MTG Salvation

Quote from Valanarch

Quote from iamghost

i think wizards will reprint them both to keep them in t2 and to avoid the spike fetches are having right now. they already printed scrylands to help standard manabase, probably they will find something else that will be similar to shocks (if not shocks since they are ravnica-flavored). if they don't, they will rise in value.

Shocks aren't Ravnica flavored. What is Ravnica flavored about a Steam Vent or an Overgrown Tomb?

I would say they are clearly Ravnica flavored. The names may be a bit generic but Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry, Temple Garden etc. all depict and reference places that exist on Ravnica.
Im pretty sure we wont see a Shock land that will reference to another plane ever.

Weren't the shocks keep generic on purpose? I vaguely remember reading that.

Quote from Galerion

Quote from Valanarch

Quote from iamghost

i think wizards will reprint them both to keep them in t2 and to avoid the spike fetches are having right now. they already printed scrylands to help standard manabase, probably they will find something else that will be similar to shocks (if not shocks since they are ravnica-flavored). if they don't, they will rise in value.

Shocks aren't Ravnica flavored. What is Ravnica flavored about a Steam Vent or an Overgrown Tomb?

I would say they are clearly Ravnica flavored. The names may be a bit generic but Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry, Temple Garden etc. all depict and reference places that exist on Ravnica.
Im pretty sure we wont see a Shock land that will reference to another plane ever.

They "depict" Ravnica locations because they are IN Ravnica sets. Nothing stops a reprint of them in another place.

Shocks wont hit fetch prices for YEARS. They will however hit the 20-30 dollar range. Most shocks don't see play as more than a 2 or 3 of except in 2 color decks. Fetches generally see play in set form so they are in higher demand than shocks are anyways. Not to mention everyone owns sets of shocks and it is still being opened. Maybe in 5 years shocks will be 50+ but not before then. Also wizards most likely wont reprint them any time soon. They JUST reprinted them. Asking for them to be printed AGAIN is just being greedy. "Omg they are rotating, its gonna spike! REPRINT!"

I check in on this thread a few times a day, but rarely comment. I just have one question in mind at the moment. Would it help to keep prices in check if Wizards adopted an established reprint policy for most "staple" cards? Say they guarantee there will be another print run of such cards on an X year cycle either in a Standard or MM style set. Would this help fix the market?

In terms of flavor, the shocks were thematic to Ravnica. The story follows that there are 10 guilds for all the 2-pair colour combinations. Each guild had a certain theme/role in society, which can also be seen from the cards (Boros were police, Azorius were law mages (like judges), Simic were biologists, Izzet were engineers, etc.). For those lands, they tried to encompass something that made sense thematically for the guild. Breeding Pool as a scene makes a lot of sense for them, since they're biologists, or Steam Vents thematically reminds me of engineering work. To put shocks into another set kind of ruins that lore. But the lore itself sort of sucks, the books were meh and they've since stopped them cause they got to a point where they were awful. At least the Ravnica books were decent, not like the Chandra/Gideon book, or the Tezzeret book, those two are just awful.

It is only in your mind that reprinting a Temple Garden in a non rav set would ruin the lore. A temple with a garden is generic and could take place in any setting. You imagine steam vents as being tied to izzet engineering but it could just as easily be a hotsprings with nearby volcanic activity or some such thing. Just because it has thus far been on Ravnica doesn't mean it needs to be. As opposed to something like Urborg or Academy Ruins which reference specific places.

Quote from rackham89

It is only in your mind that reprinting a Temple Garden in a non rav set would ruin the lore. A temple with a garden is generic and could take place in any setting. You imagine steam vents as being tied to izzet engineering but it could just as easily be a hotsprings with nearby volcanic activity or some such thing. Just because it has thus far been on Ravnica doesn't mean it needs to be. As opposed to something like Urborg or Academy Ruins which reference specific places.

I think it doesnt matter what could be.
Wizards didnt wanted to reprint them in a random set. They waited until we returned to Ravnica so Wizards probably also thinks that these are tied to Ravnica.

Shocks won't hit fetch prices unless the player base grows like it did from Zendikar to now. The problem with fetches is that there simply aren't very many of them given the size of the player base, and virtually every deck needs them. It's a perfect storm of suck.

Quote from Galerion

Quote from rackham89

It is only in your mind that reprinting a Temple Garden in a non rav set would ruin the lore. A temple with a garden is generic and could take place in any setting. You imagine steam vents as being tied to izzet engineering but it could just as easily be a hotsprings with nearby volcanic activity or some such thing. Just because it has thus far been on Ravnica doesn't mean it needs to be. As opposed to something like Urborg or Academy Ruins which reference specific places.

I think it doesnt matter what could be.
Wizards didnt wanted to reprint them in a random set. They waited until we returned to Ravnica so Wizards probably also thinks that these are tied to Ravnica.

If this is true, we have a wait for the reprinting of fetches because it is already known this fall is a new plane and not a revisit to Zendikar.

Quote from solisus »

Shocks won't hit fetch prices unless the player base grows like it did from Zendikar to now. The problem with fetches is that there simply aren't very many of them given the size of the player base, and virtually every deck needs them. It's a perfect storm of suck.

What price range are you talking about? No shocks wont get to a $100 price point, but easily will get back up to the $20-$40 price range.

All you have to do is look at the market cycles the past few years of cards played in Modern after Standard rotation.

Quote from Galerion

Quote from rackham89

It is only in your mind that reprinting a Temple Garden in a non rav set would ruin the lore. A temple with a garden is generic and could take place in any setting. You imagine steam vents as being tied to izzet engineering but it could just as easily be a hotsprings with nearby volcanic activity or some such thing. Just because it has thus far been on Ravnica doesn't mean it needs to be. As opposed to something like Urborg or Academy Ruins which reference specific places.

I think it doesnt matter what could be.
Wizards didnt wanted to reprint them in a random set. They waited until we returned to Ravnica so Wizards probably also thinks that these are tied to Ravnica.

They may choose to make that distinction or maybe they just knew they would return to ravnica and decided to print shocks there. That's not really evidence for the argument "shocks are Ravniva plane only". In and of itself a shock land is not tied to Ravnica in terms of flavor or details. Compare Overgrown Tomb vs Golgari Rot Farm. One is generic an one is specific.

To be clear I don't think we will see a shock reprint in a major set for some time. They're still in standard after all. Im just pointin out that there's really no basis for "shock are rav specific" other than people associate them with rav. If anyone can come up with the quote about deliberately not naming the shocks after Rav specific locations I'd like to see how official it was.

Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts on Mutavault. Will it still maintain it's $30 price tag after rotation or will it drop temporarily after rotation?

Quote from Celestial_Crusader

Just curious as to what everyone's thoughts on Mutavault. Will it still maintain it's $30 price tag after rotation or will it drop temporarily after rotation?

It should drop, it doesn't see enough Modern play like shocks do to keep the price tag. People opened enough of them I suspect.

I expect when Mutavault rotates out of standard that we'll hopefully see some deck brewing going on in modern! (:

Mutavault, like every other Modern staple in Standard right now will dip a tad before climbing again.

If there was enough Mutavaults opened to lower the price, we would have seen the price drop by now. Mutavault is a $40 card.

Quote from bocephus

Mutavault, like every other Modern staple in Standard right now will dip a tad before climbing again.

If there was enough Mutavaults opened to lower the price, we would have seen the price drop by now. Mutavault is a $40 card.

I'm pretty sure that's entirely due to standard. A larger percentage of the meta in standard use mutavault compared to modern.

A card's price is only determined by how much it is played. Mutavault sees play in 1 actual deck (Merfolk).

Quote from bocephus

Mutavault, like every other Modern staple in Standard right now will dip a tad before climbing again.

If there was enough Mutavaults opened to lower the price, we would have seen the price drop by now. Mutavault is a $40 card.

Mutavault isn't played much in Modern. Its price is like Thragtusk's was; based entirely on being played in almost every Standard deck.

fairies too, and could be slotted into anything tribal that shows up in the future. it is also the cheapest manland to activate, so heavy wrath/control lists also could potentially pick it up rather than the worldwake manlands.

when m14 first came out, merfolk wasn't doing much in modern AND was $10-14, AND m14 sucked, AND standard was still all three color decks--now all standard runs it and people are speccing on modern everything, and supply isn't holding up to demand, muta is expensive. before the reprint it was 25/30 mid on tcg, it'll probably rest at $18 finally.

I wonder in general with the uptick in modern popularity if there will be as much card rotation sell-offs going on in standard. A big pitch for modern is 'keep your [good] standard cards, play them in modern', I wonder if people will really sell off the vaults, ect. I was waiting for Liliana to rotate from standard and she didn't dip at all.

Quote from Valanarch

Quote from bocephus

Mutavault, like every other Modern staple in Standard right now will dip a tad before climbing again.

If there was enough Mutavaults opened to lower the price, we would have seen the price drop by now. Mutavault is a $40 card.

Mutavault isn't played much in Modern. Its price is like Thragtusk's was; based entirely on being played in almost every Standard deck.

Thragtusk is now $2.50 on TCG mid. I do hope Mutavault will drop, but I doubt it will drop that much lol.

Mutavault is expensive because of standard, nothing else. Once it rotates out it will go back to being $15-20

Quote from SPC

Mutavault is expensive because of standard, nothing else. Once it rotates out it will go back to being $15-20

Completely agree, the card's in 80% of the decks topping standard.

Quote from SPC

Mutavault is expensive because of standard, nothing else. Once it rotates out it will go back to being $15-20

Go back? It was $30+ before it was reprinted, and it went up after the reprint.

Everyone can hope it drops, if it does it wont be by much. I expect it to be $30-$50 after it rotates.

Quote from bocephus

Quote from SPC

Mutavault is expensive because of standard, nothing else. Once it rotates out it will go back to being $15-20

Go back? It was $30+ before it was reprinted, and it went up after the reprint.

Everyone can hope it drops, if it does it wont be by much. I expect it to be $30-$50 after it rotates.

It is playable in two tier 1.5-2 Modern decks. That isn't a lot. In contrast, it is played in almost every Standard deck. Why do you think that its price is because of Modern instead of being the biggest Standard staple in the format?