the cards and spoiled so far for what might be playable. The cards that might be played are Stormbreath Dragon (as a replacement for Thundermaw Hellkite), Sylvan Caryatid (as a split with Birds of Paradise in Pod decks), Destructive Revelry (as a sideboard card), Thassa (in merfolk), and possibly Xenagos (in a gruul aggro build with more expensive cards). Nykthos might inspire its own build, but it is unlikely. However, none of these cards will change the metagame at all.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Anyways, I don't think Twin/Scapeshift/Merfolk can ever be considered 'dead' without their hearts being banned out(which is to say Merfolk will never die). Popularity is a gradient, and its numbers may have diminished, but dead would be unplayable, 0. Just like burn, they are always going to see some level of play, and some level of success.
Anyway, in paper I have been seeing a lot of D&T controlish builds along with scapeshift with counters and different builds of tron. On line I see a lot of rogue decks. The main 'proven' decks I see on line are affinity and tron.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
RG Tron is tearing up MTGO along with Affinity. It's currently the second most-played deck after Affinity, and one of the highest performing overall.
Plus the online meta thread hasnt been touched in almost a month, and hasn't been updated in a year.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
I'll be making a GP Detroit thread on Monday or Tuesday to get discussion going. I have some theories about what is going to be there, but they are just theories supported by the decks of Worlds and MTGO. BG Rock is really quite strong; 4 Tectonic Edge is just quite good in this format, along with the maindecked Dismember and Scavenging Ooze/Goyf pair. I'm also thinking that this is going to be RG Tron's big debut tournament, along with a few other ideas of how it will look. Affinity seems like a good bet as well; it's definitely the "Best" aggro deck in the format now, even if it is relatively easy to board against. I'll start setting that GP thread up soon.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Jund! Jk. Yes there is. Generally, you can't play all in grave deck, but you can do two options. Either use the grave as an extension of the hand in the same way snap faster decks do, or more midrange dredge does, or you go super explosive like grizzlebanned does. Madness or legacy dredge doesn't exist, because it doesn't have the same enablers like lions eye diamond.
It's hard to say.
A lot of the content looks very Standard-minded, but it also strikes me as the kind of set that will sneak in something absolutely outrageous. Some cards are clearly flavor-first, and that's a double edged sword, but there are others like the black self-hate card that look really great once a particular narrow scenario rears its ugly head.
Incidentally I'm wondering if this set might be the final push needed to get Enchantress rolling in Modern. While the format lacks a resilient variant of the namesake draw engine, it does have access to Mesa and Verduran Enchantresses, a decent start I'd say. I think we're more fleshed out in the actual enchantments worth playing (incidentally, Blood Moon underplayed much?), and if any set is likely to spawn good Enchantress material, it'd be an Enchantments block (like Urza block's Argothian!)
Man I actually want to talk more about the enchantments of the format, there are some snazzy ones out there (is it just me or is Blind Obedience the best Kismet variant around?) and I'm not sure if I should spew it out here or if I can go off and make an MCD about it...
I've noticed that Affinity is much more resilient to hate than you'd think.
Spot removal is less good because of Thoughtcast and their ability to just spit their hand out onto the board and kill you before you draw enough answers.
Their manlands make them a bit more resilient to sweeper effects, which can be more than enough to close out a game if they get an aggressive start.
You can hope to draw Stony Silence, but even then, you've got to contend with Etched Champion, manlands, Signal Pest + a swarm of Ornithopters and Memnites, and anything that gets counters from Ravager. Plus, they play Spell Pierce and Wear / Tear.
It's harder for them to win against hate, sure, but don't think for a second that they're going to just fold to it.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
Especially without a reliable sword tutor in this scenario.
Plus come to think of it, Abrupt Decay hits swords. Bit of a valid weakness wouldn't you say?