You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
To be fair, it is a good thing that they didn't give anything to BGx in Theros since it was apparently too good anyways (at least it would have ended the arguing over whether it was too good). Still, it has the least number of Modern playable cards of any fully Modern legal block, even if you only count the first 2 sets of each block. They could have given Modern something. Instead, the main thing that the Theros block did was make Merfolk a little better, weaken Pod, and give BGx another option to fall back on when DRS got banned.
I mean I dunno if it would have broken those decks. It was a cool card. I think it has more potential in legacy, but I'm not on R&D.
Persephone
1BG
Legendary Enchantment Creature—Spirit
0/2
Lands are indestructible
At the beginning of your upkeep, return a land card from your graveyard to the battlefield. If you can't, sacrifice CARDNAME.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if CARDNAME is in your graveyard, you may sacrifice two lands. If you do, return CARDNAME from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Anyway yeah. I think most players (myself included) thought that designing with modern in mind meant sets would have larger impacts. I think wizards is focusing on not breaking anything.
How would that have even been playable in BGx? It has such a glaring anti-synergy with DRS. Even if it was playable in BGx, it would have been very fringe. I understand Wizards's fears. After all, Goblin Electromancer/Epic Experiment, Faith's Reward, and Deathrite Shaman/Abrupt Decay caused 4 bans between them. But they don't have to make what is arguably the weakest block overall since Mercadian Masques. (at least Kamigawa had several Legacy staples)
Well, I hate to say it, but due to the steady price spikes over the last year, I'm becoming one of those people who is now cashing out of the format (never thought I'd say this honestly, as I absolutely love the game). I just can't justify not jumping on the chance to make 2-3 times over what I've spent on the game (several thousand spent over the years). When it comes to having pieces of cardboard vs either paying off the car loan or putting that money into a more reliable long term investment/retirement fund, the latter just seems the better choice. If prices hadn't jumped to their current level, it would probably be a different story I'm sure.
I'm sure I'll be back eventually, and perhaps MTGO will be in the future.
Well, I hate to say it, but due to the steady price spikes over the last year, I'm becoming one of those people who is now cashing out of the format (never thought I'd say this honestly, as I absolutely love the game). I just can't justify not jumping on the chance to make 2-3 times over what I've spent on the game (several thousand spent over the years). When it comes to having pieces of cardboard vs either paying off the car loan or putting that money into a more reliable long term investment/retirement fund, the latter just seems the better choice. If prices hadn't jumped to their current level, it would probably be a different story I'm sure.
I'm sure I'll be back eventually, and perhaps MTGO will be in the future.
I am thinking the same my friend. Except I am still keeping my Standard and Modern deck, both of which are more budget decks, just to I can still play with people. But besides that, I am just selling off anything I can.
Is Twilight Mire $30 for any real reason? Or is this just more speculator crap...
It's becoming a 1-4 of in BG Obliterator decks, which play quite a few multip G and B casting cost cards. The deck has seen some screen time on stream and put up some good results.
So I think it is quite obvious that the prices of modern cards have been inflated substantially and it has to come to an end at some point or people are going to stop playing. Just like in economics everything has an opportunity cost and when the opportunity cost gets to big you have to forgo something. Food vs. magic cards, housing vs. magic cards, family vs. magic cards, unless you are one of the people that the only thing you do is play magic live alone and make a lot of money that may be feasable, but for the good majority of players that I know they simply cannot afford to dish out $800-$1000 on a deck. A comment I hear a lot is oh well why don't they just trade the cards they already have. This statement to me is making a rather large assumption that everyone in the world has magic cards to trade. Not everyone started collecting/playing in 1994...I really think that people need to stop feeding the demand for over inflated prices on what is essentially a piece of cardboard albeit a very damn special piece of cardboard but cardboard and ink none the less. I as anyone else loves the game of magic and I also like to collect all the cards from sets when I get extra cash, but does it really matter to me if the price of the cards declines significantly? Hell no because any sensible person would realize that magic cards should not be used as investment seriously people. Stop treating magic cards like an investment if you want to investment read a book about the stock market, invest in mutual funds, open a TFSA, or invest into your RRSP. I think the magic community as a whole would be much better off if no card was worth more than say 20-50 bucks. With most decks in a format costing 200-400 dollars and making it easier for everyone to play and gain access to cards. MTG was designed as a game to played and enjoyed by everyone. Now the argument that arises when I say that is well you don't have to play expensive formats why don't you just play with friends at a kitchen table with pictures of the cards from the internet. Well because I am an intelligent magic player I can duel it out with the best and I don't feel like being limited to my kitchen table. All in all people just need to realize that they are wasting money on something that is not going to hold it's value for ever and someday every card minus the few really good ones are going to all be worth less than ten dollars and all that collecting and market manipulation and hording was all for nothing anyway. It is inevitable if you want an investment that is safe and isn't going anywhere save your money as money and put it into some form of interest baring account. - my 2cents
Frodooftheshire, you have managed put all of my thoughts regarding this topic in a coherent, wrtten form. I am literally speechless right now. And I hope it will come sooner than later
Frodooftheshire, you have managed put all of my thoughts regarding this topic in a coherent, wrtten form. I am literally speechless right now. And I hope it will come sooner than later
Glad I could be of service I hope more people agree We are the consumers if we don't buy the cardboard at rediculous prices the prices will drop and everyone can play and there will be magic for everyone!
So I think it is quite obvious that the prices of modern cards have been inflated substantially and it has to come to an end at some point or people are going to stop playing. Just like in economics everything has an opportunity cost and when the opportunity cost gets to big you have to forgo something. Food vs. magic cards, housing vs. magic cards, family vs. magic cards, unless you are one of the people that the only thing you do is play magic live alone and make a lot of money that may be feasable, but for the good majority of players that I know they simply cannot afford to dish out $800-$1000 on a deck. A comment I hear a lot is oh well why don't they just trade the cards they already have. This statement to me is making a rather large assumption that everyone in the world has magic cards to trade. Not everyone started collecting/playing in 1994...I really think that people need to stop feeding the demand for over inflated prices on what is essentially a piece of cardboard albeit a very damn special piece of cardboard but cardboard and ink none the less. I as anyone else loves the game of magic and I also like to collect all the cards from sets when I get extra cash, but does it really matter to me if the price of the cards declines significantly? Hell no because any sensible person would realize that magic cards should not be used as investment seriously people. Stop treating magic cards like an investment if you want to investment read a book about the stock market, invest in mutual funds, open a TFSA, or invest into your RRSP. I think the magic community as a whole would be much better off if no card was worth more than say 20-50 bucks. With most decks in a format costing 200-400 dollars and making it easier for everyone to play and gain access to cards. MTG was designed as a game to played and enjoyed by everyone. Now the argument that arises when I say that is well you don't have to play expensive formats why don't you just play with friends at a kitchen table with pictures of the cards from the internet. Well because I am an intelligent magic player I can duel it out with the best and I don't feel like being limited to my kitchen table. All in all people just need to realize that they are wasting money on something that is not going to hold it's value for ever and someday every card minus the few really good ones are going to all be worth less than ten dollars and all that collecting and market manipulation and hording was all for nothing anyway. It is inevitable if you want an investment that is safe and isn't going anywhere save your money as money and put it into some form of interest baring account. - my 2cents
Youre so wrong it made me pee a little.
We just had the biggest constructed tournament of all time and the format was modern. People are never going to stop buying and building modern decks. There are 12 people at my LGS who recently took the plunge and bought fetches at their current prices. Why? Because they wanted to and are smart with their money.
You don't need to have played for long. Ive been playing since Innistrad (casually til Gatecrash) and I had a small collection at the time. Slowly pumping 20-50 dollars when you get it into your collection by buying staples cheap and wisely speculating you can have a top tier deck. I bought Snaps just 2 months ago at 15 dollars each. Now im sitting on a set for myself with spares to trade/lend out. Why? Because any player expecting to play snapcasters and knew about the game would know they would rise. Same with fetches. Same with Thalia. Same with shocks. Same with Abrupt Decay. Buying what you need, a little at a time, when the time is right, will yield reward. Ive invested maybe 170 dollars into singles/packs EVER. Now im sitting on a 1200+ collection because of smart trading and smart investments.
People will never stop feeding the demand. It simply wont ever happen. The demand will be here until the day magic ends and that wont happen for a long time. Given how prices are now, most players would JUMP at the chance for cheaper staples. So the second cards start to come down they will be snatched up so fast you wont have time to change your pants.
People will never stop buying, so your argument that people need to stop buying/selling and speculating is just laughable.
Its impossible for everyone to have a competitive deck in whatever format they want and not spend a lot of money on it. If every player could have what they wanted and play in big events and be a "pro player" then there wouldn't be enough cards to go around. There simply wouldn't. Which is why supply/demand make the market how it is. Its how every market is. Fact of the matter is, if you want to play a top deck in a non rotating format and a deck that can beat most other decks, then you need to be ready to spend some large amount of money. Simple. You don't just jump into a basketball court with no previous experience other than playing 2K14 and being fit. You cant just buy any car in the world, you need to have money to drive that new sports car. Not everyone can have their ideal deck/hobby without expecting to pay for it.
Modern was designed for players who already had a collection of cards to build from, coming from multiple seasons of standard. Arguing that it wasn't is just asinine. If anyone has played magic for over a year or 2 now will have a better collection than those who started 5 months ago. Modern is never going to be as cheap as it once was. That boat set sail and it aint going back unless a Chronicles 2.0 happens and happens SOON.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active Modern Decks
U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
So I think it is quite obvious that the prices of modern cards have been inflated substantially and it has to come to an end at some point or people are going to stop playing. Just like in economics everything has an opportunity cost and when the opportunity cost gets to big you have to forgo something. Food vs. magic cards, housing vs. magic cards, family vs. magic cards, unless you are one of the people that the only thing you do is play magic live alone and make a lot of money that may be feasable, but for the good majority of players that I know they simply cannot afford to dish out $800-$1000 on a deck. A comment I hear a lot is oh well why don't they just trade the cards they already have. This statement to me is making a rather large assumption that everyone in the world has magic cards to trade. Not everyone started collecting/playing in 1994...I really think that people need to stop feeding the demand for over inflated prices on what is essentially a piece of cardboard albeit a very damn special piece of cardboard but cardboard and ink none the less. I as anyone else loves the game of magic and I also like to collect all the cards from sets when I get extra cash, but does it really matter to me if the price of the cards declines significantly? Hell no because any sensible person would realize that magic cards should not be used as investment seriously people. Stop treating magic cards like an investment if you want to investment read a book about the stock market, invest in mutual funds, open a TFSA, or invest into your RRSP. I think the magic community as a whole would be much better off if no card was worth more than say 20-50 bucks. With most decks in a format costing 200-400 dollars and making it easier for everyone to play and gain access to cards. MTG was designed as a game to played and enjoyed by everyone. Now the argument that arises when I say that is well you don't have to play expensive formats why don't you just play with friends at a kitchen table with pictures of the cards from the internet. Well because I am an intelligent magic player I can duel it out with the best and I don't feel like being limited to my kitchen table. All in all people just need to realize that they are wasting money on something that is not going to hold it's value for ever and someday every card minus the few really good ones are going to all be worth less than ten dollars and all that collecting and market manipulation and hording was all for nothing anyway. It is inevitable if you want an investment that is safe and isn't going anywhere save your money as money and put it into some form of interest baring account. - my 2cents
Youre so wrong it made me pee a little.
We just had the biggest constructed tournament of all time and the format was modern. People are never going to stop buying and building modern decks. There are 12 people at my LGS who recently took the plunge and bought fetches at their current prices. Why? Because they wanted to and are smart with their money.
You don't need to have played for long. Ive been playing since Innistrad (casually til Gatecrash) and I had a small collection at the time. Slowly pumping 20-50 dollars when you get it into your collection by buying staples cheap and wisely speculating you can have a top tier deck. I bought Snaps just 2 months ago at 15 dollars each. Now im sitting on a set for myself with spares to trade/lend out. Why? Because any player expecting to play snapcasters and knew about the game would know they would rise. Same with fetches. Same with Thalia. Same with shocks. Same with Abrupt Decay. Buying what you need, a little at a time, when the time is right, will yield reward. Ive invested maybe 170 dollars into singles/packs EVER. Now im sitting on a 1200+ collection because of smart trading and smart investments.
People will never stop feeding the demand. It simply wont ever happen. The demand will be here until the day magic ends and that wont happen for a long time. Given how prices are now, most players would JUMP at the chance for cheaper staples. So the second cards start to come down they will be snatched up so fast you wont have time to change your pants.
People will never stop buying, so your argument that people need to stop buying/selling and speculating is just laughable.
Its impossible for everyone to have a competitive deck in whatever format they want and not spend a lot of money on it. If every player could have what they wanted and play in big events and be a "pro player" then there wouldn't be enough cards to go around. There simply wouldn't. Which is why supply/demand make the market how it is. Its how every market is. Fact of the matter is, if you want to play a top deck in a non rotating format and a deck that can beat most other decks, then you need to be ready to spend some large amount of money. Simple. You don't just jump into a basketball court with no previous experience other than playing 2K14 and being fit. You cant just buy any car in the world, you need to have money to drive that new sports car. Not everyone can have their ideal deck/hobby without expecting to pay for it.
Modern was designed for players who already had a collection of cards to build from, coming from multiple seasons of standard. Arguing that it wasn't is just asinine. If anyone has played magic for over a year or 2 now will have a better collection than those who started 5 months ago. Modern is never going to be as cheap as it once was. That boat set sail and it aint going back unless a Chronicles 2.0 happens and happens SOON.
Ok so some things here made me pee so you say that your friends just bought fetches at their current prices assuming say you bought 4x misty rainforest that is $400 and that is not being smart with your money if you know anything about spending money.
Secondly my point was that magic cards are not an investable asset and will someday ultimately be worthless in comparison to what it is now and money is never going to be worthless barring a mass world crysis in which most of us will probably be dead anyway so it doesn't really matter.
Third there If supply is increased significantly price has to go down it is impossible for it not to it is simply economics shift your supply curve right price goes down quantity demand increases price decreases. The price wouldn't go down would be if demand kept on shifting to the right as well(increasing)which is impossible after a certain point because demand for magic cards is not infinite nor is it even close. If you want to denounce that logic than go take a course in economics.
Fourth - basketball players don't have to pay a whole bunch of money to become pro they just have to be really good and excel, not the same in magic.
Fifth - Modern was not designed for any specific playgroup nor should any format be designed specifically for certain people. All formats are open to all players.
sixth - the fact that you said people will never stop feeding demand makes me laugh do you really think people will buy $400 a piece fetch lands? maybe some but very few a change in price causes a movement along the demand curve making a decrease in QD(quantity demanded) and an increase in the price.
So I think it is quite obvious that the prices of modern cards have been inflated substantially and it has to come to an end at some point or people are going to stop playing. Just like in economics everything has an opportunity cost and when the opportunity cost gets to big you have to forgo something. Food vs. magic cards, housing vs. magic cards, family vs. magic cards, unless you are one of the people that the only thing you do is play magic live alone and make a lot of money that may be feasable, but for the good majority of players that I know they simply cannot afford to dish out $800-$1000 on a deck. A comment I hear a lot is oh well why don't they just trade the cards they already have. This statement to me is making a rather large assumption that everyone in the world has magic cards to trade. Not everyone started collecting/playing in 1994...I really think that people need to stop feeding the demand for over inflated prices on what is essentially a piece of cardboard albeit a very damn special piece of cardboard but cardboard and ink none the less. I as anyone else loves the game of magic and I also like to collect all the cards from sets when I get extra cash, but does it really matter to me if the price of the cards declines significantly? Hell no because any sensible person would realize that magic cards should not be used as investment seriously people. Stop treating magic cards like an investment if you want to investment read a book about the stock market, invest in mutual funds, open a TFSA, or invest into your RRSP. I think the magic community as a whole would be much better off if no card was worth more than say 20-50 bucks. With most decks in a format costing 200-400 dollars and making it easier for everyone to play and gain access to cards. MTG was designed as a game to played and enjoyed by everyone. Now the argument that arises when I say that is well you don't have to play expensive formats why don't you just play with friends at a kitchen table with pictures of the cards from the internet. Well because I am an intelligent magic player I can duel it out with the best and I don't feel like being limited to my kitchen table. All in all people just need to realize that they are wasting money on something that is not going to hold it's value for ever and someday every card minus the few really good ones are going to all be worth less than ten dollars and all that collecting and market manipulation and hording was all for nothing anyway. It is inevitable if you want an investment that is safe and isn't going anywhere save your money as money and put it into some form of interest baring account. - my 2cents
Youre so wrong it made me pee a little.
And you are sure that you don't have serious medical problems?
We just had the biggest constructed tournament of all time and the format was modern. People are never going to stop buying and building modern decks. There are 12 people at my LGS who recently took the plunge and bought fetches at their current prices. Why? Because they wanted to and are smart with their money.
There will always be someone who is willing to pay large amounts of money to play. There were iPhones with Flappy Bird pre-installed that were selling for $90,000 on ebay. However, as the cost of the product rises, the amount of people who are able to pay that price decreases rapidly. That is basic economics. Less people will be able to enter Modern if prices rise. All that we lose from unlimited Standard reprints are the investments of people who care more for their own money than for the format. And frankly, they deserve to lose their investment. Modern has no Reserved List. There is no guarantee of price security in Modern. If people want to invest in Magic Cards, they should invest in Reserved List cards, not cards that could be reprinted at any time.
You don't need to have played for long. Ive been playing since Innistrad (casually til Gatecrash) and I had a small collection at the time. Slowly pumping 20-50 dollars when you get it into your collection by buying staples cheap and wisely speculating you can have a top tier deck. I bought Snaps just 2 months ago at 15 dollars each. Now im sitting on a set for myself with spares to trade/lend out. Why? Because any player expecting to play snapcasters and knew about the game would know they would rise. Same with fetches. Same with Thalia. Same with shocks. Same with Abrupt Decay. Buying what you need, a little at a time, when the time is right, will yield reward. Ive invested maybe 170 dollars into singles/packs EVER. Now im sitting on a 1200+ collection because of smart trading and smart investments.
The average person can't do that. I am not sure how many people you had to cheat in your trades, but I am sure that it is a lot.
People will never stop feeding the demand. It simply wont ever happen. The demand will be here until the day magic ends and that wont happen for a long time. Given how prices are now, most players would JUMP at the chance for cheaper staples. So the second cards start to come down they will be snatched up so fast you wont have time to change your pants.
But if supply is increased enough, it will cancel out demand. Standard sets are printed in unlimited amounts. Cards reprinted in Standard sets that aren't used in literally every Standard deck a la Mutavault will fall like Thoughtseize. The supply will simply be too high for the demand to outpace it.
People will never stop buying, so your argument that people need to stop buying/selling and speculating is just laughable.
This is true.
Its impossible for everyone to have a competitive deck in whatever format they want and not spend a lot of money on it. If every player could have what they wanted and play in big events and be a "pro player" then there wouldn't be enough cards to go around. There simply wouldn't. Which is why supply/demand make the market how it is. Its how every market is. Fact of the matter is, if you want to play a top deck in a non rotating format and a deck that can beat most other decks, then you need to be ready to spend some large amount of money. Simple. You don't just jump into a basketball court with no previous experience other than playing 2K14 and being fit. You cant just buy any car in the world, you need to have money to drive that new sports car. Not everyone can have their ideal deck/hobby without expecting to pay for it.
You can play basketball without spending $1500 on it. Also, how is someone without a large amount of money enter the format? If the prices are rising faster than one can save, there is no real way to play Modern without first playing Limited, which is a boring format that does not have many of the complex interactions that a higher format has, has an incredibly low power-level, and doesn't even give you complete control over what your deck will be, or play Standard, which is at its most boring in years. That is not how it should be.
Modern was designed for players who already had a collection of cards to build from, coming from multiple seasons of standard. Arguing that it wasn't is just asinine. If anyone has played magic for over a year or 2 now will have a better collection than those who started 5 months ago. Modern is never going to be as cheap as it once was. That boat set sail and it aint going back unless a Chronicles 2.0 happens and happens SOON.
Well maybe a Chronicles 2.0 should happen then. Modern was created to be ACCESSIBLE. What part about that do you not understand? What if we don't want to deal with the piece of ***** that is Standard right now? What if we want to play Magic? Should we go and play Commander at our side tables? Or should we be able to play an actual format?
Guys, Modern is not an entry level format. Wizards did not design it to be for someone without any collection to just jump in and play. Standard, Block and Limited are made for that. If anyone can just jump into Modern, what do you think will happen to Standard. They made Modern as an incentive to Standard players that have the tendency to jump to Eternal formats. They made it so that cards rotating out of Standard should still have significant value so that Standard players can continue playing either by selling the rotating cards and buying another Standard deck or not selling their cards and jumping into Modern.
Guys, Modern is not an entry level format. Wizards did not design it to be for someone without any collection to just jump in and play. Standard, Block and Limited are made for that. If anyone can just jump into Modern, what do you think will happen to Standard. They made Modern as an incentive to Standard players that have the tendency to jump to Eternal formats. They made it so that cards rotating out of Standard should still have significant value so that Standard players can continue playing either by selling the rotating cards and buying another Standard deck or not selling their cards and jumping into Modern.
The problem is, to make starting in Standard, Block, or Limited a reasonable option, they actually have to make those formats interesting and enjoyable. Limited isn't for everyone and they have failed massively with Standard and Block this time. What are players supposed to do? Play in the most boring and least powerful Standard in years? Especially when several archetypes have been moved out of Standard and people who like to play those archetypes can't play them? Also, starting in lower formats doesn't even work anymore. Very few people are willing to trade fetchlands and similar cards for Standard cards, unless if it is a horribly uneven trade.
Fifth - Modern was not designed for any specific playgroup nor should any format be designed specifically for certain people. All formats are open to all players.
Where did you get that notion? Transportation is open to all people, but you either have time or money. If you have time, you can walk. If you have money you can ride a train. If you have lots of money you can buy a car. If you want to play Modern now, you need to buy a whole deck and play. If you don't have money, you can wait and use some effort. That's what a lot of existing Modern players here have, time, effort and dedication. Of course some have the money and can just buy a deck outright. For me and the others here like Bocephus, MemoryLapse, etc. We paid for our cards using some money, but we also used some sweat and time investments. Buy the cheap staples now!!! There are Shocks and Thoughtseize everywhere. Why do people always wanted to buy the expensive ones at a cheap price when there are lots of cheap ones lying around waiting to be picked-up?
Well maybe a Chronicles 2.0 should happen then. Modern was created to be ACCESSIBLE. What part about that do you not understand? What if we don't want to deal with the piece of ***** that is Standard right now? What if we want to play Magic? Should we go and play Commander at our side tables? Or should we be able to play an actual format?
You can wait until Wizards stops supporting Standard. But until then, all decisions always point to Standard's welfare since it's their bread and butter format. You'll get your reprint if you can wait. Like what I always say, you can either wait or shell out some cash.
Fifth - Modern was not designed for any specific playgroup nor should any format be designed specifically for certain people. All formats are open to all players.
Where did you get that notion? Transportation is open to all people, but you either have time or money. If you have time, you can walk. If you have money you can ride a train. If you have lots of money you can buy a car. If you want to play Modern now, you need to buy a whole deck and play. If you don't have money, you can wait and use some effort. That's what a lot of existing Modern players here have, time, effort and dedication. Of course some have the money and can just buy a deck outright. For me and the others here like Bocephus, MemoryLapse, etc. We paid for our cards using some money, but we also used some sweat and time investments. Buy the cheap staples now!!! There are Shocks and Thoughtseize everywhere. Why do people always wanted to buy the expensive ones at a cheap price when there are lots of cheap ones lying around waiting to be picked-up?
The bottom line is, prices have gotten absurd. You can get most things you need for Zoo within reason except goyfs and fetchlands. A playset of each will cost $1,005.08 on TCG mid. Over $1,000 for 8 pieces of cardboard. If you think these prices are sustainable, then you are just downright delusional. There is no other way to put it, simple as that.
Getting back to the staples topic as this discussion is tiresome. I think a decent comparison to mutavault that hasn't been mentioned is inkmoth nexus. It's played in similar amounts in modern and has kinda the same crossformat appeal. The difference is mutavault was printed in m14 that coincided with modern masters so it wasn't opened much but I don't see it being much above 15. It's probably going to end up like cavern of souls but maybe a bit below that.
Agreed. Both Inkmoth and Cavern of Souls are in sets that are no longer in print, and yet Inkmoth is $11.24 and Cavern of Souls is $19.56 on tcg mid. I don't see Mutavault going much higher than that.
Well maybe a Chronicles 2.0 should happen then. Modern was created to be ACCESSIBLE. What part about that do you not understand? What if we don't want to deal with the piece of ***** that is Standard right now? What if we want to play Magic? Should we go and play Commander at our side tables? Or should we be able to play an actual format?
You can wait until Wizards stops supporting Standard. But until then, all decisions always point to Standard's welfare since it's their bread and butter format. You'll get your reprint if you can wait. Like what I always say, you can either wait or shell out some cash.
If Wizards wants people to be happy with Standard, they need to make sure that it is better than it is now. Right now, it is a horrible format. Even Standard players agree that it is not nearly as good as many recent Standards. Why should people have to invest hundreds of dollars into a format that they don't even like and then lose a ton of that many at rotation?
If Wizards wants people to be happy with Standard, they need to make sure that it is better than it is now. Right now, it is a horrible format. Even Standard players agree that it is not nearly as good as many recent Standards. Why should people have to invest hundreds of dollars into a format that they don't even like and then lose a ton of that many at rotation?
But...Mono Black is viable again.
I actually really abhor Standard. I haven't played it now (other than bigger competitive REL tournaments) for a month and a half. Ever since my FNM has had 28 Modern players to 36 Standard players and the numbers have been close, I have switched to a format that I actually enjoy. Before, I avoided other formats because the prize support was so small because of the number of players being smaller. Now, I don't have to do that. Modern is not perfect by any means and there are many things that I don't agree with. Still, it brings some joy to me. I have been reacquainting myself with UR Storm, an archetype I haven't played since UR Storm in Extended. You can't play anything similar to this in Standard.
However, I don't see a big problem with Standard being boring to some people. Newer players that are not filthy rich will have to play the format and many of them don't know better; they actually like Standard because it is "safer." Honestly, if I hadn't played for the past umpteen years and just started Magic now, I would be infinitely frustrated about not being able to play other formats. There's no way that I'm paying $100 or anything close for a fetchland. I actually waited patiently in Standard for them to drop from $18-10 to purchase more of them. Because I held on to my cards, I've done very well and actually sold some unnecessary cards in order to get some cool stuff. Newer players don't have this option. They either come up with the $700+ or don't play Modern. Or they play a suboptimal deck and get crushed every night. That's it.
Private Mod Note
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
If Wizards wants people to be happy with Standard, they need to make sure that it is better than it is now. Right now, it is a horrible format. Even Standard players agree that it is not nearly as good as many recent Standards. Why should people have to invest hundreds of dollars into a format that they don't even like and then lose a ton of that many at rotation?
But...Mono Black is viable again.
I actually really abhor Standard. I haven't played it now (other than bigger competitive REL tournaments) for a month and a half. Ever since my FNM has had 28 Modern players to 36 Standard players and the numbers have been close, I have switched to a format that I actually enjoy. Before, I avoided other formats because the prize support was so small because of the number of players being smaller. Now, I don't have to do that. Modern is not perfect by any means and there are many things that I don't agree with. Still, it brings some joy to me. I have been reacquainting myself with UR Storm, an archetype I haven't played since UR Storm in Extended. You can't play anything similar to this in Standard.
However, I don't see a big problem with Standard being boring to some people. Newer players that are not filthy rich will have to play the format and many of them don't know better; they actually like Standard because it is "safer." Honestly, if I hadn't played for the past umpteen years and just started Magic now, I would be infinitely frustrated about not being able to play other formats. There's no way that I'm paying $100 or anything close for a fetchland. I actually waited patiently in Standard for them to drop from $18-10 to purchase more of them. Because I held on to my cards, I've done very well and actually sold some unnecessary cards in order to get some cool stuff. Newer players don't have this option. They either come up with the $700+ or don't play Modern. Or they play a suboptimal deck and get crushed every night. That's it.
Yup. Exactly what I was talking about. At least in Modern there are still viable cheap decks like RDW, Mono White Hatebears, UR Storm (except for scalding tarn). Standard players don't have the luxury to wait, we already have that in Modern. Asking for a cheap deck to crush everything in the Modern meta is asking too much. Even in Standard you have to pay premium to play the Tier 1 decks.
Fifth - Modern was not designed for any specific playgroup nor should any format be designed specifically for certain people. All formats are open to all players.
Where did you get that notion? Transportation is open to all people, but you either have time or money. If you have time, you can walk. If you have money you can ride a train. If you have lots of money you can buy a car. If you want to play Modern now, you need to buy a whole deck and play. If you don't have money, you can wait and use some effort. That's what a lot of existing Modern players here have, time, effort and dedication. Of course some have the money and can just buy a deck outright. For me and the others here like Bocephus, MemoryLapse, etc. We paid for our cards using some money, but we also used some sweat and time investments. Buy the cheap staples now!!! There are Shocks and Thoughtseize everywhere. Why do people always wanted to buy the expensive ones at a cheap price when there are lots of cheap ones lying around waiting to be picked-up?
The bottom line is, prices have gotten absurd. You can get most things you need for Zoo within reason except goyfs and fetchlands. A playset of each will cost $1,005.08 on TCG mid. Over $1,000 for 8 pieces of cardboard. If you think these prices are sustainable, then you are just downright delusional. There is no other way to put it, simple as that.
That's why I'm not someone who would recommend buying the expensive staples. If you have the money then by all means, buy them. But if you don't have, don't complain and do something about it. You can wait or start by acquiring tradeables now. Buy 5 sets of Thoughtseize, and at least a set of all the shocklands (better if 2 sets each). If people don't have the money and is also lazy by not doing something to get what they want will not be spoodfed by anyone.
Well maybe a Chronicles 2.0 should happen then. Modern was created to be ACCESSIBLE. What part about that do you not understand? What if we don't want to deal with the piece of ***** that is Standard right now? What if we want to play Magic? Should we go and play Commander at our side tables? Or should we be able to play an actual format?
You can wait until Wizards stops supporting Standard. But until then, all decisions always point to Standard's welfare since it's their bread and butter format. You'll get your reprint if you can wait. Like what I always say, you can either wait or shell out some cash.
If Wizards wants people to be happy with Standard, they need to make sure that it is better than it is now. Right now, it is a horrible format. Even Standard players agree that it is not nearly as good as many recent Standards. Why should people have to invest hundreds of dollars into a format that they don't even like and then lose a ton of that many at rotation?
They are not forcing anyone because they don't really need to.
Well maybe a Chronicles 2.0 should happen then. Modern was created to be ACCESSIBLE. What part about that do you not understand? What if we don't want to deal with the piece of ***** that is Standard right now? What if we want to play Magic? Should we go and play Commander at our side tables? Or should we be able to play an actual format?
You can wait until Wizards stops supporting Standard. But until then, all decisions always point to Standard's welfare since it's their bread and butter format. You'll get your reprint if you can wait. Like what I always say, you can either wait or shell out some cash.
"If Wizards wants people to be happy with Standard, they need to make sure that it is better than it is now. Right now, it is a horrible format.
I quote Shaheenn Soorani on this:
I believe Standard is a healthy format even with the existence of Pack Rat and Mono-Black Devotion's dominance. There are so many different types of decks to play, and the usual people will complain that Standard isn't fun due to this deck or that. That type of argument is always made and is the nature of a limited card selection format. If we all played Block instead of Standard for months and months, I guarantee those complaints would intensify. Standard will always be boring for players that hate seeing the same five or six decks on repeat, and my suggestion is to play cards that spice up your life and give you competitive edge against the usual suspects."
Standard is still biggest constructed format even though you think its "horrible". What's the conclusion of this? Nothing is wrong. You just think your opinion is a fact.
Yup. Exactly what I was talking about. At least in Modern there are still viable cheap decks like RDW, Mono White Hatebears, UR Storm (except for scalding tarn).
I suppose it depends on your meta, but I always find that comments like these are more often repetition of things others have said rather than reality. RDW can win in some metas with a bit more luck than usual, but it is only barely viable much of the time and for most players who have played the game longer than six months it is mind-numbingly dull to play. I am not sure what you mean by Mono White Hatebears, but as a long time Modern D&T player I can tell you that it that it is not exactly "cheap". Compared to other decks it could be considered cheap, and does not have to deal with fetch prices, but for a lot of people it is still a chunk of change. The cheapest deck that I can see maybe doing well with some room for tweaking for your meta is probably GU Infect with a budget (but still viable) manabase.
I'm not saying you're wrong that there are viable budget decks for newer players to Modern, just that I disagree with your examples.
Where I do disagree with you is your advice to buy cheap staples now if you want to play Modern. Sure, I started slowly acquired my collection over the last dozen years, and I think that it is always a good idea to look out for cards that will be on the rise in the future, but it is not an answer to the problem. Telling someone who looks at Modern and says to themselves "wow, that format looks really fun and will push my game to new levels", that the answer is to buy some cards now and maybe in two years they can actually play is a bit hollow. That is fine if the person just started playing the game, but if they have been in the game for a year or more they should be able to expect the inroads to new parts of the game to inspire more optimism. At the very least it seems like terrible business to impose that kind of effective financial waiting period in order to keep playing the game in the way the customer wants to play it.
Now, as I said I do think that there are other ways to enjoy the format in a less "all in" way, I just think that "save your pennies and come back in two years" is a terrible answer- especially if the ceiling on card values keeps increasing.
How would that have even been playable in BGx? It has such a glaring anti-synergy with DRS. Even if it was playable in BGx, it would have been very fringe. I understand Wizards's fears. After all, Goblin Electromancer/Epic Experiment, Faith's Reward, and Deathrite Shaman/Abrupt Decay caused 4 bans between them. But they don't have to make what is arguably the weakest block overall since Mercadian Masques. (at least Kamigawa had several Legacy staples)
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'm sure I'll be back eventually, and perhaps MTGO will be in the future.
I am thinking the same my friend. Except I am still keeping my Standard and Modern deck, both of which are more budget decks, just to I can still play with people. But besides that, I am just selling off anything I can.
It's becoming a 1-4 of in BG Obliterator decks, which play quite a few multip G and B casting cost cards. The deck has seen some screen time on stream and put up some good results.
Glad I could be of service I hope more people agree We are the consumers if we don't buy the cardboard at rediculous prices the prices will drop and everyone can play and there will be magic for everyone!
Youre so wrong it made me pee a little.
We just had the biggest constructed tournament of all time and the format was modern. People are never going to stop buying and building modern decks. There are 12 people at my LGS who recently took the plunge and bought fetches at their current prices. Why? Because they wanted to and are smart with their money.
You don't need to have played for long. Ive been playing since Innistrad (casually til Gatecrash) and I had a small collection at the time. Slowly pumping 20-50 dollars when you get it into your collection by buying staples cheap and wisely speculating you can have a top tier deck. I bought Snaps just 2 months ago at 15 dollars each. Now im sitting on a set for myself with spares to trade/lend out. Why? Because any player expecting to play snapcasters and knew about the game would know they would rise. Same with fetches. Same with Thalia. Same with shocks. Same with Abrupt Decay. Buying what you need, a little at a time, when the time is right, will yield reward. Ive invested maybe 170 dollars into singles/packs EVER. Now im sitting on a 1200+ collection because of smart trading and smart investments.
People will never stop feeding the demand. It simply wont ever happen. The demand will be here until the day magic ends and that wont happen for a long time. Given how prices are now, most players would JUMP at the chance for cheaper staples. So the second cards start to come down they will be snatched up so fast you wont have time to change your pants.
People will never stop buying, so your argument that people need to stop buying/selling and speculating is just laughable.
Its impossible for everyone to have a competitive deck in whatever format they want and not spend a lot of money on it. If every player could have what they wanted and play in big events and be a "pro player" then there wouldn't be enough cards to go around. There simply wouldn't. Which is why supply/demand make the market how it is. Its how every market is. Fact of the matter is, if you want to play a top deck in a non rotating format and a deck that can beat most other decks, then you need to be ready to spend some large amount of money. Simple. You don't just jump into a basketball court with no previous experience other than playing 2K14 and being fit. You cant just buy any car in the world, you need to have money to drive that new sports car. Not everyone can have their ideal deck/hobby without expecting to pay for it.
Modern was designed for players who already had a collection of cards to build from, coming from multiple seasons of standard. Arguing that it wasn't is just asinine. If anyone has played magic for over a year or 2 now will have a better collection than those who started 5 months ago. Modern is never going to be as cheap as it once was. That boat set sail and it aint going back unless a Chronicles 2.0 happens and happens SOON.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Ok so some things here made me pee so you say that your friends just bought fetches at their current prices assuming say you bought 4x misty rainforest that is $400 and that is not being smart with your money if you know anything about spending money.
Secondly my point was that magic cards are not an investable asset and will someday ultimately be worthless in comparison to what it is now and money is never going to be worthless barring a mass world crysis in which most of us will probably be dead anyway so it doesn't really matter.
Third there If supply is increased significantly price has to go down it is impossible for it not to it is simply economics shift your supply curve right price goes down quantity demand increases price decreases. The price wouldn't go down would be if demand kept on shifting to the right as well(increasing)which is impossible after a certain point because demand for magic cards is not infinite nor is it even close. If you want to denounce that logic than go take a course in economics.
Fourth - basketball players don't have to pay a whole bunch of money to become pro they just have to be really good and excel, not the same in magic.
Fifth - Modern was not designed for any specific playgroup nor should any format be designed specifically for certain people. All formats are open to all players.
sixth - the fact that you said people will never stop feeding demand makes me laugh do you really think people will buy $400 a piece fetch lands? maybe some but very few a change in price causes a movement along the demand curve making a decrease in QD(quantity demanded) and an increase in the price.
And you are sure that you don't have serious medical problems?
There will always be someone who is willing to pay large amounts of money to play. There were iPhones with Flappy Bird pre-installed that were selling for $90,000 on ebay. However, as the cost of the product rises, the amount of people who are able to pay that price decreases rapidly. That is basic economics. Less people will be able to enter Modern if prices rise. All that we lose from unlimited Standard reprints are the investments of people who care more for their own money than for the format. And frankly, they deserve to lose their investment. Modern has no Reserved List. There is no guarantee of price security in Modern. If people want to invest in Magic Cards, they should invest in Reserved List cards, not cards that could be reprinted at any time.
The average person can't do that. I am not sure how many people you had to cheat in your trades, but I am sure that it is a lot.
But if supply is increased enough, it will cancel out demand. Standard sets are printed in unlimited amounts. Cards reprinted in Standard sets that aren't used in literally every Standard deck a la Mutavault will fall like Thoughtseize. The supply will simply be too high for the demand to outpace it.
This is true.
You can play basketball without spending $1500 on it. Also, how is someone without a large amount of money enter the format? If the prices are rising faster than one can save, there is no real way to play Modern without first playing Limited, which is a boring format that does not have many of the complex interactions that a higher format has, has an incredibly low power-level, and doesn't even give you complete control over what your deck will be, or play Standard, which is at its most boring in years. That is not how it should be.
Well maybe a Chronicles 2.0 should happen then. Modern was created to be ACCESSIBLE. What part about that do you not understand? What if we don't want to deal with the piece of ***** that is Standard right now? What if we want to play Magic? Should we go and play Commander at our side tables? Or should we be able to play an actual format?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
The problem is, to make starting in Standard, Block, or Limited a reasonable option, they actually have to make those formats interesting and enjoyable. Limited isn't for everyone and they have failed massively with Standard and Block this time. What are players supposed to do? Play in the most boring and least powerful Standard in years? Especially when several archetypes have been moved out of Standard and people who like to play those archetypes can't play them? Also, starting in lower formats doesn't even work anymore. Very few people are willing to trade fetchlands and similar cards for Standard cards, unless if it is a horribly uneven trade.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Where did you get that notion? Transportation is open to all people, but you either have time or money. If you have time, you can walk. If you have money you can ride a train. If you have lots of money you can buy a car. If you want to play Modern now, you need to buy a whole deck and play. If you don't have money, you can wait and use some effort. That's what a lot of existing Modern players here have, time, effort and dedication. Of course some have the money and can just buy a deck outright. For me and the others here like Bocephus, MemoryLapse, etc. We paid for our cards using some money, but we also used some sweat and time investments. Buy the cheap staples now!!! There are Shocks and Thoughtseize everywhere. Why do people always wanted to buy the expensive ones at a cheap price when there are lots of cheap ones lying around waiting to be picked-up?
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
You can wait until Wizards stops supporting Standard. But until then, all decisions always point to Standard's welfare since it's their bread and butter format. You'll get your reprint if you can wait. Like what I always say, you can either wait or shell out some cash.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
The bottom line is, prices have gotten absurd. You can get most things you need for Zoo within reason except goyfs and fetchlands. A playset of each will cost $1,005.08 on TCG mid. Over $1,000 for 8 pieces of cardboard. If you think these prices are sustainable, then you are just downright delusional. There is no other way to put it, simple as that.
Agreed. Both Inkmoth and Cavern of Souls are in sets that are no longer in print, and yet Inkmoth is $11.24 and Cavern of Souls is $19.56 on tcg mid. I don't see Mutavault going much higher than that.
If Wizards wants people to be happy with Standard, they need to make sure that it is better than it is now. Right now, it is a horrible format. Even Standard players agree that it is not nearly as good as many recent Standards. Why should people have to invest hundreds of dollars into a format that they don't even like and then lose a ton of that many at rotation?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
But...Mono Black is viable again.
I actually really abhor Standard. I haven't played it now (other than bigger competitive REL tournaments) for a month and a half. Ever since my FNM has had 28 Modern players to 36 Standard players and the numbers have been close, I have switched to a format that I actually enjoy. Before, I avoided other formats because the prize support was so small because of the number of players being smaller. Now, I don't have to do that. Modern is not perfect by any means and there are many things that I don't agree with. Still, it brings some joy to me. I have been reacquainting myself with UR Storm, an archetype I haven't played since UR Storm in Extended. You can't play anything similar to this in Standard.
However, I don't see a big problem with Standard being boring to some people. Newer players that are not filthy rich will have to play the format and many of them don't know better; they actually like Standard because it is "safer." Honestly, if I hadn't played for the past umpteen years and just started Magic now, I would be infinitely frustrated about not being able to play other formats. There's no way that I'm paying $100 or anything close for a fetchland. I actually waited patiently in Standard for them to drop from $18-10 to purchase more of them. Because I held on to my cards, I've done very well and actually sold some unnecessary cards in order to get some cool stuff. Newer players don't have this option. They either come up with the $700+ or don't play Modern. Or they play a suboptimal deck and get crushed every night. That's it.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yup. Exactly what I was talking about. At least in Modern there are still viable cheap decks like RDW, Mono White Hatebears, UR Storm (except for scalding tarn). Standard players don't have the luxury to wait, we already have that in Modern. Asking for a cheap deck to crush everything in the Modern meta is asking too much. Even in Standard you have to pay premium to play the Tier 1 decks.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
That's why I'm not someone who would recommend buying the expensive staples. If you have the money then by all means, buy them. But if you don't have, don't complain and do something about it. You can wait or start by acquiring tradeables now. Buy 5 sets of Thoughtseize, and at least a set of all the shocklands (better if 2 sets each). If people don't have the money and is also lazy by not doing something to get what they want will not be spoodfed by anyone.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
They are not forcing anyone because they don't really need to.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
I quote Shaheenn Soorani on this:
I believe Standard is a healthy format even with the existence of Pack Rat and Mono-Black Devotion's dominance. There are so many different types of decks to play, and the usual people will complain that Standard isn't fun due to this deck or that. That type of argument is always made and is the nature of a limited card selection format. If we all played Block instead of Standard for months and months, I guarantee those complaints would intensify. Standard will always be boring for players that hate seeing the same five or six decks on repeat, and my suggestion is to play cards that spice up your life and give you competitive edge against the usual suspects."
Standard is still biggest constructed format even though you think its "horrible". What's the conclusion of this? Nothing is wrong. You just think your opinion is a fact.
I'm not saying you're wrong that there are viable budget decks for newer players to Modern, just that I disagree with your examples.
Where I do disagree with you is your advice to buy cheap staples now if you want to play Modern. Sure, I started slowly acquired my collection over the last dozen years, and I think that it is always a good idea to look out for cards that will be on the rise in the future, but it is not an answer to the problem. Telling someone who looks at Modern and says to themselves "wow, that format looks really fun and will push my game to new levels", that the answer is to buy some cards now and maybe in two years they can actually play is a bit hollow. That is fine if the person just started playing the game, but if they have been in the game for a year or more they should be able to expect the inroads to new parts of the game to inspire more optimism. At the very least it seems like terrible business to impose that kind of effective financial waiting period in order to keep playing the game in the way the customer wants to play it.
Now, as I said I do think that there are other ways to enjoy the format in a less "all in" way, I just think that "save your pennies and come back in two years" is a terrible answer- especially if the ceiling on card values keeps increasing.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!