Banned List Discussion outside of this thread is Prohibited and will be Infracted!
To summarize Wizards' position, they feel they have banned cards that give decks the ability to either win or be in a controlling position by turn 3.
These cards fall in that list:
Ancient Den
Blazing Shoal
Chrome Mox
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Seat of the Synod
Sword of the Meek
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
The other main category of cards exist because they make decks too consistant/reliable and thus hamper the deck diversity of the metagame. I think these cards are the best candidates for an unbanning.
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Cloudpost
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Ponder
Preordain
Punishing Fire
Rite of Flame
Stoneforge Mystic
Umezawa's Jitte
Then there are cards which wizards currently feels were mistakes or were never really tested in eternal formats.
Skullclamp
Sensei's Divining Top
I realize Jace/Stoneforge could possibly be here depending on your point of view.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I've been on board with everybody else saying that Ancestral Visions would get the unban. Certainly interesting, I'm looking forward to shaking everything up.
I'm excited, too! It's not Maverick but it's still something completely new and interesting to experience!
This is most certainly a deck I want to try. I never got the chance to because it's heyday in Extended was long before my time as a competitive player.
Nacatls' banning had nothing to do with power though. Nacalt was banned for stifling deck creativity, Tarmogoyf doesn't stifle creativity in the slightest.
I disagree. You are missing the point though-the fact that it does to most forms of removal is irrelevant.
In regards to burn spells, sure there are only a couple that can kill Goyf, however, Burn has the advantage of hitting the opponent for damage and can easily race "Goyf decks" in a dedicated shell like RDW.
Lol, how is this a response to my point about Goyf dodging most of the removal in the format? Non-white decks have a big problem dealing with Goyf unless they pack insane amounts of removal (Jund is the only deck that can do this).
I believe that Kitchen Finks features in many more decks than Goyf and is just as difficult to remove, therefore, I'd make the argument that Finks is warping the format more than Goyf is. The only reason people call for Goyf to get banned is because they don't own any and buying copies at his current price is outrageous, not because he's "broken" or "warping" the format, because he isn't.
Kitchen Finks is way weaker than Goyf and is only there to gain life against decks like American Delver. As fr Goyf being too expensive, that is a good reason to ban him as far as I am concerned.
Most people will know Valakut, but just so it's easier to reference
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Land
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle enters the battlefield tapped.
Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, you may have Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle deal 3 damage to target creature or player. T: Add R to your mana pool.
Go buy your Scapeshifts and Prismatic Omens before they quintuple in price on theorymongering and speculation!.
Honestly, with Storm combo winning on T4 with a substantial degree of consistency, I'm not all that certain that Valakut is good enough to be played. Rather, I think it'll just make the broken combo decks like U/R Pyromancer even more absurd. R/G Tron will be better since it can power out Karn before a Valakut deck can get to 4GG and exile a land or two.
I'm curious to see if the Molten Pinnacle is good enough for a combo-driven format. Sadly, I think it's going to be just like old Standard, where all it does is push fair decks like Zoo and even Pod to some extent out of the format, and will usher in a new era of combo and control dominance.
Then again, with control being so weak in Modern, maybe that's not a bad thing.
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It has the resilience of Exarch Twin--nay, it's more resilient than Exarch Twin. By the time you combo off, you're probably automatically immune to Mana Leak, so they need targeted discard or better counterspells to stop you. This deck topdecks like a beast compared to Exarch Twin, and Cryptic Command gets chased off hard by Spell Pierce or Dispel.
Wow. Did not expect Valakut. It'll be interesting to see where it falls in the metagame. Time to get brewing!
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
so what does this mean for my promo vals? it certainly makes me want to jump into modern. maybe I'll get to use my primetimes when they rotate too (since the edh banning)...
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-Dave Schreiner
Check out my weekly EDH column on General Damage Control, "Three Cards Deep," every Friday evening.
more uninteractive and inevitable combo? interesting choice. but it does enable an entirely new deck.
well, what i got from this is that they're going to slowly remove stuff from the list, as detailed in his explanation. it just sucks that we have to wait 3+ months at a time..
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
It has the resilience of Exarch Twin--nay, it's more resilient than Exarch Twin. By the time you combo off, you're probably automatically immune to Mana Leak, so they need targeted discard or better counterspells to stop you. This deck topdecks like a beast compared to Exarch Twin, and Cryptic Command gets chased off hard by Spell Pierce or Dispel.
as soon as i saw the picture i was like HO-LY ****!
and so begins the thread about Scapeshift-Kut in modern! lol
how fast will it take for it to move to proven? A week? A month?
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
I bought like 60 of them, I don't want to face them
This is why if Modern ever really takes off as a format, its prices will also skyrocket.
(I bought a playset of Valakut and one of Scapeshift for my own use.)
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
Old Extended Scapeshift looked like the list in this article. I personally whipped up a slimmer version with Bolts instead of board wipes, no Cryptic Commands, less permission, Explores, fewer creatures, and an Augur of Bolas, and it's tested pretty well.
Old Extended Scapeshift looked like the list in this article. I personally whipped up a slimmer version with Bolts instead of board wipes, no Cryptic Commands, less permission, Explores, fewer creatures, and an Augur of Bolas, and it's tested pretty well.
Looks good. How about a little share action with ol' feathers?
I disagree. You are missing the point though-the fact that it does to most forms of removal is irrelevant.
Lol, how is this a response to my point about Goyf dodging most of the removal in the format? Non-white decks have a big problem dealing with Goyf unless they pack insane amounts of removal (Jund is the only deck that can do this).
Kitchen Finks is way weaker than Goyf and is only there to gain life against decks like American Delver. As fr Goyf being too expensive, that is a good reason to ban him as far as I am concerned.
If they ban Goyf, because it is expensive, I would personally drive a tractor over WoTC, so everyone else who owns Goyf.
And Kitchen Finks is way way way more powerful than Goyf, Goyf is just a beatstick, while every green based deck run 4 Finks, FOUR, it is also the most played card on modern.
Also, Goyf only dodges Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix, everydeck that packs removal, packs something to kill Goyf and Pod doesnt have a problem with Goyf, it is just blocked all day easily
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Standard
Boring...
Modern WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
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This is a continuation of the discussion in this thread:
[Discussion] Current Modern Ban List (6/20 Update)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=425383
Banned List Discussion outside of this thread is Prohibited and will be Infracted!
To summarize Wizards' position, they feel they have banned cards that give decks the ability to either win or be in a controlling position by turn 3.
These cards fall in that list:
Ancient Den
Blazing Shoal
Chrome Mox
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Seat of the Synod
Sword of the Meek
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
The other main category of cards exist because they make decks too consistant/reliable and thus hamper the deck diversity of the metagame. I think these cards are the best candidates for an unbanning.
Ancestral Vision
Bitterblossom
Cloudpost
Green Sun's Zenith
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Ponder
Preordain
Punishing Fire
Rite of Flame
Stoneforge Mystic
Umezawa's Jitte
Then there are cards which wizards currently feels were mistakes or were never really tested in eternal formats.
Skullclamp
Sensei's Divining Top
I realize Jace/Stoneforge could possibly be here depending on your point of view.
The following are links to WotC's in-depth explanations as to why cards have gotten banned since the beginning of the format:
Community Cup Announcement with the Initial Ban List.
1st Banned List change with explanations
2nd Banned List change with explanations
3rd Banned List change with explanations
Removal of Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Please keep discussion related to the cards and leave personal attacks at home. Thanks!
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/09202012a
I personally am super excited.
Sorry, didn't put it up with first post. Too excited!
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Merged with ban list discussion. t_C
CRAP.
A completely new deck to play with! I am so excited!
I've been on board with everybody else saying that Ancestral Visions would get the unban. Certainly interesting, I'm looking forward to shaking everything up.
This is most certainly a deck I want to try. I never got the chance to because it's heyday in Extended was long before my time as a competitive player.
I am excite! I am excite!
I disagree. You are missing the point though-the fact that it does to most forms of removal is irrelevant.
Lol, how is this a response to my point about Goyf dodging most of the removal in the format? Non-white decks have a big problem dealing with Goyf unless they pack insane amounts of removal (Jund is the only deck that can do this).
Kitchen Finks is way weaker than Goyf and is only there to gain life against decks like American Delver. As fr Goyf being too expensive, that is a good reason to ban him as far as I am concerned.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Land
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle enters the battlefield tapped.
Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, you may have Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle deal 3 damage to target creature or player.
T: Add R to your mana pool.
EDIT: Holy crap, Valakut is only $1 on tcgplayer.
Honestly, with Storm combo winning on T4 with a substantial degree of consistency, I'm not all that certain that Valakut is good enough to be played. Rather, I think it'll just make the broken combo decks like U/R Pyromancer even more absurd. R/G Tron will be better since it can power out Karn before a Valakut deck can get to 4GG and exile a land or two.
I'm curious to see if the Molten Pinnacle is good enough for a combo-driven format. Sadly, I think it's going to be just like old Standard, where all it does is push fair decks like Zoo and even Pod to some extent out of the format, and will usher in a new era of combo and control dominance.
Then again, with control being so weak in Modern, maybe that's not a bad thing.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
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Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Something with Loam maybe?
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It has the resilience of Exarch Twin--nay, it's more resilient than Exarch Twin. By the time you combo off, you're probably automatically immune to Mana Leak, so they need targeted discard or better counterspells to stop you. This deck topdecks like a beast compared to Exarch Twin, and Cryptic Command gets chased off hard by Spell Pierce or Dispel.
How will decks combat the menace? 4 Thoughtseize 2 IoK? Blood Moon? Realm Razer? A Tunnel Ignus in every Twin Pod sideboard? Counterflux? Tons of Vendilion Cliques?
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Check out my weekly EDH column on General Damage Control, "Three Cards Deep," every Friday evening.
@MdaveCS on Twitter
well, what i got from this is that they're going to slowly remove stuff from the list, as detailed in his explanation. it just sucks that we have to wait 3+ months at a time..
I wonder if the old Valakut ramp style deck from Zendikar standard will come back in some form, with Primeval and the like. It would be interesting.
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Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU
But what will it look like? Will it have blue? Prismatic Omen? Primeval Titan? If it runs the Titan, is Kessig Wolf Run and Inkmoth Nexus a possibility as a back-up plan?
and so begins the thread about Scapeshift-Kut in modern! lol
how fast will it take for it to move to proven? A week? A month?
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
This is why if Modern ever really takes off as a format, its prices will also skyrocket.
(I bought a playset of Valakut and one of Scapeshift for my own use.)
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingOld Extended Scapeshift looked like the list in this article. I personally whipped up a slimmer version with Bolts instead of board wipes, no Cryptic Commands, less permission, Explores, fewer creatures, and an Augur of Bolas, and it's tested pretty well.
Looks good. How about a little share action with ol' feathers?
If they ban Goyf, because it is expensive, I would personally drive a tractor over WoTC, so everyone else who owns Goyf.
And Kitchen Finks is way way way more powerful than Goyf, Goyf is just a beatstick, while every green based deck run 4 Finks, FOUR, it is also the most played card on modern.
Also, Goyf only dodges Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix, everydeck that packs removal, packs something to kill Goyf and Pod doesnt have a problem with Goyf, it is just blocked all day easily
Boring...
Modern
WGBJunk:Feel the Rhinos WGB
RWUAmerican Taxes RWU
EDH
XKarn and the Living StaxX RETIRED
GWURoon of The Hidden RealmGWU