Banned List Discussion outside of this thread is Prohibited and will be Infracted!
To summarize Wizards' position, they feel they have banned cards that give decks the ability to either win or be in a controlling position by turn 3.
These cards fall in that list:
Ancient Den
Blazing Shoal
Chrome Mox
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Seat of the Synod
Sword of the Meek
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
The other main category of cards exist because they make decks too consistant/reliable and thus hamper the deck diversity of the metagame. I think these cards are the best candidates for an unbanning.
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Cloudpost
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Ponder
Preordain
Punishing Fire
Rite of Flame
Stoneforge Mystic
Umezawa's Jitte
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Then there are cards which wizards currently feels were mistakes or were never really tested in eternal formats.
Skullclamp
Sensei's Divining Top
I realize Jace/Stoneforge could possibly be here depending on your point of view.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
i'm a bit disappointed that nothing came off the list. so currently the only real shakeups we'll have are the new cards that are released into standard.
i guess my wallet thanks me for not having to buy bitterblossoms... gotta get duals and fetches now. haha
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Meh, I feel stuff should come off the ban list, but I have no interest in participating in the bruhaha that would ensue from Bocephus and other more conservative players post-unban. Thus I am fine with no change, as I tire of defending progressive ideas to people who want Modern to be continually want good deck-building to be punished.
Now, if they had done something stupid like ban Snapcaster or Delver or Fetchlands, then I would have worked up some outrage, but since they just kept everything at the conservative status quo I cannot seem to muster it.
BAN, uh...Mimic Vat...yea, that's the one. It makes 5c Zubera way too consistent and powerful.
Meh, I feel stuff should come off the ban list, but I have no interest in participating in the bruhaha that would ensue from Bocephus and other more conservative players post-unban. Thus I am fine with no change, as I tire of defending progressive ideas to people who want Modern to be continually want good deck-building to be punished.
Now, if they had done something stupid like ban Snapcaster or Delver or Fetchlands, then I would have worked up some outrage, but since they just kept everything at the conservative status quo I cannot seem to muster it.
BAN, uh...Mimic Vat...yea, that's the one. It makes 5c Zubera way too consistent and powerful.
Exactly, as no reasonable conclusion is ever reached and it just leaves most people with a bad taste in their mouths.
Even though it may not seem like it sometimes, I do have faith in this format. I know they'll unban something from the current list of cards someday and some people will be happy, some will be frustrated and think its the end of the format, as people will do. We just have to adapt to Wizard's pace of doing things.
Meh, I feel stuff should come off the ban list, but I have no interest in participating in the bruhaha that would ensue from Bocephus and other more conservative players post-unban. Thus I am fine with no change, as I tire of defending progressive ideas to people who want Modern to be continually want good deck-building to be punished.
Now, if they had done something stupid like ban Snapcaster or Delver or Fetchlands, then I would have worked up some outrage, but since they just kept everything at the conservative status quo I cannot seem to muster it.
BAN, uh...Mimic Vat...yea, that's the one. It makes 5c Zubera way too consistent and powerful.
No bruha, I play with whats available. Thats what I have been trying to tell people for over a year. Just play with what is available and stop worrying about what is on the B&R list. The format is never going to be perfect for everyone playing it.
Why are you even still here bocephus? You never have anything relevant to say. By your own admission, you don't care. Please do everyone a favor and stop wasting everyone's time.
That's a kind of inflammatory response, don't you think? Just because he's a nay-sayer doesn't mean his input isn't valid. It's nice to see the other side of the argument rather than the threat turn into a circle jerk of "uban this" -> "i agree!"
Even though bocephus probably hates me, i'll go ahead and defend his point of view.
3 more months of Jund vs RWU Delver vs RG Tron....yay
3 months ago, people were saying that about storm, but the meta long changed. Not to mention there's quite a few decks in developing competitive that are one reprint away from becoming high tier. M13 alone is having GW deck builders go crazy with rancor and ajani 3.0.
I am anticipating a new threat to the list and a new color combo of either delver or tron 3 months from now.
Not a single mention of modern's state in the announcement. This is GOOD news, as it shows the format is stable in wotc's eyes and is still a potential candidate format for the next season of unbannings.
That's a kind of inflammatory response, don't you think? Just because he's a nay-sayer doesn't mean his input isn't valid. It's nice to see the other side of the argument rather than the threat turn into a circle jerk of "uban this" -> "i agree!"
Even though bocephus probably hates me, i'll go ahead and defend his point of view.
Naw, dont hate anyone. I understand that what some want others wont. I understand that how I want Modern, may not be how you want it or the next guy wants it. I also see that Wotc needs a defined power cut off to make formats not bleed into each other. Modern cant be as weak as Standard, nor as strong as Legacy at the same time, which is tricky. I think the biggest problem is people want Legacy type power without the cards to keep that power in check. I also see a lot of people mad because their favorite card (which in most cases is broken for the format) is banned and they want to play it/them. I think the format is in a real good place only being a year old. It took almost 2 for Legacy to get as diverse and balanced as Modern did in a year.
@HTime, I have the same right you do to post. Just because you dont like my views on the format, doesnt mean squat. I dont see alot of people agreeing on how the format should be.
Reprints are way more important for the format than unbans though.
Thats not entirely true either. There are about a dozen Modern legal cards from the older sets that COULD use a reprint simply for price reasons, but finding what you need isnt really that hard for Modern. Now at the price you want to pay is a different story. Personally I dont have a problem with $20-$30 shocklands or $3-$5 staple uncommons.
Thats not entirely true either. There are about a dozen Modern legal cards from the older sets that COULD use a reprint simply for price reasons, but finding what you need isnt really that hard for Modern. Now at the price you want to pay is a different story. Personally I dont have a problem with $20-$30 shocklands or $3-$5 staple uncommons.
Rancor was an example of what I meant by reprint (Not sure about Nyzzeh). Though price is an initial obstacle for drawing interest into the format, I can see true competitive players biting the bullet and saving up for $100 goyfs (doesn't mean I would though)
Wow, wild nacatl still on the list... what a shame. It really is the one thing on there that doesn't have any real argument or justification for it being on there in my opinion.
Wow, wild nacatl still on the list... what a shame. It really is the one thing on there that doesn't have any real argument or justification for it being on there in my opinion.
As the most recent card to be added to the list, I think they gave plenty of justification on how it was meta warping.
To me this sounds like wizards were too scared of breaking something before the magic world cup.
It could be, but IMO thats the time to do it, pros don't care about playing with broken stuff, thats how they found out about Mystical Tutor in Legacy. People only played it when there was big money on the line. Give the pros a chance to break it. Then you know and can fix it before the next PTQ season.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
As the most recent card to be added to the list, I think they gave plenty of justification on how it was meta warping.
Meh I know due to reading about why it was banned, I just disagree that a 3/3 for 1 on turn 1 that you have to essentially pay at least 3 life for before you get to use it to it's full potential just doesn't feel that overpowered to me.
I mean it's a vanilla 3/3 in a format with tarmogoyf, is it seriously: "oh no it will ruin the meta!" good? I definitely wasn't expecting them to take anything off because I'm sure they want to let people test the water before they shake things up, but I just hate to see nactl on there.
I just hope that my bias of liking zoo decks in general isn't blinding me to the possibility that nactl is "too good" for the format.
As the most recent card to be added to the list, I think they gave plenty of justification on how it was meta warping.
It could be, but IMO thats the time to do it, pros don't care about playing with broken stuff, thats how they found out about Mystical Tutor in Legacy. People only played it when there was big money on the line. Give the pros a chance to break it. Then you know and can fix it before the next PTQ season.
I think you can make the "Wild Nacatl is meta warping" argument if another deck took its place when it got banned. But nothing ever did. There went from a Tier 1 aggro deck to no aggro deck at all. Nacatl didn't push anything out that isn't also being pushed out by the power level of the format.
I think you can make the "Wild Nacatl is meta warping" argument if another deck took its place when it got banned. But nothing ever did. There went from a Tier 1 aggro deck to no aggro deck at all. Nacatl didn't push anything out that isn't also being pushed out by the power level of the format.
I think you can turn it around and be just as correct. Since the deck died it proves how over powered a 1 drop 3/3 is.
Also I think Wotc was upset because every time someone was interviewed that played Zoo to a big tournament, they would say they were lazy and just sleeved up Zoo. I am not saying its an easy deck to pilot but a lot of pros were saying that with Zoo. No ingenuity came from laziness.
Screw Wild Nacatal. If non-tempo control strategies can't have Jace or SotM then aggro can't have Wild Nacatal. It's not like Affinity isn't a deck either, there's still a strong aggro deck in the format.
And before you go "BUT DELVER IS A CARD" no, stfu. Delver doesn't always flip. Nacatal was annoying as hell and it was the card I most wanted banned after the initial list along with Punishing Fire. For once I got my way and I was happy. Many others are happy.
About the list; I would have liked to see something come off but thank God nothing went on. We'll see in September I guess.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
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This is a continuation of the discussion in this thread:
[Discussion] Current Modern Ban List (12/20 Update)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=379058
Banned List Discussion outside of this thread is Prohibited and will be Infracted!
To summarize Wizards' position, they feel they have banned cards that give decks the ability to either win or be in a controlling position by turn 3.
These cards fall in that list:
Ancient Den
Blazing Shoal
Chrome Mox
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Seat of the Synod
Sword of the Meek
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
The other main category of cards exist because they make decks too consistant/reliable and thus hamper the deck diversity of the metagame. I think these cards are the best candidates for an unbanning.
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Cloudpost
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Ponder
Preordain
Punishing Fire
Rite of Flame
Stoneforge Mystic
Umezawa's Jitte
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Then there are cards which wizards currently feels were mistakes or were never really tested in eternal formats.
Skullclamp
Sensei's Divining Top
I realize Jace/Stoneforge could possibly be here depending on your point of view.
The following are links to WotC's in-depth explanations as to why cards have gotten banned since the beginning of the format:
Community Cup Announcement with the Initial Ban List.
1st Banned List change with explanations
2nd Banned List change with explanations
3rd Banned List change with explanations
Please keep discussion related to the cards and leave personal attacks at home. Thanks!
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
i guess my wallet thanks me for not having to buy bitterblossoms... gotta get duals and fetches now. haha
Now, if they had done something stupid like ban Snapcaster or Delver or Fetchlands, then I would have worked up some outrage, but since they just kept everything at the conservative status quo I cannot seem to muster it.
BAN, uh...Mimic Vat...yea, that's the one. It makes 5c Zubera way too consistent and powerful.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Exactly, as no reasonable conclusion is ever reached and it just leaves most people with a bad taste in their mouths.
Even though it may not seem like it sometimes, I do have faith in this format. I know they'll unban something from the current list of cards someday and some people will be happy, some will be frustrated and think its the end of the format, as people will do. We just have to adapt to Wizard's pace of doing things.
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
The format seems healthy, and there are a large number of competitive decks with nothing overwhelmingly good.
No bruha, I play with whats available. Thats what I have been trying to tell people for over a year. Just play with what is available and stop worrying about what is on the B&R list. The format is never going to be perfect for everyone playing it.
That's a kind of inflammatory response, don't you think? Just because he's a nay-sayer doesn't mean his input isn't valid. It's nice to see the other side of the argument rather than the threat turn into a circle jerk of "uban this" -> "i agree!"
Even though bocephus probably hates me, i'll go ahead and defend his point of view.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
Blog about the Custom Cube
3 months ago, people were saying that about storm, but the meta long changed. Not to mention there's quite a few decks in developing competitive that are one reprint away from becoming high tier. M13 alone is having GW deck builders go crazy with rancor and ajani 3.0.
I am anticipating a new threat to the list and a new color combo of either delver or tron 3 months from now.
Not a single mention of modern's state in the announcement. This is GOOD news, as it shows the format is stable in wotc's eyes and is still a potential candidate format for the next season of unbannings.
Modern: Twin URW Wilted Abzan WBG
Legacy: Stax WWW Maverick WBG
Cockatrice ID: Voltigasm
Naw, dont hate anyone. I understand that what some want others wont. I understand that how I want Modern, may not be how you want it or the next guy wants it. I also see that Wotc needs a defined power cut off to make formats not bleed into each other. Modern cant be as weak as Standard, nor as strong as Legacy at the same time, which is tricky. I think the biggest problem is people want Legacy type power without the cards to keep that power in check. I also see a lot of people mad because their favorite card (which in most cases is broken for the format) is banned and they want to play it/them. I think the format is in a real good place only being a year old. It took almost 2 for Legacy to get as diverse and balanced as Modern did in a year.
@HTime, I have the same right you do to post. Just because you dont like my views on the format, doesnt mean squat. I dont see alot of people agreeing on how the format should be.
Thats not entirely true either. There are about a dozen Modern legal cards from the older sets that COULD use a reprint simply for price reasons, but finding what you need isnt really that hard for Modern. Now at the price you want to pay is a different story. Personally I dont have a problem with $20-$30 shocklands or $3-$5 staple uncommons.
Rancor was an example of what I meant by reprint (Not sure about Nyzzeh). Though price is an initial obstacle for drawing interest into the format, I can see true competitive players biting the bullet and saving up for $100 goyfs (doesn't mean I would though)
Modern: Twin URW Wilted Abzan WBG
Legacy: Stax WWW Maverick WBG
Cockatrice ID: Voltigasm
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
As the most recent card to be added to the list, I think they gave plenty of justification on how it was meta warping.
It could be, but IMO thats the time to do it, pros don't care about playing with broken stuff, thats how they found out about Mystical Tutor in Legacy. People only played it when there was big money on the line. Give the pros a chance to break it. Then you know and can fix it before the next PTQ season.
Meh I know due to reading about why it was banned, I just disagree that a 3/3 for 1 on turn 1 that you have to essentially pay at least 3 life for before you get to use it to it's full potential just doesn't feel that overpowered to me.
I mean it's a vanilla 3/3 in a format with tarmogoyf, is it seriously: "oh no it will ruin the meta!" good? I definitely wasn't expecting them to take anything off because I'm sure they want to let people test the water before they shake things up, but I just hate to see nactl on there.
I just hope that my bias of liking zoo decks in general isn't blinding me to the possibility that nactl is "too good" for the format.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
I think you can make the "Wild Nacatl is meta warping" argument if another deck took its place when it got banned. But nothing ever did. There went from a Tier 1 aggro deck to no aggro deck at all. Nacatl didn't push anything out that isn't also being pushed out by the power level of the format.
I think you can turn it around and be just as correct. Since the deck died it proves how over powered a 1 drop 3/3 is.
Also I think Wotc was upset because every time someone was interviewed that played Zoo to a big tournament, they would say they were lazy and just sleeved up Zoo. I am not saying its an easy deck to pilot but a lot of pros were saying that with Zoo. No ingenuity came from laziness.
And before you go "BUT DELVER IS A CARD" no, stfu. Delver doesn't always flip. Nacatal was annoying as hell and it was the card I most wanted banned after the initial list along with Punishing Fire. For once I got my way and I was happy. Many others are happy.
About the list; I would have liked to see something come off but thank God nothing went on. We'll see in September I guess.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible