several of us have tested it against all of the good decks that we can come up with it and tends to hose those. Emrakul on turn 4 is broke, and you can't make them discard land cards with any of the spot discard spells. You essentially need hymn to turach into stupor to stand a chance with discard.
Key phrase there is "good decks we can come up with". Like I said, wait and see what pros end up sleeving up. It's very possible there are competitive decks you've missed completely in your testing. Of course it's also very possible that 12-post is by far the top deck but like I said, saying it right now with no Modern Pro Tours as evidence doesn't hold much water.
several of us have tested it against all of the good decks that we can come up with it and tends to hose those. Emrakul on turn 4 is broke, and you can't make them discard land cards with any of the spot discard spells. You essentially need hymn to turach into stupor to stand a chance with discard.
Turn 4 emrakul has a very very very very x100 low probability of happening. While other combo decks have a considerably high chance of comboing on turn 3. 1 match against hive mind went like this: I start on the draw, and he comboes me on his turn 4. Then, when I'm on the play, he comboes on his turn 3. Nice skills playing ritual ritual ritual hive mind pact.
Anyways, I you really wanted to play a cheap eternal format, you would have done like me, and knowing the rumors, had bought all the cards before the announcement. Heck, the cards were cheap even after the community cup when the modern format was already determined.
Turn 4 emrakul has a very very very very x100 low probability of happening. While other combo decks have a considerably high chance of comboing on turn 3. 1 match against hive mind went like this: I start on the draw, and he comboes me on his turn 4. Then, when I'm on the play, he comboes on his turn 3. Nice skills playing ritual ritual ritual hive mind pact.
Not really turn 4 emrakul is easy if your running 4 titan and a few gsz. As for other combo decks one counterspell or thoughtseize can easily slow them down to a crawl. This just isn't true against 12post. They are a hard matchup for 12post, but any control deck I can make will just roll them where the same isn't true for 12post as I'm posting up about a 15 win % against the deck.
asdf
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Interesting thing to note: In Zendikar, they are printing the rather mediocre M10 lands instead of shocks, so shocks will only rise in price for the next ~10 months. Buy shocks now.
This is really bad advice and the type of misinformation that is really driving the high prices of modern. There is a near 0% chance that almost all modern format staples(esp shocklands) don't start seeing reprints in about 9-10months. The whole reason WoTC created modern comes from the public outcry about the reserve list. It would be utterly absurd to create a new eternal format - the reserve list and then have zero or a small amount of reprints. The prices of modern staples and cards that may become staples currently is inflated by people that actually think prices can go no where but up... which makes me wanna . Heck WoTC already announced FTV: Modern staples is coming out as the next FTV. Aaron Forsythe called it the nuts. So, we know its good and not some theme like angels and since after relics they closed the foil loophole on reserve list cards being printed... it basicly has to be modern staples since anything that is "the nuts" and not on the RL is a modern staple.
My suggestion. Pick a modern deck or 2 buy all the cards that you need for it... and sell everything else and stay away from them with a 10 foot pole in trades.
@ slipknot i actually have barely lost any matchs to 12 post with any deck ive tested in modern im something like 30-2 against the many U and G builds. The G builds are to easy to disrupt and the U builds are just slower with less disruption then other U based combo decks in the format. I fully expect alot of people to play 12post regardless of that fact that it is not very good. For whatever that is worth.
Edit: one exception to the sell now suggestion is gifts ungiven, best card is the format in my estimation and i would suggest picking up a few even if you don't plan on using them so long as they remains below 25$
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Wizards said that they were going to start re-printing Modern "staples". So 1 card down XXX to go.
In FTV so more like 5-15 and modern really only has about 30 really over priced a cards. If they do something like FTV:lands you could see something like 10 shocks, vault, vesuva, grove, ruins and flagstones. That would go a really long way in keeping the secondary market in check. But really it is only a matter of time before we see precons with modern staple cards or some chronicles/Master edition type set(s).
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
AiR is viable. Affinty if viable. Those are two aggro decks that will cost you less than 200 irl and probably less than 100 online. You only need 4-5 shocklands now with the M12 allied and INN enemy duals. They are less than 2 bucks each and I'm sure the INN ones will be around $5 each mainly cause of block. The only card that you can't find a cheaper replacement for is Goyf. Anyone who has been playing Magic for more than 3 years should have bought them anyway knowing that card is used in every format and will only go up over time. That card could get banned in Modern and still be over $70.
If you can't spend 25 on a Breeding Pool, you should have either thought about this when they were 10 or play the UG Filter land.
In FTV so more like 5-15 and modern really only has about 30 really over priced a cards. If they do something like FTV:lands you could see something like 10 shocks, vault, vesuva, grove, ruins and flagstones. That would go a really long way in keeping the secondary market in check. But really it is only a matter of time before we see precons with modern staple cards or some chronicles/Master edition type set(s).
Considering the block after Innistrad is set in Ravnica, and the fact that they've explicitly said they're open to reprinting staples to prevent Modern from becoming Legacy again, it's not so hard to believe that they'll re-print the shocklands, or at least something similar to them. What's more of a staple than the mana base?
Considering their previous From the Vault cards, I wouldn't expect too much of From the Vault "Modern Staples". I hope to be wrong, though.
Mox diamond, Aether vial, Memory jar, SoBaM, Sol ring, Goblin lacky, berserk, Gifts, Mystical tutor, Tinker, necro ... just saying. FTV exiled/relics both had alot of $$$ cards. Considering those are the only 2 W/O a cute theme welll... you get the point.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Since it's almost assured that they will not be reprinting the ravnica shock lands in INN (they confirmed enemy check duals instead, although Dark Ascension is an entirely different matter) their prices will continue to rise as demand increases barring some announcement about reprinting. Ergo, sooner rather than later, the people who bought in early on the anticipation that modern would take off will be rewarded significantly. They took the risk; they should reap the reward.
Wizards said that they were going to start re-printing Modern "staples". So 1 card down XXX to go.
On another note, I can't wait for the bubble to burst, and people to lose their butts off playing the "market".
On another note, people that 'play the market' will, most likely, dump their staples before reprinting becomes a problem. Buy low, sell high. The really lucky ones will be able to turn their modern staples into a competitive legacy deck or even a piece of power thus securing their investment.
Since it's almost assured that they will not be reprinting the ravnica shock lands in INN (they confirmed enemy check duals instead, although Dark Ascension is an entirely different matter) their prices will continue to rise as demand increases barring some announcement about reprinting. Ergo, sooner rather than later, the people who bought in early on the anticipation that modern would take off will be rewarded significantly. They took the risk; they should reap the reward.
1) OFC we are not getting shocks in INN or the whole block for the matter...
2) The prices of shocks have allready started to drop back down. Hallowed fountain was BIN on ebay 40-45$ about a week ago, now it is down to 30-35$ a 10$ price drop in lthat quickly is a lot.
3) Normal rules from supply and demand do not apply here. Demand is not driving these prices speculation is.
On another note, people that 'play the market' will, most likely, dump their staples before reprinting becomes a problem. Buy low, sell high. The really lucky ones will be able to turn their modern staples into a competitive legacy deck or even a piece of power thus securing their investment.
Agreed, but it really has nothing to do with the topic.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
I dont think they will reprint the Shock lands at all. They will go up with demand and people would like them to reprint them because of that, but the same goes with the legacy duel lands. They will only go up as time passes, but we all know the chances of them actually reprinting the original duels are extremely slim to nonexistent.
You don't think shocks are getting reprinted? Aaron Forsythe explicitly stated on twitter that modern staples would get reprinted/the shocklands WILL get reprinted whether you want them reprinted or not. Because lands are almost always the biggest staple of a given format.
Yeah next years FTV could be modern staples but I doubt it. Even if it was just modern staples in there, it wouldn't affect the price unless they mass produced the next FTV, which is unlikely.
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The block after Innistrad returns to Ravnica - shocklands will get reprinted within a year. It's also the same block that featured Tarmogoyf and Bob... just dreaming.
actually tarmogoyf was in future sight aka timespiral block.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I have no reason to trust what wizards says might happen in the future. Oh you were preparing for a pro tour? Let's change the format 3 weeks in advance. You don't have the cards? Too bad.
I can easily see them saying, we thought we might reprint somethings, but then decided it wasn't a good idea. Remember folks, this is Wizards of the Coast we're talking about.
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Just because they said they are reprinting staples doesnt mean they will reprint the shock lands. That is an extremely vague statement that could range from any number of cards.
Just because they said they are reprinting staples doesnt mean they will reprint the shock lands. That is an extremely vague statement that could range from any number of cards.
The next block is a supposed to be a return to rav. It makes all the sense in the world to reprint the most popular lands ever.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I have no reason to trust what wizards says might happen in the future. Oh you were preparing for a pro tour? Let's change the format 3 weeks in advance. You don't have the cards? Too bad.
I can easily see them saying, we thought we might reprint somethings, but then decided it wasn't a good idea. Remember folks, this is Wizards of the Coast we're talking about.
almost every attendee of the protour has access to any of the $$$ cards. SOMEONE will lend them the big cards in question. Modern gave collecting a purpose again, and I for one, am happy to see cards I sold because they were "rotating out" go up in price.
I mean hell, when I built my fae deck, I sold my 4 bobs for 50 bucks! FOR THE SET!
almost every attendee of the protour has access to any of the $$$ cards. SOMEONE will lend them the big cards in question. Modern gave collecting a purpose again, and I for one, am happy to see cards I sold because they were "rotating out" go up in price.
I mean hell, when I built my fae deck, I sold my 4 bobs for 50 bucks! FOR THE SET!
THat's nothing. When FS came out I bought 7 Goyfs for $4 each. I sold them just before Lorwyn came out for $16 each....
But yeah, I think we will see Shocks, Bob and Goyf at the very least reprinted either over the course of Innistrad or in the return to Ravnica. Hell, Bob at least is a prime core set material, so he might jsut be in M13.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
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Key phrase there is "good decks we can come up with". Like I said, wait and see what pros end up sleeving up. It's very possible there are competitive decks you've missed completely in your testing. Of course it's also very possible that 12-post is by far the top deck but like I said, saying it right now with no Modern Pro Tours as evidence doesn't hold much water.
Turn 4 emrakul has a very very very very x100 low probability of happening. While other combo decks have a considerably high chance of comboing on turn 3. 1 match against hive mind went like this: I start on the draw, and he comboes me on his turn 4. Then, when I'm on the play, he comboes on his turn 3. Nice skills playing ritual ritual ritual hive mind pact.
Anyways, I you really wanted to play a cheap eternal format, you would have done like me, and knowing the rumors, had bought all the cards before the announcement. Heck, the cards were cheap even after the community cup when the modern format was already determined.
asdf
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
This is really bad advice and the type of misinformation that is really driving the high prices of modern. There is a near 0% chance that almost all modern format staples(esp shocklands) don't start seeing reprints in about 9-10months. The whole reason WoTC created modern comes from the public outcry about the reserve list. It would be utterly absurd to create a new eternal format - the reserve list and then have zero or a small amount of reprints. The prices of modern staples and cards that may become staples currently is inflated by people that actually think prices can go no where but up... which makes me wanna . Heck WoTC already announced FTV: Modern staples is coming out as the next FTV. Aaron Forsythe called it the nuts. So, we know its good and not some theme like angels and since after relics they closed the foil loophole on reserve list cards being printed... it basicly has to be modern staples since anything that is "the nuts" and not on the RL is a modern staple.
My suggestion. Pick a modern deck or 2 buy all the cards that you need for it... and sell everything else and stay away from them with a 10 foot pole in trades.
@ slipknot i actually have barely lost any matchs to 12 post with any deck ive tested in modern im something like 30-2 against the many U and G builds. The G builds are to easy to disrupt and the U builds are just slower with less disruption then other U based combo decks in the format. I fully expect alot of people to play 12post regardless of that fact that it is not very good. For whatever that is worth.
Edit: one exception to the sell now suggestion is gifts ungiven, best card is the format in my estimation and i would suggest picking up a few even if you don't plan on using them so long as they remains below 25$
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
On another note, I can't wait for the bubble to burst, and people to lose their butts off playing the "market".
In FTV so more like 5-15 and modern really only has about 30 really over priced a cards. If they do something like FTV:lands you could see something like 10 shocks, vault, vesuva, grove, ruins and flagstones. That would go a really long way in keeping the secondary market in check. But really it is only a matter of time before we see precons with modern staple cards or some chronicles/Master edition type set(s).
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
I'd also be surprised to see any modern staples before six months from now. And even that's pushing it.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
If you can't spend 25 on a Breeding Pool, you should have either thought about this when they were 10 or play the UG Filter land.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I would be curious to know how these price hikes are effecting the stores turnover.
I'm not going to complain.
Ravnica duals are for the moment still affordable where I live. So I'm going to embrace this format and not whine for a change.
Just the fact that you can play aggro / combo and control in the same format for once should be enough for everyone to rejoice.
Combo players auctually have a selection of decks to play when has that ever happened in standard
Insert witty phrase here
Considering the block after Innistrad is set in Ravnica, and the fact that they've explicitly said they're open to reprinting staples to prevent Modern from becoming Legacy again, it's not so hard to believe that they'll re-print the shocklands, or at least something similar to them. What's more of a staple than the mana base?
Mox diamond, Aether vial, Memory jar, SoBaM, Sol ring, Goblin lacky, berserk, Gifts, Mystical tutor, Tinker, necro ... just saying. FTV exiled/relics both had alot of $$$ cards. Considering those are the only 2 W/O a cute theme welll... you get the point.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
On another note, people that 'play the market' will, most likely, dump their staples before reprinting becomes a problem. Buy low, sell high. The really lucky ones will be able to turn their modern staples into a competitive legacy deck or even a piece of power thus securing their investment.
1) OFC we are not getting shocks in INN or the whole block for the matter...
2) The prices of shocks have allready started to drop back down. Hallowed fountain was BIN on ebay 40-45$ about a week ago, now it is down to 30-35$ a 10$ price drop in lthat quickly is a lot.
3) Normal rules from supply and demand do not apply here. Demand is not driving these prices speculation is.
Agreed, but it really has nothing to do with the topic.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Afro Dave, @st4rwind on Twitter
Level 2 Judge
Legacy Decks:
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- 10 Land Stompy G
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Yeah next years FTV could be modern staples but I doubt it. Even if it was just modern staples in there, it wouldn't affect the price unless they mass produced the next FTV, which is unlikely.
Currently Playing:
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actually tarmogoyf was in future sight aka timespiral block.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I can easily see them saying, we thought we might reprint somethings, but then decided it wasn't a good idea. Remember folks, this is Wizards of the Coast we're talking about.
The next block is a supposed to be a return to rav. It makes all the sense in the world to reprint the most popular lands ever.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
almost every attendee of the protour has access to any of the $$$ cards. SOMEONE will lend them the big cards in question. Modern gave collecting a purpose again, and I for one, am happy to see cards I sold because they were "rotating out" go up in price.
I mean hell, when I built my fae deck, I sold my 4 bobs for 50 bucks! FOR THE SET!
THat's nothing. When FS came out I bought 7 Goyfs for $4 each. I sold them just before Lorwyn came out for $16 each....
But yeah, I think we will see Shocks, Bob and Goyf at the very least reprinted either over the course of Innistrad or in the return to Ravnica. Hell, Bob at least is a prime core set material, so he might jsut be in M13.
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“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP