MTG Salvation

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Mutavault is expensive because of standard, nothing else. Once it rotates out it will go back to being $15-20

Go back? It was $30+ before it was reprinted, and it went up after the reprint.

Everyone can hope it drops, if it does it wont be by much. I expect it to be $30-$50 after it rotates.

That was due to it being from Morningtide, which had a small print run, and that set was from 2008. When Mutavault was reprinted in Magic 2014, it initially dropped to around $15. And when everyone started cramming it in their Standard decks, that's why it went up.

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Yeah, I picked a playset up for $15 a piece shortly after the reprint. I'll add that it was at that price with people knowing it would see play in standard as well as the play it already sees in Modern and Legacy.

It'll definitely drop, people said geist, karn and mox opal wouldn't drop on rotation and they all did and all saw a good amount of play outside of standard at the time. They may be more now but they all tanked in price during rotation.

Quote from Mikeageddon

Yeah, I picked a playset up for $15 a piece shortly after the reprint. I'll add that it was at that price with people knowing it would see play in standard as well as the play it already sees in Modern and Legacy.

It'll definitely drop, people said geist, karn and mox opal wouldn't drop on rotation and they all did and all saw a good amount of play outside of standard at the time. They may be more now but they all tanked in price during rotation.

I never said they wouldnt, but its a small window from about August - October when the dip happens, then they start climbing again.

That $15 price you got was from the flood of those being held by speculators/stores. They will dry up again.

Quote from bocephus

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Quote from Valanarch

Quote from bocephus

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

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Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

For Standard cards that will see play in Modern, the best time to get them is right after rotation. They will no longer be in Standard, but there will still be supply because they were just printed in a Standard set. After a short period, the price will go back right up, often times even higher than what they were in Standard. So the best time to get Mutavault is right after rotation.

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Quote from bocephus

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

For Standard cards that will see play in Modern, the best time to get them is right after rotation. They will no longer be in Standard, but there will still be supply because they were just printed in a Standard set. After a short period, the price will go back right up, often times even higher than what they were in Standard. So the best time to get Mutavault is right after rotation.

I have said that multiple times in the thread. I am just saying after that initial dip, mutavault will climb back up.

Quote from bocephus

Quote from Mikeageddon

Yeah, I picked a playset up for $15 a piece shortly after the reprint. I'll add that it was at that price with people knowing it would see play in standard as well as the play it already sees in Modern and Legacy.

It'll definitely drop, people said geist, karn and mox opal wouldn't drop on rotation and they all did and all saw a good amount of play outside of standard at the time. They may be more now but they all tanked in price during rotation.

I never said they wouldnt, but its a small window from about August - October when the dip happens, then they start climbing again.
That $15 price you got was from the flood of those being held by speculators/stores. They will dry up again.

yes, it could have been from speculators, but here are the numbers I'm looking at. Merfolk is 3% and fae is 2% of top's in modern. Merfolk is 3% in Legacy. With Mutavault at 80% of tops in standard we're looking at a very significant amount of people who have Mutavaults and aren't going to be using them in Legacy or Modern and will no longer need them for standard.

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Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

For Standard cards that will see play in Modern, the best time to get them is right after rotation. They will no longer be in Standard, but there will still be supply because they were just printed in a Standard set. After a short period, the price will go back right up, often times even higher than what they were in Standard. So the best time to get Mutavault is right after rotation.

Not always. Liliana of the Veil and Geist of Saint Traft both raised in value after they rotated out of standard. If it sees a LOT of play outside of standard, then of course the card is going to raise after it is no longer printed. It's a case by case scenario.

Quote from bocephus

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Quote from bocephus

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

Why aren't they comparable? Is it because Mutavault is even more playable in Standard while being less playable in Modern so it backs up my point?

And I bought it at $12 when it was in standard. Case and point?

My point is that there are some cards that see a lot of play in formats beyond standard and when they are no longer printed, the supply is cut off. I'm not saying it happens to every card, I'm saying you have to be knowledgeable as to where certain cards see play in order to buy at the right time.

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Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

Why aren't they comparable? Is it because Mutavault is even more playable in Standard while being less playable in Modern so it backs up my point?

Mutavault was an eternal staple prior to being reprinted in standard. It was already established in several modern/legacy/casual/EDH decks before it saw play in current standard. Restoration Angel was a brand new card. I see no way in which these two cards are comparable.

I am so sorry that part of my example panned out differently than I experienced it. I'm not sure why you focus on nitpicking a specific example versus the general idea. You just stated that you agree it does occur to some cards. Why nitpick?

There's a pretty significant difference between what happens to mythic prices post rotation and rare prices post rotation. Comparing Geist and Liliana to Mutavault is silly. Restoration Angel is a great comparison, on the other hand.

Quote from JPoJohnson

And I bought it at $12 when it was in standard. Case and point?

My point is that there are some cards that see a lot of play in formats beyond standard and when they are no longer printed, the supply is cut off. I'm not saying it happens to every card, I'm saying you have to be knowledgeable as to where certain cards see play in order to buy at the right time.

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Quote from bocephus

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Quote from bocephus

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

Why aren't they comparable? Is it because Mutavault is even more playable in Standard while being less playable in Modern so it backs up my point?

Mutavault was an eternal staple prior to being reprinted in standard. It was already established in several modern/legacy/casual/EDH decks before it saw play in current standard. Restoration Angel was a brand new card. I see no way in which these two cards are comparable.

They are playable because they are both cards that are playable in many formats and are/were in the majority of Standard decks. As Restoration Angel is much more playable outside of Standard than Mutavault and has been printed less, then doesn't it makes sense that Mutavault will go down in price permanently since demand for it is primarily from Standard?

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Quote from bocephus

Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.

Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.

Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.

For Standard cards that will see play in Modern, the best time to get them is right after rotation. They will no longer be in Standard, but there will still be supply because they were just printed in a Standard set. After a short period, the price will go back right up, often times even higher than what they were in Standard. So the best time to get Mutavault is right after rotation.

Not always. Liliana of the Veil and Geist of Saint Traft both raised in value after they rotated out of standard. If it sees a LOT of play outside of standard, then of course the card is going to raise after it is no longer printed. It's a case by case scenario.

This is not true, I picked up Liliana at 33 during rotation and geist at 21. I remember seeing Liliana it 45 and geist at 30 before everyone started selling out, Geist ended up dropping even lower after that, but I think that was due to TNN taking it's place in legacy and a drop in popularity in modern.

You are comparing a 4CMC creature card to a colorless manland. The colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4 CMC creature card. I am talking Legacy, EDH, Modern, cube. Yes they are in Standard right now and The price is comparably the same it was before the reprinting. Yes it dipped, I understand it dipped. It will dip again at rotation, but it will climb because a colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4CMC creature card.

Lets see what the price is after rotation, after it levels off when it starts to climb.

Quote from bocephus

You are comparing a 4CMC creature card to a colorless manland. The colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4 CMC creature card. I am talking Legacy, EDH, Modern, cube. Yes they are in Standard right now and The price is comparably the same it was before the reprinting. Yes it dipped, I understand it dipped. It will dip again at rotation, but it will climb because a colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4CMC creature card.

Lets see what the price is after rotation, after it levels off when it starts to climb.

Restoration Angel-Played in Modern Death and Taxes, WUR Midrange, Azorius Midrange, WUR Twin, and WUR Control.
Mutavault-Played in Modern Merfolk, UR Delver, and Faeries.

In terms of Modern demand, Restoration Angel is much more in demand. It is played in more decks and those decks are played in large amounts compared to Merfolk, Faeries, and UR Delver.

When I think about the path that Mutavault's price will take, I look at similar cards such as Thragtusk and Resto. Same rarity. Same ubiquity while in standard. Similar use outside of standard. I expect a similar price trajectory. Could be wrong but barring merfolk and UR with spellstutter I haven't seen much use of mutavault in modern decks. Probably wont hit the $2 thragtusk lows but the shape of the price over time graph will be a whole lot closer to him than say LotV in my opinion.

wasn't resto a promo too for buying a box or something?

Quote from BatHickey

wasn't resto a promo too for buying a box or something?

I think it was a prerelease promo.

What people are failing to realize, there are other formats that mutavault is played in. There was a reason mutavault was a $30-$40 card before the reprinting. Adding it its colorless bumps it up even more. Everyone comparing it to 4CMC and 5CMC cards does not understand what a comparable card is.

Quote from bocephus

What people are failing to realize, there are other formats that mutavault is played in. There was a reason mutavault was a $30-$40 card before the reprinting. Adding it its colorless bumps it up even more. Everyone comparing it to 4CMC and 5CMC cards does not understand what a comparable card is.

It was that high because it is a Legacy playable card that was printed in a small, underprinted set and never reprinted. Why wouldn't it go down now that so many more copies are in existence after it rotates out of Standard. It is not like it is a Modern staple.

Quote from bocephus

What people are failing to realize, there are other formats that mutavault is played in. There was a reason mutavault was a $30-$40 card before the reprinting. Adding it its colorless bumps it up even more. Everyone comparing it to 4CMC and 5CMC cards does not understand what a comparable card is.

The comparison only extends as far as saying all three were recently printed in a standard legal set (large print run compared to say Morningtide) and have seen MUCH heavier play in standard than they do in modern.

A 5cmc value beater might have been amazing in standard but meh in modern because its too slow. A 2/2 changeling manland might be amazing in standard but meh in modern because there Is a dearth of competitive tribal decks and it doesn't make the cut as a 2/2 standing alone.

Not saying that mutavault doesn't have more potential than thragtusk. Just that at current demand outside of standard I can't see it holding its price. Not wishful thinking either. I don't play merfolk.

Well Theros block is a very bad modern block. Nothing in either set is going to see play in any format aside from Thoughtseize, Swan Song, Briamz, Spirit, and Thassa. If that, some of those see more legacy play than modern play. A very under powered set. It sucks.